Michael Stuart Kelly Posted February 16, 2022 Share Posted February 16, 2022 1 minute ago, Peter said: They can. But should it? Peter, We have hit a wall of disagreement. The government does break the law. And it suffers consequences when it does, or at least when it doesn't manage to get away with it. But the government can never ever ever have a moral sanction, similar to what you are giving it, to break the law. I will not submit to a government like that unless a gun is pointed at me. And even then... Live free or die. Michael 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Michael Stuart Kelly Posted February 16, 2022 Share Posted February 16, 2022 4 minutes ago, Peter said: Agreed! Just do not commit violence and infringe on the rights of others. Peter, Ditto for the government. If you don't like the inconvenience of the truckers protesting illegal government activity, call the illegal government to send in their goons to protect you. I won't. Government is supposed to protect individual rights, not trample them and harm people. Michael 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Peter Posted February 16, 2022 Share Posted February 16, 2022 Michael wrote: “. . . call the illegal government to send in their goons to protect you. I won't. Government is supposed to protect individual rights, not trample them and harm people.” I someone lies to get on a plane and starts coughing and acting sick then “the authorities” making them get off the flight are not Nazi’s. They are protecting individual rights. Checking vax cards to cross the border is not putting . . . or keeping . . . anyone in a concentration camp. So, what’s changed recently? Not much. The truth is out there. From US Facts: Feb 06, 2022 · “At least 251,312,470 people or 76% of the population have received at least one dose. Overall, 213,061,117 people or 64% of the …” Eternal optimists and right wing conspiracy lovers are probably in that 24 percent NON vaccinated group. President Trump got the shot. He set a good example. I agree that the Vax is not totally proven or long lasting, but I have not gotten the Covid (or flu) bug and a HUGE percentage of the vaccinated have not gotten Covid-19 variations or gotten sick from the original vax. I recommend getting all shots recommended by the CDC or a State’s top doc. This disease has never been like the plague but it has killed people. Once again, I recommend getting it and any boosters OR new shots developed. Well, I always wait to see the reactions to the new shots but if shown to be effective I will get it. Protect yourself! Trust Yogi. It ain’t over until it’s over. Snicker. You “true believers” are in the 24 percent minority. Beevis. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tmj Posted February 16, 2022 Share Posted February 16, 2022 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Peter Posted February 16, 2022 Share Posted February 16, 2022 4 hours ago, tmj said: And in the restaurant scenario , whose 'side' would like the other patrons to be on ? Would you return to that restaurant with your grandchildren ? I suggest a stampede out of any Chinese restaurants without paying. Not. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Peter Posted February 16, 2022 Share Posted February 16, 2022 27 minutes ago, Michael Stuart Kelly said: I will not submit to a government like that unless a gun is pointed at me. And even then... When you obey the law, you are not submitting to the government. You are being "freely' governed based on the individual rights section of the constitution. If you disagree with a law, peacefully disagree. But I don't recommend going to an internet Ruby Ridge outpost to "feel safe and secure." Do not advocate violence when NO violence has been initiated against you. Laws are not generally an infringement but it can and will be taken up on the Supreme Court level. If you think this one vax is perilous then don't get it, protest, and accept the consequences. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Michael Stuart Kelly Posted February 16, 2022 Share Posted February 16, 2022 1 minute ago, Peter said: When you obey the law, you are not submitting to the government. You are being "freely' governed based on the individual rights section of the constitution. Peter, Sorry. This is right out of 1984. It's pure double speak. You can freely choose to submit to the government. But saying "freedom is submission"? Heh... War is peace, right? Michael 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Michael Stuart Kelly Posted February 16, 2022 Share Posted February 16, 2022 12 minutes ago, Peter said: Do not advocate violence when NO violence has been initiated against you. Peter, Changing my body permanently in a medical experiment that is sold to the public fraudulently is violence. The last time I looked, a human body is physical. An outside person cannot change it in a fundamental way by fraud without violence. Tricking someone to fall into a deep hole is an act of violence. Michael 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Michael Stuart Kelly Posted February 16, 2022 Share Posted February 16, 2022 31 minutes ago, Peter said: The truth is out there. Peter, It sure is. Did you look at the post I made here? After all, you called people all kinds of names over this. Here. I'll embed the post so you will not have to click on the link. You said nobody would tell you why they think the current jab is the devil's spawn (etc. etc. etc.). Well, here is some truth in much better terms than my simplified version said. 2 hours ago, Michael Stuart Kelly said: It's a looooooooooong list of studies and warnings from official health and science organizations from both the USA and from all over the world. If you have the time, go through it. ... (UPDATED) Exclusive Summary: Covid-19 Vaccine Concerns (UPDATED) Exclusive Summary: Covid-19 Vaccine Concerns | Sharyl Attkisson SHARYLATTKISSON.COM Michael 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Peter Posted February 16, 2022 Share Posted February 16, 2022 8 minutes ago, Michael Stuart Kelly said: Tricking someone to fall into a deep hole is an act of violence. Anarchy is acts of violence. Refusal to do as told, lawsuits, and peaceful protests are constitutional. No government official has grabbed and restrained anyone and shot them with "bugs." From Fox. U.S. Governors urge Canada to ease trucker mandate. Montana Governor says supply chain broken. Frightening to see what is happening against freedom in Canada. We need experienced truckers so come to the United States, says Montana Governor. end quotes Immediately protest and refuse. Get on the horn with local and state politicians. Violence is not suggested so here is the next “route.” ”Replying to what would keep the Constitution going until the year 2500, George H. Smith wrote: First, the 1936 Supreme Court decision "United States v. Butler" would need to be overturned. This is where Alexander Hamilton's broad interpretation of the "general welfare" clause was explicitly adopted, thereby gutting the enumerated powers doctrine advocated by Jefferson and other strict constructionists . . . The odds of this decision ever being overturned are virtually zilch. And George wrote: Second, the Supreme Court would need to wake up to the fact that we have a Ninth Amendment: "The enumeration in the Constitution, of certain rights, shall not be construed to deny or disparage others retained by the people." end quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Michael Stuart Kelly Posted February 16, 2022 Share Posted February 16, 2022 14 minutes ago, Peter said: No government official has grabbed and restrained anyone and shot them with "bugs." Peter, As I have said, you are misinformed. Until you look, I don't know how we can talk about this. btw - It looks like you are trying to make me out to be an ancap. I am not. As I said earlier, government is supposed to protect individual rights, not trample them and harm people. When a government protects individual rights: yay! When a government tramples individual rights and harms people: boo! Michael 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Peter Posted February 16, 2022 Share Posted February 16, 2022 One more and then I will step back from the podium. I wonder if George H. Smith is OK? Did he get the Covid shot? Of course, he would AGREE with the “mandatory” vaccinators. Joke. Say? Are youse guys going anarchist on us? What would Ayn Rand think of this dilemma? Peter George H. Smith author of the tongue in cheek title, “Atheism, Ayn Rand and other Heresies,” wrote: Ayn Rand defends a consent doctrine in several of her essays, but she never explains how this consent should manifest itself - whether, for example, it must be explicit or merely tacit (as Locke believed). Nor does she explain precisely which rights are delegated to government and how they are transferred. Therefore, although Rand appears to fall within the social contract tradition (at least in a general way), it is unclear where she would stand on the nature and method of political consent. I sincerely hope that some of her minarchist followers can shed some light on this problem.” And he continued with: “I agree with these critics. If we accept the premise that individuals (and only individuals) possess equal and reciprocal rights, and if we insist that these individuals must consent to be ruled by a government, and if we condemn as illegitimate all governments that rule without consent - then all governments, past and present, have been illegitimate. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Michael Stuart Kelly Posted February 16, 2022 Share Posted February 16, 2022 16 minutes ago, Peter said: One more and then I will step back from the podium. Peter, Are you stepping back to look at the information you asked for and have been provided? Michael 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ThatGuy Posted February 16, 2022 Share Posted February 16, 2022 1 hour ago, ThatGuy said: "DefiantL" was just suspended from Twitter. The crime: Posting leftist's words verbatim that showed their contradictions. We call that "over the target". Here's the last tweet, highlighting Trudeau's 2-faced support of ANTIFA/BLM vs. his crackdown on the convoys: Hah, I guess even Twitter knew they couldn't justify the ban... (Not to mention the "Streisand Effect" in play...) 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ThatGuy Posted February 16, 2022 Share Posted February 16, 2022 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Michael Stuart Kelly Posted February 16, 2022 Share Posted February 16, 2022 Back to the USA truck convoy that will be starting off in about a week. 5 hours ago, Michael Stuart Kelly said: A trucker convoy is going to happen from California to Washington DC. Here is a video interview with Leigh Dundas, one of the insiders of this convoy. AMERICAN TRUCKERS & ALLIES COMING TOGETHER FOR FREEDOM WITH LEIGH DUNDAS, MEL K & CHARLIE WARD WWW.BITCHUTE.COM Charlies new website www.charlieward.tv Charlies FREE Newsletter www.charlieward.tv Get the latest information on 5G at https://bit.ly/2GFQVvQ http://www.goldbusters.co.uk SPEAK... There are a few interesting highlights. 1. The truckers are being told to stay within the bounds of the law and there is a lot of trained people on board to make sure everybody knows what to do. Leigh said they were even entertaining not going into the city of Washington DC, since they all know what that's about, but I, for one, don't believe they will miss this opportunity to tweak the noses of the politicians. 2. Some false flag attempts are being made (just like they tried to do with the Canadian truckers), but Leigh said the truckers have on board several military-grade people who were trained in false-flag maneuvers during actual wars. These people are making sure no false-flag people infiltrate the convoy. And, as corroboration, I have seen reports already that false flag people are trying to get loads of guns snuck into the convoy. (Charlie mentioned one case with the Canadian truckers where someone delivered a load of bricks and the truckers took the bricks to some local businesses on route that were under construction and donated them. ) 3. Although the truckers are not as white collar in their learning, Leigh emphasized that they can smell a rat better than white collar people can. They have a brotherhood-like-code based on the reality of their gig. If someone is in the midst of nowhere, say in the desert, and his truck breaks down, this code demands that whoever passes by stop and help, even if they don't like the person they are helping. This could mean the difference between life and death. From that bond, the truckers have developed a kind of sixth sense about who is with them and who is against them. So this thing is going to happen right. But, to me, it also looks like this thing is going to blow sky-high in impact. I mean, does anyone really believe the left--probably Biden himself--is not going to overreact? Michael 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marc Posted February 16, 2022 Share Posted February 16, 2022 2 hours ago, tmj said: Omfg dfkm!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dglgmut Posted February 16, 2022 Share Posted February 16, 2022 16 hours ago, Peter said: Ayn Rand exits her New York apartment locking the door behind her. She walks towards the elevator where she sees a group of men with placards blocking the door. “Why are you blocking my way?” she asks. And the leader answers, “We were told by the apartment super that we need to pay our rent even though we have grievances about the way this building is run. So, we are stopping everyone from using the elevator or the stairs.” “But I have done you no harm,” says Miss Rand. “Doesn’t matter,” says the ringleader. “We are initiating force and coercion on you because of our grievances against the super and the landlord.” I agree with this. I support the truckers, but I always thought a strike (even a general strike, with many productive types) was more effective and harder to criticize. But still... they're far more correct than their opposition. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ThatGuy Posted February 16, 2022 Share Posted February 16, 2022 6 hours ago, ThatGuy said: History will tell, and "hindsight is 20/20", but it just may be that we are in a "cold" Civil War: That was in response to this: CSIS= The Canadian Security Intelligence Service"CSIS uses Antifa to Dox and Honeypot Freedom Convoy" https://www.hyphen-report.com/csis-uses-antifa-to-dox-and-honeypot-freedom-convoy/ Doxxed Freedom Convoy Donor Forced to Close Her Restaurant After Threats "Freedom Convoy donor Tammy Giuliani lost a lot more than $250 to the cause after getting doxxed by pro-Trudeau hackers. Her Ottawa restaurant, the popular Stella Luna Gelato Café, was forced to close on Tuesday following threats of violence." Doxxed Freedom Convoy Donor Forced to Close Her Restaurant After Threats PJMEDIA.COM Freedom Convoy donor Tammy Giuliani lost a lot more than $250 to the cause after getting doxxed by pro-Trudeau hackers. Her Ottawa... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
anthony Posted February 17, 2022 Share Posted February 17, 2022 11 hours ago, Marc said: I agree that we are not storming the beach but metaphorically it is the same thing, a world war. Not country v country but elite/globalists/ establishment v The People. Totally agreed on everything else you stated but victory is victory, anything short of total victory will be like taking amoxicillan for a sore throat and instead of doing the 10 day cycle you say after 5 days that your throat feels better and stop the meds. Classic rookie mistake. The (metaphorical) blows have been struck by the truckers: the right to your body against "public health" - as defined and enforced by Governments. The individual against the collectivists. Also as Jeffrey Tucker wrote today, the repressed Plebeian class rising against the (new) Patrician class. What is pleasing is how many vaccinated have come to the party alongside unvaxxed, showing a principled support for the rights of supposedly 'the enemy', whom most of the left like to portray as selfish anti-vaxxers. Objectivists would appreciate the principled thinking. The rest to be seen quite soon, coming elections in several countries are going to reflect people's outlook on how their semi-socialist Gvt's harshly handled them with mandated and blanket lockdowns and vaccinations, both of which were most destructive, not coincidentally, to the blue collar workers and small businessmen. The truckers helped focus global attention on those, Marc. Job done. I'm not much for symbolic gestures of public solidarity, but one could call this is a symbolic victory for the people. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Michael Stuart Kelly Posted February 17, 2022 Share Posted February 17, 2022 Just to be clear, I'm not mad at Peter nor am I mocking him. He's my friend. We even have a disagreement that I don't know how to bridge on this thread and that's OK. That's what discussion is for. I'm mostly trying to discourage the namecalling. I got a bellyful of low-level namecalling with the Jon Letendre episode, as I am sure most here did. I definitely do not want a repeat performance. It's like a weed that spoils the garden if you let it grow. (God knows I had to learn that one the hard way.) So before it gets anywhere near where it got with Jon, I'm pointing things back to ideas and sources and checking premises and things like that. I keep at it like a dog with a bone at times and that could be due to several things. But mostly, I still have a nasty taste in my mouth from the vulgar kindergarten prompted by one poster that I allowed to run. Maybe there's a surefire way to steer the passions in the right direction when things heat up, but I haven't found one yet. So, nowadays, I just do the best I can. Ideas rule. That's about the long and short of it. Michael 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marc Posted February 17, 2022 Share Posted February 17, 2022 3 hours ago, anthony said: The (metaphorical) blows have been struck by the truckers: the right to your body against "public health" - as defined and enforced by Governments. The individual against the collectivists. Also as Jeffrey Tucker wrote today, the repressed Plebeian class rising against the (new) Patrician class. What is pleasing is how many vaccinated have come to the party alongside unvaxxed, showing a principled support for the rights of supposedly 'the enemy', whom most of the left like to portray as selfish anti-vaxxers. Objectivists would appreciate the principled thinking. The rest to be seen quite soon, coming elections in several countries are going to reflect people's outlook on how their semi-socialist Gvt's harshly handled them with mandated and blanket lockdowns and vaccinations, both of which were most destructive, not coincidentally, to the blue collar workers and small businessmen. The truckers helped focus global attention on those, Marc. Job done. I'm not much for symbolic gestures of public solidarity, but one could call this is a symbolic victory for the people. I do not think that anyone is happy with symbolic gestures though. Even symbolic victories. The People are out for victory. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Strictlylogical Posted February 17, 2022 Share Posted February 17, 2022 I once said: On 5/17/2021 at 11:46 AM, Strictlylogical said: Watching a bunch of self-satisfied and self-hating meddling polite do-gooder tyrants with a case of "big-brother-US envy" enslave themselves into a backwater of insipid virtue-signaled mediocrity... is simultaneously absolutely beyond belief AND dull and tedious. and alas, I have to eat crow and take back my words. I take back by comment about it being "dull and tedious". 1 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marc Posted February 17, 2022 Share Posted February 17, 2022 1 minute ago, Strictlylogical said: I once said: and alas, I have to eat crow and take back my words. I take back by comments about dull and tedious. Eating crow is good occassionally! Marco Rubio helped me lots in that regard. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Michael Stuart Kelly Posted February 17, 2022 Share Posted February 17, 2022 Wow. I got this offline and it is nasty on target. If Ben Garrison is using Hitler, that means a lot more people than I imagined realize that the World Economic Forum (the Davos people) are the intellectual (and sometimes literal) progeny of Nazis and Nazism. Trudeau was trained by those people from childhood. He was formally a Young Global Leader (the modern cleaned-up version of the Hitler Youth). The Great Reset is Nazism dressed up for diversity (but still eugenics at root--the time the master race is the technocratic elitist class). I'm glad people are seeing this. And of course, Castro has a little something to do with Trudeau's life. Michael 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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