Ukraine and Endless War for Profit

[Michael Stuart Kelly]

1 hour ago, Ellen Stuttle said:

PS: Michael, I think you meant Draghi in the above post.  I don’t find anything about Mattarella resigning.

Ellen,

Yup.

Thanks for the correction.

I changed my post above.

Michael

[william.scherk]

On 5/17/2022 at 7:02 PM, Michael Stuart Kelly said:

[G]otta do better than snobbish dismissal and silly aspersions about those who take them seriously if the idea is to convince anyone. May I suggest ideas?)

Open-source intelligence. OSINT. A little bit of OCD and a focus on identifying armaments. That's how Eliot Higgins got started as "Brown Moses."

In the most famous Bellingcat investigation, "Who shot down MH17?" Bellingcat made a very strong case.

Your friendly neighbourhood pro-am war crimes investigator club. 

On 5/17/2022 at 7:02 PM, Michael Stuart Kelly said:

But the Pentagon does fund Bellingcat. And Bellingcat sings well for its supper.

How much does the Pentagon fund Bellingcat? What are good sources that we can count on?

On 5/17/2022 at 7:02 PM, Michael Stuart Kelly said:

Some people are destined to slop in the troughs of the war machine and others don't like innocent deaths with their money.

I know which side I am on. And it's not with the hogs.

It's a choice.

Thinking fast, thinking slow ...

 

Edited July 24, 2022 by william.scherk
Avoiding jail time, again. "Obviously busted." Up there with "Everybody knows" ...

[Michael Stuart Kelly]

4 hours ago, william.scherk said:

How much does the Pentagon fund Bellingcat?

William,

This is silly. How much does the Pentagon or CIA or any Deep State organ fund any of its cutouts?

I bet you would have been asking the same kind of BS about Fusion GPS and the Clinton people over the Russian hoax.

pssst... They don't advertise their covert shit.

But for you and the sake of these discussions, let's just say that Bellingcat is the greatest source in the world, has no covert entanglements and should be the US government's No. 1 contractor for information for the intelligence community. Because it's open source. OK?

I've got other things to do...

Michael

[Michael Stuart Kelly]

But here.

Just from a simple Start Page search. Not even a Google search.

Bellingcat funded by U.S. and UK intelligence contractors that aided extremists in Syria | MR Online

MRONLINE.ORG

---

Supposedly “independent” website Bellingcat raked in money from scandal-ridden Western intelligence firms that wreaked havoc – and reaped massive profits – in Syria.

That's one search that took me 8 seconds to do.

I'm not up for silly propaganda crap, William...

Agree or disagree, but feign being ingenious about this stuff is bullshit.

Michael

[william.scherk]

Who shot down MH17?  How has Ukraine coddled its neo-Nazis?

Has Bellingcat hired its new Senior Fundraiser?

 

17 hours ago, Michael Stuart Kelly said:

22 hours ago, william.scherk said:

In the most famous Bellingcat investigation, "Who shot down MH17?" Bellingcat made a very strong case.

On 5/17/2022 at 7:02 PM, Michael Stuart Kelly said:

But the Pentagon does fund Bellingcat. And Bellingcat sings well for its supper.

How much does the Pentagon fund Bellingcat?

This is silly. How much does the Pentagon or CIA or any Deep State organ fund any of its cutouts?

A claim was made, a question was asked seeking more details.

I can re-ask, though: "Was the Pentagon funding a lump sum, a contract for services, a grant, a targeted bit of funding under a particular program?"

Better, perhaps: "What percentage of Bellingcat's funding comes from donations, what comes from the Pentagon, by your rough estimate?"

17 hours ago, Michael Stuart Kelly said:

I bet you would have been asking the same kind of BS about Fusion GPS and the Clinton people over the Russian hoax.

 

Murky.  Irrelevant to giving more details about your impressions or opinion.

17 hours ago, Michael Stuart Kelly said:

But for you and the sake of these discussions, let's just say that Bellingcat is the greatest source in the world, has no covert entanglements and should be the US government's No. 1 contractor for information for the intelligence community.

This is silly -- or rather, "Bellingcat is the greatest source in the world" is a caricature, an example of black and white thinking. 

Bellingcat is what it does. In their own words ...

Quote

Bellingcat is an independent collective of international researchers, investigators and citizen journalists using open source and social media investigations to probe conflict, corruption, crimes, misinformation, disinformation, extremist groups and much, much more. We have received multiple awards for our research and publications that shine a light on wrongdoing. Our community (which includes staff, contributors and volunteers around the world) works in a unique field where technology, forensic research, journalism and the advancement of justice and accountability come together. Do you want to join this exciting adventure?

I do reject a false dichotomy or false dilemma. In the sense that Outfit X has received funding from Source Y and thus must be utterly beholden to a murky blob Z and that blob's motivations become the motivations (or instructions) for Outfit X.

17 hours ago, Michael Stuart Kelly said:

Because it's open source. OK?

Open source intelligence is not a magic wand, no.  It usually means that a variety of folks can work on the same discrete mystery:  from "what is this weapon?" to "can we track the movements of this Buk missile launcher?"

The vetting, cross-checking, rejecting, corroborating is part of the work of answering particular questions. As the density of events grows, so does the complexity of a given research question or bent.

The best thing about open source intelligence gathering and analysis is that it is done up front, not at a back desk in Langley, VA.

22 hours ago, william.scherk said:

What are good sources that we can count on? [to outline malign/evul/suspect funding sources such as the amount and strings-attached to Pentagon funding]

Partial response ...

18 hours ago, Michael Stuart Kelly said:

Just from a simple Start Page search. Not even a Google search.

Bellingcat funded by U.S. and UK intelligence contractors that aided extremists in Syria | MR Online

MRONLINE.ORG

---

Supposedly “independent” website Bellingcat raked in money from scandal-ridden Western intelligence firms that wreaked havoc – and reaped massive profits – in Syria.

That's one search that took me 8 seconds to do.

Sometimes asking someone for "warrants" for a given claim is seen as an illicit discussion gambit or felt as needlessly provocative.

Let's analyze the Kit Klarenberg story republished by mronline.org at the Grayzone. 

[Michael Stuart Kelly]

William,

I don't know why you luvs you some covert propaganda Deep State cutouts and front groups like Bellingcat, but them's your jollies. Not mine. I'm not going to discuss whether they are valid or not.

There are just too many other things available to take up my time.

Right now, to me, Bellingcat is a shady outfit. I don't want to look at their stuff. My default position in evaluating any information from them is that there is a propagandistic agenda driving it. Frankly, I don't even want to talk about them.

They are garbage.

But who knows? Maybe over time I will be proven wrong just like people on your side of the divide have been proven wrong about Alex Jones after decades of disparaging him as a kook and conspiracy theorist without any validity.

Imagine if that happened to me. The shame. the humiliation I will feel. The need to apologize. The depression. The wondering if my mental processes are working correctly. 

Just like what is happening with you guys about Alex Jones, right?

Heh... Maybe if hell freezes over. 

 

 

So I'm willing to risk it.

In short, I've got lots and lots and lots of better things to do than bicker over the validity of a crappy propaganda outfit that promotes the predator class. 

 

But here's something I might keep an eye on about Bellingcat. The Deep State is going down with the new MAGA administration. Let's see if Bellingcat remains relevant. That's something people can actually observe in public as it happens instead of arguing over backroom deals and covert operations.

If Bellingcat remains relevant, I might take another look at it (if I have time to piss away). If it greatly diminishes or dies off, that tells me they are no longer paying their expensive staff, meaning the money dried up. So my view of them will be validated in an indirect manner.

That's about all I've got for Bellingcat and all I ever will have.

Michael

[Peter]

5 hours ago, Michael Stuart Kelly said:

The Deep State is going down with the new MAGA administration.

I'm waiting . . .! When is it going to happen? A lampooned and parodied Donald Trump is 100 percent better than anybody else out there. We were freer, safer, and better off under (or above, joke) Donald John Trump. Bring him back! I may start contributed to him again after the 2022 elections. 

[Michael Stuart Kelly]

45 minutes ago, Peter said:

I'm waiting . . .! When is it going to happen?

Peter,

I can only project one timeline based on a legal presumption. Lets presume all will go on as if the 2020 election were legitimate and there will be no legal challenges that will make any difference.

Under that scenario, after the midterms, after the establishment sees the size of the elected tidal wave coming at them, I expect to see a large number of rats jumping the ship--resignations and so on. I also expect to see some people singing like canaries about what really went on. That is, I should say I expect it to happen, but I don't expect to see it since this will happen behind closed doors and only come out in court much, much later.

Then, in January, 2023, after the newly election people are sworn in, Biden's administration will be a toothless wonder. He will have both houses of Congress against him. That's when I expect to see real Deep State people starting to resign, some even moving out of the country.

I don't know what all will happen with a predominantly MAGA Congress, but if they have enough clout to override Biden vetoes, they will start to put in laws about election integrity, overhauling the FBI, and so on. They will also start running committees in Congress to investigate the current investigators and the people doing malfeasance in Biden's administration.

After Trump wins in 2024 and takes office in 2025, with Congress reinforced by even more MAGA members, I can even see few Constitutional Amendments happening that will limit the possibility of damage like the current ruling class did. I imagine it will go under some kind of heading about banning an "administrative state." After an overhaul of the FBI, CIA, DHS and more alphabet soup intelligence and law enforcement agencies, I expect to see some dismantled and consolidated with others, and I expect real investigations to happen, both new and correction of ones that have been stalled up to now (Hillary Clinton's private server and things like that).

I don't think this process will eliminate the Deep State entirely, but I do expect it to be crippled in terms of its current covert power.

 

There is another possibility always in the wings. Before the 2024 election, one state--through the state legislature--recalls its 2020 electoral college electors due to fraud. After one state does it, can we say the word domino? It will be one state after another after that.

And then we will have a full blown Constitutional crisis since Joe Biden will officially be an illegitimate president, or at least one who was elected by crime. I don't know what will happen in such a situation, but I don't see Biden staying in office, nor the Democrats keeping the executive if he leaves.

But I also don't see Trump being automatically sworn in. Just to speculate, I imagine a new election can be called, possibly in the House as per normal procedure codified in law that Mike Pence refused to consider in January 2020.

 

In any event, I see the Deep State in panic right now. After November, their demise will start for real. I also don't expect them to go down without a fight, so I expect to see assassination attempts and things like that. The American people are so against them at this moment, though, that even should they kill Trump or something equally bombastic, I don't see them staying in power. Frankly, I don't think they will be able to pull off anything major. Everybody and their cousins are now watching and looking for precisely this.

Once they are singing against each other to get lighter sentences, the Big Crumble will be awesome to behold.

 

Michael

[Michael Stuart Kelly]

They just keep throwing it in your face.

 

Your job is to keep paying for that shit just because.

The predator class's job is to keep living it up...

Michael

[Michael Stuart Kelly]

Opps.

Did I do the wrong image?

Here. Maybe I found the right one...

 

At least now I understand the billions of Benjamins going over there...

 

Michael

[Marc]

On 7/26/2022 at 2:44 AM, Michael Stuart Kelly said:

Peter,

I can only project one timeline based on a legal presumption. Lets presume all will go on as if the 2020 election were legitimate and there will be no legal challenges that will make any difference.

Under that scenario, after the midterms, after the establishment sees the size of the elected tidal wave coming at them, I expect to see a large number of rats jumping the ship--resignations and so on. I also expect to see some people singing like canaries about what really went on. That is, I should say I expect it to happen, but I don't expect to see it since this will happen behind closed doors and only come out in court much, much later.

Then, in January, 2023, after the newly election people are sworn in, Biden's administration will be a toothless wonder. He will have both houses of Congress against him. That's when I expect to see real Deep State people starting to resign, some even moving out of the country.

I don't know what all will happen with a predominantly MAGA Congress, but if they have enough clout to override Biden vetoes, they will start to put in laws about election integrity, overhauling the FBI, and so on. They will also start running committees in Congress to investigate the current investigators and the people doing malfeasance in Biden's administration.

After Trump wins in 2024 and takes office in 2025, with Congress reinforced by even more MAGA members, I can even see few Constitutional Amendments happening that will limit the possibility of damage like the current ruling class did. I imagine it will go under some kind of heading about banning an "administrative state." After an overhaul of the FBI, CIA, DHS and more alphabet soup intelligence and law enforcement agencies, I expect to see some dismantled and consolidated with others, and I expect real investigations to happen, both new and correction of ones that have been stalled up to now (Hillary Clinton's private server and things like that).

I don't think this process will eliminate the Deep State entirely, but I do expect it to be crippled in terms of its current covert power.

 

There is another possibility always in the wings. Before the 2024 election, one state--through the state legislature--recalls its 2020 electoral college electors due to fraud. After one state does it, can we say the word domino? It will be one state after another after that.

And then we will have a full blown Constitutional crisis since Joe Biden will officially be an illegitimate president, or at least one who was elected by crime. I don't know what will happen in such a situation, but I don't see Biden staying in office, nor the Democrats keeping the executive if he leaves.

But I also don't see Trump being automatically sworn in. Just to speculate, I imagine a new election can be called, possibly in the House as per normal procedure codified in law that Mike Pence refused to consider in January 2020.

 

In any event, I see the Deep State in panic right now. After November, their demise will start for real. I also don't expect them to go down without a fight, so I expect to see assassination attempts and things like that. The American people are so against them at this moment, though, that even should they kill Trump or something equally bombastic, I don't see them staying in power. Frankly, I don't think they will be able to pull off anything major. Everybody and their cousins are now watching and looking for precisely this.

Once they are singing against each other to get lighter sentences, the Big Crumble will be awesome to behold.

 

Michael

Brick by brick the Berlin Wall 2.0 is falling.

God Bless President Trump!

[ThatGuy]

 

 

[Peter]

Well, she didn't get shot down. Nanny Pelosi landed in Taiwan. She is SO relevant! Now let's see her make it back alive, maybe with a stop in Hawaii to pick up some leis.   

[Michael Stuart Kelly]

58 minutes ago, Peter said:

Nanny Pelosi landed in Taiwan.

Peter,

She knows she will lose power soon, so this is only about one thing. Insider trading and crony deals re semiconductor and digital chip companies. Especially those that are opening or reopening USA plants.

Michael

[tmj]

The Speaker of the House of the US can go anywhere in the world with the full protection of the full weight of the US govt , just not sure that should involve anywhere but DC and where their constituencies are( perhaps that explains this trip ), no one outside of the US should be seen as having any bearing on where or when The Speaker comes or goes. 

Only Trump can tell the Nance no flights today

[anthony]

Done more than enough? Time to leave European partners to fend for themselves?

 

Marjorie Taylor Greene urges U.S. to leave NATO to avoid war with Russia

WWW.NEWSWEEK.COM

---

Russian officials have also said that U.S.'s decision to expand in Europe will not restrain or intimidate the country as tensions remain high.

 

[Michael Stuart Kelly]

Tony,

NATO is a Deep State grift favoring arms manufacturers.

Lot's of blah blah blah, but that's about all it does.

What's more, the grift money is laundered through Ukraine.

Hopefully it is time for the US to leave NATO. 

Michael

[william.scherk]

On 7/25/2022 at 10:39 AM, william.scherk said:

Open source intelligence is not a magic wand, no.  It usually means that a variety of folks can work on the same discrete mystery:  from "what is this weapon?" to "can we track the movements of this Buk missile launcher?"

Cutting through the fog of war?

 

 

 

Open source intelligence has ethics?

 

Tracking the Faceless Killers who Mutilated and Executed a Ukrainian POW - bellingcat

WWW.BELLINGCAT.COM

---

In a series of gruesome videos, a man wearing a cowboy hat mutilates a Ukrainian prisoner of war before murdering him. Open source evidence suggests the involvement of a Chechen-led paramilitary group.

 

[anthony]

2 hours ago, Michael Stuart Kelly said:

Tony,

NATO is a Deep State grift favoring arms manufacturers.

Lot's of blah blah blah, but that's about all it does.

What's more, the grift money is laundered through Ukraine.

Hopefully it is time for the US to leave NATO. 

Michael

"In the councils of government, we must guard against the acquisition of unwarranted influence, whether sought or unsought, by the military industrial complex. The potential for the disastrous rise of misplaced power exists and will persist. We must never let the weight of this combination endanger our liberties or democratic processes. We should take nothing for granted. Only an alert and knowledgeable citizenry can compel the proper meshing of the huge industrial and military machinery of defense with our peaceful methods and goals, so that security and liberty may prosper together".
-Dwight D. Eisenhower, 1961

Yup.

[ThatGuy]

1 hour ago, anthony said:

"In the councils of government, we must guard against the acquisition of unwarranted influence, whether sought or unsought, by the military industrial complex. The potential for the disastrous rise of misplaced power exists and will persist. We must never let the weight of this combination endanger our liberties or democratic processes. We should take nothing for granted. Only an alert and knowledgeable citizenry can compel the proper meshing of the huge industrial and military machinery of defense with our peaceful methods and goals, so that security and liberty may prosper together".
-Dwight D. Eisenhower, 1961

Yup.

History is showing that Rand missed the bus on this one...

"There is a special reason why you, the future leaders of the United States Army, need to be philosophically armed today. You are the target of a special attack by the Kantian-Hegelian-collectivist establishment that dominates our cultural institutions at present. You are the army of the last semi-free country left on earth, yet you are accused of being a tool of imperialism—and 'imperialism' is the name given to the foreign policy of this country, which has never engaged in military conquest and has never profited from the two world wars, which she did not initiate, but entered and won. (It was, incidentally, a foolishly overgenerous policy, which made this country waste her wealth on helping both her allies and her former enemies.) Something called 'the military-industrial complex'—which is a myth or worse—is being blamed for all of this country’s troubles."

From “Philosophy: Who Needs It”, 1974 (An address given to the graduating class of the United States Military Academy at West Point on March 6, 1974.)

 

[Michael Stuart Kelly]

The problem with understanding evil like Bellingcat is that there has to be some truth involved in order for it to mask the evil.

There is a reason Satan has been called the Great Tempter from the beginning of recorded history. There is a reason super-addictive drugs like crack cocaine give such a wonderful high in the beginning. There is a reason artery-clogging blubber-making food and drink taste so good. There is a reason cults start new members with love-bombs. I could go on, but this pattern is a fractal in mankind.

It's a sugar-coated brownie with cyanide inside.

You don't coat evil with evil. You coat it with something seductive. In the case of an evil outfit like Bellingcat (a toady mouthpiece for the predator class), part of the seduction is "open source investigation." That seduces people who like collectivist thinking and believe they are above faith. Imagine the collective doing what the individual cannot and only dealing in facts at that. And on and on and on...

Of course, when you see what Bellingcat is really selling in the end, it boils down to the endless war for profit machine. Death and mutilation of innocent people (including women, children, the elderly and the infirm) so the predator class can have more money, more power, and feel superior to the rest of mankind. 

Sweet poison. 

For those who are addicted, I see you. I empathize. But I can't take your poison with you. I don't even find the sweet part sweet anymore. Been there. Done that.

But I survived.

I hope you do, too.

 

As an aside, I like that this is on OL so that readers can see these patterns in real life examples, not just imaginary ones, and not just as theory. Recognizing evil that has been goosed up to look yummy, recognizing that pattern, becomes part of what Rand calls "Intellectual ammunition."

Michael

[Michael Stuart Kelly]

52 minutes ago, ThatGuy said:

History is showing that Rand missed the bus on this one...

TG,

Definitely not her best moment.

On the scale with all the good she did, I can look past this. I can't agree with her, but I don't think her opinion about the military-industrial complex invalidates the things she got right.

In propaganda, though, that's what people will try to do.

For those who have had their worldviews informed by Rand (like me), that makes her sporadic errors, bullheadedness and cantankerousness a thorny path to navigate. The only way I have found is to call attention to her good close to when calling attention to her lapses.

Short-term, it doesn't do anything for those who want to crow about Rand being wrong, or those who think people are Rand's enemies for seeing the lapse, but middle-to-long-term range, I believe this will make a difference.

The issue is the ideas, not whether Rand was right or wrong. It will be a good day for O-Land when Rand-worship is no longer a thing. 

Or hell, them human suckers never act right. It's like herding cats. Rand-worship might still be with us when the sun burns out.

 

Michael

[Michael Stuart Kelly]

For those who still think Ukraine needs American blood and treasure to defend it against the Big Bad Putin, look at this:

Zelenskiy seeking 'direct talks' with China's Xi to help end Ukraine war- SCMP

Zelenskiy seeking 'direct talks' with China's Xi to help end Ukraine war- SCMP

WWW.REUTERS.COM

---

Ukraine is seeking an opportunity to speak "directly" with Chinese leader Xi Jinping to help end its war with Russia, President Volodymyr Zelensky said, the South China Morning Post reported on Thursday.

 

How does it feel to send $50 billion plus of US taxpayer-funded money and have young Americans killed to defend Xi Jinping's plans for CCP expansion? Or to pad Zelensky's offshore bank accounts (along with those of Ukrainian oligarchs and corrupt American cronies)?

The press may try to make light of this until they blank out these facts, but I intend to keep these facts--ones anybody can see--center and highlighted every time I discuss this issue.

This is what happens when the US chooses one gangster (Zelensky) over another (Putin) and goes all in.

That gangster (Zelensky) will go to fight against the US beside a bigger gangster (Xi Jinping) once it looks like US grift money is running out.

That's also what happens when facts get blanked out--facts like Ukraine is one of the top money-laundering places in the entire world.

Trump can clean this up, he has the talent stack and he will have to. But what a pain in the ass it will be to do a proper clean up of Biden & Co.'s Deep State open theft supported by propaganda...

Michael

[anthony]

On 8/6/2022 at 6:19 AM, Michael Stuart Kelly said:

For those who still think Ukraine needs American blood and treasure to defend it against the Big Bad Putin, look at this:

 

I need someone to explain again, how and why Zelensky that glorified little leech, had the right to demand ¬anything¬ from the West? And still demand more, presently, when the blow-back from sanctions is hurting western and other economies .

Who established that Ukraine deserved any more than some humanitarian aid, for a man-made disaster which was - in part - Kyiv's own doing, they who played their part with NATO in its military planning?

Absent the West's boosting of Ukraine and worship of Zelensky, he'd have had no alternative at the start (even pre-invasion) but negotiations and to make concessions. Which he will soon, after an unnecessarily prolonged conflict, after his people paid a much bigger cost and greater territory loss, we shall see in likelihood. 

The war-mongers wanted Russia to be humiliated, isolated and taught a lesson (and 'a message' sent to China I'm quite sure). For Russia, its not excessive demands for "security guarantees" were ridiculed and ignored. The consequences are in plain sight.

[Marc]

14 minutes ago, anthony said:

I need someone to explain again, how and why Zelensky that glorified little leech, had the right to demand ¬anything¬ from the West? And still demand more, presently, when the blow-back from sanctions is hurting western and other economies .

Who established that Ukraine deserved any more than some humanitarian aid, for a man-made disaster which was - in part - Kyiv's own doing, they who played their part with NATO in its military planning?

Absent the West's boosting of Ukraine and worship of Zelensky, he'd have had no alternative at the start (even pre-invasion) but negotiations and to make concessions. Which he will soon, after his people paid a much bigger cost and greater territory loss, we shall see in likelihood. 

The war-mongers wanted Russia to be humiliated, isolated and taught a lesson (and 'a message' sent to China). For Russia, its not excessive demands for "security guarantees" were ridiculed and ignored. The consequences are in plain sight.

Because he owns them.

Follow the money.