anthony Posted June 18, 2022 Share Posted June 18, 2022 On 6/18/2022 at 7:04 AM, Peter said: As so many have sorta expressed, insinuated, here on OL, Russia is so wonderful! They should invade and dominate the whole world! And those “so many” have expressed yadda yadda yadda for their side. Don’t you objectivists get it? Ayn Rand would obviously approve of Russia dominating the world by FORCE, as she so frequently expressed in her novels . . . Ayn Rand might have decried the use of force by a government against its own citizens seeking self-determination and security in a region (after they had been repressed in certain ways and been undemocratically denied an election and a president via a coup d'etat). Ayn Rand might have decried the fraudulent breaking of contracts (verbally, by Nato) and by the Ukraine Government. A negotiated contract to grant autonomy to said breakaway regions, that was a fake and deceit by Kyiv from the start, as we now know from the ex-president, but was entered into in good faith by the rebels and Putin (as far as can be surmised). And she would no doubt be aware that "Russia"- today - was not the "Communist Russia" she knew, "dominating" some of the world with an ideology: Autocratic, clearly, but it has long since renounced communism. By FORCE alone, without that ideology, Russia hasn't a snowball's chance of world dominance and they know it, if even they desired it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Peter Posted June 18, 2022 Share Posted June 18, 2022 Anthony wrote: All that was not clarified by the western countries in their zeal (for Ukraine) to beat/weaken Russia and humiliate Putin. This war was avoidable, if contracts and treaties were kept to. The fiction of Putin's "imperialism", Russia's supposed expansionist aggression into Europe(!) following the fantasy of its successful "defeat and occupation of Ukraine" - simply the excuse by war mongers to get at Russia. end quote Your hypothesis is that The West made Putin invade Ukraine and Russia’s initiation of force would NOT have been initiated if the West had been nice about Russian threats to expand? In a sense, Ukraine invaded Russia? Ukraine and The West initiated force causing Putin to retaliate by invading Ukraine and threatening to invade two other countries that Putin is afraid will harm Russia because they said they wish they had the protection of being a NATO member? By that reasoning Poland and other NATO members should resign so that Vlad the Impaler stops the initiation of force? Nobody can humiliate Vlad the Impaler and get away with it so we ALL should apologize? Russian Imperialism is a fiction and not actually occurring. Weird. Doesn’t a country’s people have free will, and shouldn’t they decide their own fate? Isn’t the initiation of force an evil? Isn’t the excuse “he made me do it,” a lame child’s excuse? Why do countries join NATO? Who are they fearful of? Why don’t they have the right to join NATO? Is it time for stores to get rid of their burglar alarms and for cops to stop patrolling and looking for suspicious characters? 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Peter Posted June 18, 2022 Share Posted June 18, 2022 Anthony wrote: And she would no doubt be aware that "Russia"- today - was not the "Communist Russia" she knew, "dominating" some of the world with an ideology: Autocratic, clearly, but it has long since renounced communism. By FORCE alone, without that ideology, Russia hasn't a snowball's chance and they know it, if even they desired it. I have asked this before, and the world knows the answers. Would Ayn Rand condemn this invasion? What should the countries around Russia do? Who or what are countries that want to join NATO, worried about? Has Russia proven them right? Does Russia continue to pose a threat to freedom and prosperity even without being a communist country? Does NATO infringe on Russia’s “perceived right” to invade its neighbors and therefor NATO is in the wrong? Should Countries and their people have free will? Is Russia a belligerent, rogue country? Does Russia have the right to initiate force? Old Net News. The prime ministers of Sweden and Finland said at a press conference Wednesday they’re strongly considering joining NATO in response to Russia’s invasion of Ukraine—a move that would ensure alliance members would come to their defense should Russia invade, but that Moscow has warned would lead to retaliation. From Forbes: Finland and Sweden, which neighbor each other, maintained neutrality toward the Soviet Union through the Cold War, which sparked NATO’s formation, but are considering joining the alliance now in light of Russia’s invasion, which has provoked fears that Moscow could invade Nordic countries next (Norway, another nearby Nordic country, is already a NATO member). From CNBC: Speaking at a plenary session at the St. Petersburg International Economic Forum, Putin accused the West of colonial arrogance and said that Moscow’s so-called “special military operation” — which has thrown Ukraine into all-out warfare and led to the deaths of thousands — was down to the West’s refusal to respect its obligations. “The decision to launch our special military operation was something that we were forced to do, they forced our hand,” he said, adding that the decision had been “difficult” but reaffirmed the Kremlin’s commitment to achieving its military goal. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
anthony Posted June 18, 2022 Share Posted June 18, 2022 8 hours ago, Peter said: Anthony wrote: All that was not clarified by the western countries in their zeal (for Ukraine) to beat/weaken Russia and humiliate Putin. This war was avoidable, if contracts and treaties were kept to. The fiction of Putin's "imperialism", Russia's supposed expansionist aggression into Europe(!) following the fantasy of its successful "defeat and occupation of Ukraine" - simply the excuse by war mongers to get at Russia. end quote Your hypothesis is that The West made Putin invade Ukraine and Russia’s initiation of force would NOT have been initiated if the West had been nice about Russian threats to expand? In a sense, Ukraine invaded Russia? Ukraine and The West initiated force causing Putin to retaliate by invading Ukraine and threatening to invade two other countries that Putin is afraid will harm Russia because they said they wish they had the protection of being a NATO member? By that reasoning Poland and other NATO members should resign so that Vlad the Impaler stops the initiation of force? Nobody can humiliate Vlad the Impaler and get away with it so we ALL should apologize? Russian Imperialism is a fiction and not actually occurring. Weird. Doesn’t a country’s people have free will, and shouldn’t they decide their own fate? Isn’t the initiation of force an evil? Isn’t the excuse “he made me do it,” a lame child’s excuse? Why do countries join NATO? Who are they fearful of? Why don’t they have the right to join NATO? Is it time for stores to get rid of their burglar alarms and for cops to stop patrolling and looking for suspicious characters? Force, first used against Russian-Ukraine citizens by their Govt. Is this not initiation of force? You've not answered to that, or doesn't it count? False promises, fraudulent treaties, false pretenses. By Nato and by Kyiv (which Poroshenko gloated about). Objectivists are uniquely-placed to recognize fraud as the indirect use of force. "A unilateral breach of contract" is serious, no less when it is critical to a nation's security and forward-planning. ARL: Fraud "A unilateral breach of contract involves an indirect use of physical force: it consists, in essence, of one man receiving the material values, goods or services of another, then refusing to pay for them and thus keeping them by force (by mere physical possession), not by right—i.e., keeping them without the consent of their owner. Fraud involves a similarly indirect use of force: it consists of obtaining material values without their owner’s consent, under false pretenses or false promises". 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
anthony Posted June 18, 2022 Share Posted June 18, 2022 6 hours ago, Peter said: Who or what are countries that want to join NATO, worried about? Has Russia proven them right? Does Russia continue to pose a threat to freedom and prosperity even without being a communist country? Does NATO infringe on Russia’s “perceived right” to invade its neighbors and therefor NATO is in the wrong? Should Countries and their people have free will? Is Russia a belligerent, rogue country? Does Russia have the right to initiate force? Very happily, for Nato, Russia "has proven them right". Nato was fully aware, weren't they, that Ukraine was Russia's and Putin's "line in the sand". 'So far, with this unnecessary, irrational Nato-expansionism, (against "the USSR", which exists no longer) we have put up with ... no further'. But Nato cleverly premeditated and possibly manipulated an 'obviously' unjustified invasion (obvious, to those who've little interest in the antecedents and conditions in Ukraine). And were proven right. But Putin's suspicions and paranoia about Nato's long term objectives to isolate and weaken Russia were ALSO proven right. But Russia is the aggressor! Everybody, hide behind Nato! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
anthony Posted June 18, 2022 Share Posted June 18, 2022 What does not occur to anyone, is that it might well have been in Putin's mind, an essential *self-defense* of Russia (and of Russian-Ukrainians). Pre-emptive self-defense, which any self-respecting country would use. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
anthony Posted June 18, 2022 Share Posted June 18, 2022 4 hours ago, Peter said: if the West had been nice about Russian threats to expand? In a sense, Ukraine invaded Russia? Ukraine and The West initiated force causing Putin to retaliate by invading Ukraine and threatening to invade two other countries that Putin is afraid will harm Russia because they said they wish they had the Russia's threats to expand - where? Threatening to invade two other countries - which? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ellen Stuttle Posted June 19, 2022 Share Posted June 19, 2022 2 hours ago, anthony said: What does not occur to anyone, is that it might well have been in Putin's mind, an essential *self-defense* of Russia (and of Russian-Ukrainians). Pre-emptive self-defense, which any self-respecting country would use. That has occurred to me, in keeping with your suggestion of premeditation and possible manipulation on NATO’s part. 2 hours ago, anthony said: But Nato cleverly premeditated and possibly manipulated an 'obviously' unjustified invasion (to those who've little interest in the antecedents and conditions in Ukraine). I suspect "Great Reset" planning. Consider what's happening as net result. Ukraine being considered as an EU member - i.e., welcome to the fold. Lots of money going to the sort of nefarious stuff Ukraine's a hotbed for. Some US weaponry thrown in. The only thing which makes me hesitant about my suspicions is the way George Soros reacted to the news of Russia's incursion. With panic, sure seemed like. But if there was a "Great Reset" effort to manipulate Putin, presumably Soros would have been privy to the plan. So was his apparent panic an act? Maybe all the better to increase the amount of assistance money from the U.S.? Ellen Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ellen Stuttle Posted June 19, 2022 Share Posted June 19, 2022 Oh, hell. I just saw this upon looking at today's Gateway Pundit items: BREAKING: Did Lithuania Light the Fuse on World War III? WWW.THEGATEWAYPUNDIT.COM In a move of staggering stupidity and hubris, Lithuanian banned the transit of Russian goods to Kaliningrad effective today, June 18, 2022. Kaliningrad, which is wedged between Poland on the west and... Ellen Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Peter Posted June 19, 2022 Share Posted June 19, 2022 Vladimir Putin has threatened Sweden and Finland with ' military and political consequences' if they join NATO. Maria Zakharova, Russia's foreign ministry spokeswoman, says there will be serious repercussions for their close Arctic neighbours. One day ago/ Ukrayinska Pravda : Russia will use nuclear weapons if its sovereignty is threatened – Putin From The New York Post. Russia threatens nukes for US, UK, Finland if NATO expands. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
anthony Posted June 19, 2022 Share Posted June 19, 2022 15 hours ago, Peter said: Vladimir Putin has threatened Sweden and Finland with ' military and political consequences' if they join NATO. Maria Zakharova, Russia's foreign ministry spokeswoman, says there will be serious repercussions for their close Arctic neighbours. One day ago/ Ukrayinska Pravda : Russia will use nuclear weapons if its sovereignty is threatened – Putin From The New York Post. Russia threatens nukes for US, UK, Finland if NATO expands. "Use" nukes is what I'd expect from Ukrayinska Pravda. A propaganda outlet for Ukraine, it makes RT look impartial. "Deploy" - is another thing, and would be the expected defense if a neighbor joined Nato and could base Nato nukes there. https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&rct=j&q=&esrc=s&source=web&cd=&cad=rja&uact=8&ved=2ahUKEwiQkp-8rLr4AhXPu6QKHaEkDEoQFnoECAIQAQ&url=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.reuters.com%2Fworld%2Feurope%2Frussia-warns-baltic-nuclear-deployment-if-nato-admits-sweden-finland-2022-04-14%2F&usg=AOvVaw2eE09eHSh0aGebGXzWsS5i NYP: Russia threatens nukes for US ....Incendiary headline. "Threatens" is: I point my gun at you point blank. I tell you about how powerful is the gun in my jacket, that's critically different. https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&rct=j&q=&esrc=s&source=web&cd=&cad=rja&uact=8&ved=2ahUKEwiQkp-8rLr4AhXPu6QKHaEkDEoQFnoECAMQAQ&url=https%3A%2F%2Fnypost.com%2F2022%2F05%2F14%2Frussia-threatens-nukes-for-us-uk-finland-if-nato-expands%2F&usg=AOvVaw2gT2zLN_ii6ZpxAnSkXdcO Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
anthony Posted June 19, 2022 Share Posted June 19, 2022 Newsweek outlines Russia's nuclear weapon policy, better https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&rct=j&q=&esrc=s&source=web&cd=&cad=rja&uact=8&ved=2ahUKEwiQkp-8rLr4AhXPu6QKHaEkDEoQFnoECAYQAQ&url=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.newsweek.com%2Frussia-says-they-will-use-nuclear-weapons-these-conditions-1705132&usg=AOvVaw1jJocybzF6-nKyJ1_s-awK Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
anthony Posted June 19, 2022 Share Posted June 19, 2022 20 hours ago, Ellen Stuttle said: Oh, hell. I just saw this upon looking at today's Gateway Pundit items: BREAKING: Did Lithuania Light the Fuse on World War III? WWW.THEGATEWAYPUNDIT.COM In a move of staggering stupidity and hubris, Lithuanian banned the transit of Russian goods to Kaliningrad effective today, June 18, 2022. Kaliningrad, which is wedged between Poland on the west and... Ellen Ellen, A low key reaction from Moscow so far. https://www.rt.com/russia/557418-lithuania-trade-blockade-kaliningrad/ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
anthony Posted June 20, 2022 Share Posted June 20, 2022 A mad Englishman. That there are some who approve of western forces going in... https://www.rt.com/news/557443-uk-russia-army-europe/ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ThatGuy Posted June 23, 2022 Share Posted June 23, 2022 Hmmmm... How now, brown- "Ukraine is fighting a heroic battle for freedom and democracy" sacred cow? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ThatGuy Posted June 23, 2022 Share Posted June 23, 2022 Just now, ThatGuy said: Hmmmm... How now, brown- "Ukraine is fighting a heroic battle for freedom and democracy" sacred cow? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
anthony Posted June 29, 2022 Share Posted June 29, 2022 Fight on. We don't want no stinking peace. https://www.rt.com/russia/558047-nato-tells-ukraine-fight/ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
anthony Posted June 29, 2022 Share Posted June 29, 2022 Neo-Nazis beloved by all: Not worth your sympathy: The story of Ukraine's neo-Nazi Azov battalion — RT Russia & Former Soviet Union WWW.RT.COM The Azov Battalion is portrayed as heroes defending Ukraine's freedom, but their track record is one of heinous crime Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Michael Stuart Kelly Posted June 29, 2022 Author Share Posted June 29, 2022 40 minutes ago, anthony said: Fight on. We don't want no stinking peace. Tony, They want to keep the money flowing... Michael Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
anthony Posted June 30, 2022 Share Posted June 30, 2022 On 6/30/2022 at 12:37 AM, Michael Stuart Kelly said: Tony, They want to keep the money flowing... Michael Right. What gets me, the flowing of crocodile tears for the Ukrainian people's sorry plight. All the while, keen to keep the war escalating. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ThatGuy Posted June 30, 2022 Share Posted June 30, 2022 Biden: U.S. to announce $800 million more weapons aid to Ukraine WWW.REUTERS.COM U.S. President Joe Biden on Thursday said Washington will announce $800 million of additional weapons aid to Ukraine in... Biden: U.S. to announce $800 million more weapons aid to Ukraine Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tmj Posted July 1, 2022 Share Posted July 1, 2022 50 billion give or take was not quite enough , needed less than 1/50 more , that sounds about right . Maybe Susan forgot somebody . Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Michael Stuart Kelly Posted July 3, 2022 Author Share Posted July 3, 2022 I stay away from war predictions because information during wartime is anything goes. Always and all sides. But I trust Erik Prince's tactical smarts. He self-identifies as a libertarian, is loathed by the left, but if you look at deeds and not just words, he has come out smelling like a rose in just about every military conflict that has crossed his desk since he founded Blackwater back in 1997. This guy is a beast. He knows what he is talking about when it comes to war. And he does not say things he does not believe in--things that he despises--just to be a part of a political agenda. How many politicians fit that bill these days, much less military politicians? Does anyone disagree with the following? Almost all US politicians in the ruling class, especially those involved with the military, are moral whores who open their legs to the highest bidder. (Apropos, China has been the highest bidder for a while, but that is another issue beyond the scope of this post.) Anywho, Bannon is thick with Prince and, surprisingly enough, they do not agree on several things. But all you have to do is look when they are together and it's easy to see that one trusts the other even when they are at odds. There is respect. That, to me, speaks to the kind of integrity I am attracted to. So here are Prince's predictions re Ukraine. ‘Russia Will Take All Of Ukraine’: Erik Prince Analyzes New Strategies In Russia/Ukraine Conflict ‘Russia Will Take All Of Ukraine’: Erik Prince Analyzes New Strategies In Russia/Ukraine Conflict RUMBLE.COM ‘Russia Will Take All Of Ukraine’: Erik Prince Analyzes New Strategies In Russia/Ukraine Conflict I'll consider these predictions over all others any day of the week. So, in my view, it looks like Ukraine will become part of Russia again. We have to wait and see, but if Erik Prince says that looks like what is going to happen, I think it likely. Plausible at worst. Then again, to be fair, there are those who prefer CNN and MSNBC for their predictions... Michael Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Peter Posted July 4, 2022 Share Posted July 4, 2022 22 hours ago, Michael Stuart Kelly said: I stay away from war predictions I think the moral thing for Russia to do is to apologize, get out of Ukraine and pay reparations . . . oh, and Russia should hang Putin for putting them through the rough times that are coming. Notes. NATO and “the free world” is kinda like . . .The Incredible Hulk. Dr. David Banner—physician, scientist—searching for a way to tap into the hidden strengths that all humans have. Then an accidental overdose of gamma radiation alters his body chemistry. And now, when David Banner grows angry or outraged, a startling metamorphosis occurs. The creature is driven by rage and pursued by an investigative reporter. [Banner]: "Mr. McGee, don't make me angry. You wouldn't like me when I'm angry". Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Michael Stuart Kelly Posted July 4, 2022 Author Share Posted July 4, 2022 Check this out. Most people couldn't find Uganda on a map. Politicians, too. But, as Jimmy said, now that $12 trillion in gold has been found buried over there, wouldn't it be a tragedy if democracy were not instituted in Uganda as soon as possible? Just think of all those human rights that need to be defended. Think of the children. The children, man... How on earth did people overlook the massive suffering in that country? We need to get the US military over there right now. We need to flood in gobs of USA aid. Hell, Uganda needs to be admitted to NATO like yesterday. Whaddya mean it doesn't make sense to let Uganda into NATO because it is too far away? Don't bother me with geography when there's all that fucking gold I mean suffering to deal with. Michael Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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