Ukraine and Endless War for Profit

[william.scherk]

On 5/7/2022 at 5:35 PM, Michael Stuart Kelly said:

William,

Just as curiosity, do you ever have any empathy for the Russians or Russian sympathizers in Ukraine who have been harmed or killed by Ukrainians? [...]

Audio response ...

 

 

Edited May 10, 2022 by william.scherk
Fixed quote block

[Michael Stuart Kelly]

William,

I started listening.

I stopped at the words, "Let's unpack."

When a question is simple and an answer starts like that, it's almost always bullshit.

Sorry. Not interested in playing that.

Michael

[Michael Stuart Kelly]

This is a lady after my own heart.

 

I've got no problem going to war when there is something worth fighting for.

Con jobs and money laundering scams are not worth fighting for.

In fact, the Deep State itself is not worth fighting for.

Michael

[ThatGuy]

18 minutes ago, Michael Stuart Kelly said:

This is a lady after my own heart.

 

I've got no problem going to war when there is something worth fighting for.

Con jobs and money laundering scams are not worth fighting for.

In fact, the Deep State itself is not worth fighting for.

Michael

"Yeah, but Orange Man tariffs against communist China BAD!!!" - Yaron Brook, probably

[Michael Stuart Kelly]

32 minutes ago, Michael Stuart Kelly said:

William,

I started listening.

I stopped at the words, "Let's unpack."

When a question is simple and an answer starts like that, it's almost always bullshit.

Sorry. Not interested in playing that.

Michael

William,

That sounds like snark. It isn't.

On the positive side, or at least a productive side, try learning the AIDA formula.

A = Attention
I = Interest
D = Desire
A = Action

That's for marketing. For normal content, D changes to Deliver instead of Desire (as in Deliver the message or content).

In your presentation, your hook (Attention) was "Audio response." That's a horrible hook coming from you because you normally ramble all over the place before getting to something interesting for the listener. As I looked, I thought, Oh, God. Am I really going to spend 8 minutes just to see what his point is?

Now, if "audio response" was a hook used on OL by, say, someone famous, that would get plenty of people listening. It would work.

Learning the difference between these two takes a form of thinking you are not good at. (Developing this starts in childhood with theory of mind.) 

On the I (Interest) part, a person has to feel WIIFM (What's In It For Me) before they will continue to consume content. That's the vast majority of the time, even for scientific papers. In this case, WIIFM is not in the content per se so much as in the context. The only people who read scientific papers are people who want to use that information for something they are interested in. Thus the I part is covered. For blind copy, it's better to include something to prompt interest in the actual message.

What you presented was a prelude to what promised to be a nitpicking mess. You presented WIIFY (What's In It For You) rather then WIIFM (What's In It For Me).

Since it was not for me, I stopped.

My reaction is the same one you will get from people in general when you ignore these things.

Michael

[Michael Stuart Kelly]

For God's sake.

Ukraine Cuts Off Gas to Europe and the Inflation Double Whammy

Ukraine Cuts Off Gas to Europe and the Inflation Double Whammy

WWW.THEGATEWAYPUNDIT.COM

---

  You read that right. Ukraine announced today that it is cutting off a third of the natural gas flow to Europe: Gas Transit Services of Ukraine (OGTSU) declared force majeure on Tuesday, saying that it was...

The headline is better than the article here.

I mean, the article does do a good job talking about inflation, China and so on, but it totally missed the bird's  eye view.

Fly up there with me for a minute, will you?

What are the big events happening right now?

The US Congress is almost set to send $40 billion to Ukraine.

Ukraine was funding its war (for a big part) with gas.

Conclusion?

Ukraine doesn't need the money from gas anymore.

(To be clear, we understand that "Ukraine" as a country--as a people--does, but not the crooks at the top and their cronies the world over. I sometimes call them "Ukraine.")

Once $40 billion comes in from the USA, if the crooks squeeze Europe gas-wise, it can demand "relief" money from them for the war. And once that tap opens, the sky is the limit.

This is a nice racket if you know how to play it. Why work for money if you can extort it from countries and people?

The article did not mention that. Not even a hint. But with that in mind, the rest of the article is pretty good.

Michael

[anthony]

The initial groundswell of Ukraine support from the West could not survive. What Tucker Carlson noted to be the response mainly from "good-hearted Americans" is true, and for others elsewhere - so long as there are goals in sight and motions for an end to hostilities - and the price of support doesn't exceed the long term costs, sacrificially. Now that it's been announced that a war, which is not directly self-defensive, will be prolonged indefinitely and likely intensified dangerously, totally dismissing the negotiation/treaty route, as from the very start ... the purpose openly and shamelessly stated by the authorities is to "weaken Russia". While simultaneously (and cynically and grotesquely) weakening and killing/injuring more Ukrainians on the West's behalf. A proper self-interest is rising. The people will be less interested in Governments' posturing and pseudo-moralizing for their Russophobic ends . What business is it to ordinary people? Who said "we" must come to Ukraine's material or human support? Especially when "we" begin to learn we were emotionally blackmailed into a global self-sacrifice by deception, that Russia was not entirely "unprovoked" - by Ukraine nor NATO.

[Michael Stuart Kelly]

This scam has been planned on and implemented for a lot longer than it appears--at least 8 years.

btw - Robert Barnes retweeted this one.

There it is in the Pentagon's own words.

All the massive propaganda of the last few months is a result, not a cause. The propaganda has been to keep the general public from stopping the scam, not to get the general public to agree to it in the first place.

Only this time people are looking and seeing a scam.

Michael

[anthony]

Eight years ago.

Such foresight!

Expecting/anticipating/inviting trouble from Russia, was the Pentagon?

Lends weight to Putin's recent speech, that his forces invaded to pre-empt a huge buildup and imminent assault on the East by Kyiv. Now I'm inclined to believe that.

[anthony]

One for MSK: RT propaganda...

US Democrats use Ukraine biolab profits for campaign funding – Russia — RT Russia & Former Soviet Union

WWW.RT.COM

---

Democrat leadership, transnational Big Pharma and the Pentagon are behind the Ukraine biolab program, says the Russian military

 

[Peter]

On 5/9/2022 at 3:06 PM, Michael Stuart Kelly said:

So who cares who invaded first?

99 percent of the world. The United Nation. Americans. Nato. I see Finland is serious about joining Nato and Nazi Russia is threatening "retaliation." 

[Peter]

20 hours ago, anthony said:

Now I'm inclined to believe that.

Will anyone be surprised if Ukraine violates Russian territory? I don't see that happening. Russia is invading Ukraine. There is a Putin quote where he says playing chess strengthens the mind. Unfortunately . . .  he seems to be a lousy chess player and he is ruining his economy and murdering Ukrainian citizens. He is a butcher. Hmmm? The Butcher of Ukraine may be an apt nickname. 

I find it odd the rousing support Russia gets on this objectivist site, though the support is always with caveats. Yeah, he invaded and is murdering people but . . .    

[anthony]

9 hours ago, Peter said:

Will anyone be surprised if Ukraine violates Russian territory? I don't see that happening. Russia is invading Ukraine. There is a Putin quote where he says playing chess strengthens the mind. Unfortunately . . .  he seems to be a lousy chess player and he is ruining his economy and murdering Ukrainian citizens. He is a butcher. Hmmm? The Butcher of Ukraine may be an apt nickname. 

I find it odd the rousing support Russia gets on this objectivist site, though the support is always with caveats. Yeah, he invaded and is murdering people but . . .    

Well, actually Kyiv was "murdering people" - Ukraine citizens - first. (For the past 8 years, I kept reminding).

And its battalions all that time, being trained and supplied by the West for those Donbass attacks, as you read earlier.

Say- there were a settlement of expat Americans being held hostage and murdered by, say, the Govt. or a terror gang in Costa Rica, a US raid, maybe an invasion to rescue them would be morally expected of your government, no?

So the perception can depend on one's media-fed bias, as to which are the victims and who's the victimizer. All Putin's acts and words show this: Right or wrong, he certainly ¬believes¬ Russia and Russian-Ukrainians have been and are being 'victimized' and repressed, held hostage - so to speak - so he needs to "liberate" the East. Crazy, hey?

When everybody knows how innocent and pure have been Nato's and Ukraine's motives.

What I saw in previous arguments on the vaxxes, you hadn't ever bothered to open the many links and peruse contrary info which might compromise your settled position. That's objectivist?

[anthony]

10 hours ago, Peter said:

99 percent of the world. The United Nation. Americans. Nato. I see Finland is serious about joining Nato and Nazi Russia is threatening "retaliation." 

Right. To "preserve the balance of power". The Kremlin since warned it might move missiles nearer that region.

If the Finnish territory becomes, what amounts to, a strategic forward base for NATO, I personally think they'd be extremely foolish.

(Finland has one of the biggest armies in Europe).

I ask (not you - I know)- Who is the (passive?) aggressor, here? And has consistently been for 20+ years?

https://www.rt.com/news/555360-moscow-finland-nato-membership/

[anthony]

2 hours ago, Peter said:

Will anyone be surprised if Ukraine violates Russian territory? I don't see that happening.  

Already happened. Some villagers in Russia hurt and killed by Uke artillery. 

[tmj]

Know what would be a cool trick ? Figure out what 2% or there abouts of a country’s GDP get the IMF to give a loan in that amount so it can go to NATO funding and see how many countries you could sign up. May as well monkeying around with the formula to figure out any particular GDP of a given while you’re at it. Hey wanna bet in the not so distant future we see more countries eager to ‘pledge’ a higher percentage for their ‘defense’?

Btw , that is solely conspiracy musings on my part , but let’s not discount the Beetlejuice factor in the present era, lol.

[william.scherk]

On 5/11/2022 at 5:21 AM, Michael Stuart Kelly said:

On 5/11/2022 at 4:46 AM, Michael Stuart Kelly said:

William,

I started listening.

I stopped at the words, "Let's unpack."

When a question is simple and an answer starts like that, it's almost always bullshit.

Sorry. Not interested in playing that.

Michael

Expand  

William,

That sounds like snark.

The most fun for me was figuring out how to answer the opening question, which was "Do you ever feel empathy ... ?" 

In this recording, I skipped over the offending "Let's unpack the question" [the rest of the sentence and succeediing paragraph below**] and used Blakify to make the "Guy" voicing my words sound rather insane. The voice style is called "Cheerful." It's a lie.

In the recording, Michael's full query on empathy is rendered with "Guy" having an 'Unfriendly' style; to my ears Unfriendly just sounds matter-of-fact.

On 5/11/2022 at 5:21 AM, Michael Stuart Kelly said:

It isn't.

On the positive side, or at least a productive side, try learning the AIDA formula.

A = Attention
I = Interest
D = Desire
A = Action

That's for marketing. For normal content, D changes to Deliver instead of Desire (as in Deliver the message or content).

So, grab attention, okay.  William sounds insane! 

On 5/11/2022 at 5:21 AM, Michael Stuart Kelly said:

In your presentation, your hook (Attention) was "Audio response." That's a horrible hook coming from you because you normally ramble all over the place before getting to something interesting for the listener. As I looked, I thought, Oh, God. Am I really going to spend 8 minutes just to see what his point is?

Understandable. Eight minutes is a long time to listen to crap.

On 5/11/2022 at 5:21 AM, Michael Stuart Kelly said:

Now, if "audio response" was a hook used on OL by, say, someone famous, that would get plenty of people listening. It would work.

Learning the difference between these two takes a form of thinking you are not good at. (Developing this starts in childhood with theory of mind.) 

Ah.  At age 64, I fear it may be too late for me to develop a form of thinking that has escaped me all these years.

On 5/11/2022 at 5:21 AM, Michael Stuart Kelly said:

On the I (Interest) part, a person has to feel WIIFM (What's In It For Me) before they will continue to consume content.

Of course.  If it is from a person whose communication skills are undeveloped, who rambles all over the place and is generally hog-like ...

On 5/11/2022 at 5:21 AM, Michael Stuart Kelly said:

That's the vast majority of the time, even for scientific papers. In this case, WIIFM is not in the content per se so much as in the context. The only people who read scientific papers are people who want to use that information for something they are interested in. Thus the I part is covered. For blind copy, it's better to include something to prompt interest in the actual message.

What you presented was a prelude to what promised to be a nitpicking mess.

Promises made are not always promises kept. A nit-picking mess should be avoided.  Character-reading, on the other hand ...

I agree with the general contours of "people who read scientific papers" ...

On 5/11/2022 at 5:21 AM, Michael Stuart Kelly said:

You presented WIIFY (What's In It For You) rather then WIIFM (What's In It For Me).

Since it was not for me, I stopped.

I read that as because of the "Let's unpack" reverse-attraction.

On 5/11/2022 at 5:21 AM, Michael Stuart Kelly said:

My reaction is the same one you will get from people in general when you ignore these things.

Michael

That's perfectly fine.  You set the tone and the general approach. Not listening to a rendering is in your self-interest. Why waste time with material you know will be awful and boring?  I don't know if I can assess "people in general." 

**

Spoiler

 On 5/7/2022 at 5:35 PM, Michael Stuart Kelly said:

William,

Just as curiosity, do you ever have any empathy for the Russians or Russian sympathizers in Ukraine who have been harmed or killed by Ukrainians?

 

Let's unpack the question. First, it's both pointed and non-specific.  Do I ever have empathy for two vague classes of people subject to harm or killing? Yes, and more specifically, yes and yes. By "Russians [...] in Ukraine," I take it as a blend of Russian-speaking/possibly bilingual ordinary community members in the under-Russian-command parts of Ukraine, and across the span of time since, say, the break-out of hostilities post Orange Revolution. 

Yes. Ordinary folks who have had no direct hand in initiating violence, these are truly victims of war, and in many cases, victims of war-crimes.

Russian-sympathizers is too vague, harms too vague. Killed by summary execution as a prisoner of war: war crime. Civilian shot to death on the side of the road: War crime. We should never lose a sense of horror when such wanton civilian destruction occurs. 

 

Edited May 12, 2022 by william.scherk
Corrected grammar lapses

[Michael Stuart Kelly]

9 hours ago, Peter said:

99 percent of the world.

Peter,

You are misinformed.

I might go along with 99% of the predator class and its toady press.

Out here in the heartland (being the people who have to pay for it), nobody cares.

Nobody.

Let me repeat that.

Nobody.

Nada.

Zilch.

Non-issue.

 

So let me ask:

If the people who have to pay for it don't care, if they have nothing to gain when forced to pay for it, why should they pay for it?

That's an Objectivist question, by the way. It doesn't get any more Objectivist than that.

So why ignore these people? Why blank them out and force them to pay for something they don't care about? And to add insult to injury, go around saying they pay because they care?

Because someone said so?

Because it follows a storyline?

Because one wants deduce reality from a principle and to hell with the deaths of their children? (That reality doesn't count, right?)

 

Don't take my word for it. Seek these people out and see for yourself.

But you won't get to them on CNN.

Or, better.

Watch what happens in the midterms, then watch what happens to your highly-esteemed regime change war.

They are the ones who will do that.

Will you see them then?

Michael

[Michael Stuart Kelly]

4 hours ago, william.scherk said:

The most fun for me...

William,

Your entire post is WIIFY.

You even start by talking about your own fun.

So have fun...

 

Michael

[Michael Stuart Kelly]

2 hours ago, Michael Stuart Kelly said:

So why ignore these people? Why blank them out and force them to pay for something they don't care about? And to add insult to injury, go around saying they pay because they care?

Vulgar alert.

This reminds me of a nasty saying in Brazil.

A vulgar one.

There's no way to prepare this properly, so here goes.

Getting it up the ass isn't the hard part. The hard part is the hot and heavy breathing on the back of your neck.

Michael

[william.scherk]

8 hours ago, anthony said:

I ask (not you - I know)- Who is the (passive?) aggressor, here? And has consistently been for 20+ years?

https://www.rt.com/news/555360-moscow-finland-nato-membership/

In this answering item, I give William's script to the "terrified" style "Guy," one of Blakify's Azure voices. I am not convinced this is what a terrified guy sounds like developing an argument, but I wanted to see how offbeam "Guy" could be made to sound -- since the script suggested a put-upon, 'put-on' voice already ...

He almost screams the end of "'Which glorious culture of obedience do you want -- rich, mean imperialist West, or relatively-poor, revanchist Russia 2022?'"

Here, a smoother voice, using a style tweak called "Angry," in a reading wherein our Guy kinda pulls off a friendly, courteous performance of the same material.

Half pleasant 'tourist police,' half insurance agent. "But first, curse Ukraine's wild Nozzi-Joo predator-class leadership, their pitiless cruelties, their emotionalism, their PR victories. "

 

Edited May 13, 2022 by william.scherk
2022!

[anthony]

Which glorious culture ... do you want ... etc.? [WS]

 Not for you, I, or anyone to specify on others behalf.

Strange as it seems to some, there are great numbers of people who choose to hold on to their ways of life, traditions, languages -- etc. untouched by modernisation. As you'd know.

I could point to remote communities and villages in most of Africa and much of the M.E.

If that's their source of a kind of cultural pride, self-determination and independence from outsiders, no one or Gvt. has the right to rush them against their will into the progressive era. In fact they may look at the paroxysms of civilisation today and retort: No thanks! Our slow and backward life is best.

Future generations (of e.g. 'backward' Russians and E. Ukrainers) will eventually get there - just not yet.

Listening to you reel off European countries, it occurs to me again that the senseless expansion of NATO (promising collective security - with conformity - and whatever else) is the perfect vehicle to help promote Shwabian and Sorosian Globalism. No joke, I heard someone say the whole world should join Nato in one great happy family. No more wars, love and peace. Right...

 

[Peter]

KYIV, Ukraine (AP) — The Kremlin warned about taking retaliatory “military-technical” steps after Finland’s leaders came out in favor of applying to join NATO, and Sweden could do the same within days, in a historic realignment triggered by Russia's invasion of Ukraine. End.

What was Lenin’s first name?  Vladimir.  What is Putin’s first name?  Vladimir. Virtually everybody is scared of the murderous Vlad except those of OL. Weird.

[Michael Stuart Kelly]

34 minutes ago, Peter said:

Virtually everybody is scared of the murderous Vlad except those of OL. Weird.

Peter,

I don't want to keep harping on this, but this statement is 100% wrong.

I, for one, am afraid of Putin and what he could do to the world.

It's just that the solution you are offering to take care of him not only sucks, it makes things worse. (Believe me, my friend, there are other solutions, effective ones. Not just the sucky one you entertain, which is not a solution.)

The people currently in charge are evil. Here is just one example out of many:

Isn't one Libya enough?

Let me ask that again.

Isn't one Libya enough?

The people you want to take care of Putin have given us open legal slave markets. They sure took care of Ghaddafi, but now we have open legal slave markets.

Humankind got rid of slavery as an institution. The USA fought a Civil War over slavery. But now slavery is back.

Legal slaves.

Legal.

Bought and sold as chattel property. With receipts and everything.

And you want more of that?

Hell no.

I should be the one saying weird.

At the very least, I am not going to go along with it.

Slavery is evil.

(Don't get me started on the heroin stuff, selling out to China, the gun running and all the other crap.)

If you are afraid of Putin, look elsewhere to tame him. 

Michael

[anthony]

POLL:

What does the West really think about the Ukrainian conflict? — RT World News

WWW.RT.COM

---

With their leaders arming Ukraine and sanctioning Russia, people in the West have mixed feelings about the response

"Furthermore, they consider Russia the fourth biggest threat to America and would rather see President Joe Biden than Russian President Vladimir Putin leave office".