ThatGuy Posted December 3, 2021 Share Posted December 3, 2021 "Senator Joe Manchin announced he would join all 50 Republicans in the Senate in voting for a resolution of disapproval that would roll back the OSHA vaccine mandate." Joe Manchin Does It Again PJMEDIA.COM Sen Joe Manchin announced he would join all 50 Republicans in the Senate in voting for a resolution of disapproval that would roll back... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Michael Stuart Kelly Posted December 3, 2021 Share Posted December 3, 2021 I added the transcript to the above video between Steve Bannon and Peter Navarro. And for convenience, I'm repeating the transcript here. 2 hours ago, Michael Stuart Kelly said: EDIT: Here is the transcript I made. I did not check it for errors since, I presume, not many will read it. So there might be an error here and there. And don't forget. Trump listens and listens hard to Peter Navarro. Quote BANNON: Peter Navarro. Peter, from the first cold open. Biden said, "I'm going to give you speed and science vs chaos and confusion." Sir, I hate to be so brutally frank about this, but he's talking about you. That you're the person that does chaos and confusion. Okay? And that's what they had last winter. And he's giving you speed and science. What say you, sir? NAVARRO: So I guess if I'm the guy he's criticizing, I'm the guy on February 9th, 2020... Write a memo: we can get the vaccine done by October or November. We did it in Trump time. Had 150 million doses handed over to the Biden regime after Inauguration Day. And it was a miracle. So if that's chaos and confusion, embrace the chaos and confusion. Now, let's compare the track records. Biden had the Trump vaccine from day one. More people... more people have died from COVID under the Biden regime, over 350,000, than did under the Trump regime. And we were in the fog of war. We didn't know what was hitting us. And we didn't know that it came from this lab here, the Tony Fauci building. It was genetically engineered. So I'll take the Trump record anytime. What's missing here from the Biden plan is any mention of therapeutics. Of those 353,000 people... BANNON: Pretty shocking... NAVARRO: ... who died under the Biden regime... That's like, ehnnn... it's about three and a half Rose Bowls of people. Right? Well over half of those people would be alive today if hydroxychloroquine were readily available to people through their private physicians. I had a very interesting conversation with a young woman today. She's in her thirties. She's got several children. She got COVID. She's got of a fairly significant case of it. She's in her 9th day, not feeling well. It's the worse thing she's ever gone through. She was unable to get hydroxychloroquine anywhere in the state of Arizona. She got a prescription for Ivermectin, but couldn't get it filled. And so she's left with... her only protection is an experimental technology, an RNA technology which is not really a true vaccine, which could basically interfere with her reproductive cycle. So that's the Biden plan. And, Steve, here's what alarms me. Germany versus Sweden. Florida versus Vermont. We have a world now split by scientism and science. The scientism is this godless worship of a fake vaccine--it's going to make Pfizer and Moderna shareholders rich. But it's likely going to cause endless [mutations] and not provide adequate protection for people. (crosstalk) BANNON: Hang on. We're burning daylight. I appreciate that. But you said "fake vaccine." This is one that you called the Trump vaccine earlier and this is the one you worked on. So it's not fake. It's just not for everybody. Right? NAVARRO: It's not a vaccine. So let me be clear about this. (crosstalk) NAVARRO: It's an experimental RNA technology that injects antibodies, a limited number of spike proteins, gets a limited immune response, and gives you some protection in the show term, but breeds vaccine resistant mutation. So, look. President Trump did a great job on this. OK? But we're using it in the wrong way. It should only be a measure for senior citizens at risk... at high risk of death and people for comorbidities. BANNON: Target it... (crosstalk) NAVARRO: I can't say this more. Flood the zone with hydroxychloroquine, Ivermectin, zinc, vitamin D, azithromycin, and all the other things that are coming up as cheap antivirals. I'm telling you, Steve, more than half of the people that Joe Biden has killed with his policies on COVID would be alive today. And remember Fauci was the guy during the Trump Administration, along with Hahn at the FDA and Janet Woodcock, who's the current head of the FDA, and Rick Bright who killed hydroxychloroquine during the Trump Administration... So, there are literally, of the seven hundred thousand plus people who have been killed here in this country, more than half of them would be alive today. And let's not forget, Steve, we have the highest death rate--here--of any any major countriy. Let me say that again. The United States of America has the highest death rate of any major country. We've got, supposedly, the most sophisticated in-quotes "vaccine," but no therapeutics. (crosstalk) BANNON: OK. But hang on. But now that you say that, they argue because only 59.8% of the country's fully vaccinated, Dr. Navarro. NAVARRO: It's got nothing to do with that. I mean (mocking laughter), there's plenty other countries with lower death rates with much lower vaccine rates. It's just total BS. And I keep saying vaccine, but it's not. The injectables, the jabs that they put out there. It's not helping. This latest version, which should have been the Xi Jinping version, they call it omnicron instead because they skipped a letter of the alphabet. Which is just another kowtow to the world. People are getting that virus and they've had the jab. I mean... this is insanity. People are dying needlessly. (crosstalk) COMMENT: Notice how Peter Navarro's emphasis is on saving lives. And it doesn't matter what saves them. He wants to save lives, not be right in a duel of gotchas or differing theories or verbal gymnastics or Trump Derangement Syndrome or Trump Bedazzlement Syndrome. It's all about saving lives. That difference in frame is the part I'm having difficulty getting across. By blaming Trump for not fixing Biden's idiocy and crappy frame, we are playing the fiddle while Rome is burning. Trump, Navarro, and those other guys are not. They are trying to put out the goddam fire as Biden keeps spewing gasoline all over it. In the context of no therapeutics and the government mandating the vaccine for everyone, even for children, trashing the vaccine or talking it up is bullshit. If Trump bashed the vaccine right now, does anyone honestly think Biden and his idiots will stop spewing gasoline on the fire? The fire is over there among the idiots, not here where there is no power. And it's raging in the here and now, not in the sometime somewhere. We need to get the medicine, or access to the medicine (therapeutics) distributed to everyone. Appeasing the idiots and adopting their frame will only result in more fire. Michael Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Michael Stuart Kelly Posted December 3, 2021 Share Posted December 3, 2021 1 hour ago, william.scherk said: What "William is basically saying" is debatable. William, That's for sure. Michael Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mark Posted December 3, 2021 Share Posted December 3, 2021 “NAVARRO: ... Flood the zone with hydroxychloroquine, ivermectin, zinc, vitamin D, azithromycin, and all the other things that are coming up as cheap antivirals.” That’s Navarro talking not Trump. In the five little speeches I’ve quoted Trump had the opportunity to say the above, and failed to do so. It was my great shot, my great shot throughout, with a nod to therapeutics which had been developed during his administration, so they were not any of the above. About Bannon, he comes with baggage: Guo Wengui. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Michael Stuart Kelly Posted December 3, 2021 Share Posted December 3, 2021 Navarro is on Trump's team about as close to Trump as can be. What Navarro is saying now is what Trump has been saying all along. Not loudly and mostly in meetings, but he has been saying it. Before too long Trump will be saying the nMRA jab is not a vaccine just like Peter Navarro is now saying. And as I keep saying, Overton Window, etc. etc. etc. If Trump does not get reelected and a squish does, the dead bodies will pile higher and higher and higher. Michael Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Michael Stuart Kelly Posted December 3, 2021 Share Posted December 3, 2021 btw - Guo Wengui rocks. He's a major force for Taiwan. And he's helping undermine the CCP. In addition, his company aired the perverted videos on Hunter Biden's laptop, he funds Gettr, and he even sings. On 9/16/2021 at 5:03 PM, Michael Stuart Kelly said: I watch a lot of Steve Bannon's War Room. It struck me just now that the theme song, "Fight for Hong Kong" featuring billionaire Miles Guo as the singer (and probably the songwriter) is really good. Note, this is often erroneously called "Take Down the CCP," which is a different song by Miles Guo. Here is the YouTube video: But we all know that YouTube can take this down at any minute, so here is a link to the song on Rumble: Miles Guo - Fight For Hong Kong (Warroom Theme Song) RUMBLE.COM Song is the theme song from Steve Bannon Warroom Pandemic. Let's take down the CCP And here are the lyrics: Quote Fight for Hong Kong Miles Guo 他们的恐惧 是我们的武器 我们的胜利 谢谢了 兄弟姊妹们 你们健身了吗? 行动！行动！行动！ 中共，你完了 Take down the CCP Take down the CCP Take down the CCP Take down the CCP Take down the CCP Take down the CCP Everything is just beginning For the games you want to play Bring it on and I will fight till the end Just watch and see It′s all started everything's begun And you are over Coz′ we're taking down the CCP Spread the word all through Hong Kong We will fight till they're all gone We rejoice when there′s no more Let′s take down the CCP They've all lied for too long We will end what they do wrong Spread the word all through Hong Kong Let′s take down the CCP Let the bullets fly a little longer And you will surrender Let the bullets fly a little longer We will let freedom to live We will, when you surrender Let the bullets fly a little longer Let the bullets fly a little longer 中共 (let the bullets fly a little longer) 你完了 (let the bullets fly a little longer) 中共 (let the bullets fly a little longer) 干灭中国共产党，这个CCP 才能让我们远离恐惧 take down the CCP They try to scare the nation with fabrication But we see through the lies You will fall, we will fight you back Police corruption with crooked assumption They ran our lives But no more, we will win We will take down the CCP Spread the word all through Hong Kong We will fight till they're all gone We rejoice when there′s no more Let's take down the CCP They′ve all lied for too long We will end what they do wrong Spread the word all through Hong Kong Let's take down the CCP Let the bullets fly a little longer And you will surrender Let the bullets fly a little longer We will let freedom to live We will, when you surrender Let the bullets fly a little longer Let the bullets fly a little longer 站起来吧 Let the bullets fly a little longer 站起来吧 Let the bullets fly a little longer 被奴役的人们 Let the bullets fly a little longer 行动 Let the bullets fly a little longer 行动 Let the bullets fly a little longer 你完了 Let the bullets fly a little longer (take down) Let the bullets fly a little longer (CCP) Let the bullets fly a little longer And you will surrender Let the bullets fly a little longer We will let freedom to live We will, when you surrender Let the bullets fly a little longer Take down The CCP (let the bullets fly a little longer) Take down The CCP (let the bullets fly a little longer) Take down The CCP (let the bullets fly a little longer) Take down The CCP (let the bullets fly a little longer) Take down The CCP (let the bullets fly a little longer) Take down The CCP (let the bullets fly a little longer) Take down The CCP (let the bullets fly a little longer) Take down The CCP (let the bullets fly a little longer) Take down the evil CCP There are two main hooks in this song: "take down the CCP" and "let the bullets fly a little longer." Both, to me, are rip righteous roaring hooks. I've tried to find out where this song is making a huge splash online, but I sense censorship. You can find the song, just not many views. However, since this is the War Room theme song, it is heard by about 90 million people with every broadcast (based on podcast download numbers). That means it is heard every day by many millions more people than that. Enjoy. It's a wonderful song and it deserves to be heard on its own. Let the bullets fly a little longer against the CCP indeed. Michael 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
william.scherk Posted December 3, 2021 Share Posted December 3, 2021 17 hours ago, Mark said: We should have a complete account of Trump digging himself in with the vaccine narrative. Here are three earlier statements to add to the two I’ve quoted on this thread already, here and here. Trump talks vaccines in December 2 2021 Fox and Friends interview: Full video at YouTube Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Michael Stuart Kelly Posted December 3, 2021 Share Posted December 3, 2021 14 minutes ago, william.scherk said: Trump talks vaccines in December 2 2021 Fox and Friends interview: Full video at YouTube William, That's great campaign talk. Quote "He's done just an absolutely terrible job getting it out and getting people to take it. I mean people just don't want to take it." . . . People don't want to take 'em because they don't trust Biden. They don't trust the administration." . . . "They have just not been able to sell it. People are not trusting this administration." This is pure twisting the knife in the Biden administration using Biden's own jab-promotion frame. Why blame the virus or vaccine when he can blame Biden? Watch what happens at voting time. Then, after election, watch what happens to all the vaccine crap going on right now. For you and the the other gotcha warriors, the word headfake comes to mind... Michael 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
william.scherk Posted December 4, 2021 Share Posted December 4, 2021 Robert Malone chats with Sean Hannity for an October 29 Interview (I edited out the intro/outro and a commercial message). Sean asks some good questions and Malone is at his crisp and compelling best. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dglgmut Posted December 4, 2021 Share Posted December 4, 2021 Donald J Trump on Gab: '' - Gab Social GAB.COM Donald J Trump on Gab: 'America fell 340,000 jobs short of the very modest expectations set by economists. That’s because Joe Biden is... Quote America fell 340,000 jobs short of the very modest expectations set by economists. That’s because Joe Biden is a one trick pony, “Get the vaccine.” But no one trusts this administration. I developed the vaccine when everyone said it wasn’t possible, now without “Trump,” that’s their only solution. This administration is destroying America before our very eyes because there is no leadership. Besides my vaccine, this is the administration of no jobs and massive layoffs, high gas and energy prices, high crime, empty shelves, open borders, and a horrendous surrender and evacuation from Afghanistan. A lot of effort and money went into RIGGING the 2020 Presidential Election, only to destroy the Country. Was it worth it? 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mark Posted December 4, 2021 Share Posted December 4, 2021 Trump’s December 2nd phone interview makes a total of six pro-vax speeches found so far. These speeches persuaded some of his admirers to get vaxxed – and get their children vaxxed – who would not have done so otherwise. A transcript of his remarks about the vax, starting at 2:08, follows. Trump is not too coherent in places; the transcript is verbatim: “[Interviewer asks about the covid deaths while Biden is president versus covid deaths when he was. He doesn’t say deaths “with covid” or “of covid.” And he seems to take for granted that unlike the Church, Medicine and State should be joined.] “Well, he’s done a terrible job, just like he did with the, uh, uh, H1N1, he’s done just a absolutely terrible job, uh, getting it out. And getting people to take it. I mean people just don’t want to take it. And the vaccines have been— you know I have to be very proud of the vaccines. We did it in less than nine months. People said it was gonna take five years to 12 years and probably wouldn’t work. They working incredibly well. [I must interrupt. The H1N1 was gotten out all right, and so many people died that it was quickly withdrawn. And here is the point, the deaths were far fewer, as a rate, than under the covid vax yet the covid vax is not being withdrawn. Apparently Trump, clueless and deluded, doesn’t know this.] “Some people don’t want to take ’em, that’s their freedom and that’s what we have to do. But people don’t want to take ’em because they don’t trust Biden, they don’t trust the administration. We had none of that. Everybody was fighting to take ’em and we were doing great, we were doing really great on distribution. “We also bought billions of dollars worth before we knew it was gonna be successful, which saved us one year. So many things we did right, and what [speaking of the Biden administration] they’re doing is very sad when you look at what’s happening. But [contra Biden] more people died during this year than last year by a very substantial margin. And sadly this year is not up. [One interviewer asks why people wouldn’t trust the vax when it was made under Trump’s administration.] “Well, a couple of things. Number one, they did a pause on Johnson & Johnson which really sent shocks through, over six people – that didn’t die by the way – but six people and for that, millions and millions of shots given and they did the pause with Johnson & Johnson, that was very bad, uh, and they just haven’t been able to sell it, people are not, they are not trusting this administration. “And if you remember when, during the debate I think she said and he said [mocking voice], Oh if it’s Trump I won’t take the vaccine, I won’t take the vaccine. And then as soon as he got elected he tried to claim that he didn’t but he forgot that he got a shot, during my administration he got a shot. “But there was just a great distrust of what they were saying and what they were doing. And I think that’s the problem and that’s why they’re trying to set up mandates and really hurting things with the economy, with the mandates, in addition to other things.” Trump did not answer the interviewer’s question, though his brief and inarticulate mention of the Johnson & Johnson affair hints at the safety issue. It was six women with overt systemic blood clots, including in each case cerebral. He is wrong that none of them died. One died and one was hospitalized in critical condition. The last may have been injured permanently, how about the others? Trump pretends that all problems with the vax get recorded and pretends no one is ever really injured, when both pretenses are grossly false given the actual numbers. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dglgmut Posted December 4, 2021 Share Posted December 4, 2021 On 12/2/2021 at 8:01 PM, william.scherk said: Read a couple or more or all quotes from Malone in the article and find out what he has to say about Kariko and how he views his departure from grad school and who fucked him over in the following years. Read the story from his wife. The "quotes" in the article are all broken down into 5 word snippets. It's garbage journalism. It's essentially a journalist attacking a scientist on the basis of science. Anyone interested in that is just looking for validation of their own opinions in a really pathetic way. The left are giving medical advice through mediums like Bigbird, while criticizing celebrities who have shared their experiences and tried to frame that sharing as giving medical advice. When it is convenient they say listen to the experts, when it is convenient they allow non-experts to give medical advice. If you don't have an allergy to this bullshit it's going to be a tough time to think clearly. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Peter Posted December 4, 2021 Author Share Posted December 4, 2021 9 hours ago, Jules Troy said: Gal Gadot Dats one fine looking lass! Unless you are Mark…. Do ya tink it's because she' s Jewish? Elaine? Can you come over? I know, I know, we had sex twelve times during the series. How about one more time? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Michael Stuart Kelly Posted December 4, 2021 Share Posted December 4, 2021 3 hours ago, Dglgmut said: Donald J Trump on Gab: '' - Gab Social GAB.COM Donald J Trump on Gab: 'America fell 340,000 jobs short of the very modest expectations set by economists. That’s because Joe Biden is... D, That quote shows perfectly what Trump is doing. Campaign-wise, Biden is banking everything on the vax to be the great success of his administration. Look at his actions and words. He's painting himself as the savior of America by shoving the vax at everyone through mandates, vaxes for kids, and so on. And Trump is taking even that from him by taking credit for the vax as he emphasizes Biden's failures. Trump's posture is helping to destroy Biden's reputation among with his own supporters. The question is, attack the vax or attack Biden? Hell, in a country where elections rule politics, that's a no-brainer. And I haven't even talked about the money angle. (Imagine Big Pharma when it comes time to hedge its bets. Will it continue supporting Biden at all costs with his steadily tanking ratings, or will it try to seduce Trump the closer we get to elections?) There's one more point. As a friend keeps telling me, I have always been one to say Trump has access to a lot more information than any one of us has and he often befuddles the public based on that knowledge in a way that always manages to make the critics look like fools in the end. But I haven't been saying that and it's true. So I should start saying it. Trump does have access to a lot more information than we have. That's another reason I know he will fix this, not just slap a bandaid on it. Michael Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mark Posted December 4, 2021 Share Posted December 4, 2021 “[For Trump] The question is, attack the vax or attack Biden?” Or as in or else? That’s an obvious false dichotomy. Trump should attack both, especially since Biden is pro-vax. At this point, concerning the vax’s safety and efficacy Trump sounds just like Biden. “Trump has access to a lot more information than any one of us ...” Concerning the vax Trump is clueless and self-deluded. He not only isn’t in a position to fix the vax fiasco, he’s part of it. There is still time for him to fix himself before 2024. Some people here are not helping him do it by praising his amazing ignorance. How will persuading his friends and their children to take the vax, it’s good, make his critics look like fools in the end? The bedazzleds’ answer: He’s a genius befuddling his enemies in incomprehensible ways only he can understand! How will that end look? Will Trump do an about face and say to his hapless supporters who believed him and got the clot-shot: “Too bad suckers, it was for a noble end!”? Will he then help get all unused bottles of vax, so recently praised to the skies, incinerated? All the lying medicos so recently warp speeded, put in prison? While he works to get ratified a Constitutional amendment mandating the separation of Medicine and State, for the same reason as the separation of Church and State? I’m sick of Trump and his bedazzleds. We need a fresh candidate. Trump is only the backup candidate, the better than a woke Democrat, the dim light that looks bright against a black wall. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
anthony Posted December 4, 2021 Share Posted December 4, 2021 Look at the Omicron figures below by country: Millyuns and millyuns of infections (um, not quite, presently about 200). "Dozens of countries globally"... Big Om - sourced from those terrible, under-vaxxed (Q.E.D) South Africans - is coming soon to your location (carried/transmitted almost certainly by fully vaccinated travellers...) What worked the first time, therefore, repeat. The propagandist machine is frightening everyone to death, again -- with a 'new' virus. https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&rct=j&q=&esrc=s&source=web&cd=&cad=rja&uact=8&ved=2ahUKEwiS8rHyisr0AhXTT8AKHba4CWIQFnoECCcQAQ&url=https%3A%2F%2Fedition.cnn.com%2F2021%2F11%2F29%2Fworld%2Fcovid-omicron-variant-countries-list-cmd-intl%2Findex.html&usg=AOvVaw2aIjvIwYNvantUyE50NyLu USA: "1 case". BUT, in contradiction to those miniscule numbers "globally", one must equally accept Omicron is becoming "the dominant strain" in South Africa, fuelling a "worrying " and "exponential rise" of corona. 77 cases recorded of Omicron in SA, according to the CNN article, out of 75,900 new CV-19 cases lately reported here. Who are they trying to fool? https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&rct=j&q=&esrc=s&source=web&cd=&cad=rja&uact=8&ved=2ahUKEwiS8rHyisr0AhXTT8AKHba4CWIQFnoECCIQAQ&url=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.theguardian.com%2Fworld%2F2021%2Fdec%2F02%2Fomicron-variant-fuelling-exponential-rise-in-covid-cases-say-south-africa-officials&usg=AOvVaw0kBFr0ljOIBjIKuHviZtCQ Desperation is setting in, I think. A convenient diversion was needed to distract most people from the obvious fact that vaccines are singly incapable of ending the pandemic (not to mention vaxx risk factors) - but - you WILL get one now in the light of this 'new' strain.. From my WebMD today. “Early data from South Africa suggest increased transmissibility of the Omicron variant, and scientists in the United States and around the world are urgently examining vaccine effectiveness related to this variant,” Walensky said in the statement. Walensky also encouraged the 47 million adults who haven’t yet been vaccinated against COVID-19 to get a shot “as soon as possible.” She said children and teens should be vaccinated to “prevent serious illness” and protect their families. “I also want to encourage people to get a COVID-19 test if they are sick,” she said. “Increased testing will help us identify Omicron quickly.”" (See what I mean?) 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dglgmut Posted December 4, 2021 Share Posted December 4, 2021 4 hours ago, Mark said: How will persuading his friends and their children to take the vax, it’s good, make his critics look like fools in the end? Exactly... I don't see why he can't say that while he doesn't admit to mistakes he didn't make, in this case the vaccine turned out to be less safe and effective than was the goal. Saying "MY vaccine" and admitting that it's flawed puts the media into a weird spot where they've been praising the vaccine relentlessly, but they cannot deny that it was developed under Trump. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dglgmut Posted December 4, 2021 Share Posted December 4, 2021 1 hour ago, anthony said: Desperation is setting in, I think. A convenient diversion was needed to distract most people from the obvious fact that vaccines are not doing their job to end the pandemic (apart from all else) - but - you WILL get one.. It's insane. They are talking about mandatory boosters every 9 months in Germany and in all Europe for travel. It's amazing how people have this idea of a "slippery slope fallacy" that they have been trained to associate with actual slippery slopes. My question right now is how many vaccinated people who got it simply for the convenience, peer-pressure, threat of unemployment etc, are going to accept a booster? I can't imagine the numbers for a booster are as high as the original 2-doses, even if the same coercive actions are taken. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
anthony Posted December 4, 2021 Share Posted December 4, 2021 3 hours ago, Dglgmut said: My question right now is how many vaccinated people who got it simply for the convenience, peer-pressure, threat of unemployment etc, are going to accept a booster? I can't imagine the numbers for a booster are as high as the original 2-doses, even if the same coercive actions are taken. Dg, Heard here and there, anecdotally, apparently people in those categories feel they've "done enough". They won't be going back for seconds (thirds, etc.). And then you get the fanatical true believers and do-gooders who will follow orders (regardless of their health status or possible need of vaccination). Some of them I was reminded today are getting unbelievably vicious at the "anti's" on Facebook, wishing them dead. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marc Posted December 4, 2021 Share Posted December 4, 2021 2 hours ago, Dglgmut said: Exactly... I don't see why he can't say that while he doesn't admit to mistakes he didn't make, in this case the vaccine turned out to be less safe and effective than was the goal. Saying "MY vaccine" and admitting that it's flawed puts the media into a weird spot where they've been praising the vaccine relentlessly, but they cannot deny that it was developed under Trump. The Art of War. Trump has never been wrong and is multiple moves ahead in the game. We do not have the information to really totally get it but he does. This is a world war, and a world war civil war in every country on Earth, and we are all Jews right now. Trumps ground game is spectacular, and we have secured Normandy. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marc Posted December 4, 2021 Share Posted December 4, 2021 7 hours ago, Mark said: “[For Trump] The question is, attack the vax or attack Biden?” Or as in or else? That’s an obvious false dichotomy. Trump should attack both, especially since Biden is pro-vax. At this point, concerning the vax’s safety and efficacy Trump sounds just like Biden. “Trump has access to a lot more information than any one of us ...” Concerning the vax Trump is clueless and self-deluded. He not only isn’t in a position to fix the vax fiasco, he’s part of it. There is still time for him to fix himself before 2024. Some people here are not helping him do it by praising his amazing ignorance. How will persuading his friends and their children to take the vax, it’s good, make his critics look like fools in the end? The bedazzleds’ answer: He’s a genius befuddling his enemies in incomprehensible ways only he can understand! How will that end look? Will Trump do an about face and say to his hapless supporters who believed him and got the clot-shot: “Too bad suckers, it was for a noble end!”? Will he then help get all unused bottles of vax, so recently praised to the skies, incinerated? All the lying medicos so recently warp speeded, put in prison? While he works to get ratified a Constitutional amendment mandating the separation of Medicine and State, for the same reason as the separation of Church and State? I’m sick of Trump and his bedazzleds. We need a fresh candidate. Trump is only the backup candidate, the better than a woke Democrat, the dim light that looks bright against a black wall. Bet you dollars to donuts, or shekles to matzo ball soup, in your case, that you were one who chanted no ground game before the primaries. Notwithstanding that, if you were around then you would have been complaining about Normandy thinking it was a bad move. We dont know what we dont know but President Trump is the King of the world! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brant Gaede Posted December 4, 2021 Share Posted December 4, 2021 Trump has always had access to all the info he needed including a lot of crap and didn't know or figure out what was factual and go with truth or revert to the truth respecting Covid. He unleashed the phony vaccines and the economic lockdowns. He was run over by bureaucrats with the help of his son-in-law. The last spoke to his essential political incompetence. --Brant will he actually work at being President next time or tweet away the presidency again? a lot of good things happened during his four years in office but boy oh boy was his backside shredded! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Michael Stuart Kelly Posted December 4, 2021 Share Posted December 4, 2021 3 hours ago, Dglgmut said: Saying "MY vaccine" and admitting that it's flawed puts the media into a weird spot where they've been praising the vaccine relentlessly, but they cannot deny that it was developed under Trump. D, That is exactly the point. I love seeing people using their independent mind in the middle of cognitive dissonance. You didn't shy away from that point. And, speaking of cognitive dissonance, if that is what you are feeling right now, check your premises. Didn't Rand say (I paraphrase) whenever you see a contradiction in nature, check your premises and one of them will be false? Your premise is that Trump is trying to persuade people to take the vax. Or that he can persuade them to to that. On the surface it looks like that, but do you agree that Trump is a master persuader? Even his biggest enemies agree he is. And his enemies who know about persuasion know he is. They have felt it on their hide. So ask yourself this. If it is true that Trump is a master persuader, why is he so lousy at persuading people to take the vax? Mull that over a bit, look at the examples, and see for yourself if that is true or not. It's true. He is awful at persuading people to take the vax. So check that premise. Maybe Trump isn't focusing on getting people to take the vax. Maybe he is using it as a campaign bludgeon on Biden and a means to befuddle the press exactly in the manner you said. As to the chances in reality (as opposed to verbal dueling) of Trump persuading people about the vax, I seriously doubt he is moving people to take the vax or not take it. In fact, by simply issuing an opinion, I claim he can't move people in one direction or the other. Those who are against the vax will not suddenly take it because Trump says it's good. And those who want to take the vax will simply say, "See? Trump agrees with me." The people in the middle will do what people in the middle always do--follow the crowd. Do you think Trump is savvy enough to know this? I do. And the crowd has been lathered up to be scared. So the best thing is to move the crowd in a different direction. Not forward or backward. Sideways. Now to the important context. Did you read Navarro's stats, that 350,000 people have died of COVID in America under Biden? That the USA is No. 1 in COVID deaths in the entire world, including percentage-wise? How does that compare against the number of people the vax has damaged? I don't know the stats on that since I don't trust any of them and that means I rarely look at them. But I doubt the vax damage on record is anywhere near the 350,000 mark for America. I trust Peter Navarro to find the most reliable stats since he has all kinds of inside information. And he openly spoke out against the vax for everyone policy while giving no stat on vax damage. But, every day he is pounding on the 350,000 people mark, claiming half of them would not have died if they had had access to therapeutics. In other words, he sees that as the bigger problem. So that is where he is focusing right now. And I bet he has advised Trump in the manner. But the vax damage is real. So how do you fix it? Well, one way to try is to do a frontal assault against a massive well-oiled and well-funded machine. What do you suppose will happen in that case? Will you beat the machine? Heh. You will run over, that's what. These are the same assholes who pulled off the biggest election fraud in history against Trump himself. Or do you throw sand in the machine's fuel? I, myself, opt for the sand and I know Trump does, too. Here's the truth. Gobs of people are taking the vax out of fear right now. That's their prime reason. Those who get the panic join the stampede. You have to have observed this. No amount of telling a person who is deathly afraid that he or she should not be afraid, that the real thing they should fear is something else (like the "cure" they are taking), that the people they trust are leading them astray, etc. etc. etc. You can say that until you are blue in the face, but you will not change the person's mind. Just look around. But what if you told them a different story outside of that fear frame, but integrated with it, and let them come to their own conclusion? There are few axioms in persuasion, but the ones that exist are universal. Wanna know one? You can never convince people better than they can convince themselves. That is the golden rule of persuasion and there are no exceptions. But there is a workaround for authoritarians: force. You can force people to act the way you want them to act if they have convinced themselves of the contrary. But even then, many will fight you and sabotage you. Enter the covert persuasion part. If you scare the bejeezus out of them and present yourself as the way for them to stay safe, a large number will come crying into your arms and do whatever you tell them to do. These people persuade themselves through their fear, not through their reason. And once they have persuaded themselves, you, the authoritarian, got them. No amount of reason will reach them thereafter in the short term So what is Trump to do with those people? If he tells them the vax is dangerous, they will not listen to him. What's worse, the scared people are in the majority right now, even among MAGA people. So rather than do the frontal assault suicide mission, Trump tells them he owns the vax in a way nobody else owns it. That an impostor has usurped the vax and is making a holy mess out of it. And he tells the people who are against the vax that they have their freedom to not take it. It's not a perfect solution that will convince everyone down to the last person, but it will convince most. And that is enough sand to throw into the fuel of the machine to make it choke and stutter. Then, once power comes back to Trump and his MAGA staff, he can make the propaganda fear machine grind to a halt and let the vax panic die off. I don't see any other solution that will work. What's more, this is a process, not an on-off switch. And, unfortunately, logical arguments do not control this process. How many arguments are you going to win against terrified people if you are arguing against their terror? You won't find any that work. None. Zilch. Once again, look around. As to cognitive dissonance, we just have to live with that during shifts in the Overton window and major direction changes of crowds. Here is a rule-of-thumb that will help you navigate cognitive dissonance in the middle of a dangerous situation. Look at what the leaders say and look at what they do. If you find them to be opposite, go with what they do as the better indication of the truth. Michael Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Michael Stuart Kelly Posted December 4, 2021 Share Posted December 4, 2021 25 minutes ago, Brant Gaede said: Trump has always had access to all the info he needed including a lot of crap and didn't know or figure out what was factual and go with truth or revert to the truth respecting Covid. He unleashed the phony vaccines and the economic lockdowns. He was run over by bureaucrats with the help of his son-in-law. The last spoke to his essential political incompetence. --Brant will he actually work at being President next time or tweet away the presidency again? a lot of good things happened during his four years in office but boy oh boy was his backside shredded! Brant, I mostly agree with this, but I don't agree about tweets and incompetence. Tweets only kept the media busy and the public churn going. Some thought they were fun. Others were able to live in a constant stage of outrage. But the tweets did nothing in terms of policy except shift the Overton Window against the reliability of the press. The real problem was other. Trump was trying to govern by coalition among friend and foe like he has always done in business. (He even got John Bolton aboard for a while.) And he did it as competently as anyone could. But the reality of human nature does not let coalition among friend and foe happen in large-scale public ventures without major damage to the person in power. So Trump learned a hard lesson about the nature of political foes. That's what shredded his backside. Even so, like you said, "a lot of good things happened during his four years in office." That was not by accident and those good things did not just happen. Trump did them. And they happened precisely to his competence. One exception to all this. I agree about Jared, meaning with him there is an extra consideration. The guy married Ivanka and in terms of his daughter, Trump is a big-ass softie. Michael Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tmj Posted December 4, 2021 Share Posted December 4, 2021 On 12/2/2021 at 9:19 AM, tmj said: I wouldn't be surprised if basic incompetence isn't saving lives and helping to do less harm. The handling and storage protocols for at least the mRNA formulations are pretty stringent and the formulations themselves are fragile outside of those strictures. I hope what that means is that given the level of professionalism among staffing and state of storage equipment at the 'jab' clinics that , hopefully, a lot of the injections were inert. I'm in my local Rite Aid quite frequently , the staff is very nice and as helpful as I would want, but guaranteed expert cryogenic handlers isn't a label I would faithfully attach to them , but nice people for sure. US drugstores squeezed by vaccine demand, staff shortages | AP News APNEWS.COM A rush of vaccine-seeking customers and staff shortages are squeezing drugstores around the U.S., leading to frazzled workers and temporary pharmacy closures. Drugstores are... Just saying 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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