Marc Posted August 11, 2022 Share Posted August 11, 2022 (edited) 19 minutes ago, Strictlylogical said: Ha. Well now you need not speak of yourself if you are too humble.. I would be interested in your reaction to my answer re. the silence from O-land, and of course I'm also interested in your ideas on the subject. I know you asked Michael and not me but.............. Trump cannot win the nomination. Trump cannot win any primaries. Trump cannot beat HRC Trump has no ground game Trump is insane Trump is a blah blah blah Trump said pu--y Trump cannot NOT get impeached. Thats why the lurkers lurk. I invite them to come and tell us why Trump is finished. Haters hate. Edited August 11, 2022 by Marc 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marc Posted August 11, 2022 Share Posted August 11, 2022 8 minutes ago, Peter said: from Fox: AG Garland to make statement. It is 2:44 now, 72 hours after the FBI home invasion. I should be on SCOTUS so I am upset. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
william.scherk Posted August 11, 2022 Share Posted August 11, 2022 (edited) Edited to make clear what was quoted from an article. 12 hours ago, Michael Stuart Kelly said: "A federal judge on Wednesday ordered the Biden Justice Department to produce a copy of a search warrant executed at his Mar-a-Lago estate, where the FBI conducted a nine-hour-plus search on Monday." Michael was quoting from the body of the Conservative Daily story. [It's possible to edit the attribution header, but you have to use a stand-alone HTML or Rich Text editor -- and OL software strips out any such edits. It should read like this, in a better world: ] Here is the fuller context. 12 hours ago, Michael Stuart Kelly said: 23 hours ago, Michael Stuart Kelly said: Bobb clearly said the FBI tried to prohibit her from seeing the search warrant at first, but after bickering with them they did. Then she said clearly they did not leave a copy of the search warrant with her, but she qualified that with "right away." So that implies she now has a copy. But she likely did not when Habba spoke. And she did not say when or where she got a copy, if she has one (which she probably does). Also, she said clearly that the supporting documentation for the search warrant is under seal. There's more. Federal Judge Orders DOJ to Provide Copy of Trump Raid Warrant Wrong/misleading claim, as the yesterday's docket entry simply ordered a response from the DOJ by Monday.The DOJ has responded just now -- my main takeaway is that Garland decided the public interest is served by unsealing the documents presently held closely guarded by Trump counsel. [Added] Link to DOJ filing: https://storage.courtlistener.com/recap/gov.uscourts.flsd.617854/gov.uscourts.flsd.617854.18.0_2.pdf Edited August 11, 2022 by william.scherk Added link to DOJ filing; added context for untrue statemen in the CB article. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Michael Stuart Kelly Posted August 11, 2022 Share Posted August 11, 2022 3 hours ago, Strictlylogical said: I would be interested in your reaction to my answer re. the silence from O-land, and of course I'm also interested in your ideas on the subject. S, There is a long answer to this, but I don't have time to go deep. However, you touched on the essence so I will give a short answer. It should wed well with the patterns you noticed. When you integrate a philosophy or a principle, you have to think it through if you want to align it with reality, not just obey it because you like some of the accompanying features (like how it makes you feel or who else believes in it, etc.). If you do the latter as your standard--the one you use, not the one you say you use--pretty soon the hypocritical cracks will appear in your own behavior and communication. The main drive behind Objectivism is to get people to think independently. If not, why was Rand always saying, "Check your premises"? Unfortunately, many people in O-Land give lip-service to this, but they act differently. They get pissed when someone checks premises they prefer not to check. They worry about others and not themselves. I think this comes from an inferiority complex clashing with a core story of superiority inside themselves. I honestly believe that. Rand's way of writing encourages a sense of superiority in the reader. It feels damn good, too. That's where many stop. As Maya Angelou said, "People will forget the things you do, and people will forget the things you say. But people will never forget how you made them feel." (As an aside, Angelou did not come up with this. The origin of the quote is from Mormon, Carl Buehner. See here. And I first heard it from Rush Limbaugh.) Rand also encourages a sense of certainty, which also feels damn good. So imagine what wedding certainty to superiority feels like to people who, inside themselves, believe they suck, they are impostors, and they are ashamed of that. Talk about cognitive dissonance. That's what makes my vision so different than these others. Or, at least, I believe that is the case and I base my belief on doing this for years. This last statement is not false humility. I am aware I am capable of missing something right in front of me. So maybe I am missing something here, too. I don't think I am, and I feel certain of that. But I've screwed up on this too often to eliminate the possibility. Nowadays, I try to keep my "identify correctly in order to evaluate correctly" principle as the main standard for my own certainty, not just habit. And I report what I see and think based on my observation much more than point to lack of alignment of others to a core story. In other words, I use Objectivism for self-improvement, not for bossing others around. I used to crack up Barbara Branden all the time when we would get to discussing some issue or other where widespread inconsistent behavior in O-Land was present. At one point, I would say: Objectivism. A philosophy for telling others how to live on earth. She would always laugh at that. Not just chuckle. But laugh out loud. Using these comments as the frame, I propose that many people in O-Land are silent on things like the Trump raid because they have not been told by Ayn Rand what they should think of it. They don't know how to boss people around about it because they, themselves, don't know what to think of it. So they keep their traps shut and hope nobody notices. (The widespread Trump Derangement Syndrome in many of them comes from feeling, not from reason, but that's beyond the short-answer scope. I'm just mentioning it to leave it on record.) But if you look at the "check your premises" part of Objectivism, Rand did tell them. She didn't tell them what to think about issues she did not cover, but she did tell them how. And here's the rub. Checking premises does not feel good. It's painful. But entertaining one's own certainty and superiority does feel good. Really, really good. It's a neurochemical banana-split. And there's this. Silence doesn't cost anything. Anyway, that's my short answer. Michael 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Michael Stuart Kelly Posted August 11, 2022 Share Posted August 11, 2022 44 minutes ago, william.scherk said: Wrong/misleading claim... William, Are you being dishonest or just lazy? You attributed a quote to me that I did not say. Then, as gravy, you called someone else's opinion from an opinion piece I quoted a "wrong/misleading claim." Why do you do this? Do you think you are going to fool OL readers that way? Michael 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
william.scherk Posted August 11, 2022 Share Posted August 11, 2022 A pertinent part of the DOJ motion to unseal the search warrant and the the 'return' inventory: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Michael Stuart Kelly Posted August 11, 2022 Share Posted August 11, 2022 As long as we're still doing words words words, I have a few words. Come November, all this abuse of power will start to resolve. Why? Because, as Steve Bannon says, we are going to give the abusers a "democracy suppository." Once that becomes deeds and not just words, at that time I will be more interested in the words words words. Frankly, I will want to hear what the democracy suppository recipients have to say as they receive their dose. Michael Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
william.scherk Posted August 11, 2022 Share Posted August 11, 2022 (edited) 4 hours ago, william.scherk said: Is it in Trump's interest to have all or some of this material unsealed? I don't have access to Pacer or whatever pay-to-read repository of legal matters journalists use. If this brief quote-without-URL-to-verify is true, the magistrate has given Donald Trump a chance to lodge an objection the public release of the warrant and return/inventory. From Law and Crime. Quote “The United States shall immediately serve a copy of its Motion on counsel for former President Trump,” Reinhart wrote in a paperless order. “On or before 3:00 p.m. Eastern time on August 12, 2022, the United States shall file a certificate of conferral advising whether former President Trump opposes the Government’s motion to unseal." Taking bets on whether Trump will oppose the the government motion or not. Edited August 11, 2022 by william.scherk Screenshot added Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Michael Stuart Kelly Posted August 11, 2022 Share Posted August 11, 2022 1 hour ago, william.scherk said: ... the DOJ motion to unseal the search warrant... Two words. Damage control. And it ain't working. Michael Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ThatGuy Posted August 11, 2022 Share Posted August 11, 2022 2 hours ago, Michael Stuart Kelly said: Objectivism. A philosophy for telling others how to live on earth. 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
william.scherk Posted August 12, 2022 Share Posted August 12, 2022 7 hours ago, william.scherk said: If this brief quote-without-URL-to-verify is true, the magistrate has given Donald Trump a chance to lodge an objection the public release of the warrant and return/inventory. From Law and Crime. Quote “The United States shall immediately serve a copy of its Motion on counsel for former President Trump,” Reinhart wrote in a paperless order. “On or before 3:00 p.m. Eastern time on August 12, 2022, the United States shall file a certificate of conferral advising whether former President Trump opposes the Government’s motion to unseal." Expand Taking bets on whether Trump will oppose It's not hard to parse Trump's response. The two documents in question can be posted to Truth Social tomorrow. If he convinces his advisors and legal team. He could also have his "no objections" communicated to the magistrate in the morning, and leave it up to him to follow the AG's order. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Michael Stuart Kelly Posted August 12, 2022 Share Posted August 12, 2022 William, Ah... Now I understand. I couldn't figure it out before, but now it clicked. Asking for a bet on legal minutia. You are trying to gotcha Trump, right? Taking on a former president. I'm impressed. Your scope has grown. Now it's way bigger than OL. Michael 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Michael Stuart Kelly Posted August 12, 2022 Share Posted August 12, 2022 There's some funny shit out there. Quote While Trump was hijacking The Beast, strangling his secret service agent, plotting to overthrow the US government, and shattering plates at the White House, he was also secretly copying nuclear documents to store in a safe at his house in Florida. That’s their narrative. That's not just their narrative, that's their "controlled narrative." It's all about controlling the narrative... Oh, the pain... the pain... LOL... Michael Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Michael Stuart Kelly Posted August 12, 2022 Share Posted August 12, 2022 Here. Lemme do this one just to calm it down a bit. From the U.S. Ministry of Truth: Quote BREAKING: Garland confirms FBI raided Mar-a-Lago to find George W. Bush's weapons of mass destruction. LOLOLOL... Michael Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Michael Stuart Kelly Posted August 12, 2022 Share Posted August 12, 2022 When I made the post right before the last one, I didn't realize the nuclear codes thing was referring to serious fake news. But it is. Look here: From WaPo (at Archive): FBI searched Trump’s home to look for nuclear documents and other items, sources say Just look at how this beauty of an article starts, too. Quote Classified documents relating to nuclear weapons were among the items FBI agents sought in a search of former president Donald Trump’s Florida residence on Monday, according to people familiar with the investigation. Experts in classified information said the unusual search underscores deep concern among government officials about the types of information they thought could be located at Trump’s Mar-a-Lago Club and potentially in danger of falling into the wrong hands. The people who described some of the material that agents were seeking spoke on the condition of anonymity to discuss an ongoing investigation. They did not offer additional details about what type of information the agents were seeking, including whether it involved weapons belonging to the United States or some other nation. Nor did they say if such documents were recovered as part of the search. A Trump spokesman did not respond to a request for comment. The Justice Department and FBI declined to comment. I mean, how many anonymous sources did they fabricate consult? Those three paragraphs are a population explosion of weasels (who speak weasel words). Holy shit again and again. We all know that disinformation about nuclear codes is straight from the lack of intelligence community, right? It looks like the bought and paid for reporters didn't even rewrite the memo. Is there no end to them making the fuckup of the raid on Trump's house worse? I stand in awe. This gang who can't shoot straight is the gift that keeps on giving... We don't need to fight them to beat them (although we do and will). All we need to do is stand back, eat popcorn, and watch them destroy themselves. Michael Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Michael Stuart Kelly Posted August 12, 2022 Share Posted August 12, 2022 Here's a Truth Social post by Mike Davis on that WaPo article. Mike Davis on GETTR : Trump stole launch codes from nuclear football? DoD didn’t deactivate when he left office? DoD didn’t notice missing for 18 months? FBI found codes in Melania’s underwear drawer? Trump forged Biden order getting rid of 2-man rule? “Nuclear documents” is clear deflection. https://www.washingtonpost.com/national-security/2022/08/11/garland-trump-mar-a-lago/ GETTR.COM Trump stole launch codes from nuclear football? DoD didn’t deactivate when he left office? DoD didn’t notice missing for 18 months? FBI found codes in Melania’s underwear drawer? Trump... Quote Mike Davis 46m Trump stole launch codes from nuclear football? DoD didn’t deactivate when he left office? DoD didn’t notice missing for 18 months? FBI found codes in Melania’s underwear drawer? Trump forged Biden order getting rid of 2-man rule? “Nuclear documents” is clear deflection. FBI searched Trump’s home to look for nuclear documents and other items, sources say Experts in classified information said the unusual search underscores deep concern among government officials about the types of information they thought could be located at Mar-a-Lago.www.washingtonpost.com Posted on 12:29 AM · Aug 12th, 2022 This is just getting started. One lady on that thread commented: Quote Nuclear codes? Did the packer of the boxes have highest of security clearances? Idiots. Michael 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Michael Stuart Kelly Posted August 12, 2022 Share Posted August 12, 2022 Steve Bannon comments on it, too. Steve Bannon on GETTR : Merrick Garland stands in front of the nation and says ‘DoJ only speaks through its filings’ ; then walks off stage and immediately leaks an absurd rationale to the AmazonBezosWaPo scribes …. Nuclear material— what a sick joke GETTR.COM Merrick Garland stands in front of the nation and says ‘DoJ only speaks through its filings’ ; then walks off stage and immediately leaks an absurd rationale to the AmazonBezosWaPo scribes …. Nuclear... Quote Steve Bannon @SteveBannon 5h Merrick Garland stands in front of the nation and says ‘DoJ only speaks through its filings’ ; then walks off stage and immediately leaks an absurd rationale to the AmazonBezosWaPo scribes …. Nuclear material— what a sick joke [Embedded Truth Social post below:] Steve Cortes @steve 6h Who believes this fantasy outside of NY & DC newsrooms??? ‘I heard Trump had actual nuclear fuel rods at MAL. They were hidden in Melania’s wardrobe. Thank goodness Garland got them back!’ Posted on 8:08 PM · Aug 11th, 2022 Michael Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marc Posted August 12, 2022 Share Posted August 12, 2022 Was going to post this in the Biden thread but probably no one will see it. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tmj Posted August 12, 2022 Share Posted August 12, 2022 Things like that sure aren’t extending Biden’s shelf-life much , ‘they’ may calculate getting a tighter grip on a slipping narrative might be benefitted by removal of a POTUS and subsequent shitshow could produce more cover than Biden as deranged punching bag. It must be nearing the end of the window of being able to juice that ole skinflint up with enough meds to keep him upright for more than ten minutes , physically unable to function is looking like the bar , because no one seems to mind him being incoherent, much anyway. I’d like to say the idea that Biden pardons himself and his family out the door is too far fetched , but these days ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ThatGuy Posted August 13, 2022 Share Posted August 13, 2022 This. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Michael Stuart Kelly Posted August 13, 2022 Share Posted August 13, 2022 We should never confuse fake news stories with reality. The fake news story: Trump Trump Trump raid raid raid this time he's done this time he's done this time he's done nuclear codes nuclear codes nuclear codes blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah The reality: Congress Passes $700 Billion ‘Inflation Reduction’ Act Congress Passes $700 Billion 'Inflation Reduction' Act WWW.BREITBART.COM The House passed the Inflation Reduction Act, which, unlike its moniker, does not reduce inflation and spends billions on climate change. It's the way magicians work. While the right hand was moving "raid" and pattering "Trump," the left had was reaching into our pockets and getting the money. Michael 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
william.scherk Posted August 14, 2022 Share Posted August 14, 2022 (edited) On 8/10/2022 at 2:24 PM, william.scherk said: But anyhow ... Does anyone expect Trump to authorize the release of the text of the search warrant? Not me. Everyone except the bent want to know what actual crimes were alleged. Too bad. This was quite wrong, in two or three ways. Setting up the question to invite a plumbing of Donald Trump's mind is arguably okay. But then using an "everyone knows" gambit loads the dice. Gratuitous. Fail. Marks docked for not anticipating that the magistrate would need to deal with a DOJ motion to unseal the warrant and return document (inventory). If I had, if I had then correctly guessed that Trump would not send an objection to the motion by deadline, and that the judge was persuaded by the public interest argument, C. I did not foresee the Attorney-General coming out of his mole run. I'd assumed that a rare talker before microphones was a never talker. It all adds up to fail. The key element of hubris: presumption. Next time simply ask an open-ended question ("What do you all think might happen?") and not a loaded or leading question. On 8/10/2022 at 2:24 PM, william.scherk said: Does anyone expect Trump to authorize the release of the (probably not too detailed) 'inventory' document also left with Trump's lawyer Bobb? Not here. In retrospect, my failed mind-read of Trump should stand as a warning. Thus chastised, he read on ... On 8/10/2022 at 2:24 PM, william.scherk said: Note: A third document Bobb did not get to see and that we don't get to see is any actual "probable cause" document prepared by the FBI investigators that the magistrate will have read over. That is I presume under seal. Using more of this quasi-neutral register when speculating or in ignorance, recommended. Wild, snide, haughty, exuberant or otherwise pointed rhetoric can be used, but not as a glossing over. It's okay to not have an immediate opinion. Typed with one digit on my mobile phone. Thank you for coming to my Dialectic notes to self. Cruelty-free snacks in the lobby. Edited August 14, 2022 by william.scherk Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Michael Stuart Kelly Posted August 14, 2022 Share Posted August 14, 2022 William, Cognitive before normative time. Dayaamm! Michael Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ellen Stuttle Posted August 14, 2022 Share Posted August 14, 2022 William, Yawn. Ellen 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marc Posted August 14, 2022 Share Posted August 14, 2022 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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