Frank's Niece!

[Brant Gaede]

Cathy, you could try emailing Barbara Branden at BBranden1@aol.com. I'm not sure if it's just a drop for her webmaster, but you have nothing to lose by trying. She'd have answers to some of your questions.

Unlikely to get a reply. I've no sense Barbara's been Internet active in the last year or two.

--Brant

Ill keep that in mind, thank you Brant. It hasn't came yet...waiting as patiently as possible. ~Cathy~

When a woman tells me that, I get anxious.

--Brant

"Monday, Monday . . ."

[KacyRay]

Kacy,

The original circle:

BB and NB.

I think Peikoff met Rand a few times before Rand's move to NYC in '51.

Joan Mitchell, Barbara's longtime friend and college roommate.

Allan Blumenthal, NB's cousin.

NB's sister Elayne, who was living in New York.

His other two sisters, Florence and Reva, and their husbands, sometimes visited.

Joan brought in Alan Greenspan. She was married to him briefly, but the marriage was annulled. After a bit - judging from the date on the wedding photo in Barbara's book, in 1957 - she married Allan Blumenthal. She's subsequently gone by the name Joan Mitchell Blumenthal.

Elayne married a stock broker named Harry Kalberman. There's a photo of the wedding, dated April 1955, in Heller's book.

Joan Mitchell also brought in Mary Ann Rukavina, later Sures, an art student whom I think she met at the Art Student's League or maybe at NYUniversity. Mary Ann became good friends with Leonard Peikoff.

The 1955 photo of Elayne and Harry's wedding seems to be before Mary Ann was part of the group. At any rate she isn't in the photo.

Reva Fox, her husband Sholey Fox, and Mary Ann are in the photo of Joan and Allan's wedding. Allan had started wearing a hair piece between the two photos. They all look so young!

Florence and her husband aren't in either photo.

Edith Efron I suppose qualified as part of "the Collective" for a time. She isn't in either photo.*

There also developed what was called "the Junior Collective," the members of which were multiple and varying.

Ellen

Add: * Edith Efron's time as part of the group began after Atlas had been published (pg. 295, Heller). An official announcement of its end appeared in the June 1967 The Objectivist.

Kacy,

The original circle:

BB and NB.

I think Peikoff met Rand a few times before Rand's move to NYC in '51.

Joan Mitchell, Barbara's longtime friend and college roommate.

Allan Blumenthal, NB's cousin.

NB's sister Elayne, who was living in New York.

His other two sisters, Florence and Reva, and their husbands, sometimes visited.

Joan brought in Alan Greenspan. She was married to him briefly, but the marriage was annulled. After a bit - judging from the date on the wedding photo in Barbara's book, in 1957 - she married Allan Blumenthal. She's subsequently gone by the name Joan Mitchell Blumenthal.

Elayne married a stock broker named Harry Kalberman. There's a photo of the wedding, dated April 1955, in Heller's book.

Joan Mitchell also brought in Mary Ann Rukavina, later Sures, an art student whom I think she met at the Art Student's League or maybe at NYUniversity. Mary Ann became good friends with Leonard Peikoff.

The 1955 photo of Elayne and Harry's wedding seems to be before Mary Ann was part of the group. At any rate she isn't in the photo.

Reva Fox, her husband Sholey Fox, and Mary Ann are in the photo of Joan and Allan's wedding. Allan had started wearing a hair piece between the two photos. They all look so young!

Florence and her husband aren't in either photo.

Edith Efron I suppose qualified as part of "the Collective" for a time. She isn't in either photo.*

There also developed what was called "the Junior Collective," the members of which were multiple and varying.

Ellen

Add: * Edith Efron's time as part of the group began after Atlas had been published (pg. 295, Heller). An official announcement of its end appeared in the June 1967 The Objectivist.

Thanks Ellen!

[Cathy]

Cathy, you could try emailing Barbara Branden at BBranden1@aol.com. I'm not sure if it's just a drop for her webmaster, but you have nothing to lose by trying. She'd have answers to some of your questions.

Unlikely to get a reply. I've no sense Barbara's been Internet active in the last year or two.

--Brant

Ill keep that in mind, thank you Brant. It hasn't came yet...waiting as patiently as possible. ~Cathy~

When a woman tells me that, I get anxious.

--Brant

"Monday, Monday . . ."

Read this first thing this morning...thanks for starting my day off right lol! ~Cathy~

[Neil Parille]

Mark

I did buy Barbara's archives , and since then I have expanded the archives in a huge way . I am working very hard on this project but for the last few years I have been focusing on simply buying , and collecting research on Rand and the history of Objectivism .

Shoshana Milgram, who is associated with the Ayn Rand Institute, is writing the authorized biography of Rand. Since it appears that the ARI's Archives did not interview many people with whom Rand split, I assume she has to try to interview them or listen to the interviews that have already been done. Has she contacted you?

-Neil

[Neil Parille]

In 100 Voices there is an interview with Judy Berliner. She says that in 1961, Rand came to the University of Michigan and gave her an interview for a student newspaper. Rand also gave a speech.

She says that Frank's sister, her husband, and two daughters "came from Lorain to see her speak." The relatives said that Rand was "fun to have at family dinners." (P. 219.)

As late as 1980 Rand went to Chicago to be on the Donahue show, so maybe she and Frank traveled more than we realized.

-Neil Parille

[Cathy]

In 100 Voices there is an interview with Judy Berliner. She says that in 1961, Rand came to the University of Michigan and gave her an interview for a student newspaper. Rand also gave a speech.

She says that Frank's sister, her husband, and two daughters "came from Lorain to see her speak." The relatives said that Rand was "fun to have at family dinners." (P. 219.)

As late as 1980 Rand went to Chicago to be on the Donahue show, so maybe she and Frank traveled more than we realized.

-Neil Parille

I tried telling you that ~Cathy~

[Cathy]

I would like to thank Brant with my whole heart for the most wonderful and thoughtful gift! The print of my uncle's painting came today! Ironically, the painting is called the "Diminishing returns"! Brant, I will never forget you, thank you so much! I love it! I'm having it framed tomorrow. As you all know, I believe in God. I have prayed all my life for God to lead me in the right direction...and he lead me here. I know now, I needed answers to the questions I didn't know I had. All of you have helped me with that, and I want to say thank you. I loved My Aunt Alice and Uncle Frank, and they probably have broken every commandment written, but God is a forgiving God out of love, and I forgive them to, out of love. As in the beginning is now in the end, nothing matters in between...I am an O'Connor, and Brant made me realize I am proud of it. Brant, I will treasure this painting until my last breath! ~Cathy~

[Brant Gaede]

You're welcome, Cathy.

--Brant

[Neil Parille]

Cathy,

The historical record does not, at this point, indicate multiple visits by Ayn and Frank to Lorain over a period of 10-15 years.

I recall reading somewhere (I think in Heller's bio) that Rand kept a calendar. If the ARI would open up the Archives we would know one way or another.

-Neil

[Cathy]

Cathy,

The historical record does not, at this point, indicate multiple visits by Ayn and Frank to Lorain over a period of 10-15 years.

I recall reading somewhere (I think in Heller's bio) that Rand kept a calendar. If the ARI would open up the Archives we would know one way or another.

-Neil

why wont they open it?

[Neil Parille]

Cathy,

The Ayn Rand Institute is devoted to creating an image of a near-perfect Rand. Access is generally limited to those who agree with this.

Here is some information on the Archives:

http://www.scribd.com/doc/118620534/The-Six-Million-Dollar-Rand-Review-of-100-Voices-An-Oral-History-of-Ayn-Rand

For more information, see the appendix to Jennifer Burns' book Goddess of the Market: Ayn Rand and the American Right

-Neil

[Cathy]

Cathy,

The Ayn Rand Institute is devoted to creating an image of a near-perfect Rand. Access is generally limited to those who agree with this.

Here is some information on the Archives:

http://www.scribd.com/doc/118620534/The-Six-Million-Dollar-Rand-Review-of-100-Voices-An-Oral-History-of-Ayn-RandNeil is that why there is a debate going on...and its Barbra's book That the is in question? Is it because she had the affair that they don't want to believe? Why would they want her to be perfect? What is in the hidden archives they don't want the public to know? How can we see them?

For more information, see the appendix to Jennifer Burns' book Goddess of the Market: Ayn Rand and the American Right

-Neil

[Neil Parille]

Cathy,

The ARI and Leonard Peikoff agree and know that Rand had an affair.

-Neil Parille

[Cathy]

Cathy,

The ARI and Leonard Peikoff agree and know that Rand had an affair.

-Neil Parille

Then what are they hiding? Do you think Marc has the something's as Peikoff does in his archives? How is away someone could get in there and see it?

[ginny]

Cathy, don't try to understand Peikoff. They aren't hiding anything (to my knowledge) but they are deathly afraid of anything that might be revealed that makes Ayn less than godlike. You blew it when you referred to her as kooky aunt alice. Ayn Rand cannot be kooky, and anyone who dares to say it is pure evil. It would be the same if I called god an a**. (I'm not insulting your beliefs, but you get my meaning, right?)

Peikoff has worshipped at the knees of the goddess since he was 17. He's like a cultist, and he gives Objectivist a lousy reputation. I'm not sure how far your googling has taken you, but there are 2 major existing factions of obj. - closedand open. Peikoff leads the closed group, who insist that anything that does not agree with what Rand said cannot be called Obj. Anything good and correct said following her dead cannot be called Obj. It's plain weird.

You'll notice that about the only ones who haven't acknowledged your presence are Peikoff's little gang, Everyone else is more than happy to help you, but to the close gang, you don't exist. If you did, you might besmirch the great name of Rand. Cathy, Peikoff will never respond to you, and yes, he has all of the information.

[Cathy]

Cathy, don't try to understand Peikoff. They aren't hiding anything (to my knowledge) but they are deathly afraid of anything that might be revealed that makes Ayn less than godlike. You blew it when you referred to her as kooky aunt alice. Ayn Rand cannot be kooky, and anyone who dares to say it is pure evil. It would be the same if I called god an a**. (I'm not insulting your beliefs, but you get my meaning, right?)

Peikoff has worshipped at the knees of the goddess since he was 17. He's like a cultist, and he gives Objectivist a lousy reputation. I'm not sure how far your googling has taken you, but there are 2 major existing factions of obj. - closedand open. Peikoff leads the closed group, who insist that anything that does not agree with what Rand said cannot be called Obj. Anything good and correct said following her dead cannot be called Obj. It's plain weird.

You'll notice that about the only ones who haven't acknowledged your presence are Peikoff's little gang, Everyone else is more than happy to help you, but to the close gang, you don't exist. If you did, you might besmirch the great name of Rand. Cathy, Peikoff will never respond to you, and yes, he has all of the information.

Thank you Ginny. I already tried Peikoff. I wonder if he waited for this day to happen...and now he hides! You would think that anyone who was with my uncle all those years and admired him would want to talk to the only living relative of his, I would. Peikoff isn't even related and I wanted to talk to him about them, because he was with them. He doesn't know what I agree upon on her views and beliefs to disapprove of me, so what is he afraid of? He knows! Does he come on here...do you think he has read this. And if he has, why doesn't he try to disprove me? I am sure by now he's been told, plus I e-mailed him in Feb. Let me ask you something...I hope no one takes this personally, or gets offended, this is just my thoughts... How can anyone worship a person who commits adultery, had an abortion, and who is Atheist? All the things I do not believe in. How much power does she have???? Let me ask you something again...do I have any legal rights to get into that archive???? ~Cathy~

[Cathy]

Cathy, don't try to understand Peikoff. They aren't hiding anything (to my knowledge) but they are deathly afraid of anything that might be revealed that makes Ayn less than godlike. You blew it when you referred to her as kooky aunt alice. Ayn Rand cannot be kooky, and anyone who dares to say it is pure evil. It would be the same if I called god an a**. (I'm not insulting your beliefs, but you get my meaning, right?)

Peikoff has worshipped at the knees of the goddess since he was 17. He's like a cultist, and he gives Objectivist a lousy reputation. I'm not sure how far your googling has taken you, but there are 2 major existing factions of obj. - closedand open. Peikoff leads the closed group, who insist that anything that does not agree with what Rand said cannot be called Obj. Anything good and correct said following her dead cannot be called Obj. It's plain weird.

You'll notice that about the only ones who haven't acknowledged your presence are Peikoff's little gang, Everyone else is more than happy to help you, but to the close gang, you don't exist. If you did, you might besmirch the great name of Rand. Cathy, Peikoff will never respond to you, and yes, he has all of the information.

Thank you Ginny. I already tried Peikoff. I wonder if he waited for this day to happen...and now he hides! You would think that anyone who was with my uncle all those years and admired him would want to talk to the only living relative of his, I would. Peikoff isn't even related and I wanted to talk to him about them, because he was with them. He doesn't know what I agree upon on her views and beliefs to disapprove of me, so what is he afraid of? He knows! Does he come on here...do you think he has read this. And if he has, why doesn't he try to disprove me? I am sure by now he's been told, plus I e-mailed him in Feb. Let me ask you something...I hope no one takes this personally, or gets offended, this is just my thoughts... How can anyone worship a person who commits adultery, had an abortion, and who is Atheist? All the things I do not believe in. How much power does she have???? Let me ask you something again...do I have any legal rights to get into that archive???? ~Cathy~

p.s. they never called her kooky Alice to her face...I believe now it was her views is why they called her that. I thought it was her accent. I am sorry they did that...she accomplished more in life than my dad did...maybe that's why he didn't like her, and used other excuses for his dislike.

[Cathy]

Cathy, don't try to understand Peikoff. They aren't hiding anything (to my knowledge) but they are deathly afraid of anything that might be revealed that makes Ayn less than godlike. You blew it when you referred to her as kooky aunt alice. Ayn Rand cannot be kooky, and anyone who dares to say it is pure evil. It would be the same if I called god an a**. (I'm not insulting your beliefs, but you get my meaning, right?)

Peikoff has worshipped at the knees of the goddess since he was 17. He's like a cultist, and he gives Objectivist a lousy reputation. I'm not sure how far your googling has taken you, but there are 2 major existing factions of obj. - closedand open. Peikoff leads the closed group, who insist that anything that does not agree with what Rand said cannot be called Obj. Anything good and correct said following her dead cannot be called Obj. It's plain weird.

You'll notice that about the only ones who haven't acknowledged your presence are Peikoff's little gang, Everyone else is more than happy to help you, but to the close gang, you don't exist. If you did, you might besmirch the great name of Rand. Cathy, Peikoff will never respond to you, and yes, he has all of the information.

Thank you Ginny. I already tried Peikoff. I wonder if he waited for this day to happen...and now he hides! You would think that anyone who was with my uncle all those years and admired him would want to talk to the only living relative of his, I would. Peikoff isn't even related and I wanted to talk to him about them, because he was with them. He doesn't know what I agree upon on her views and beliefs to disapprove of me, so what is he afraid of? He knows! Does he come on here...do you think he has read this. And if he has, why doesn't he try to disprove me? I am sure by now he's been told, plus I e-mailed him in Feb. Let me ask you something...I hope no one takes this personally, or gets offended, this is just my thoughts... How can anyone worship a person who commits adultery, had an abortion, and who is Atheist? All the things I do not believe in. How much power does she have???? Let me ask you something again...do I have any legal rights to get into that archive???? ~Cathy~ p.s.s. what are these $$$ above our heads for?

[Ellen Stuttle]

Thank you Ginny. I already tried Peikoff. I wonder if he waited for this day to happen...and now he hides! You would think that anyone who was with my uncle all those years and admired him would want to talk to the only living relative of his, I would. Peikoff isn't even related and I wanted to talk to him about them, because he was with them. He doesn't know what I agree upon on her views and beliefs to disapprove of me, so what is he afraid of? He knows! Does he come on here...do you think he has read this. And if he has, why doesn't he try to disprove me? I am sure by now he's been told, plus I e-mailed him in Feb. Let me ask you something...I hope no one takes this personally, or gets offended, this is just my thoughts... How can anyone worship a person who commits adultery, had an abortion, and who is Atheist? All the things I do not believe in. How much power does she have???? Let me ask you something again...do I have any legal rights to get into that archive???? ~Cathy~

Re "the only living relative" of Frank's, does that mean you know that Marna and Connie are dead? And I think you mentioned a 70 or so male cousin who's still alive.

As to Peikoff's coming on here and reading stuff, no way, Cathy. For one thing, Peikoff's sight is so bad, he needs large magnification to read at all. For another, a site such as this is beneath notice to Peikoff.

Your e-mailing him doesn't mean he saw or was even told about the email. He must have someone screen his e-mail except maybe on private addresses which only a few know. Unless you've received some kind of response from someone at ARI, I wouldn't be sure anyone there knows of you.

The archives are a privately owned resource, entrance to which is by permission.

--

I'm working on compiling an interview list for Marc. It's taking awhile, speaking of difficulty reading, and I have stuff scheduled for the next couple days, so the project will take longer than I'd anticipated.

Meanwhile, I found a couple references to your uncle Nick having bouts with TB as well as the chronic lung problems resulting from his being gassed in the war.

Ellen

[ginny]

Cathy, be aware most, or a lot, of people here are abortion-supporting atheits who tolerate adultery (the last one is a long story). Most peoplef here aren't that bad, are we? Okay, that being said, Peikoff doesnt HAvE to know your views (although if he did, he wouldnt be pleasant about it. Anyone who doesn't have his point of view is immoral - yes, that would be you). Look, he's damned the Branden to hell, yet he admits to never reading any of their biographies. He couldn't deal with Rand's lack of perfection. He'd fall apart, I'm pretty sure. I mean, you've mentioned how disappointed you are in aunt Agnes because she didn't tell you everthing. Well, multiply that disappointment 10,000 times, and that's how peikoff would feel.

He most definitely doesn't post here or anywhere. Hes king now (the queen is dead, long live the king) and wouldn't stoop to communicating on a site. Someone might disagree with him!!!!! Most objectivist think's he's nuts, anyway. There's a chance someone has informed him of your presence. He would simply dismiss it - another crazy person trying to defile Rand's memory. He wouldn't give it any more thought. You and your problems aren't real to him - only the memory of Rand. Anyway, as to the legal rights, I have no idea, but it might not hurt to ask an attorney. I suspect probably not. Peikoff is sole heir and possessor of the holy grail. But, it never hurts to ask.

[Ellen Stuttle]

The $$$ above the heads indicate the number of posts a poster has made, I think. The number doesn't seem to increase beyond 6.

Ellen

[ginny]

Sorry to be so sarcastic. I just can't stand him, but that's me.

[Cathy]

Thank you Ginny. I already tried Peikoff. I wonder if he waited for this day to happen...and now he hides! You would think that anyone who was with my uncle all those years and admired him would want to talk to the only living relative of his, I would. Peikoff isn't even related and I wanted to talk to him about them, because he was with them. He doesn't know what I agree upon on her views and beliefs to disapprove of me, so what is he afraid of? He knows! Does he come on here...do you think he has read this. And if he has, why doesn't he try to disprove me? I am sure by now he's been told, plus I e-mailed him in Feb. Let me ask you something...I hope no one takes this personally, or gets offended, this is just my thoughts... How can anyone worship a person who commits adultery, had an abortion, and who is Atheist? All the things I do not believe in. How much power does she have???? Let me ask you something again...do I have any legal rights to get into that archive???? ~Cathy~

Re "the only living relative" of Frank's, does that mean you know that Marna and Connie are dead? And I think you mentioned a 70 or so male cousin who's still alive.

As to Peikoff's coming on here and reading stuff, no way, Cathy. For one thing, Peikoff's sight is so bad, he needs large magnification to read at all. For another, a site such as this is beneath notice to Peikoff.

Your e-mailing him doesn't mean he saw or was even told about the email. He must have someone screen his e-mail except maybe on private addresses which only a few know. Unless you've received some kind of response from someone at ARI, I wouldn't be sure anyone there knows of you.

The archives are a privately owned resource, entrance to which is by permission.

--

I'm working on compiling an interview list for Marc. It's taking awhile, speaking of difficulty reading, and I have stuff scheduled for the next couple days, so the project will take longer than I'd anticipated.

Meanwhile, I found a couple references to your uncle Nick having bouts with TB as well as the chronic lung problems resulting from his being gassed in the war.

Ellen

Hi Ginny, I don't believe Connie or Marna are still alive. Denny, my cousin who is still alive is not totally with it. I talked to his nurse. He is well up there in his 70's. My Aunt Agnes told me Uncle Nick died of tuberculosis...see, my memory is right...except for maybe the dates.

[Cathy]

Thank you Ginny. I already tried Peikoff. I wonder if he waited for this day to happen...and now he hides! You would think that anyone who was with my uncle all those years and admired him would want to talk to the only living relative of his, I would. Peikoff isn't even related and I wanted to talk to him about them, because he was with them. He doesn't know what I agree upon on her views and beliefs to disapprove of me, so what is he afraid of? He knows! Does he come on here...do you think he has read this. And if he has, why doesn't he try to disprove me? I am sure by now he's been told, plus I e-mailed him in Feb. Let me ask you something...I hope no one takes this personally, or gets offended, this is just my thoughts... How can anyone worship a person who commits adultery, had an abortion, and who is Atheist? All the things I do not believe in. How much power does she have???? Let me ask you something again...do I have any legal rights to get into that archive???? ~Cathy~

Re "the only living relative" of Frank's, does that mean you know that Marna and Connie are dead? And I think you mentioned a 70 or so male cousin who's still alive.

As to Peikoff's coming on here and reading stuff, no way, Cathy. For one thing, Peikoff's sight is so bad, he needs large magnification to read at all. For another, a site such as this is beneath notice to Peikoff.

Your e-mailing him doesn't mean he saw or was even told about the email. He must have someone screen his e-mail except maybe on private addresses which only a few know. Unless you've received some kind of response from someone at ARI, I wouldn't be sure anyone there knows of you.

The archives are a privately owned resource, entrance to which is by permission.

--

I'm working on compiling an interview list for Marc. It's taking awhile, speaking of difficulty reading, and I have stuff scheduled for the next couple days, so the project will take longer than I'd anticipated.

Meanwhile, I found a couple references to your uncle Nick having bouts with TB as well as the chronic lung problems resulting from his being gassed in the war.

Ellen

Yes, I like a lot of people on here. For smart people you guys are pretty nice to me I am not trying to judge anyone. I've had hard battles in my life, drug use was one of them. I just had to turn my life around and in 1983 I was born again. Believe me, I have no rights to point fingers. Those things are just things I personally don't believe in. But I do believe in choice. Adultery, is not an accident. Atheism I do not know much about. Do they believe in evolution(sp?)then where do cows come from? The bible is a constant. I know sometimes its hard to believe in God, but I trust him. Peikoff has to live with himself...I wonder how he likes it. Thank you Jenny.

[Cathy]

Sorry to be so sarcastic. I just can't stand him, but that's me.