Ukraine and Endless War for Profit

[Peter]

Still searching the word “extinction” and here are a few quotes from a brief portion of a larger thread. This will be the last tonight. Peter

From: "Dennis May" <determinism> Reply-To: Starship_Forum To: Starship_Forum Subject: [Starship_Forum] Re: End of Man Unless... Date: Thu, 18 Oct 2001 13:53:51 -0500 Monart Pon wrote: >In the article, Hawking was quoted as saying, "I don't think the human race will survive the next thousand years unless we spread into space. There are too many accidents that can befall life on a single planet." >The human species has survived many "accidents" and catastrophes in the past, from the World Wars of the last century, to the Plague in medieval Europe, ...It seems arbitrary to suppose that humankind will be destroyed by such catastrophes, rather than to suppose that humankind can survive or avert them.

Mass extinctions have occurred many times in the history of the Earth.  Some of these mass extinctions have yet to be explained.  The extinction of individual species happens all the time, again often without explanation.  It is known that a single species can become extinct in one environment or continent while thriving in another.  Speciation often occurs as a result of separation into different environments over extended periods of time. Confinement to a single niche often results in extinction.  Genetic variation tells us that modern humans were nearly extinct at one time. We have extraordinary little genetic variation compared to other Old World Apes.  This small degree of variability means we are more prone to disease related extinction than many other animals.  Dozens of offshoots of the human family tree are extinct much less the Old World Ape family tree.  We are the survivors, hundred of our cousins didn't survive.  Modern humans have included several racial groups which no longer exist.

Our ability to cure diseases is offset by our ability to create drug resistant strains of disease and bioengineer new diseases.  This doesn't even mention other weapons of mass destruction.

The primary means of averting extinction is niche diversity.  In the case of humans this would mean moving into space [the largest and most diverse niche possible].  The present large numbers of humans is certainly no guarantee.  Passenger pigeons numbered in the billions and would black the sky for days during migrations.

>Besides, is the danger of something wiping out the human race on Earth the main reason for going into space? I, as an individual, if I find that the future of humanity in a thousand years to be irrelevant to my own life now (recall the one and the many), why should I be motivated by that hypothetical danger to go into space?

Niche diversification increases the possibilities for political diversification including the creation of freedom friendly governments or communities.  Civilization confined to the Earth increases the likelihood of a dramatic swing towards collectivism from which civilization might never recover.  How close did the Nazis/Axis come to conquering the world?  How close the communists? How close various religious groups?  What about the fanatics of today?  Every pendulum swing brings us again to the brink of disaster, eventually we won't recover unless it becomes physically impossible for any one group to control all humans [in space].

The question of individual motivations can only be answered by individuals.  Some companies founded in Europe four hundred plus years ago still exist today.  If you were an individual working for such a company you might very well care about the long term vision of the company and its goals much less the big company called humanity.  Short term thinking if applied globally would prevent many large projects from ever occurring.  Space colonization is clearly one of those projects requiring long term thinking and investment.  I could very well die today hitting a deer on the way home from work, I've seen it happen to other people.  I might live to be 100 like my great, great uncle who kept a full time job till he was 93.  Medical and technological advances might extend my age well beyond what people think is reasonable or even possible today.  A single scientific breakthrough could bring disaster or glory to humanity depending on what it is and how it is used.  Those who don't or won't live for the possibilities inherent in long term thinking won't be a part of the rewards should they come before expected or come in unexpected ways.

I have worked on several engineering projects which were continuing improvement projects without a "finish" date.  Others were projects which have been worked on several times over four decades or more and still are not completed.  Difficult problems often must be approached many times before the promise of big rewards becomes real.  There can be many small rewards along the way giving some satisfaction but the promise of a big payoff is the real motivation.

I see the promise of space as very real and tangible. The impediments are primarily political not technological. Minor changes in our political environment in the late 1960's could have lead to hundreds of thousands of people living in space today.  It didn't happen not for lack of technology but a lack of vision.  I become very uncomfortable when I hear people talking about the long term future not affecting them today.  It makes me want to go back to 1968 and spank Nixon for canceling nuclear rocket research.  No long term vision means no future for yourself or anyone else. Dennis May

Dennis May wrote (10/12): ". . . It would be a grave error to assume that everyone in space or everyone with WMD can be reasoned with.  Nomadic technological societies are the only solution I see, I am open to the possibility of other solutions."

Peter Taylor, in response, wrote (10/16): Nomadic existence is necessary only if we know the threat exists. We have no such information now but we certainly need to find out before we go forward or advertise our existence. If the information that alien civilizations do exist, is not available, then the most logical explanation is: they do NOT exist. Nonetheless, we should at least colonize at least one other planet, asap.

Why colonize another planet when we could construct our own artificial planets? The gigantic, country-sized vessels envisioned and designed by physicist Gerald O'Neill (author of _The High Frontier_) are not only earth-like in environmental suitability -- but are more in human control as to gravity, solar radiation, climate, location, and locomotion, than being confined to the surface of a planet, even one as hospital as Earth. There are some who promote the colonization of Mars because it's the planet nearest to Earth's conditions, but the Martian conditions are far more severe than any area on Earth, worse than a combination of Sahara desert and Antarctica.

It's understandable why people today easily think of space settlement in terms of planetary locations, since they were born on and accustomed to living on Earth. But why struggle to escape the gravity-well of a conducive planet like Earth, only to sink down another gravity-well of a nearly airless, waterless, arctic desert like Mars? If we had to live on a planet, we'd be better off staying on Earth. But staying on Earth or eking out a living on Mars, or crammed into space submarines, are not the only types of alternatives. Living in the high frontier of free space within environmental conditions superior to that of Earth -- that's a far more appealing alternative.

See my other writings on this subject, including this post on the archives: <http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Starship_Forum/message/80>

As to Dennis' concerns about space settlements being susceptible to attack by Weapons of Mass Destruction, some answers were discussed in another thread, starting with this one at http://groups.  yahoo.com/group/Starship_Forum/message/101> Besides, a civilization consisting of these free-floating, free-flying space countries could be an excellent example of Dennis' suggestion of having "nomadic technological societies." Monart

[Michael Stuart Kelly]

Very interesting discussion.

Harnwell- Ukraine Foils An Attempt on President Zelensky — But Who Was Really Behind It?

RUMBLE.COM

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Kiev has announced that it foiled a Russian assassination attempt on President Zelensky. But the timing is strange — President Putin would gain nothing in solidifying the West’s resolve against him at

The main takeaways I got from this discussion are as following.

1. The commanders in the Ukrainian armed forces are balking at sending more Ukrainian youth onto the slaughter-fields. The young who are left to be grunts are not trained properly since no arrangements to train them were ever planned for or executed. Doing during the phase where that would have been relevant, all the planners and implementers were more interested in getting their share of the Biden loot. Now they have run out of qualified soldiers and shoving young untrained soldiers out to be slaughters and the Ukrainian commanders are saying enough is enough.

2. At the moment the US Congress is in recess for vacation. So many members of Congress are going over to Ukraine for fact-finding missions--basically they are looking for proof of war gains by Ukraine so they can come back home and shove these gains at their constituents and stay in power while keeping the grift alive. But when they get there and ask to see this or that, they are appalled at the devastation and teetering on the Ukrainian side.

The result is that more and more of them are turning cold on Zelensky and the direct result is that their constituencies are too. And that has bled over to the American public in general going by recent polls (even corrupt establishment polls).

3. There was some kind of recent assassination attempt on Zelensky that he is blaming on Russia. It's more likely this is theater, a false flag event, for Zelensky to gin up some sympathy in the West. Logically it makes no sense for Putin to try to assassinate him. Not at this stage. One of the primary rules of winning wars is this: when your enemy is killing his own side, do nothing. Let him continue.

 

Putin is smart enough at war to know this.

 

Steve Bannon believes that Zelensky will soon learn the lesson that Ngo Dinh Diem did in Vietnam in the 1960s. The US--especially the intelligence community--propped Diem up in South Vietnam, much like they did Zelensky not too long ago.

Instead of doing reforms and other things the US government wanted, Diem declared martial law and caused a backlash that was embarrassing to the US and Deep State at that time. A Buddhist monk set himself on fire in the middle of a city, there was a growing coup, and so on.

So the Deep State collaborated with a bunch of South Vietnamese generals and this happened:

Steve thinks this is the future of Zelensky before too long. It will not be the Russians who will take out Zelensky. It will be his own armed forces with the backstage prompting and support of the Deep State, mainly the US Deep State.

Zelensky has served his purpose. It's starting to be hard to keep the gravy train rolling. And in the new context, there are a lot of other ways for money to be made by insiders with the Ukraine-Russia hostilities. But Zelensky is now in the way.

Just like what happened with Diem and the ensuing Vietnam war. Note that President John Kennedy was assassinated not too long after Diem was. Kennedy was also gumming up the money works for this Deep State opportunity. And the opportunity window would not last forever.

But they blew him away and, man, did the good times roll for several years in the military-industrial complex as young Americans and Vietnamese of all sorts got butchered. Guns and butter, baby...

The insiders made a killing...

 

Today, it's a different story, but it's always the same old story.

Now coming to a Slavic country near you, er.. I mean near Russia.

 

Michael

[Michael Stuart Kelly]

Here is one of the reasons--an important one outside of the normal things like grift and endless war for profit--why I have been against US involvement in the war in Ukraine from the beginning.

Unfrigging believable.

U.S. General Confronted For Overthrowing 11 African Governments Since 2008

WWW.BITCHUTE.COM

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The United States has for decades been committed to educating military leaders from developing nations — so that those military leaders can then return to their countries and stage violent coups. When GOP...

Let's call it a "core values" thing.

Leave it to Matt Gaetz to make a US General sound like a doofus and wind-up talking toy.

 

Michael

[Michael Stuart Kelly]

The US government is hiring literal Nazis to go fight in the Ukraine war and kill civilians.

Kill civilians.

US taxpayer money.

I hope Laura Loomer does not get assassinated by the Deep State.

Here is the text of Laura's report if you do not want to go to X to read it.

Quote

I have conducted an investigation and I believe that for the sake of National Security, public interest and now my own personal safety I need to immediately release and publish what I have uncovered about the United States Government’s involvement in recruiting violent American Nazis, White Supremacists, and domestic terrorists and turning them into mercenaries and confidential informants in Ukraine to fight against Russians and kill civilians. 

Upon their return to the US, some of these Nazis are now engaging in perpetuating hate crimes and other felonies in the US, and they appear to be protected by our government from serving prison time, have received delayed prison time, and even reduced prison time. 

As many of you saw, this weekend I stumbled upon a Nazi rally in Altamonte Springs, #Florida where I encountered 50 Swastika flag waving #Nazis affiliated with “Blood Tribe” and “Goyim Defense League” (GDL). 

One of the individuals in attendance who I filmed at this rally on 9/2/23 is a US Citizen and Nazi named Kent “BoneFace” McLellan. At the rally, he was Seig Heiling while screaming SLAVA UKRAINE. His whole entire body and face is covered in tattoos, including many Nazi tattoos. 

As I have exposed, he is a Nazi who has traveled abroad to Ukraine to fight in the Ukraine-Russia war. He is an American citizen who was recently given Ukraine citizenship. 

I have overwhelming evidence that Nazis who are being backed by our government have not only murdered civilians overseas, but they have also been engaged in war crimes. In the case of Kent “BoneFace” McLellan, who resides in Florida, he is a Nazi, a domestic terrorist, and a violent felon who was arrested in Florida in 2012 by the FBI. He was put on the US terror watch list, and then in 2014, he was recruited by the CIA, and the DOD reportedly paid for him to travel to Ukraine in 2014 to join “Right Sector”, and then the Nazi Azov Battalion in 2022, which our taxpayer dollars are now unfortunately funding. 

Upon his return to the US circa 2022, I have discovered via my investigation that McLellan received a US Army Expeditionary Medal for his “services” in Ukraine. My investigation has uncovered 
Social media posts he posted in which he posed for a picture, in Ukraine while wearing an Azov Battalion uniform, next to the dead body of a civilian. The image, which I sent to a forensic analyst for verification, has been authenticated. 

Why is the 
@JoeBiden
 Regime funding Nazi death squads in Ukraine with US taxpayer dollars? 

I received a phone call from Kent BoneFace McLellan at 1am last night after someone leaked my personal cell phone number to him, and after he was seen saying “we have a visual on Loomer” on a HAM radio he is not licensed to operate. He published that video to his Twitter account and tagged me. 

During the phone call I had with McLellan last night, he gave me confessions of various crimes.  

Here is the evidence of what our US government is doing in #Ukraine. These are WAR CRIMES. 

I have a responsibility to share this damning information I have uncovered with the world. 

@FBI / @CIA / @DHSgov / @realDonaldTrump / #NazisForBiden

 

General Mike Flynn weighed in on this.

Laura is kicking ass.

 

May she stay safe.

Michael

[Michael Stuart Kelly]

I stand in awe. And I am not being ironic.

Alex Jones is interviewed by Vladimir Soloviev in a manner that, I believe, is going to cause a major political disruption within the Predator Class and with the direction the Ukraine war will be taking soon.

Vladimir Soloviev has an audience of 50 million people in Russia. He speaks for the Russian people, not the Russian government. Just like Alex speaks for the American people (especially of a MAGA bent), not for the American Predator Class political rulers.

Alex and Vladimir both want the same things.

Vladimir even told Alex during the interview, after Alex said he wanted to learn more about Russia, come stay at his house. He would want for nothing. And this want's said like politicians do. This was said like a friend.

The world would be a lot better off if these two did the politics, not the politicians.

I'm posting the repost by Lee Stranahan, a guy I like. That's why the views are not so high. But this post on Vladimir's X account has a helluva lot more, which is not bad for a Russian.  

 

Neither Ales nor Vladimir like Nazis.

Fine with me. I don't either.

Watch this interview and pay attention to your jaw as it slowly falls open as Vladimir talks about American freedom as something he admires. And asks Alex, what the hell happened to America?

 

I hope Alex will not be hurt by Deep State goons over this...

Michael

[Michael Stuart Kelly]

To be clear, when I see that interview, I cannot tell you the feeling this brings to mind of how much I despise the Predator Class.

And note, this has nothing to do with Russia or Ukraine. If Alex were talking to a person who represented the Ukrainian people and not the Nazis or Predators (including American Predators)  governing that country, I would feel this same emotion.

I have nothing in common with the Predator Class anywhere.

I have much in common with people everywhere who want to live productive lives in peace among their loved ones and do not aspire to control others. There are countless people like that in Russia, in Ukraine, in America, in all countries of the world (including China and North Korea, etc.).

Hell, there are even people like that in Canada and South Africa.  

Michael

[Michael Stuart Kelly]

Tucker believes there is a hot war with Russia coming this year.

The reason is that this will allow the people in power to declare a war powers act and use the US armed forces to get rid of Trump so they can stay in power.

Tucker Carlson: “What's Coming Is WORSE Than WW3”

WWW.BITCHUTE.COM

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Tucker Carlson: “What's Coming Is WORSE Than WW3” Trump/patriot-friendly free speech social media & video sites... - https://xephula.com/blogs/406213/Trump-patriot-friendly-free-speech-social-media-video-sites-list

My favorite quote by Tucker in this compilation, though, has nothing to do with Ukraine or Russia.

It is the following (at 5:38):

TUCKER: "I'm definitely not in favor of destroying things. I really see the world as binary at this point.

There are people who create and nurture and there are those who deface and destroy. It's really, there're only two varieties of people. It's dualism.

And I want to be on the side that creates and nurtures, that makes things, that improves things, that leaves things for future generations. 

That sounds high-minded, but I really believe it."

That is the most Randian statement I ever heard coming from a mainstream news celebrity. What's more, this was in Tucker's own words, not Rand's.

 

Michael

[Peter]

Imprimis, a Publication of Hillsdale College, had an article that said The United States has 600 military facilities around the globe. I haven’t read it all yet but I saw at the beginning the author was discussing the meaning of the word Imperialism. I know we are spread all over for our own interests but we are also protecting other countries and people.

And I saw on the news that actor Sean Penn had made a documentary about the war in Ukraine. He has made seven visits there, offering his support for Ukraine. Ukraine‘s President. Zelenskyy and Penn hit it off because of their ties to comedy and acting. Peter  

From Wikipedia: Volodymyr Oleksandrovych Zelenskyy^[a] (also romanized as Zelensky or Zelenskiy;^[b] born 25 January 1978) is a Ukrainian politician who has been serving as the sixth president of Ukraine since 2019. He was formerly a comedian and actor.

Born to a Ukrainian Jewish family, Zelenskyy grew up as a native Russian speaker in Kryvyi Rih, a major city of Dnipropetrovsk Oblast in central Ukraine. Prior to his acting career, he obtained a degree in law from the Kyiv National Economic University. He then pursued a career in comedy and created the production company Kvartal 95, which produced films, cartoons, and TV shows including the TV series Servant of the People, in which Zelenskyy played a fictional Ukrainian president. The series aired from 2015 to 2019 and was immensely popular. A political party with the same name as the TV show was created in March 2018 by employees of Kvartal 95.

[tmj]

Re US military facilities around the globe with an eye to whom the “we” might more narrowly specify along with their (our) interests is the curious career and actions of one the most decorated Marine officers in US history Gen Smedley Butler. 
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Smedley_Butler

Granted given the obvious caveats about Wikipedia it’s a good start.

[Peter]

2 hours ago, tmj said:

the curious career and actions of one the most decorated Marine officers in US history Gen Smedley Butler. 

That is an extraordinary entry in Wikipedia tmj. Thanks. In a sense we have never changed our military outlook on the world . . . and that is mostly a good thing for us and our allies and for neutrals. We have saved the world a lot of heart ache.

But the expense has been enormous for America. Maintaining 600 military facilities around the globe must cost billions.

My first hand experience has been to live with my military parents and siblings in Norfolk, Virginia, San Diego, Quonset Point Rhode Island, fourteen other bases in California, and Pearl Harbor in Hawaii, and Sasebo, in Japan. And in the active military I was in South Korea. I can't say I have the experience of General Butler but I have some sense of the evil in the world from my experiences that match some of his. And I too, wonder about how extended does America want to become, protecting the world while we lose billions in tax dollars and go deeper into debt?

     

[tmj]

Peter did you see that Smedley Butler spent his post military time going around the country trying to convince the citizenry that US foreign policy and war were policies driven by corporate interests and the soldiery was mere cannon fodder? He basically said he fought and conquered as the muscle of US corporations.

[Marc]

24 minutes ago, tmj said:

Peter did you see that Smedley Butler spent his post military time going around the country trying to convince the citizenry that US foreign policy and war were policies driven by corporate interests and the soldiery was mere cannon fodder? He basically said he fought and conquered as the muscle of US corporations.

Hence why they all hate Trump who does not want to trade the lives of our children for corporate profits and payoffs.

 

[Michael Stuart Kelly]

As an addition to the corporate angle, there is one for the Ukraine situation, too, that does not directly involve supplying the military or laundering money. 

Oil. Shale oil.

The Donbas has the shale and the western oil companies want it.

 

Something makes sense, now. I always wondered why the Ukraine government (after 2014) constantly bombed the Donbas region of its own country during peace time.

Now the penny drops.

They wanted all those Russian speaking Ukrainians to move away from the oil-rich fields so they could put their own people there. Sort of like what the US government did to the Indians in the 1800s.

Michael

[tmj]

When the market for petroleum was first realized the money was in acquiring it first and bringing it to market it. After the market was/is now firmly established , I think the long play in game theoretics in an ultimately finite commodity market is to be the ‘last’ one to provide it. The guys with the biggest piles would probably like to have the guys with smaller piles sell all theirs first , or acquire them and sell them , kinda like ‘don’t get high on your supply’.

[Peter]

13 hours ago, tmj said:

The guys with the biggest piles would probably like to have the guys with smaller piles sell all theirs first

Saudi Arabia cut production, and of course Biden stopped construction of the Keystone Pipeline his first day in office. Biden-omics wants America to "go electric" but I have heard stories about people with electric cars having a rough time recharging if they travel. I will stick with gas powered engines for now. Let others "experiment" with electric.

[Michael Stuart Kelly]

The bad guys (Deep State) have botched this Ukraine war so badly, Jack Posobiec and a bunch of other Americans were put on an official assassination list in Ukraine for writing about the war in a way that contradicts the propaganda. 

BREAKING: Jack Posobiec Added To Ukrainian “Myrotvorets” Hitlist For Reporting

RUMBLE.COM

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BREAKING: Jack Posobiec Added To Ukrainian “Myrotvorets” Hitlist For Reporting

 

But wait! There's more!

You can't make this up.

The person they are using to announce the assassination threats against American citizens is an American transgender freak from the northern part of Florida who is now in Ukraine. (Basically a failed Democrat politician.)

 

 

I like the name "freak" for these people. Steve Bannon has started calling them freaks and I am going to adopt this nomenclature.  

 

Wait until the Russians see Zelensky's American funded Drag Queen anti-tank missile brigade. The Russian bear will tremble in its boots.

 

 

I make quips, but when I think of all that needless killing promoted by the Deep State, I get furious.

 

btw - Expect to see fireworks. Zelenskly is over here begging for more money and I don't think he is going to get it.

According to Poso, the Deep State has had enough of him for a simple reason. America is going into an election season and a failed war with all those American tax-funded billions is poison to their candidates. Also, it is finally coming out--from official sources--that there is an enormous market in Ukraine for child sex trafficking and organ harvesting. For anyone who looks, it all has the Deep State's fingerprints on it.

Poso thinks the Nazi Azon battalion along with Ukraine's own Deep State intelligence services are going to take out Zelensky.

That sounds about right.

Criminal gangs kill weak leaders.

Michael

[Michael Stuart Kelly]

7 minutes ago, Michael Stuart Kelly said:

... it is finally coming out--from official sources--that there is an enormous market in Ukraine for child sex trafficking and organ harvesting. For anyone who looks, it all has the Deep State's fingerprints on it.

Wanna hear it from the horse's mouth?

VIDEO LEAK: Arrested child trafficker admits to boarding school used as front for organ harvesting network in Ukraine

HUMANEVENTS.COM

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“If twenty-five children were taken out, only twenty-three were returned…”

And America pays for this shit to exist, covering it in a smokescreen of war slogans.

Aargh!...

Michael

[Michael Stuart Kelly]

On 9/19/2023 at 3:45 PM, Michael Stuart Kelly said:

The person they are using to announce the assassination threats against American citizens is an American transgender freak from the northern part of Florida who is now in Ukraine. (Basically a failed Democrat politician.)

The freak got fired.

Good.

Ukraine's Transgender Spokesperson Suspended by Military, Zelensky Claims No Knowledge

WWW.BREITBART.COM

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The Ukrainian military announced that it has suspended controversial transgender spokesperson Sarah Ashton-Cirillo for allegedly making unapproved statements on social media.

 

The backlash was too much to sustain.

Michael

[Michael Stuart Kelly]

At least it is under a billion this time.

We're getting there.

Lots of grifters gonna be furious, though.

Michael

[Michael Stuart Kelly]

Seymour Hersh is not amused.

Seymour Hersh: “It’s All Lies. The War is Over. Russia has Won." | The Gateway Pundit | by Richard Abelson

WWW.THEGATEWAYPUNDIT.COM

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  As the anniversary of the purported Biden Regime sabotage of the Nord Stream pipeline approaches Sept.

 

Read this, then reread the sheer amount of pro-Ukraine anti-Putin/Russia propaganda (as illusion, not as reality) promoted by the mainstream and discussed since the beginning of this thread.

Talk about an exercise in pure bullshit.

 

 

That's all dust in the wind now.

The thing that got left over is not wind though.

For the USA (the people, not the cronies), the thing left over is debt.

Real massive debt someone is going to have to pay.

As for all those dead innocent civilians, as the mafia boss says, that's just the cost of doing business. Too bad for them. Livestock exist to be slaughtered...

Michael

[anthony]

 

[Marc]

Che Guevera opps I mean Zelensky is in Toronto with Trudeau!

[Michael Stuart Kelly]

Canada reminds me of a saying in Brazil.

In rural areas down there, they say that they will hand over a steer to avoid getting into a fight. But once in a fight, they will hand over the entire herd to stay there.

 

I am very proud of these Canadian protestors. 

Michael

[Marc]

Wrong thread but replying to the last post. 

[Marc]

Every single Canadian MP stood and clapped.

They own the control centre but they cannot and will never take our streets.