Marc Posted December 9, 2015 Share Posted December 9, 2015 One mistake ( and yes MSK my beloved leader ) only 1 mistake so I really am not too interested in hearing about how invincible he is . One wrong word , one idiotic bullshit thing to say . One . Next day , the real time polls show him not up 19-3 , but down 24- 19 . Marc,Heh.One wrong word?One?How is that any different than what people have been saying since July?Let's choose a word, shall we? How about the politicians he bribed comment, the immigration "rapist and murderer" comment, the border wall comment, the McCain "captured" comment, the vaccination and autism comment, the Megyn Kelly "blood" comment, the Carly Fiorina "face" comment, the Ben Carson "child molester" comment, the bomb the shit out of ISIS oil fields comment, the mocking the handicapped reporter comment?Shall I go on? I'm looking at a particular crow in my murder, thinking, how shall I barbecue thee? Let me count the ways. Like Rush Limbaugh says, the media did not make Donald Trump so the media will not be able to take him out. He has an authentic connection to his supporters, not a media-manipulated one.For the record, here's a prediction. I believe the polling will dip after this Muslim kerfuffle. This will probably happen because:1. The establishment manipulates polling enough to distort one round (but only one round, then it has to back off for credibility of the polls themselves), and 2. The manipulated poll will happen before Trump's idea settles and contrasts against the moral grayness bandwagon that is erupting right now.And here's the second part of that prediction. The next round of polling, after the manipulated poll, will show support rising even higher for Trump than right now. And his crowds will continue to get bigger at his rallies.I'm merely basing this on the patterns I have seen so far.MichaelI hear you , just the fact is that you could quote 10 or so , or even 100 or so makes no difference . The issue is the one thing that he will say , that someone will show , that folks will do , that blah blah blah . I cannot say what its gonna be or when its gonna be but its gonna be . This is new , this has got to be unprecedented but the fact remains that this does not happen , and has not happened and will not happen . The establishment is going to win this . Not saying what I want . Saying what I believe .Trump would probably make - a brilliant political strategist obviously . He plays their game different , I love it . I love his brilliance but POTUS ??????????????ZERO chance . Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marc Posted December 9, 2015 Share Posted December 9, 2015 Here's the deal.The media has been the henchman of the war-profiteering DemoPublican establishment for so long, look what it's gotten us.Wars and terror on our shores.Look at how Trump has made his money.No war profits.So who am I going to believe in a clutch?Hellooooooooooooo...MichaelThis is exactly the point !!!!!!!!!!!! He is running against the DemoPublicans , and the media !!!!! Yep , he has " the numbers " today but today and the "numbers " get you what ??? All the real money is still on the sidelines . Wait till he has to fight that too .Then its time to bring the fat lady in to sing , so to speak Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Selene Posted December 9, 2015 Share Posted December 9, 2015 Marc:The odds are still heavily in your favor.A serious question. If The Donald gets past super Tuesday with enough delegates to block the other two (2) remaining contenders from the nomination and appears to head to the convention with 45% of the delegates, what can money do to stop him?A... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marc Posted December 9, 2015 Share Posted December 9, 2015 Marc:The odds are still heavily in your favor.A serious question. If The Donald gets past super Tuesday with enough delegates to block the other two (2) remaining contenders from the nomination and appears to head to the convention with 45% of the delegates, what can money do to stop him?A...At that point , not too much methinks except any dirty tricks that they all can pull off but I know nothing about those rules , possibilities or whatever and don't care too much either . Your question though reminds of the cliche " If my mother had had wheels , she would have been a bus " , Or " if ifs and buts were candies and nuts , we'd all have a Marry Xmas "So , my answer is - they will get him before then . Plus , he gets to be the King maker , thats a pretty good coup , he gets a say in policy and to boot he actually has changed US politics !!!!!!!!! A win !!!!!!!!!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Selene Posted December 9, 2015 Share Posted December 9, 2015 Marc:The odds are still heavily in your favor.A serious question. If The Donald gets past super Tuesday with enough delegates to block the other two (2) remaining contenders from the nomination and appears to head to the convention with 45% of the delegates, what can money do to stop him?A...At that point , not too much methinks except any dirty tricks that they all can pull off but I know nothing about those rules , possibilities or whatever and don't care too much either . Your question though reminds of the cliche " If my mother had had wheels , she would have been a bus " , Or " if ifs and buts were candies and nuts , we'd all have a Marry Xmas "So , my answer is - they will get him before then . Plus , he gets to be the King maker , thats a pretty good coup , he gets a say in policy and to boot he actually has changed US politics !!!!!!!!! A win !!!!!!!!!!I can see him writing the story that way.They do have to get him before then, we agree on that.How does money "get him" before that?A... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Selene Posted December 9, 2015 Share Posted December 9, 2015 An FYI:Good ole Jimmeeee...Executive Order 12211 - Sanctions Against IranApril 17, 1980Public Papers of the PresidentsJimmy Carter 1980-81: Book IJimmy Carter1980-81: Book IThe American Presidency ProjectFURTHER PROHIBITIONS ON TRANSACTIONS WITH IRANBy the authority vested in me as President by the Constitution and statutes of the United States, including Section 203 of the International Emergency Economic Powers Act (50 U.S.C. 1702), Section 301 of Title 3 of the United States Code, Sections 1732 and 2656 of Title 22 of the United States Code, and Section 301 of the National Emergencies Act (50 U.S.C. 1631), in order to take steps additional to those set forth in Executive Order No. 12170 of November 14, 1979, and Executive Order No. 12205 of April 7, 1980, to deal with the threat to the national security, foreign policy and economy of the United States referred to in those Orders, and the added unusual and extraordinary threat to the national security, foreign policy and economy of the United States created by subsequent events in Iran and neighboring countries, including the Soviet invasion of Afghanistan, with respect to which I hereby declare a national emergency, and to carry out the policy of the United States to deny the use of its resources to aid, encourage or give sanctuary to those persons involved in directing, supporting or participating in acts of international terrorism, it is hereby ordered as follows:1-101. Paragraph 1-101 (d) of Executive Order No. 12205 is hereby amended by the addition of a new subparagraph (v) as follows:(v) Make any payment, transfer of credit, or other transfer of funds or other property or interests therein, except for purposes of family remittances.1-102. The following transactions are prohibited, notwithstanding any contracts entered into or licenses granted before the date of this Order:(a) Effective immediately, the direct or indirect import from Iran into the United States of Iranian goods or services, other than materials imported for news publication or news broadcast dissemination.(b) Effective immediately, any transactions with a foreign person or foreign entity by any citizen or permanent resident of the United States relating to that person's travel to Iran after the date of this Order.© Effective seven days from the date of this Order, the payment by or on behalf of any citizen or permanent resident of the United States who is within Iran of any expenses for transactions within Iran.The prohibitions in paragraphs (b) and © of this section shall not apply to a person who is also a citizen of Iran and those prohibitions and the prohibitions in section 1-101 shall not apply to a journalist or other person who is regularly employed by a news gathering or transmitting organization and who travels to Iran or is within Iran for the purpose of gathering or transmitting news, making news or documentary films, or similar activities.1-103. The Secretary of the Treasury is hereby directed, effective fourteen days from the date of this Order, to revoke existing licenses for transactions by persons subject to the jurisdiction of the United States with Iran Air, the National Iranian Oil Company, and the National Iranian Gas Company previously issued pursuant to regulations under Executive Order No. 12170 or Executive Order No. 12205.1-104. The Secretary of the Treasury is delegated, and authorized to exercise, all functions vested in the President by the International Emergency Economic Powers Act (50 U.S.C. 1701 et seq.) to carry out the purposes of this Order. The Secretary may redelegate any of these functions to other officers and agencies of the Federal government.1-105. The Secretary of the Treasury shall ensure that actions taken by him pursuant to the above provisions of this Order, Executive Order No. 12170 and Executive Order No. 12205 are accounted for as required by Section 401 of the National Emergencies Act (50 U.S.C. 1641).1-106. The Secretary of State is delegated, and authorized to exercise in furtherance of the purposes of this Order, the powers vested in the President by Section 2001 of the Revised Statutes (22 U.S.C. 1732), Section 1 of the Act of July 3, 1926 (22 U.S.C. 211a), and Section 215 of the Immigration and Nationality Act (8 U.S.C. 1185), with respect to:(a) the restriction of the use of United States passports for travel to, in or through Iran; and(b) the regulation of departures from and entry into the United States in connection with travel to Iran by citizens and permanent residents of the United States.1-107. Except as otherwise indicated herein, this Order is effective immediately. In accord with Section 401 of the National Emergencies Act (50 U.S.C. 1641) and Section 204 of the International Emergency Economic Powers Act (50 U.S.C. 1703), it shall be immediately transmitted to the Congress and published in the FEDERAL REGISTER.JIMMY CARTERhttp://www.presidency.ucsb.edu/ws/index.php?pid=33289My my, guess it is not unconstitutional...Guess it is within the statute...Guess lots of powers exist to do precisely what The Donald stated should be done.Peter astutely noted that Senator Paul had proposed an amendment to a bill in the Senate last week which was a modification of The Donald's "Muslim" temporary pause.Andrew C. McCarthy, who prosecuted the blind Sheik Omar Abdel Rahman and eleven others for the 1993 bombing of the World Trade Center studiously read the Koran in prep for examining the alleged terrorists on the stand.He discovered that Islam/Sharia blend is not a "religion" per se, it is a theocratic statism that is incompatible with American Constitutional law.Some Muslims come to the United States to practice their religion peacefully, and assimilate into the Western tradition of tolerance of other people’s liberties, including religious liberty — a tradition alien to the theocratic societies in which they grew up. Others come here to champion sharia, Islam’s authoritarian societal framework and legal code, resisting assimilation into our pluralistic society.Since we want to both honor religious liberty and preserve the Constitution that enshrines and protects it, we have a dilemma.Read more at: http://www.nationalreview.com/article/428201/donald-trump-muslim-immigration-policy-discussion?target=author&tid=900151Full disclosure, I have a lot of respect for McCarthy and he has endorsed Senator Cruz which I am also fine with. His analysis of the Islamic/Sharia segment of Islam is profound.The assumption that is central to this dilemma — the one that Trump has stumbled on and that Washington refuses to examine — is that Islam is merely a religion. If that’s true, then it is likely that religious liberty will trump constitutional and national-security concerns. How, after all, can a mere religion be a threat to a constitutional system dedicated to religious liberty?But Islam is no mere religion.This is key:As understood by the mainstream of Muslim-majority countries that are the source of immigration to America and the West, Islam is a comprehensive ideological system that governs all human affairs, from political, economic, and military matters to interpersonal relations and even hygiene. It is beyond dispute that Islam has religious tenets — the oneness of Allah, the belief that Mohammed is the final prophet, the obligation of ritual prayer. Yet these make up only a fraction of what is overwhelmingly a political ideology.A theocracy is so different from what Americans are used to that they misunderstand the Islam/Sharia as merely a religion.Our constitutional principle of religious liberty is derived from the Western concept that the spiritual realm should be separate from civic and political life. The concept flows from the New Testament injunction to render unto Caesar what is Caesar’s and unto God what is God’s.Excellent mind here.A... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Selene Posted December 9, 2015 Share Posted December 9, 2015 I was waiting for this comparison:...to the anti-Semitic diatribes of the radio preacher Charles Coughlin during the 1930s.I do not think there are many here who are familiar with "Father Coughlin."To identify him as a "preacher" shows how clueless these "reporters" are today. <<<< This dude look like a "preacher?"His radio addresses began to communicate a more political message in January 1930, when he began a series of attacks against socialism and Soviet Communism. He also criticized the capitalists in America whose greed had made Communist ideology attractive to many Americans.[6] He warned, "Let not the workingman be able to say that he is driven into the ranks of socialism by the inordinate and grasping greed of the manufacturer."[7] Having gained a reputation as an outspoken anti-Communist, in July 1930 he was given star billing as a witness before the House Committee to Investigate Communist Activities.[8]In 1931 the CBS radio network dropped free sponsorship after Coughlin refused to accept network demands that his scripts be reviewed prior to broadcast, so he raised money to create his own national linkup, which soon reached millions of listeners on a 36-station hookup.Sound like a racist to you?He strongly endorsed Franklin D. Roosevelt during the 1932 Presidential election. He was an early supporter of Roosevelt's New Deal reforms and coined the phrase "Roosevelt or Ruin", which became famous during the early days of the first FDR administration. Another phrase he became known for was "The New Deal is Christ's Deal."[9] In January 1934, Coughlin testified before Congress in support of FDR's policies, saying, "If Congress fails to back up the President in his monetary program, I predict a revolution in this country which will make the French Revolution look silly!" He further stated to the Congressional hearing, "God is directing President Roosevelt."[10]Then he started being a semi-Bernie Sanders...Coughlin's support for Roosevelt and his New Deal faded later in 1934, when he founded the National Union for Social Justice (NUSJ), a nationalistic worker's rights organization which grew impatient with what it viewed as the President's unconstitutional and pseudo-capitalistic monetary policies. His radio programs preached more and more about the negative influence of "money changers" and "permitting a group of private citizens to create money" at the expense of the general welfare of the public.[11] He also spoke about the need for monetary reform based on "free silver". Coughlin claimed that the Great Depression in the United States was a "cash famine". Coughlin proposed monetary reforms, including the nationalization of the Federal Reserve System, as the solution.And more...Among the NUSJ's articles of faith were work and income guarantees, nationalizing necessary industry, wealth redistribution through taxation of the wealthy, federal protection of workers' unions, and decreasing property rights in favor of the government controlling the country's assets for public good.[12] Illustrative of his disdain for free market capitalism is his statement We maintain the principle that there can be no lasting prosperity if free competition exists in industry. Therefore, it is the business of government not only to legislate for a minimum annual wage and maximum working schedule to be observed by industry, but also to curtail individualism that, if necessary, factories shall be licensed and their output shall be limited.[13]Finally, the Fascist in waiting emerged:Coughlin promoted his controversial beliefs by means of his radio broadcasts and his weekly rotogravure magazine, Social Justice, which began publication in March 1936.[29] During the last half of 1938, Social Justice reprinted in weekly installments the fraudulent, antisemitic text The Protocols of the Elders of Zion.[30] The Protocols was a Russian forgery that purports to expose a Jewish conspiracy to seize control of the world.[31]So the Washington Post figures in their childish minds that The Donald uses the media and Father Coughlin used the media therefore The Donald is a racist too...https://www.washingtonpost.com/politics/along-with-trumps-rhetoric-the-stakes-for-2016-have-risen-dramatically/2015/12/08/43e64592-9dd8-11e5-a3c5-c77f2cc5a43c_story.htmlAmazing...https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Charles_Coughlin Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wolf DeVoon Posted December 9, 2015 Share Posted December 9, 2015 Marc:The odds are still heavily in your favor.A serious question. If The Donald gets past super Tuesday with enough delegates to block the other two (2) remaining contenders from the nomination and appears to head to the convention with 45% of the delegates, what can money do to stop him?A...Speaking of money, who could stop him if he decides to start spending his own money, say a billion or two? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marc Posted December 9, 2015 Share Posted December 9, 2015 Marc:The odds are still heavily in your favor.A serious question. If The Donald gets past super Tuesday with enough delegates to block the other two (2) remaining contenders from the nomination and appears to head to the convention with 45% of the delegates, what can money do to stop him?A...Curious how you wrote that the odds are heavily in my favour . The inaccurate polls dictate that that the odds are in your favour , no kind sir ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marc Posted December 9, 2015 Share Posted December 9, 2015 Marc:The odds are still heavily in your favor.A serious question. If The Donald gets past super Tuesday with enough delegates to block the other two (2) remaining contenders from the nomination and appears to head to the convention with 45% of the delegates, what can money do to stop him?A...Speaking of money, who could stop him if he decides to start spending his own money, say a billion or two?Well , first of all - there is a dude down in Vegas who has a net worth of 27 billion and buys senators , congressmen and congresswomen and Presidents and VPs and policy all day long year after year . Trump aint putting a billion or two into this and there is a lot of huge money that is going to come in regardless and back Rubio or whoever takes the lead from DT . These dudes are all real savvy and they will wait for their spots . Trump did not make all his money so effortlessly that he will throw it away . I am very confident that Trump could raise whatever he wants whenever he wants cause he is freaking brilliant , he understands the game and the game is is that he has no desire to push his net worth down , he wants it to go up . Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brant Gaede Posted December 9, 2015 Share Posted December 9, 2015 I don't think Trump's money would turbo charge his candidacy. It could ruin it. And 2 - 3 billion? That would virtually wipe him out. It's not all that liquid anyway.Ted Cruz is a super smart neo-con. Just what the world needs???????????????????????? Under the surface Trump seems more reasonable as in working things out. Cruz has already got it all worked out and it won't be changed much. If he bumps into reality he'll recreate it according to his "metaphysical value judgments."If he becomes President, I predict Cruz will weaken Israel by supporting Israel too much. That support could turn into crutches. The crutches could make a cripple.--Brantthey all scare me for various reasons--Hilliary--the PIAPS--scares me the most Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marc Posted December 9, 2015 Share Posted December 9, 2015 Marc:The odds are still heavily in your favor.A serious question. If The Donald gets past super Tuesday with enough delegates to block the other two (2) remaining contenders from the nomination and appears to head to the convention with 45% of the delegates, what can money do to stop him?A...At that point , not too much methinks except any dirty tricks that they all can pull off but I know nothing about those rules , possibilities or whatever and don't care too much either . Your question though reminds of the cliche " If my mother had had wheels , she would have been a bus " , Or " if ifs and buts were candies and nuts , we'd all have a Marry Xmas "So , my answer is - they will get him before then . Plus , he gets to be the King maker , thats a pretty good coup , he gets a say in policy and to boot he actually has changed US politics !!!!!!!!! A win !!!!!!!!!!I can see him writing the story that way.They do have to get him before then, we agree on that.How does money "get him" before that?A...Look , if I was a political strategist I could tell you exactly how . My feeling though is when one decides to take on the entire establishment ( and God love him for that !!!!!!!! I am the most anti establishment person ever !!!!!!!!!!!! I believe in " We The People " with all my soul ) then I see that it will be a very big struggle . I am talking about a struggle as in a revolution . I believe that DT is a revolutionary in a sense , and once again - I love him for that . Note the word LOVE . Do I believe he will pull off an actual coup ????? Against the entire establishment , all the money that funds said establishment ( which has a much higher aggregate amount that DT , obviously ) . Will the establishment kneel down and kiss Trumps feet ? Well , Trump has support , no question ! Our fearless and very accurate leader MSK shows the pictures of the rallys all over , sheesh - these are almost Obama-esque in nature . Obama though lead the Democratic party , so he had a base , had the support , had his 20 or so states guaranteed . Trump has crowds .Trump has money . Trump has huge brains and larger stones too . DT is an angry motherfucker ( And I say that while I revere his style , his moxie , his true true and very true desire for change ) who really wants change . How does he institute change ? By doing EXACTLY what he is doing .As I said very early on on this brilliant , amazing and enjoyable and thought provoking thread - DT don't wanna be President .He wants to be DT .He wants change .He wants to be a deal maker ( he is ! ) He wants to in effect put his man , or his woman in the Whitehouse . God Bless him , he shall do that ! Thats his game . Folks here are in hook , line and sinker for the bluff . Sheese , seems like every every citizen in the US has bit on his bait . Even Trump somedays probably thinks , maybe I will be President .Thing is , is that he has no desire to sit in that chair at 70 years old . Never has that been his game , why would it be . Now Sheldon Adelson gets to control a lot of US policy from his chair in Vegas , in his hotel where Senators come to see him to kiss his ring . Thats the real game my friends .Sheldon knows this . Donald knows this . Respectfully to all my friends here , I think that this is what folks here are missing .Does DT want to go to war against EVERYONE in the game .I mean for God sake , DT is way way way too brilliant to go to war against the Dems , the Repubs , the Senators , Congress and all the money backing all of them . If they let DT win , the gig is up and then these Government employees are actually going to have to work !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!Thats the issue , thats the reason why a black swan will appear . Who cares what the swan is . DT has already won more than even he wanted in my estimation . Now its all house money . He gets to pick the next President , and he don't want it to be him .God Bless ! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marc Posted December 9, 2015 Share Posted December 9, 2015 I don't think Trump's money would turbo charge his candidacy. It could ruin it. And 2 - 3 billion? That would virtually wipe him out. It's not all that liquid anyway.Ted Cruz is a super smart neo-con. Just what the world needs???????????????????????? Under the surface Trump seems more reasonable as in working things out. Cruz has already got it all worked out and it won't be changed much. If he bumps into reality he'll recreate it according to his "metaphysical value judgments."If he becomes President, I predict Cruz will weaken Israel by supporting Israel too much. That support could turn into crutches. The crutches could make a cripple.--Brantthe all scare me for various reasons--Hilliary--the PIAPS--scares me the mostSo very true on every point ~~~~~ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marc Posted December 9, 2015 Share Posted December 9, 2015 https://www.washingtonpost.com/politics/i-will-never-leave-this-race/2015/12/08/af1b1d46-9ad2-11e5-8917-653b65c809eb_story.htmlGreat interview with Trump !!!! Exactly what I would say too ( to make me seem even stronger ) ! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PDS Posted December 9, 2015 Share Posted December 9, 2015 What matters to me is whether we have somebody who is making stuff things up as he goes along. You don't think he does. I beg to differ.David,I'm still going to do the Trump persuasion breakdown (and go into the Dilbert dude), but there is one thing Trump runs in parallel that should make a lot of sense to you qua negotiator. What I mean is that he does the persuasion stuff in addition to the following. And it's all about deal-making.Once again, I will let Rush Limbaugh explain it.Trump Supporter: Read The Art of the Deal to Understand What He's DoingDecember 08, 2015Rush Limbaugh(transcripts from his radio show)From the transcript:CALLER: Look, Rush, what Donald Trump is doing -- what he talks about -- is what he talks about in The Art of the Deal. These Grahamnesty, establishment GOP and media types should know Donald Trump is about business --RUSH: You see?CALLER: -- and it's what he wrote in The Art of the Deal.RUSH: This is fabulous.CALLER: What he's leading with is a bombastic offer.RUSH: This is absolutely great. George, thank you. Thank you very much. I appreciate the service that you just performed. Let me explain to you what it is. George here is a Trump supporter. You know what that means? George supports Trump. George has undertaken to understand as much about Trump as he can. One of the things he's done is he's read Trump's book called The Art of the Deal. What does Trump talk about constantly in this campaign?He's gonna do great deals. We got stupid leaders doing bad deals, doing dumb deals, but he's gonna do the best deals this country's ever had made. He's the best dealmaker; he's the best negotiator. And everybody just sits around and goes, "What a braggart. What a bunch of bombast." And they either laugh at it or they condemn it or what have you. But old George here probably knows something that most in the establishment, the ruling class, don't know, because they haven't read Trump's book.They wouldn't stoop to such depths!They wouldn't be seen reading Trump's book!Right in The Art of the Deal Trump says, if you're serious in a negotiation about wanting something -- and, by the way, being serious is the only time to enter into it -- and if there's something dead certain you've gotta have, you have got to start out with the most outrageous position. The opener has got to be so outrageous that the compromise is exactly what you want. The opener is the most outrageous demand that you can make. So what old George is doing here is extrapolating Trump's negotiating skills and his technique with his political statements.And old George here is convinced that Trump isn't really gonna deport every Muslim, and he really isn't gonna keep every Muslim outta here. But he thinks Trump wants to wake everybody up. He thinks Trump does have some pretty serious ideas, and to get there, he's gotta start out with one of these outrageous things. So that when Trump backs off of it is when he appears reasonable, which is when you can finally make the deal with him. It's a strategy.Trump is bringing his business acumen to politics. That's something that politicians don't have: business acumen, many of them. And so they don't recognize it, and they don't understand it. So what would be the manifestation of this? How would this manifest? Okay. Well, let's go back and remember when Trump said that he's gonna deport every Mexican. Every illegal Mexican that's here is gonna get sent back. "They've gotta go," he keeps saying. "They've gotta go back. They gotta go back."His own son, Eric Trump, said just yesterday or the day before, "My dad believes in amnesty if it's earned. Once they're sent home, they can come back if they'll do so legally." That's what his own son says the plan is. Trump hasn't said it. Well, maybe he even has, in certain ways. The point is that all of this bombast and all of this outrageousness is owning the media.It's the "bombastic offer."Let me quote the relevant sentence from Limbaugh's paraphrase of Trump again: The opener has got to be so outrageous that the compromise is exactly what you want.Trump owns the media because he constantly makes bombastic offers and the media lives on bombast. (If it bleeds, it ledes.) In other words, the media can't help itself when something bombastic comes along. It has to report on it. Its default fear dial is set so high the public has become acclimated and anything less (meaning more rational coverage) makes it lose audience.Even though a media personality with the reach of Rush Limbaugh just took the covers off the technique in broad daylight, the media will not stop treating a Trumpian bombastic offer as anything but the Gospel Truth so they can extrapolate how this will wreck the entire planet. It doesn't matter they look like fools later. They have to do it like a drug addict has to get his next fix.What's worse, I'm beginning to believe some of the media folks who are playing along realize exactly how they are being played by Trump, and they play along anyway to get audience.Addiction's a bitch, except to the drug dealer. MichaelBombastic offers might make sense in a zero sum setting where a pile of money is at stake. They do not make sense when one is the President of the United States. Just as one example, what do you think happens to our Muslim intelligence assets when such statements are made, or backed up by a President Trump? Do they stay loyal or drop back into the woodwork? That's just one example of how such rhethoric--especially if it is merely a negotaiting ploy--is out of bounds.I would like to think that the goal is not just a tactical "win" for news cycle X when you're President, or running for President. We've been through 7 years of that with Obama, i.e., tactical short term "wins" are the coin of that realm too.If I squint real hard I can sort of see how a "bombastic offer" might make sense when negotiating with Congress over a budget (although it would only work once, even amongst that IQ-challenged crowd), but I cannot see how an actual (potential) leader of the Western World can think this is the way to talk about large swaths of American citizens, or others for that matter. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marc Posted December 9, 2015 Share Posted December 9, 2015 What matters to me is whether we have somebody who is making stuff things up as he goes along. You don't think he does. I beg to differ.David,I'm still going to do the Trump persuasion breakdown (and go into the Dilbert dude), but there is one thing Trump runs in parallel that should make a lot of sense to you qua negotiator. What I mean is that he does the persuasion stuff in addition to the following. And it's all about deal-making.Once again, I will let Rush Limbaugh explain it.Trump Supporter: Read The Art of the Deal to Understand What He's DoingDecember 08, 2015Rush Limbaugh(transcripts from his radio show)From the transcript:CALLER: Look, Rush, what Donald Trump is doing -- what he talks about -- is what he talks about in The Art of the Deal. These Grahamnesty, establishment GOP and media types should know Donald Trump is about business --RUSH: You see?CALLER: -- and it's what he wrote in The Art of the Deal.RUSH: This is fabulous.CALLER: What he's leading with is a bombastic offer.RUSH: This is absolutely great. George, thank you. Thank you very much. I appreciate the service that you just performed. Let me explain to you what it is. George here is a Trump supporter. You know what that means? George supports Trump. George has undertaken to understand as much about Trump as he can. One of the things he's done is he's read Trump's book called The Art of the Deal. What does Trump talk about constantly in this campaign?He's gonna do great deals. We got stupid leaders doing bad deals, doing dumb deals, but he's gonna do the best deals this country's ever had made. He's the best dealmaker; he's the best negotiator. And everybody just sits around and goes, "What a braggart. What a bunch of bombast." And they either laugh at it or they condemn it or what have you. But old George here probably knows something that most in the establishment, the ruling class, don't know, because they haven't read Trump's book.They wouldn't stoop to such depths!They wouldn't be seen reading Trump's book!Right in The Art of the Deal Trump says, if you're serious in a negotiation about wanting something -- and, by the way, being serious is the only time to enter into it -- and if there's something dead certain you've gotta have, you have got to start out with the most outrageous position. The opener has got to be so outrageous that the compromise is exactly what you want. The opener is the most outrageous demand that you can make. So what old George is doing here is extrapolating Trump's negotiating skills and his technique with his political statements.And old George here is convinced that Trump isn't really gonna deport every Muslim, and he really isn't gonna keep every Muslim outta here. But he thinks Trump wants to wake everybody up. He thinks Trump does have some pretty serious ideas, and to get there, he's gotta start out with one of these outrageous things. So that when Trump backs off of it is when he appears reasonable, which is when you can finally make the deal with him. It's a strategy.Trump is bringing his business acumen to politics. That's something that politicians don't have: business acumen, many of them. And so they don't recognize it, and they don't understand it. So what would be the manifestation of this? How would this manifest? Okay. Well, let's go back and remember when Trump said that he's gonna deport every Mexican. Every illegal Mexican that's here is gonna get sent back. "They've gotta go," he keeps saying. "They've gotta go back. They gotta go back."His own son, Eric Trump, said just yesterday or the day before, "My dad believes in amnesty if it's earned. Once they're sent home, they can come back if they'll do so legally." That's what his own son says the plan is. Trump hasn't said it. Well, maybe he even has, in certain ways. The point is that all of this bombast and all of this outrageousness is owning the media.It's the "bombastic offer."Let me quote the relevant sentence from Limbaugh's paraphrase of Trump again: The opener has got to be so outrageous that the compromise is exactly what you want.Trump owns the media because he constantly makes bombastic offers and the media lives on bombast. (If it bleeds, it ledes.) In other words, the media can't help itself when something bombastic comes along. It has to report on it. Its default fear dial is set so high the public has become acclimated and anything less (meaning more rational coverage) makes it lose audience.Even though a media personality with the reach of Rush Limbaugh just took the covers off the technique in broad daylight, the media will not stop treating a Trumpian bombastic offer as anything but the Gospel Truth so they can extrapolate how this will wreck the entire planet. It doesn't matter they look like fools later. They have to do it like a drug addict has to get his next fix.What's worse, I'm beginning to believe some of the media folks who are playing along realize exactly how they are being played by Trump, and they play along anyway to get audience.Addiction's a bitch, except to the drug dealer. MichaelBombastic offers might make sense in a zero sum setting where a pile of money is at stake. They do not make sense when one is the President of the United States. Just as one example, what do you think happens to our Muslim intelligence assets when such statements are made, or backed up by a President Trump? Do they stay loyal or drop back into the woodwork? That's just one example of how such rhethoric--especially if it is merely a negotaiting ploy--is out of bounds.I would like to think that the goal is not just a tactical "win" for news cycle X when you're President, or running for President. We've been through 7 years of that with Obama, i.e., tactical short term "wins" are the coin of that realm too.If I squint real hard I can sort of see how a "bombastic offer" might make sense when negotiating with Congress over a budget (although it would only work once, even amongst that IQ-challenged crowd), but I cannot see how an actual (potential) leader of the Western World can think this is the way to talk about large swaths of American citizens, or others for that matter.Completely agree ! Its the Obama Guantanamo Bay thing all over again . I will close Guantanamo Bay on the first day in office , I recall him saying . Seven years later , its blah blah blah while GB stays open . Trump states like every other politician what he will do , carpet bomb this , close that , build a wall , send folks back to Syria and all other propaganda . Maybe in his own mind he is even being honest as I cannot claim to be inside his head .Meanwhile any President elect steps into that meeting on Nov 5th or 6th , meets with Obama and Secretary of State , Homeland security etc etc etc and they they realize that the US policy is just simply not that simple . President , not King .... or Queen ( if Trump actually did run against her ) .And no MSK , it was hypothetical in my example . He aint the nominee Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Michael Stuart Kelly Posted December 9, 2015 Share Posted December 9, 2015 David,If you can't see how the bombastic offer works with the American public, or the media, look at the poll numbers. Look at the media coverage.Do thine eyes betray thee?So, obviously, the bombastic offer makes sense not only in zero sum settings. It works.btw - Do you really think it does not make sense for the president? Have you ever heard the term "saber-rattling"? World leaders do this all the time.btw - Speaking of saber-rattling, Putin is now threatening to nuke ISIS. That threat from Russia would never happen under Trump. But not only is this happening under the leadership of Community Organizer Obama, the nukes just might blow up over ISIS.I'll take the bombastic offer to put order in the henhouse any day over the cancerous creep of community organizer progressivism (which creeps until it is too late--did I mention Putin now wants to nuke ISIS?).Michael Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Michael Stuart Kelly Posted December 9, 2015 Share Posted December 9, 2015 https://www.washingtonpost.com/politics/i-will-never-leave-this-race/2015/12/08/af1b1d46-9ad2-11e5-8917-653b65c809eb_story.htmlGreat interview with Trump !!!! Exactly what I would say too ( to make me seem even stronger ) !Marc,Did you notice the title of that article?“I. Will. Never. Leave. This. Race.”He aint the nomineeTake a deep breath and repeat after me:President Donald J. Trump...President Donald J. Trump...President Donald J. Trump...President Donald J. Trump...President Donald J. Trump...After awhile you will get used to it.Michael Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Peter Posted December 9, 2015 Share Posted December 9, 2015 Donald J. Trump? DJ Trump. A pollsters, Frank Luntz?, just said on the noon news, 40 percent totally agree with Trump's ban on Muslims. National Security Profiling Is a No-Brainer, Michelle Malkin | Dec 09, 2015.Calm down and think, America. While everyone's undies are in a bunch over Donald Trump's proposal for a Muslim immigration moratorium, it is undeniable in a time of "heightened alert" -- when violent jihadists have no problem targeting their enemies here and around the world -- that national security profiling is imperative to our survival. Yes, that means taking politically incorrect criteria such as ethnicity, nationality and religion into account when battling radical Islamist throat-slitters, suicide bombers and hijackers who incinerate children on airplanes traveling to Disneyland, plant bombs in their shoes, underwear, soda bottles and belts, and shoot up concert halls, restaurants, malls, Army bases and social services centers.end quoteProtests for Trump but he is doing better in the polls.In Israel, which sees terrorist attacks or threats daily, some are saying Bebe should cancel his meeting with Trump on December 28, 2015 but I think Trump will go and be greeted by the PM, though there will be added security in place. How could such a beleaguered country not have an unforced smile on its face when the Republican frontrunner steps off the plane? What will the tone of the average Israeli’s thinking be at that moment? “Damn, a ray of sunshine President Trump will be.”Just one other point. In recent past primaries, the most evangelical Republican candidate seems to win in Iowa and I never expected Trump to win there, but to come in second. It’s no big loss especially if Cruz squeaks out a win. I don’t think The Donald needs to lose any sleep, or emotional ammunition, over a second place showing there.My current pick four? Cruz. Trump. Rubio. Fiorina.Peter Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PDS Posted December 9, 2015 Share Posted December 9, 2015 David,If you can't see how the bombastic offer works with the American public, or the media, look at the poll numbers. Look at the media coverage.Do thine eyes betray thee? So, obviously, the bombastic offer makes sense not only in zero sum settings. It works.btw - Do you really think it does not make sense for the president? Have you ever heard the term "saber-rattling"? World leaders do this all the time.btw - Speaking of saber-rattling, Putin is now threatening to nuke ISIS. That threat from Russia would never happen under Trump. But not only is this happening under the leadership of Community Organizer Obama, the nukes just might blow up over ISIS.I'll take the bombastic offer to put order in the henhouse any day over the cancerous creep of community organizer progressivism (which creeps until it is too late--did I mention Putin now wants to nuke ISIS?).MichaelMSK:I don't care about the poll numbers. That is tactical. I don't care if the media has its nose out of joint. That too is tactical. Good for Donald Trump--the Press hates him!! Yay! This isn't about that. As far as "saber rattling" as an example of the bombasitic offer: Would anybody think it a good act of Presidential leadership to threaten to suspend the writ of habeus corpus (we are in a war, right?) in order, say, to get a wall built on the Mexican border? No, that would be a really shitty thing for a President to do. There are some things a leader does not threaten, even if an objective is ultimately reached, or even otherwise laudable. You seem to be suggesting that because Obama has been a bad president, it's okay for Trump to be a ridiculous blowhard in the manner we've been discussing.Okay. I think that's a self-defeating argument. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Michael Stuart Kelly Posted December 9, 2015 Share Posted December 9, 2015 I don't care about the poll numbers. That is tactical. I don't care if the media has its nose out of joint. That too is tactical. Good for Donald Trump--the Press hates him!! Yay! This isn't about that.David,Actually it is about that. The man is running an election campaign, not your speculations.If you want to see how he runs a project, there are plenty of them all over the world.Hell, he's got two luxury golf courses being built this moment, one in Dubai and the other in Istanbul. Even after he said what he did about temporarily banning the entry of new non-American Muslims. Those projects are going just fine without all the Sturm und Drang in the anti-Trump rhetoric.As to your speculations, they are that and nothing more. I prefer to use the following principle: when there is a discrepancy between what a person does and what he says, what he does is the better indication of what he will do in the future.For example, if he consistently builds many magnificent things in many different countries, on time, under budget, with polish, I think that is a pretty good indication of what he will do with government affairs.If, on the other hand, he is a junior congressman who gained his office by backstabbing those who supported him and backroom horsetrading, and vastly prefers to vote "present" rather than take a stand, he will probably do those things later in higher office.Oh wait!That's Obama and that's exactly what he did!But he sure talks a good game, doesn't he? From his words (i.e., what he says), one would think he has everything in control. See? People generally do later what they habitually do before.Michael Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Michael Stuart Kelly Posted December 9, 2015 Share Posted December 9, 2015 For those who want a lighter moment: Here's something any reader can do and I believe it's instructive. Go to any news site at this moment and try to feel the sheer intensity of hatred in the air. It doesn't matter whether the hatred is pro or anti-Trump or pro/anti anything else. Just feel the bad vibes. Now, watch the video above and feel the difference. Where did the hatred go? Those are the Trump supporters. And that, basically, is what a Trump administration will look like. Michael Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marc Posted December 9, 2015 Share Posted December 9, 2015 https://www.washingtonpost.com/politics/i-will-never-leave-this-race/2015/12/08/af1b1d46-9ad2-11e5-8917-653b65c809eb_story.htmlGreat interview with Trump !!!! Exactly what I would say too ( to make me seem even stronger ) !Marc,Did you notice the title of that article?“I. Will. Never. Leave. This. Race.” He aint the nomineeTake a deep breath and repeat after me:President Donald J. Trump...President Donald J. Trump...President Donald J. Trump...President Donald J. Trump...President Donald J. Trump...After awhile you will get used to it. MichaelLoolllllllzzzzzzz , yeah I read it !!!! Exactly my point !! He is a freaking pro !!!!!! I love him , just I realize that he has no Presidential delusions or ambitions !!!!! He is bluffing , he is a deal maker , he is a builder !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! He don't want that chair , he just makes you believe he does . He wants to be the guy behind the curtain , he wants to be Sheldon - but he ain't . The Sheldon has 27 billion , and is as liquid as a mofo ( and I state that word with love !!!!!!!!! ) . Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marc Posted December 9, 2015 Share Posted December 9, 2015 https://www.washingtonpost.com/politics/i-will-never-leave-this-race/2015/12/08/af1b1d46-9ad2-11e5-8917-653b65c809eb_story.htmlGreat interview with Trump !!!! Exactly what I would say too ( to make me seem even stronger ) !Marc,Did you notice the title of that article?“I. Will. Never. Leave. This. Race.” He aint the nomineeTake a deep breath and repeat after me:President Donald J. Trump...President Donald J. Trump...President Donald J. Trump...President Donald J. Trump...President Donald J. Trump...After awhile you will get used to it. MichaelCome on man , I tell you thrice a week that you are the smartest human I have ever met . Do you really think Trump should or would state " I.Will.Make. A . Deal . With . Rubio He is a PRO !!!!!!!!!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marc Posted December 9, 2015 Share Posted December 9, 2015 I don't care about the poll numbers. That is tactical. I don't care if the media has its nose out of joint. That too is tactical. Good for Donald Trump--the Press hates him!! Yay! This isn't about that.David,Actually it is about that. The man is running an election campaign, not your speculations.If you want to see how he runs a project, there are plenty of them all over the world.Hell, he's got two luxury golf courses being built this moment, one in Dubai and the other in Istanbul. Even after he said what he did about temporarily banning the entry of new non-American Muslims. Those projects are going just fine without all the Sturm und Drang in the anti-Trump rhetoric.As to your speculations, they are that and nothing more. I prefer to use the following principle: when there is a discrepancy between what a person does and what he says, what he does is the better indication of what he will do in the future.For example, if he consistently builds many magnificent things in many different countries, on time, under budget, with polish, I think that is a pretty good indication of what he will do with government affairs.If, on the other hand, he is a junior congressman who gained his office by backstabbing those who supported him and backroom horsetrading, and vastly prefers to vote "present" rather than take a stand, he will probably do those things later in higher office.Oh wait!That's Obama and that's exactly what he did!But he sure talks a good game, doesn't he? From his words (i.e., what he says), one would think he has everything in control. See? People generally do later what they habitually do before.MichaelI really like the way you put this post together . Honestly , Now , that being said - if you were advising Trump on this , and this alone - what would you recommend differently than DT has done ?Trump asks you for advice on a run for POTUS . He tells his advisor that he is sick of playing both sides of the aisle with his political donations and stances due to their being only one party or gang anyway , Thats how Washington do shit . So , DT says - God Forbid I win this thing but how do I shake up the establishment ?What would you tell Trump to do differently ? He won already , he gets to pick the winner .He won . He actually has decided a freaking US election !!!!! Be it Hillary win this way , or the GOP wins that way , or he runs in the Trump party .He already won , he has been that disruptive . He will get more disruptive now . He has a plan , its done .Now , he chooses only the King or the Queen , he crowns them . He don't wanna be doing press conferences daily and photo shoots with some puppet overseas .He wants to pay golf , live the dream . He gets to be Shelly !!!!!!!!!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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