Donald Trump

[moralist]

14 hours ago, BaalChatzaf said:

The terms fraudulent or false can only apply to  assertive propositions...

Like your ideological kin the secular liberals, you also regard Divinely designed morality as being a lie. So why do you live by it? I'll add that I'm glad that you do, even though you lack the self awareness of the contradiction of following something while damning it as being a lie.

And just a reminder that you still have not been able to state any work you have actually done that was not connected to your government. In my opinion you were indoctrinated with secularism by your government's education system whose sole purpose is to produce employees to serve the state.

You had mentioned how much you hate the government, when it was your own free choice to join yourself to it in a dependent relationship. I didn't make that choice to work for the state like you did so I don't hate the government because I didn't need what it offered to give you like you did. So it leaves me alone to enjoy my life as a free American.

This is a concept which is beyond your ability to understand because of your secular imprinting, but I'll state it anyways. There is a higher moral law to which the US government is subservient.  And this higher moral law is what makes the government a duly authorized agent of moral retribution. It's not the enemy because it only gives people what they demand and what they deserve by how they live.

So I don't hate the government like you do because I understand something about it that you never will. This is why our two views are irreconcileable. Each was formed by a totally different personal choice.

 

Greg

[Michael Stuart Kelly]

How about using kid actors?

From Zero Hedge:

Hillary Caught Using Child Actor At Pennsylvania Town Hall

A "randomly chosen" young girl was chosen to ask Clinton a question. And, surprise surprise, it was one about Trump's mistreatment of women and how President Clinton might undo the damage to the country.

 

The girl's name is Brennan Leach and she is a child actor. Her father is a Democratic state Senator in Pennsylvania who strongly supports Clinton.

Alex Jones shows several clips of her in other productions during the video below. Cut to 1:22 if you want to avoid Alex's lame-ass attempt at humor.  

My favorite part of Brennan Leach's question to Hillary Clinton was not about Leach.

It was Hillary's expression of sudden total delighted surprise.

She even said, grinning like the wolf in Grandma's bed to Little Red Riding Hood, "Thank you... Thank you... Thank you... Wow!"

Michael

[BaalChatzaf]

7 hours ago, moralist said:

Like your ideological kin the secular liberals, you also regard Divinely designed morality as being a lie. So why do you live by it? I'll add that I'm glad that you do, even though you lack the self awareness of the contradiction of following something while damning it as being a lie.

And just a reminder that you still have not been able to state any work you have actually done that was not connected to your government. In my opinion you were indoctrinated with secularism by your government's education system whose sole purpose is to produce employees to serve the state.

You had mentioned how much you hate the government, when it was your own free choice to join yourself to it in a dependent relationship. I didn't make that choice to work for the state like you did so I don't hate the government because I didn't need what it offered to give you like you did. So it leaves me alone to enjoy my life as a free American.

This is a concept which is beyond your ability to understand because of your secular imprinting, but I'll state it anyways. There is a higher moral law to which the US government is subservient.  And this higher moral law is what makes the government a duly authorized agent of moral retribution. It's not the enemy because it only gives people what they demand and what they deserve by how they live.

So I don't hate the government like you do because I understand something about it that you never will. This is why our two views are irreconcileable. Each was formed by a totally different personal choice.

 

Greg

No. I regard divinely inspired anything  as  a delusion.  A lie is an untruth intended to deceive.  An untruth may be an error (we all do that),  an entertaining fiction,  a delusion  or  a deliberate lie intended to deceive.   Many of the stories in the various scriptures  were sincerely believed.  That makes most of them untrue,  but some are not lies.  Once again you prove yourself a champion at false alternatives.  It is too bad there is no Illogic Award.  You would win it for sure.

[Michael Stuart Kelly]

17 hours ago, Michael Stuart Kelly said:

Right now, he's scored another big interview, this time with Ann Coulter.

I haven't seen this yet, but I will.

I just saw it.

Brilliant interview.

That is, Ann was brilliant and Stefan was a very good interviewer.

He also made Ann laugh several times.

I highly recommend it.

People who call this bigotry don't know what bigotry is.

Michael

[Peter]

God Speaks to Greg Via Short-Wave Radio!!! If Trump is elected, the end of the world is near!!!

Ba’al wrote: No. I regard divinely inspired anything as a delusion.  A lie is an untruth intended to deceive.  An untruth may be an error (we all do that), an entertaining fiction, a delusion or a deliberate lie intended to deceive. Many of the stories in the various scriptures were sincerely believed.  That makes most of the{m} untrue, but some are not lies. end quote

I think people have historically tended to believe “authority” or myths but with a more rational education going hand in hand with an accumulation of knowledge, I see less of that. Bigfoot, killer clowns, strange creature sightings like rocs, extinct creatures or bigfoot are put to the test and always come up lacking in evidence except for simpletons like Greg. Occasionally a creature thought of as being extinct shows itself but scientists must see photographic evidence, a live creature or a dead body, for it to be categorized as evidence but even then it may not be proof.

Claims of divinely inspired “truths” are lies and myths. You would think the liars would be abashed when they have no proof. You can’t disprove a fanciful deity other than to say, “OK. Have him tell you what he is going to do next, or show me a prediction that is about to come true.” Of course that never happens. Buddah, Vishnu, Christ or whatever fictional character they psychologically support never predicts anything except by chance .

But for some of “those people” lying and making excuses is a way of life. Many religious fanatics are nothing of the sort when you look closely. They are scam artists. Up till now few on OL have tried to profit monetarily by superstition. They instantly know they talking to the wrong group of people. Even though we think Rand was inspired and brilliant we do not see her as a deity, or believe in facts without proof, or buy gold when we have a hunch we will never see any of it, after payment.

The true believer can see un-rational actions and then work backwards to claim it is because those hurt by their actions caused it themselves . . .though they were aware of divine edict . . . they failed to live by divine edict. Of course that is not just lacking in science, it is a disconnect with reality. Some of the true believers simply want to proselytize or point the finger of shame. Jesus help them, they are lame brains, but do not know it.

Peter  

Form Wikipedia: The True Believer: Thoughts On The Nature Of Mass Movements is a 1951 social psychology book by American writer Eric Hoffer, in which Hoffer discusses the psychological causes of fanaticism. Hoffer analyzes and attempts to explain the motives of the various types of personalities that give rise to mass movements; why and how mass movements start, progress and end; and the similarities between them, whether religious, political, radical or reactionary. He argues that even when their stated goals or values differ, mass movements are interchangeable, that adherents will often flip from one movement to another, and that the motivations for mass movements are interchangeable. Thus, religious, nationalist and social movements, whether radical or reactionary, tend to attract the same type of followers, behave in the same way and use the same tactics and rhetorical tools. As examples, he often refers to Communism, Fascism, National Socialism, Christianity, Protestantism, and Islam.

A brief history of religious hoaxes for live Science:

The Protocols of the Elders of Zion. Perhaps the most infamous and malicious religious hoax in history, "The Protocols of the Learned Elders of Zion" is a book supposedly revealing a secret Jewish conspiracy to take over the world. It first appeared in Russia in 1905, and though the book has been completely discredited as a forgery, it is still in print and remains widely circulated. Many people have endorsed this religious hoax, including actor Mel Gibson, Adolf Hitler, and automaker Henry Ford, who in 1920 paid to have a half-million copies of the book published.

The Shroud of Turin. Though many believe that Italy's Shroud of Turin is the burial shroud of Jesus, there's compelling evidence the shroud is in fact a hoax, including a 1389 letter from French Bishop Pierre d'Arcisto Pope Clement stating that a painter confessed to creating it. Indeed, the Bishop's evidence was so convincing that even Pope Clement acknowledged it as a forgery — one of countless faked religious relics circulating at the time. 

Carbon dating of the Shroud of Turin revealed it does not date back to the time of Christ but instead 14 centuries later — exactly when the forger confessed to making it. Even more damning for its authenticity, there is no record of its existence before then; if it really is the burial shroud of Jesus Christ, it seems suspicious that no one knew anything about it for 1,300 years. Though many remain convinced of its authenticity, the historical and scientific evidence suggest the Shroud of Turin is probably a religious hoax. As researcher Joe Nickell noted in his book "Relics of the Christ" (The University Press of Kentucky, 2007),the shroud on display in Turin is only one of over 40 such Jesus shrouds — all claimed to be the real one. 

The Cardiff Giant. When farm workers digging a well in Cardiff, N.Y., uncovered a fossilized man in 1869 they found something remarkable. The Cardiff Giant, as the figure became known, was a somewhat realistic figure with roughly human dimensions — except that it was nearly 10 feet tall. It was clearly something unique — but what exactly it was divided the public. Some believed it was a stone carving, but who would have made it so long ago that it was buried so deep in the ground? Others, including a local reverend, were convinced it was proof of the literal truth of Biblical scripture, specifically Genesis 6:4 ("There were giants in the earth in those days" KJV). Here, finally, was one of those Biblical giants, discovered on a rural New York farm! It was in fact a clever hoax by a man named George Hull who had planted the carved stone where it would later be found by the farm hands, partly to prove the Bible literalists wrong.

Indian Guru Sai Baba's Legerdemain. One of the most influential spiritual leaders in India, Satya Sai Baba died last year at the age of 84. For over five decades the charismatic guru enthralled and mystified followers by performing minor miracles, including producing holy ash, watches, statues, necklaces and rings seemingly out of thin air. However, skeptical investigators including Basava Premanand of the Federation of Indian Rationalist Associations accused Sai Baba of simple magicians' tricks, and pointed out that all the objects were small and easily concealed in his hands and long-sleeved robes. In at least one case Sai Baba was caught on film by British investigator Professor Richard Wiseman secretly pulling small objects from his person while pretending they appeared out of nowhere.

The Discovery of Noah's Ark. Those seeking to find archaeological and historical proof of events in the Bible have often looked for — and, some claim, even found — Noah's Ark. Though many claims of finding the ark are honest mistakes, in 1993 a man hoaxed CBS television into running atwo-hour primetime special titled "The Incredible Discovery of Noah's Ark." It featured a man named George Jammal, who claimed to have found the ark on a mountain in Turkey. As proof of his incredible claim, he proudly displayed a piece of wood from the ark; it was in fact scrap pine marinated in soy sauce, and Jammal was an actor who had never even been to Turkey.

The Ossuary of James, Brother of Jesus. In 2002 an antiquities dealer in Israel claimed to have discovered a limestone ossuary (used to hold bones of the dead) with an inscription in Aramaic on one side of the box identifying its (missing) contents as those of "James, Son of Joseph, Brother of Jesus." The find made international news because if genuine, it might provide archaeological evidence for Jesus Christ.  Many archaeologists were skeptical for several reasons, including that there was no clear provenance (history) for the item and because carved rosette patterns on the other side of the box were rounded from age and decay, while the script on the disputed inscription had sharp edges suggesting it was recently added. A chalk wash also appeared to have been added to the lettering to make it appear older than it actually was. In 2003 the Israeli Antiquities Authority published a report concluding that the inscription was a modern forgery carved on a genuinely old ossuary box. [Faux Real: A Gallery of Forgeries]

God Speaks to Peter Popoff Via Short-Wave Radio. One of the most prominent televangelists in the 1980s was Peter Popoff, who, during his services and revivals, would call out names and home addresses of audience members he'd never met. He even knew personal details such as family members' illnesses or their deceased loved ones' names. It seemed that Popoff got his messages from God or angels, and it greatly impressed his audiences and followers. In 1986, magician James "The Amazing" Randi heard about Popoff's amazing abilities and decided to investigate. Randi noticed an apparently minor detail that most people missed: Popoff was wearing a hearing aid or earpiece. Using a radio scanner, Randi discovered that Popoff was actually getting biographical information about audience members from his wife (who had earlier spoken to the audience) using a short-wave radio. The scandal tarnished Popoff's ministry, but he eventually recovered and remains active today.

[Michael Stuart Kelly]

Wikileaks makes the first strike in the current releases (announced to be 10 weeks, one release per week).

RELEASE: the first 2050 of well over 50000 emails from Clinton Campaign Chairman John Podesta https://t.co/rpK9rbJ8ah #Podesta #imWithHer

— WikiLeaks (@wikileaks) October 7, 2016

Here's the direct link to their site:

The Podesta Emails

It looks like this first batch is about the Clinton Foundation and the uranium deal where Russia got US uranium through a network of fronts, but essentially in exchange for donations and speaking fees to the Clintons.

I, for one, will not read through all the emails, but instead read the articles about them from people who do.

Woo hoo!

It starts.

Right before the second debate, too.

 

Michael

[Backlighting]

This is from Yahoo's front page. The hits keep coming. I'll vote for Trump but I wish it was Gingrich on the ticket instead. -J

https://www.yahoo.com/news/video-emerges-of-donald-trump-saying-shockingly-lewd-things-in-2005-205256001.html

[Michael Stuart Kelly]

3 hours ago, Backlighting said:

The hits keep coming.

Joe,

Don't worry about it.

Wait until it comes up in the debate.

Handled right, this locker-room talk is the perfect parry for Trump to sucker-punch Clinton.

Michael

 

[Michael Stuart Kelly]

32 minutes ago, Michael Stuart Kelly said:

Joe,

Don't worry about it.

Let me add to this.

Here are some far left dudes (Young Turks).

Essentially, they don't think this potty mouth thing is going to matter after the splash dies down.

One of them does among new voters, but compared to the panic Cenk normally shows, there is some wishful thinking going on in this discussion, too. They are trying to milk the opportunity kind of thing.

Another even thinks this will get votes for Trump among the "pussy grabbers."  And when he said that, not one of the panelists showed the slightest squeamishness. They all laughed knowingly.  

Michael

[Michael Stuart Kelly]

I saw this earlier and just now got notice of it offline, so here it is.

Diamond and Silk get down and dirty defending Trump on Pottymouthgate.

I love these women.

Michael

[Michael Stuart Kelly]

Trump just released this video statement on Facebook.

I commented on that Facebook thread. Here is what I said:

Quote

I was worried about this statement until the end. It's weird seeing Trump eat humble pie. Then he said he is going to go after Clinton for intimidating the women her husband abused and I thought, "Yesssss!" 

If you must fight a hog in the mud, don't just wrestle. Shove the mud down the hogs throat. Make the hog eat the mud and make it squeal about the mud. I believe the American public will resonate with that. I know I do.

Michael

[KorbenDallas]

Megyn Kelly is venomous here, aghast at Trump:

Oops---what bout Howard Stern, Kelly? (nsfw):

So here's Megyn, trying to attack.  Trump said things explicitly in private while she said said things impliclty on Stern---the CCD?  They both talk like that.

This whole thing is starting to look ridiculous.

Edited October 8, 2016 by KorbenDallas
phraseology

[Michael Stuart Kelly]

Meanwhile, back in policyland:

The #PodestaEmails Part 1: https://t.co/pjX9tmfINt pic.twitter.com/A0yr1GZJAe

— WikiLeaks (@wikileaks) October 8, 2016

That bears typing out as a Hillary Clinton quote:

HILLARY CLINTON: "You need to have a public position and a private position on policy."

She said this in a private paid speech leaked by Wikileaks. (I don't know yet where the speech was given or to whom.)

Do Clinton supporters need more before they start grokking her true nature?

Fortunately, more is coming.

 

Michael

[Michael Stuart Kelly]

And there's this:

Clinton secret paid speech to bank: "My dream is a hemispheric common market, with open trade and open borders," https://t.co/5G8cSAQxJx pic.twitter.com/Nm1U9Ycq9F

— WikiLeaks (@wikileaks) October 7, 2016

Open borders, meaning no real US borders. That says it all.

Michael

[Michael Stuart Kelly]

I've only seen 10 minutes of this video so far, but this Bernie supporter, Jordan Chariton (a Young Turks reporter), is absolutely livid with Clinton.

He goes through several of the emails with commentary.

I wonder who he's going to vote for, I wonder?

It won't be Clinton or Trump, but I bet a huge number of his fans go to Trump.

Michael

[Backlighting]

3 hours ago, Michael Stuart Kelly said:

Joe,

Don't worry about it.

Wait until it comes up in the debate.

Handled right, this locker-room talk is the perfect parry for Trump to sucker-punch Clinton.

Michael

 

Easier said than done Michael. I'm looking forward to Sunday's debate. The Donald needs to come out swinging at that despicable witch. -J

[Michael Stuart Kelly]

So let's see the sins of each candidate in today's disclosures.

Clinton formally wants open borders, supports lying to the public on principle (must have a public and private policy), tells the big banks a whole bunch of things and tells the public the opposite, brags to bankers that she is far removed from the struggles of the middle class, etc.

Trump said pussy.

Michael

[KorbenDallas]

Just a footnote...  Who is Billy Bush?  From the WaPo: An unlikely Bush finally did some damage to Donald Trump: Billy Bush

Billy Bush is first cousins with former president George W. Bush and first cousins with Jeb!  Billy's father is Jonathan Bush, brother of George H.W. Bush, and this (of course) makes Billy a nephew to the former president, George H.W. Bush, who is set to vote for Hillary Clinton.

Is it possible Billy was the source of the leak after the Bush family sent out an APB?:  "Anyone have anything on Trump?"

Billy, "Yea, Trump said some stuff on a bus one time with me.  I'll get with one of the producers to see if we have anything..."

Edited October 8, 2016 by KorbenDallas
added some context

[Michael Stuart Kelly]

On the sex talk, Trump's comments are going to go on the back burner before too long as the media moves on to something else.

However, the Alex Jones fueled "Bill Clinton is a rapist" movement is turning the phrase into a meme and I think this will be just as strong if not stronger all the way up to the election. The movement itself is becoming news and it messes with journalists (who love to inject themselves into stories when they can get away with it).

You can already see a several examples below.

Say what you want about this election, boring it is not.

Michael

[moralist]

21 hours ago, BaalChatzaf said:

No. I regard divinely inspired anything  as  a delusion. 

Well, that's my point, Bob. You live by a Divinely designed moral code which you damn as being a delusion. That's the cost of your choice to depend on your government as a source of income. You gave it your sanction to imprint you with its liberal religion of secularism...

...which is the fastest growing political religion in America.

Greg

[moralist]

22 hours ago, Michael Stuart Kelly said:

 

 

When I first watched that video on youtube, Alex had me believing it was Trump!

 

Greg

[BaalChatzaf]

19 minutes ago, moralist said:

Well, that's my point, Bob. You live by a Divinely designed moral code which you damn as being a delusion. That's the cost of your choice to depend on your government as a source of income. You gave it your sanction to imprint you with its liberal religion of secularism...

...which is the fastest growing political religion in America.

Greg

I can acquire my ethics through reason and experience.  I do not have to believe some wild-eyed Prophet  who claims God spoke to him.

You have no evidence that the Hioly Books you revere are anything but human made.   

Religions based on a non-physical, non-natural  god  are not supported by any -reproducible-  empirical means.  That means they could be shams,  fairy tales or outright deception. 

I do not deny there might be a Real God out there,  but the god of the preachers, prophets,  priests,  imams and rabbis   are cartoons.   Great for kids,  not substantial for adults. 

[Peter]

Charlie Gasparino on Fox is saying it is being discussed at the highest Republican levels whether Trump should drop out. Trump cannot be made to withdraw but if he decides to drop out there is a committee of top Republicans and a mechanism in place to select his successor.

Trump said “pussy” and sexually groped or intimidated the women he came into contact with and I will not defend that. It went beyond “locker room” talk. Trump can claim he talked about molestation, but Bill Clinton acted upon it, and there is some truth to that. To me the idea that the women were at fault (they made him do it) is what all predators, including child molester’s say. I could live with the idea of Trump stepping down, or of him ultimately winning the Presidency. It would be worse if Hillary won.

On the opposing side, off the top of my head: As a defending lawyer, Hillary Clinton defended a child rapist who raped a twelve year old girl. She bragged about it. She knew the guy was guilty and said she had lost respect for lie detectors because the guy passed the test. She joked about it and discussed the fact that she WRONGLY made the jury think the 12 year old rape victim was off in the head though there was no clinical evidence to verify that claim.

Bill Clinton raped many women, molested many more, and got away with it. He was a sexual predator. He was impeached for lying but stayed in office. His wife Hillary Clinton did not leave that serial philanderer and rapist. She did not condemn his behavior as a sexual intimidator, or as a constant, constant philanderer. Instead she vehemently defended his actions or denied them, though she knew the truth (she threw a lamp at President Bill’s head at the White House after one incident. The Clinton’s Philippino house keeper said he would not clean up or walk through an alcove at the White House because of the globs of semen on the floor.) Hillary not only defended Bill but she attacked the victims of Bill’s sexual predation and that is one of the worst things Hillary did in a moral sense. She enabled a predator and she tried to destroy the victims.

Is Trump’s trash talk going to be “The October Surprise?” More people will come forward with evidence of his unfitness for office. More evidence will come forward about Hillary’s unfitness for office. What will the debate bring? It is a town hall debate so there is a lot of uncertainty involved. But it could descend into a verbal brawl.

Peter

[Jules Troy]

Greg read Julian Janes The origins of consciousness.  He has a pretty good grasp of were God came from....

[BaalChatzaf]

7 minutes ago, Jules Troy said:

Greg read Julian Janes The origins of consciousness.  He has a pretty good grasp of were God came from....

There is not a shred of evidence based on brain physiology  to support Jayne's thesis.

I find Jayne's thesis amusing but in the absence of scientific  corroboration I do not take it seriously.

BTW  I once had a conversation with Jaynes  maybe  40 +  years ago on the David Brudnoy talk show on WBZ.