The Exploitation of Trayvon Martin

[Selene]

Did you take a condescending pill today.

Pots and kettles and black...

[Michael Stuart Kelly]

Just for the record, I'm not upset with anyone here.

I'm upset with the media and how it is milking this thing for all its worth--before spitting out the people it damages as it moves on to the next Soap.

Michael

[caroljane]

What media? From what I have followed, they are reporting a trial which is of wide general interest. The reports are accurate - what is your beef?

[Michael Stuart Kelly]

Carol,

My beef?

It's the imbalance toward entertainment, not news.

I see these folks in the trial as real people, not Soap Opera stars.

I don't root for one or the other. I just don't play the media game.

Michael

[Ellen Stuttle]

Well, It's getting worse.

As the country hangs in thrall about the climax of the Trayvon and George show, State Representative Monique Davis here in Illinois, the Land of Lincoln, is calling for the state police and National Guard to help with the butchery in Chicago.

I was wondering what had happened in Chicago with the 4th of July stretch but hadn't gotten around to looking yet.

Awful. Upsets me in a "close to home" feeling way, with my having formed an affection for Chicago when I was going to school at Northwestern.

Ellen

[caroljane]

You may think I misunderstand the American welding of guns and liberty, but I actually don't. I just deplore it.

I think you misunderstand or simply don't know. It's both an American thing and a male thing. You need to be part of that. When I cut a guy who wanted to rape me in college, my brother-in-law poured me a drink while my sister deplored it.

-Brant

You may have been right here.

"The point of a gun was the only law that liberty understood".

The womenfolk, as I recall, would hide.

[william.scherk]

I wrote a lot of stupid, knee-jerk things back in April of 2012. Here is the whole mess, with emphasis on what I find most stupid in my posting:

I am still waiting for commentary here that does not prejudge the entire matter.

I expect that the many little judges on this list have reached verdicts in their hearts. I cannot find a note here that has the least interest in shutting the fuck up until the case goes to law. And now, of course, now that Zimmerman has been brought to law, charged with unlawful killing, the judges have decided that justice is suspect.

The ICK factor writ large. The disempathy and knee-jerk attachment to Fox verities. The seeming need to make this a make-or-break case that will illustrate the awfulness of folks who are concerned about the death of an unarmed youth. The rampant sleazy prejudice and mocking of a grieving family's concerns. Does anyone grandstanding and huffing and puffing worry that they may sound just like any other lowlife fucking racist whiteburger peckerhead?

The ICK factor of this forum. Seriously. That kind of coded shit makes me sick to my stomach. I accuse no one of straight-up racial prejudice, but I smell something foul in the reactions of folks whose opinions I otherwise respect.


Of course, if we wait for the black Objectivists here on OL to say what is in their hearts ... they may not be willing to speak up at the moment while the White Guys tell us what to think ...

I can't take it all back, but I can say I am ashamed of my own grandstanding.

Edited July 11, 2013 by william.scherk

[Brant Gaede]

"The point of a gun was the only law that liberty understood".

The womenfolk, as I recall, would hide.

Load the guns.

--Brant

[PDS]

I have tried jury cases for 26 years, including murder cases.

I don't think chipmunk eyes mean much with jurors, and the inside of a courtroom is very hard to judge through TV cameras and/or one or two hour vignettes.

I will say this: most juries get it right--not all, but most. And those juries are not supposed to be paying attention to what any of us think, including the media.

Enough throat clearing: my guess is that we are looking at a hung jury.

[Michael Stuart Kelly]

William,

Welcome to the human race.

Projections, projections and more projections.

Our respective core storylines lead us to project a lot of heady stuff (good and bad) on the wrong people.

I do it, too.

The only thing you can do is try to keep a lid on it, or come out with, "Oops," when it goes too far and you catch it later. Just like you did here (and I have done at other times.)

I don't think there's a final cure for it.

Michael

[caroljane]

I have tried jury cases for 26 years, including murder cases.

I don't think chipmunk eyes mean much with jurors, and the inside of a courtroom is very hard to judge through TV cameras and/or one or two hour vignettes.

I will say this: most juries get it right--not all, but most. And those juries are not supposed to be paying attention to what any of us think, including the media.

Enough throat clearing: my guess is that we are looking at a hung jury.

I will take a gamble and guess against the expert. Acquittal or manslaughter. My reasoning is blatantly sexist. Women tend more to compromise and try to reconcile opposing views, men to debate and well, stand their ground. This jury may be discordant but my bet is when it is over they will sing together.

[caroljane]

I wrote a lot of stupid, knee-jerk things back in April of 2012.

I can't take it all back, but I can say I am ashamed of my own grandstanding.

Now that you're shriven, tell me that you agree with all my posts. I have been a little outnumbered here.

[william.scherk]

I wrote a lot of stupid, knee-jerk things back in April of 2012.

I can't take it all back, but I can say I am ashamed of my own grandstanding.

Now that you're shriven, tell me that you agree with all my posts. I have been a little outnumbered here.

Verily, Shrove Thursday. What I can say is that I feel the emotion of all the posts in a different light than I did last year. The feelings of loss, the loss of a young life, the felt non-necessity of lethal force, the rejection of riot ... I hope I understand how the feelings arise.

I think OLers, on balance, hope for a kind of tempered justice, not vengeance, not punishment, some kind of truth to emerge via the jury. For the parents of the dead kid, some closure.

I think and feel your heart is in its heart-place, Carol. As are the hearts and minds of the rest of the commenters here. But here, there is a 'hung jury.'

I wonder if in the near future, more neighbourhood watchers will consider carrying a firearm. I wonder if such watchers might prepare for the inevitable conflict or 'hooded nogoodnik' sighting or even punchup. Will the watcher rehearse such lines as "If you do not get off me, I will shoot you," or if they might consider leaving the sidearm at home.

Thin gruel, I know, Carol.

[Brant Gaede]

The assumption that George Zimmerman is not a hero is as unwarranted as the assumption he's guilty--of some kind of criminality. The thread bias is the contrary for the former and up in the air for the latter.

--Brant

lynch the "white" man!

[caroljane]

I wrote a lot of stupid, knee-jerk things back in April of 2012.

I can't take it all back, but I can say I am ashamed of my own grandstanding.

Now that you're shriven, tell me that you agree with all my posts. I have been a little outnumbered here.

Verily, Shrove Thursday. What I can say is that I feel the emotion of all the posts in a different light than I did last year. The feelings of loss, the loss of a young life, the felt non-necessity of lethal force, the rejection of riot ... I hope I understand how the feelings arise.

I think OLers, on balance, hope for a kind of tempered justice, not vengeance, not punishment, some kind of truth to emerge via the jury. For the parents of the dead kid, some closure.

I think and feel your heart is in its heart-place, Carol. As are the hearts and minds of the rest of the commenters here. But here, there is a 'hung jury.'

I wonder if in the near future, more neighbourhood watchers will consider carrying a firearm. I wonder if such watchers might prepare for the inevitable conflict or 'hooded nogoodnik' sighting or even punchup. Will the watcher rehearse such lines as "If you do not get off me, I will shoot you," or if they might consider leaving the sidearm at home.

Thin gruel, I know, Carol.

But very nourishing.

[Brant Gaede]

I have tried jury cases for 26 years, including murder cases.

I don't think chipmunk eyes mean much with jurors, and the inside of a courtroom is very hard to judge through TV cameras and/or one or two hour vignettes.

I will say this: most juries get it right--not all, but most. And those juries are not supposed to be paying attention to what any of us think, including the media.

Enough throat clearing: my guess is that we are looking at a hung jury.

I will take a gamble and guess against the expert. Acquittal or manslaughter. My reasoning is blatantly sexist. Women tend more to compromise and try to reconcile opposing views, men to debate and well, stand their ground. This jury may be discordant but my bet is when it is over they will sing together.

If they're mush heads they'll find him guilty of something, but a hung jury? No. Nothing would surprise me more than that.

--Brant

[anthony]

William usually strikes a chord. I recall three or four times in my life I "left my gun at home" (metaphorically, since I've never owned one), would possibly have used one, and now am happy I emerged OK without it. (Post facto omniscience...) You kill someone, it's all over for him but the lifetime of second-guessing starts for you: did it have to be that way? All this shows is that sometimes/often you can get out of trouble without the gun - and will be wholly reliant on other resources; but that one time it doesn't work, is the last.

There are vile humans around who may only be deterred by the threat of maximum force - and some maybe not even that - so I'm a supporter of gun ownership and extreme self defence, as the only thing that can stop them dead (or deter them, if they're slightly sane) - but the responsibility of ownership doesn't suit me. (I'll never say never, though.)

[caroljane]

I have a query for PDS, or any other armchair defencepersons:

If Zimmer were your client would you have put him on the stand? I realise there is no need for it when as now the defence thinks its case is strong enough without his testimony. But what would you do?

[Peter]

Brant wrote:

If they're mush heads they'll find him guilty of something, but a hung jury? No. Nothing would surprise me more than that . . . . lynch the "white" man!

end cobbled together quote

This is no joking matter, Mr. Noodle! Whites and Hispanics are incapable of rational thought. They drown in their own stupidity and emotions. Remember the OJ Simpson trial and the whites rioting after a not guilty verdict in Los Angeles? The media bias whipped up them white folks and people were hunted down and shot or hung just because of the darker color of their skin.

WhYNOT wrote:

I recall three or four times in my life I "left my gun at home" . . .

end quote

SEE! Even South African white people couldn’t handle the truth! White people should just rein in their emotions or the same rioting could happen in Florida if Zimmerman is convicted or receives just a “minor” manslaughter conviction. The Florida National Guard must be prepared for the mobs. People of color should remain indoors until the whites are exhausted and halt their hunt for revenge. How sad.

Armee Ant

[Brant Gaede]

Zimmerman is half Hispanic and half white. He's been described as "white-Hispanic" by media wanting to get him for being white. That makes Obama a "white-black."

--Brant

[Brant Gaede]

The judge has given the jury a manslaughter option. Such a conviction would expose Z to penalties about as severe as 2nd degree murder.

--Brant

can no longer predict a not guilty verdict

[caroljane]

Zimmerman is half Hispanic and half white. He's been described as "white-Hispanic" by media wanting to get him for being white. That makes Obama a "white-black."

--Brant

Disillusioned blacks are just calling him Whitey now.

[Peter]

Brant wrote:

Zimmerman is half Hispanic and half white. He's been described as "white-Hispanic" by media wanting to get him for being white. That makes Obama a "white-black."

end quote

And Daunce responded:

Disillusioned blacks are just calling him Whitey now.

end quote

Oh, the shame. The ANC’s (African American Neo-colonial, Coalition's) national bird is the fried chicken, so watch for gnawed bones being tossed at the whitest amongst us.

I noticed on the recent slide show of the Atlas Society meeting in DC that there were several dark complexioned people there so I don’t want to hurt any of my “allies” feelings with my jokes but I have not heard any dark complexioned person saying:

“We want the truth to come out. I believe in our system of justice so if Zimmerman is acquitted I will support that verdict. No one should harm others or destroy property because of any possible outcome (as in guilty of a lesser charge but with no additional jail time.”

Maybe Bill Cosby will express something like that, or one of our own fans of Rand. But then again, why should they?

Peter

[caroljane]

Brant wrote:

Zimmerman is half Hispanic and half white. He's been described as "white-Hispanic" by media wanting to get him for being white. That makes Obama a "white-black."

end quote

And Daunce responded:

Disillusioned blacks are just calling him Whitey now.

end quote

Oh, the shame. The ANC’s (African American Neo-colonial, Coalition's) national bird is the fried chicken, so watch for gnawed bones being tossed at the whitest amongst us.

I noticed on the recent slide show of the Atlas Society meeting in DC that there were several dark complexioned people there so I don’t want to hurt any of my “allies” feelings with my jokes but I have not heard any dark complexioned person saying:

“We want the truth to come out. I believe in our system of justice so if Zimmerman is acquitted I will support that verdict. No one should harm others or destroy property because of any possible outcome (as in guilty of a lesser charge but with no additional jail time.”

Maybe Bill Cosby will express something like that, or one of our own fans of Rand. But then again, why should they?

Peter

A hint, Peter. Don't take sarcasm lessons from jts.

[anthony]

Been watching CNN (panel discussion with Piers Morgan ) and it's depressing to see the predictable splits down racial - and gender - lines. The white males displayed the most balance and perspective, I thought. An obvious progressive from the Huff Post did his best to play to the audience's emotions. Some revealing opinions.

One thing's for sure, you don't combat racism with reverse racism.

If this fearful perception exists concerning a sector of the black community, the question is what are they going to do about it? Not, what are the rest of the populace and the State going to do.

(Speak up, Bill C.)