The Exploitation of Trayvon Martin

[Brant Gaede]

The all-woman jury is an interesting factor. Zimmerman is appealing, with his sad eyes and his chipmunk cheeks and his devotion to law and order. Will the jurors identify with him as their protector or son or brother, or with Martin, or Martin's mother?

Maybe they'll consider the evidence.

--Brant

[caroljane]

The all-woman jury is an interesting factor. Zimmerman is appealing, with his sad eyes and his chipmunk cheeks and his devotion to law and order. Will the jurors identify with him as their protector or son or brother, or with Martin, or Martin's mother?

Maybe they'll consider the evidence.

--Brant

Of course they will. But they will consider it from the perspectives of the individuals they are. just as we all are doing.

[Ellen Stuttle]

Ellen:

Not being at the scene where King was subdued by the officers, and, purely by the visuals, the verdict seemed unjust.

An unjust verdict does not justify what happened afterwards.

Are you somehow interpreting me to say that it does?

Ellen

[Selene]

Ellen:

Not being at the scene where King was subdued by the officers, and, purely by the visuals, the verdict seemed unjust.

An unjust verdict does not justify what happened afterwards.

Are you somehow interpreting me to say that it does?

Ellen

Not at all. You have not expressed an opinion on that issue.

I was just expressing my opinion.

A...

[caroljane]

"prominent voices...some are worried..it is possible..." yeah, thanks Alex for the perennial race-war crap from the usual "prominent voices", yourself and Lew Rockwell.

You have not yet provided me with one MSM salivating riot-feeding example.

[/quo

Adam, I have actually been following this up and still I have found no riot-predictors except right-wing ones. Most recently our old friend John Lott, gun shill and stats manipulator extraordinaire, on Fox news. This case is so different from the King one, and has so many more angles than the racial one.

[caroljane]

Of course this is a heaven-sent opportunity for Lott. I am sure that the killing of Trayvon has reduced the burglary rate in Sanford drastically.

[Selene]

"...John Lott, gun shill and stats manipulator extraordinaire..."

Carol:

Is this your attempt at hyperbole?

Or, do you have proof that he manipulates statistics?

A...

[caroljane]

"...John Lott, gun shill and stats manipulator extraordinaire..."

Carol:

Is this your attempt at hyperbole?

Or, do you have proof that he manipulates statistics?

A...

Not I but another. We have been through this before.

[caroljane]

"...John Lott, gun shill and stats manipulator extraordinaire..."

Carol:

Is this your attempt at hyperbole?

Or, do you have proof that he manipulates statistics?

A...

It is on record, abundantly, that his methodology, interpretation and data reporting (ie leaving out of the entire stste of Florida in calculating national probabilities) have been repeatedly challenged by other scholars. Not being a scholar I can only read overviews and draw my own conclusions.

[Ellen Stuttle]

Regarding John Lott, for instance:

http://econospeak.blogspot.com/2009/01/gun-nuts-exposed-at-distorting-data-and.html

Author: Barkley Rosser

Besides recounting how the major study by John Lott and Mustard has lots of data problems and cut off just before the post-1992 crime decline, they focus on a paper by Moody and Marvell that claims that a study of 24 states showed a reduction in crime for increasing access to guns. It turns out that in this study 23 of the 24 states had the opposite result, and the aggregate result was solely due to Florida. However, the data in Florida is all messed up and also probably caught a general crime wave decline due to a regression to the mean after the Mariel boat landings from Cuba in the early 1980s. I am not doing their paper justice, but the media discussion is often dominated by Lott and his allies who are now pushing for loosened gun laws in Virginia, and are counting on Dems laying low and not challenging their incessantly repeated claims that such gun law relaxations reduce crime. They should not lay low. The claims are baloney and lies, based on distorted date and misrepresentations of results from ones with better data.

That's an old one, from "Econospeak," January 20, 2009, but it's representative of charges I found when I did some researching of Lott at the time of the Sandy Hook school incident.

Ellen

PS: Carol, when are you going to learn to copy and paste? Since you can manage to use the Shift key to type a capital letter, I don't see why you'd have difficulty using the Control key to copy and paste. The only other technique needed is highlighting text, which is easy. You could ask a friend who uses computers to show you how if you don't understand the instructions from your computer's "Help" menu.

[Dglgmut]

I brought it up, I guess, just to show that urban life everywhere is not the tense no-mans-land so often evoked by reports of crimes like this.

Sanford, FL is not quite urban (population: 53,570 as of 2010). And they have a relatively higher crime rate than most cities in the US.

Also, that Trayvon was never convicted of a crime does not mean that if he was not in school when he was caught fighting those several times he would not have been.

Zimmerman was drunk when he violently resisted arrest and domestic violence charges on men are often bullshit. In some states it is considered domestic violence for a man to withhold sex from his spouse... but not the other way around, of course.

Did Zimmerman profile Martin? I think it's fair to say that he did, but what does that have to do with second degree murder?

People are crying, "If he would have stayed in the truck like the police dispatcher told him this never would have happened!" Who cares!? Nothing Zimmerman did was illegal, unless of course he shot Martin outside of legitimate self-defense.

If Martin's attacks were in self-defense, then Zimmerman is guilty. Does Martin have any wounds aside from the bullet hole?

"The medical examiner found two injuries on Martin’s body: the fatal gunshot wound on his chest and broken skin on his knuckles, according to WFTV." http://www.nydailynews.com/news/national/autopsy-shows-trayvon-martin-injuries-knuckles-report-article-1.1079190

[caroljane]

Did Zimmerman have bruises from the alleged sucker punch? Did he have defensive wounds? Did Martin have Zimmerman's DNA under his fingernails, or hair traces indicating a head-grabbing? Where is the blood on the sidewalk (I know, it was raining).

Slight correction to your post, Martin was not only never convicted, he was never even charged with any crimes. Zimmerman's charges you have explained, and I expect the defence will adequately explain this current one.

[caroljane]

I am assuming Zimmerman was sober when he encountered |Martin, I haven't seen any reports of breathalysing.

[caroljane]

I brought it up, I guess, just to show that urban life everywhere is not the tense no-mans-land so often evoked by reports of crimes like this.

Sanford, FL is not quite urban (population: 53,570 as of 2010). And they have a relatively higher crime rate than most cities in the US.

Also, that Trayvon was never convicted of a crime does not mean that if he was not in school when he was caught fighting those several times he would not have been1.1079190

Yes, indeed. If only he had been jailed for fighting like you know he should have been, he would not have been loose to prey on poor helpless Zimmerman.\

A town of 50,000 people is an urban area to me. I grew up in a town of 3000. Even there there were neighbourhoods and areas. It was large enough to not know or immediately recognize everybody. Although when you are a kid, they always know you."You must be Jack Stuart's girl!" Yeah, since there is no past of must, |I had to be.

[Dglgmut]

Does he sound drunk on the call? I don't think anyone was even wondering if he was drunk or not, but with his history, he'd be more likely to be violent if he was drunk.

You know what happens in UFC when a guy is straddled and being punched in the head? They end the fight.

There's not a lot of rules in UFC.

[Dglgmut]

Yes, indeed. If only he had been jailed for fighting like you know he should have been, he would not have been loose to prey on poor helpless Zimmerman.\

A town of 50,000 people is an urban area to me. I grew up in a town of 3000. Even there there were neighbourhoods and areas. It was large enough to not know or immediately recognize everybody. Although when you are a kid, they always know you.

What? I don't think many people should be jailed... I don't see the point. It doesn't seem to fix anything, just waste a bunch of money.

I'd rather see people empowered to defend themselves.

Again, "deserve"'s got nothing to do with it. It's not hard to avoid a situation where someone can legitimately kill you in self-defense. Don't straddle people and punch them in the head... especially strangers that could be armed.

[caroljane]

I agree with you about the jailing, so write your Congressman, because you have the highest incarceration rate in the world.

It is obvious that on the evidence so far, you believe that Martin straddled Z and pounded his head,and so far I do not.

[Dglgmut]

It is obvious that on the evidence so far, you believe that Martin straddled Z and pounded his head,and so far I do not.

I understand that, but you've said a lot else.

I didn't know Canada's incarceration rate was so high or that we had a congress.

[caroljane]

Here is the thing, if Martin was on top of Zimmerman, in such a death struggle, how did he manage to pound the TOP of his head? He would have had to grab it hard and bend his neck, and would surely have got some skin under his fingernails, which his autopsy showed he did not.

[caroljane]

Sorry Calvin, I just checked your profile and it doesn't say anything - I did not know you were Canadian too -- is it too intrusive to ask what province?

[Dglgmut]

Here is the thing, if Martin was on top of Zimmerman, in such a death struggle, how did he manage to pound the TOP of his head? He would have had to grab it hard and bend his neck, and would surely have got some skin under his fingernails, which his autopsy showed he did not.

Don't they have experts talk about these kinds of things in trials, or do they just hope the jury extrapolates to the best of their ability?

[Dglgmut]

I think I've said a few times I live in Toronto.

[caroljane]

I think I've said a few times I live in Toronto.

Sorry, I missed it. So do you live in Jane-Finch or St Jamestown, and walk around in fear and trembling?

[Dglgmut]

I live in a good area, near Bloor and Ossington, but I don't believe anyone who says they have not been afraid at any point while living in Toronto... if they walk around at night.

I have not felt threatened myself, but I'm quite aware when I'm vulnerable to be robbed or whatever. You don't even have to be in a bad area for something to happen to you. Bad stuff happens on the subways occasionally, and in certain stations. I have walked around a fair bit at night, but I'm thankful I don't live in an area like Jane and Finch, if only because I don't have to worry as much.

[caroljane]

I live in a good area, near Bloor and Ossington, but I don't believe anyone who says they have not been afraid at any point while living in Toronto... if they walk around at night.

I have not felt threatened myself, but I'm quite aware when I'm vulnerable to be robbed or whatever. You don't even have to be in a bad area for something to happen to you. Bad stuff happens on the subways occasionally, and in certain stations. I have walked around a fair bit at night, but I'm thankful I don't live in an area like Jane and Finch, if only because I don't have to worry as much.

That is a great area. But you are very rigid in not believing anyone who has not felt the same as you. I have never felt afraid walking around at night that I remember, and I have lived here 35years.