The Exploitation of Trayvon Martin

[Ellen Stuttle]

Is it reasonable to assume Trayvon listened to rap music?

Does anybody pay attention to the lyrics?

The macho posturing and the gansta "I'll fuck you up if you mess with me" attitude?

That suddenly brought to my mind the image of Cyrus laughing at his captors, and before that charging off as the sure-shot big-game hunter, all of which Rand found glorious.

Ellen

[caroljane]

...in a strange place.

Again Carol, you insist on saying that this was a "strange place."

It was not a strange place to Travon, since his father lived there and he frequented the development regularly, or, so we are led to believe.

A....

I should have said "a place where he was not known" as obviously he was not to Zimmerman and vice versa.

[caroljane]

Is it reasonable to assume Trayvon listened to rap music?

Does anybody pay attention to the lyrics?

The macho posturing and the gansta "I'll fuck you up if you mess with me" attitude?

That suddenly brought to my mind the image of Cyrus laughing at his captors, and before that charging off as the sure-shot big-game hunter, all of which Rand found glorious.

Ellen

And Dagny shot the guard.

[caroljane]

I can believe that in killing Martin, Zimmerman was upholding his highest values, and I think his highest values sucked.

[Selene]

...and I think his highest values sucked.

Ah, his highest value about being a good family man?

His highest value about defending a homeless man from abuse?

His highest value about volunteering to keep his community safe?

Those values sucked?

[caroljane]

As I have heard no evidence that his family, or a homeless man was being threatened by Martin, I posit that Zimmerman killed him to uphold the self-image of George Zimmerman/

[9thdoctor]

I wasnt there so I cannot know what was in his mind except from the high pitched screams of a person who was in fear for their life. I think the evidence shows that was the voice of the survivor.

IMO the screamer probably was Martin, who saw the gun pointed at him and realized in that split second that he was about to die. But it doesn't make any difference, once the gun was out it was too late, if we grant that Zimmerman was on the ground having just had his head hit the pavement, with his attacker (er, opponent) hovering over him.

The way I see this case, the prosecution has to prove beyond a reasonable doubt that Zimmerman started the fight in order to convict. The evidence simply doesn't support that, not even on a preponderance of the evidence standard, it's not even close. This trial should never have happened. And wouldn't have happened if it weren't for political pressure, coming all the way from the White House.

[Selene]

As I have heard no evidence that his family, or a homeless man was being threatened by Martin, I posit that Zimmerman killed him in defence of the self-image of George Zimmerman/

Zimmerman took up the cause of a homeless man, Trevon Martin did not exist to him when he did.

George Zimmerman Championed Black Homeless Man Beaten by Cop’s Son

The establishment narrative that George Zimmerman shot Trayvon Martin not because he objected to having his head bashed against the sidewalk but because he is a racist is falling apart. From a letter to Turner Clayton of the Seminole County NAACP by someone who has to stay anonymous for now to avoid being lynched by the bloodthirsty mob whipped up by Al Sharpton and the “mainstream” media:

You will recall the incident of the beating of the black homeless man Sherman Ware on December 4, 2010 by the son of a Sanford police officer. The beating sparked outrage in the community but there were very few that stepped up to do anything about it. … Do you know the individual who stepped up when no one else in the black community would? Do you know who spent tireless hours putting flyers on the cars of persons parked in the churches of the black community? Do you know who waited for the church-goers to get out of church so that he could hand them flyers in an attempt to organize the black community against this horrible miscarriage of justice? Do you know who helped organize the City Hall meeting on January 8, 2011 at Sanford City Hall?? That person was GEORGE ZIMMERMAN. Ironic isn’t it?

Kinda screws up your pre-judged narrative about him, doesn't it?

[caroljane]

As I have heard no evidence that his family, or a homeless man was being threatened by Martin, I posit that Zimmerman killed him in defence of the self-image of George Zimmerman/

Zimmerman took up the cause of a homeless man, Trevon Martin did not exist to him when he did.

George Zimmerman Championed Black Homeless Man Beaten by Cop’s Son

The establishment narrative that George Zimmerman shot Trayvon Martin not because he objected to having his head bashed against the sidewalk but because he is a racist is falling apart. From a letter to Turner Clayton of the Seminole County NAACP by someone who has to stay anonymous for now to avoid being lynched by the bloodthirsty mob whipped up by Al Sharpton and the “mainstream” media:

You will recall the incident of the beating of the black homeless man Sherman Ware on December 4, 2010 by the son of a Sanford police officer. The beating sparked outrage in the community but there were very few that stepped up to do anything about it. … Do you know the individual who stepped up when no one else in the black community would? Do you know who spent tireless hours putting flyers on the cars of persons parked in the churches of the black community? Do you know who waited for the church-goers to get out of church so that he could hand them flyers in an attempt to organize the black community against this horrible miscarriage of justice? Do you know who helped organize the City Hall meeting on January 8, 2011 at Sanford City Hall?? That person was GEORGE ZIMMERMAN. Ironic isn’t it?

Kinda screws up your pre-judged narrative about him, doesn't it?

No Adam, apparently you have not read my posts either. I never said Zimmerman was a racist and I have repeatedly said that the case is only about race to outsiders. That Trayvon was black was simply a component of the "potential burglar" profile in the watchman's mind. Zimmerman could be a model citizen and family saint,and the defence will soon proclaim that he is. But he killed an unarmed stranger and it is not yet clear exactly how that happened.

[Selene]

No Adam, apparently you have not read my posts either. I never said Zimmerman was a racist and I have repeatedly said that the case is only about race to outsiders. That Trayvon was black was simply a component of the "potential burglar" profile in the watchman's mind. Zimmerman could be a model citizen and family saint,and the defence will soon proclaim that he is. But he killed an unarmed stranger and it is not yet clear exactly how that happened.

I read your posts very carefully.

You stated that: "I think his highest values sucked."

You judged him and yet you knew nothing about his background.

This reminds me of that poor African American/person of color/black stripper who was savagely raped by those rich, privileged white La Cross players at Duke University...

oops, she wasn't raped, and she lied, and they were viscously and unjustly savaged by folks that pre-judged them also. Kinda like your son.

A...

[caroljane]

No Adam, apparently you have not read my posts either. I never said Zimmerman was a racist and I have repeatedly said that the case is only about race to outsiders. That Trayvon was black was simply a component of the "potential burglar" profile in the watchman's mind. Zimmerman could be a model citizen and family saint,and the defence will soon proclaim that he is. But he killed an unarmed stranger and it is not yet clear exactly how that happened.

I read your posts very carefully.

You stated that: "I think his highest values sucked."

You judged him and yet you knew nothing about his background.

This reminds me of that poor African American/person of color/black stripper who was savagely raped by those rich, privileged white La Cross players at Duke University...

oops, she wasn't raped, and she lied, and they were viscously and unjustly savaged by folks that pre-judged them also. Kinda like your son.

A...

No, not like my son at all. Nobody ever accused my son of harming them or committing a crime that they saw. The police lied about his being a viable suspect.

As a logic teacher you should know about false analogy.

[caroljane]

Oh, I misremembered - it was rhetoric, not logic n'estce-pas?

Figures!

[Darrell Hougen]

Carol,

I've been reading your posts too, and it really sounds like you have it in for Zimmerman. I don't think you're being fair to him. I just see Zimmerman as an overly ambitious law-and-order nerd who got himself into a situation he couldn't handle. Trayvon probably got mad that he was being followed and decided to teach Zimmerman a lesson, not knowing that Zimmerman had a gun. The rest, as they say, is history. Do you have a more plausible scenario?

Darrell

[Selene]

Oh, I misremembered - it was rhetoric, not logic n'estce-pas?

Figures!

First of all one of the three forms of proof in rhetoric is logos which is logic. Specifically syllogistic logic.

Secondly, let's see. The police lied about your son. The police, according to George Zimmerman, lied about the son of a police officer not beating a homeless black man and publicly testified about it. Hmmm.

Nah, nothing to see here. George is someone whose "highest values suck!"

Wish I had that crystal ball where you can see into someone's mind...

[caroljane]

Misdirection, great trick.

[BaalChatzaf]

Carol,

I've been reading your posts too, and it really sounds like you have it in for Zimmerman. I don't think you're being fair to him. I just see Zimmerman as an overly ambitious law-and-order nerd who got himself into a situation he couldn't handle. Trayvon probably got mad that he was being followed and decided to teach Zimmerman a lesson, not knowing that Zimmerman had a gun. The rest, as they say, is history. Do you have a more plausible scenario?

Darrell

There is no doubt that Zimmerman killed another person. Now he has some 'splainin to do.

Ba'al Chatzaf

[Selene]

There is no doubt that Zimmerman killed another person. Now he has some 'splainin to do.

No, he need say nothing at all. The asshole DA overcharged.

[Selene]

Secondly, as to the main stream and secondary media seeking riots, I will assemble that later today for you.

http://As we reported earlier today, scores of Twitter users have threatened to riot and loot if George Zimmerman is acquitted. Other prominent voices have also warned of potential civil unrest, including former Chicago police officer Paul Huebl, who said that he fully expects “organized race rioting to begin in every major city to dwarf the Rodney King and the Martin Luther King riots of past decades” if Zimmerman walks. With police already going door to door to calm Sanford residents in anticipation of unrest, some are worried that social disorder could be used as a pretext for gun confiscation in a similar vein to how Hurricane Katrina was used as a justification to disarm residents of New Orleans.

As we reported earlier today, scores of Twitter users have threatened to riot and loot if George Zimmerman is acquitted.

Other prominent voices have also warned of potential civil unrest, including former Chicago police officer Paul Huebl, who said that he fully expects “organized race rioting to begin in every major city to dwarf the Rodney King and the Martin Luther King riots of past decades” if Zimmerman walks.

With police already going door to door to calm Sanford residents in anticipation of unrest, some are worried that social disorder could be used as a pretext for gun confiscation in a similar vein to how Hurricane Katrina was used as a justification to disarm residents of New Orleans.

This is just the tip of the ice berg...

[caroljane]

Secondly, as to the main stream and secondary media seeking riots, I will assemble that later today for you.

http://As we reported earlier today, scores of Twitter users have threatened to riot and loot if George Zimmerman is acquitted. Other prominent voices have also warned of potential civil unrest, including former Chicago police officer Paul Huebl, who said that he fully expects “organized race rioting to begin in every major city to dwarf the Rodney King and the Martin Luther King riots of past decades” if Zimmerman walks. With police already going door to door to calm Sanford residents in anticipation of unrest, some are worried that social disorder could be used as a pretext for gun confiscation in a similar vein to how Hurricane Katrina was used as a justification to disarm residents of New Orleans.

As we reported earlier today, scores of Twitter users have threatened to riot and loot if George Zimmerman is acquitted.

Other prominent voices have also warned of potential civil unrest, including former Chicago police officer Paul Huebl, who said that he fully expects “organized race rioting to begin in every major city to dwarf the Rodney King and the Martin Luther King riots of past decades” if Zimmerman walks.

With police already going door to door to calm Sanford residents in anticipation of unrest, some are worried that social disorder could be used as a pretext for gun confiscation in a similar vein to how Hurricane Katrina was used as a justification to disarm residents of New Orleans.

This is just the tip of the ice berg...

Alex Jones reports on twitter users... this is the media that is fueling riots?

[Dglgmut]

Thanks Darrell, of course it is about actions, but it is very much about feelings, Zimmerman's feelings. He needs to prove he felt deadly fear of Martin.

No he doesn't. It's about what is reasonable. If someone initiates potentially deadly violence, they are putting themselves at risk of potentially dying (just like their target).

I don't care how he felt--if his life was in danger it was in danger and he had the right to defend himself.

[Selene]

Alex Jones reports on twitter users... this is the media that is fueling riots?

No Carol, that was just an example.

http://www.infowars.com/sanford-police-chief-fears-violence-in-response-to-zimmerman-verdict/ <<<<this article from Jones quotes the Sanford Police Chief.

There are numerous main stream media folks who were on the air yesterday salivating about potential riots.

A...

[Dglgmut]

These are just some comedic radio personalities talking about the trial and making offensive jokes, but they have some good points.

Jim Norton comes up with a theory that the reason why "cracker" (as in, "creepy ass cracker") was removed from the audio in CNN's footage of the testimony--not bleeped, but inconspicuously edited out--is because it does not fit the narrative of Zimmerman being a racist predator. They played what they claimed was Zimmerman saying "coon" repeatedly, which turned out to be false, but none-the-less, they did not have a problem with that little epithet.

Afterward one of the hosts makes an important observation, that what the media wants, the story they are most incentivivised to tell... well, let me just quote him: "They want a white guy to have shot a black unarmed child over nothing but his overzealousness and racism."

Every group can become engaged in white on black racism. Blacks can get angry, whites can try to keep up with the black anger as not to become a target themselves, and every other race can pick a side (as the late Patrice O'neal told us).

White people are so cocky they think it is their job to fix other races' problems. That didn't follow from the last paragraph, but it's true anyway.

[Dglgmut]

A post from YouTube (incredulousgemini):

"I wonder if it has dawned on the jury that they have been framed? The State is shameless. They dropped their little 'hot potato' in the juror's lap. To take off on a trope from Juan Martinez, the jury should not allow themselves to be forced to carry the State's hot potato for them. Someone on that panel, in my world, ought to find some way to create a mistrial. I'd be damned if I would give the State the luxury to make me the LOSER either way this case goes down!"

[caroljane]

Daunce wrote:

In Old Man Taylor's maunderings about collectivism and individualism, he has failed to note that Zimmerman did not; apparently perceive Martin as an individual; his first words to the stranger were not "who are you?" but "what are you doing here?" This says to me that he had already decided who and what Martin was. Again in the prosecution's words, he had profiled him.

end quote

That is a stretch, Carol. The word “you” means he was talking to an individual. “What are you!” would signify seeing Godzilla, so, "what are you doing here?" is in no way racist

Peter

Here you make my point for me, Peter. Zimmerman looked at Trayvon Martin, and he saw Godzilla.

[Dglgmut]

Carol, you know when you look at a person, a stranger, you see something. You summon all the generalizations you've learn to live by to help you make an educated guess as to what that person is about. Why? Because if you didn't do that you'd have people going up to gang members in rough areas and asking for directions to Bed Bath and Beyond.

Yes, he saw something. He saw a suspicious looking punk looking into people's windows.