MAGA-Trump Movement 2021 And Beyond

[Peter]

Between 400 and 450 people showed up for the newest protest. Yawn. I condemn the violence on that January day and I hope the 60 or so (still in jail,) most violent protesters get justice, for their rioting, assault with deadly weapons, maiming, and attempted murder. Peter

September 18, 2021 from ABC News: . . . .Most of the roughly 60 who remain behind bars are suspects prosecutors and judges have identified as posing a credible and ongoing threat to the public's safety . . . . Many of the same far-right groups and individuals who promoted the original Jan. 6 rally-turned insurrection this time warned supporters to avoid the demonstration at all costs. Former President Donald Trump called it a "setup" but also released a statement supporting those charged . . . . Rally organizer lays out 'ground rules'

Rally organizer Matt Braynard laid out "some ground rules" at the start of the protest, urging the crowd to be respectful of law enforcement. "There are uniformed officers here who I demand that you respect, you are kind to, you're respectful to and you're obedient to," he said. "They're here to keep us safe." He condemned the violence of the insurrection while calling for transparency in the investigation of the Jan. 6 riot. “Anybody who engaged in that kind of violence or property destruction that day deserves to be tried with a speedy trial," he said.

[tmj]

It's pretty clear that the rioting on Jan 6 was orchestrated and most likely aided and abetting by some alphabet agencies. One very telling point is that leaders of the groups that purportedly conspired and coordinated the fakesurrection are not themselves charged and most if not all of them have some ties to federal agencies.

The only death that day that was a direct result of violence was Ashli Babbit and she was killed by law enforcement.

'Nobody' showed up yesterday because there isn't 'anybody'. Not in the way the narrative wants to convince there are.

[Peter]

TMJ wrote: ‘Nobody' showed up yesterday because there isn't 'anybody'. Not in the way the narrative wants to convince there are. end quote

What an astounding accusation. Remember Rand’s article, “Cashing in on the Student Rebellion”? I am not convinced the main conspirators were government agents who urged mayhem. Show us the proof.

And just as I am against all groups that initiate violence like crime bosses, their cohorts and outlaw motorcycle gangs that kill, maim, and steal, I am against all forms of violent insurrection and rioting. Those activities should never be glamorized in correspondence or the arts, like with “The Sopranos”’ or biker movies.

There is a movement around the country to no longer emphasize memorabilia or statues of Civil War and enslavers or instigators, and while I am for “history” it should not be honored with a statue. How many statues does Germany have of Adolf Hitler? People who wanted to enslave others and despised our Constitution, AND violently wanted to continue on with their crimes do not require or need a monument. Peter

[ThatGuy]

12 minutes ago, Peter said:

TMJ wrote: ‘Nobody' showed up yesterday because there isn't 'anybody'. Not in the way the narrative wants to convince there are. end quote

What an astounding accusation. Remember Rand’s article, “Cashing in on the Student Rebellion”? I am not convinced the main conspirators were government agents who urged mayhem. Show us the proof.

And just as I am against all groups that initiate violence like crime bosses, their cohorts and outlaw motorcycle gangs that kill, maim, and steal, I am against all forms of violent insurrection and rioting. Those activities should never be glamorized in correspondence or the arts, like with “The Sopranos”’ or biker movies.

There is a movement around the country to no longer emphasize memorabilia or statues of Civil War and enslavers or instigators, and while I am for “history” it should not be honored with a statue. How many statues does Germany have of Adolf Hitler? People who wanted to enslave others and despised our Constitution, AND violently wanted to continue on with their crimes do not require or need a monument. Peter

"If you approve of beefed-up security at the Capital for a setup by the FBI, but ignore the invasion at the Texas border, you might just be a clueless rube/useful idiot". -With apologies to Jeff Foxworthy.

(I'd say that "the jab" has done a number on someone's brain pan, except that this person was like this long before that, so fuck 'em. Others can give him a "pass" all they want, but I wouldn't trust him not to report Jews hiding in an attic somewhere to the Stasi, because he didn't see the "proof" reported in the Nazi state propaganda.)

"I don't see the proof..."

Yeah, well, can't see the proof with one's head up their ass, or if one probably never cracked open a history book either to learn about the precedents.
"We didn't start the fire..."

The Reichstag fire (German: Reichstagsbrand, listen (help·info)) was an arson attack on the Reichstag building, home of the German parliament in Berlin, on Monday 27 February 1933, precisely four weeks after Adolf Hitler was sworn in as Chancellor of Germany. Hitler's government stated that Marinus van der Lubbe, a Dutch council communist, was the culprit, and it attributed the fire to communist agitators. A German court decided later that year that Van der Lubbe had acted alone, as he had claimed. The day after the fire, the Reichstag Fire Decree was passed. The Nazi Party used the fire as a pretext to claim that communists were plotting against the German government, which made the fire pivotal in the establishment of Nazi Germany.

Reichstag fire - Wikipedia

EN.WIKIPEDIA.ORG

 

[Peter]

"If you approve of beefed-up security at the Capital for a setup by the FBI, but ignore the invasion at the Texas border, you might just be a clueless rube/useful idiot". -With apologies to Jeff Foxworthy.

Ignore the Texas border? Is that an attempt at "slight of hand."  I have no idea what you are talking about. Where’s your proof about the FBI instigating the riot? If there were government employees there, it was undercover. That’s a real job. None of them tried to kill or put the eye out of any policemen or security person, though I think a couple of soldiers were participating in the riot. I have no doubt they had a “talk” with their superiors back on base.  

[Michael Stuart Kelly]

2 hours ago, Peter said:

... I hope the 60 or so (still in jail,) most violent protesters get justice...

Peter,

Guilty or not, which is a matter for the courts, holding people in jail for 6 months and longer--some in solitary confinement--without charging them is not justice in the American sense of the word.

That's banana republic stuff.

The good news is that Sidney Powell and several other attorneys are going to make those victims of abuse of power extremely wealthy in the end at the expense of the American government.

Michael

[ThatGuy]

57 minutes ago, Peter said:

Ignore the Texas border? Is that an attempt at "slight of hand."  I have no idea what you are talking about.

WOW. Of course. he doesn't know, though I didn't expect his ignorance to be that bad.  American Pravda really did a number on him. Still, one could waste time and effort showing him the footage, and he still wouldn't believe it. "None so blind as those who will not see..." 'Nuff said.

[william.scherk]

1 hour ago, Michael Stuart Kelly said:

[H]olding people in jail for 6 months and longer--some in solitary confinement--without charging them

Can we find a few names to put with this claim? "Without charging them" ... is surely unconstitutional. 

Here's someone who was just told she has to stay in custody:

Quote

 

[...] NBC 4 Washington’s Scott McFarlane posted on Twitter that Bauer claims she is a “sovereign citizen” ie one of the growing movement of people who believe that laws do not apply to them. During the hearing, she told the judge that she is not subject to the court’s supervision and denied its authority to hold her in custody. “I have a right to my self-determination,” she told the judge, adding: “I do not agree to any tacit agreement that puts me back in the water. I am on the land.”

US District Judge Trevor McFadden did not accept Ms Bauer’s arguments. He told her: “I don’t want to lock you up [...] I’m not concerned about you being a danger to the community but I am very concerned about you being willing to comply with your conditions of release.”

The judgment provoked a furious response from Ms Bauer, who was taken from the courtroom screaming: “No! I’m not going back to jail! Why are you doing this?”

Ms Bauer has been charged with non-violent misdemeanor offences connected with the January 6 Capitol riots. The Daily Mail reports that body camera footage showed her shouting at a police officer: “Bring Nancy Pelosi out here now … we want to hang that f***ing b****”.

“You bring them out or we’re coming in,” she is reported to have said, according to the transcript of a police body camera. “Bring them out now. They’re criminals. They need to hang.”

[...]

 

Who are the six officers?  

 

[Michael Stuart Kelly]

1 minute ago, william.scherk said:

"Without charging them" ... is surely unconstitutional. 

William,

Damn right.

Eventually charging them doesn't wipe out the months of incarceration without charging them.

And some, who would have been granted huge payouts (after a long court battle), like the Buffalo Horn shaman dude, ended up pleading guilty to a trumped up minor charge to get minimum punishment. That was after being held for a long time without being charged. They wore him down.

Of those now being charged, have you noticed the plethora of misdemeanors? 

I can't think of a single misdemeanor that justifies months of incarceration without charges and solitary confinement.

Michael

[Michael Stuart Kelly]

1 hour ago, ThatGuy said:

WOW. Of course. he doesn't know...

TG,

Peter's a good guy. Seriously, he's one of the good guys.

Each person needs their own time to separate from trusted elements in their lives.

Peter still trusts the sources he consults. He's said so openly. I believe the idea of them betraying him comes with the emotional charge of thinking about his wife betraying him.

It's something inconceivable.

So it's hard.

But people at large are getting deluged with so many lies and misbehavior by those in charge (including the fake news media), they are coming around. Peter has a good mind, so I have no doubt he will end up seeing many truths even though the narrative of those he trusts say otherwise.

That belief in sources is what the oligarchy has been counting on for most people. Rather than argue with people, they simply corrupted the sources. And that's hard to accept for most people. Not intellectually. On a deeper level.

But the truth eventually shines through. Remember how long it took for people to realize the good Trump was doing as President? And even so, some still think he's a Russian spy.

I would never want Peter, or anyone on OL for that matter, to bear false witness to his mind in order to succumb to peer pressure.

It just takes time and patience. And there are no guarantees. But in general, the truth eventually takes root in the minds of most people of good will no matter how hard it is to accept at first. To me, Peter is one such person of good will.

Michael

[ThatGuy]

44 minutes ago, Michael Stuart Kelly said:

TG,

Peter's a good guy. Seriously, he's one of the good guys.

Each person needs their own time to separate from trusted elements in their lives.

Peter still trusts the sources he consults. He's said so openly. I believe the idea of them betraying him comes with the emotional charge of thinking about his wife betraying him.

It's something inconceivable.

So it's hard.

But people at large are getting deluged with so many lies and misbehavior by those in charge (including the fake news media), they are coming around. Peter has a good mind, so I have no doubt he will end up seeing many truths even though the narrative of those he trusts say otherwise.

That belief in sources is what the oligarchy has been counting on for most people. Rather than argue with people, they simply corrupted the sources. And that's hard to accept for most people. Not intellectually. On a deeper level.

But the truth eventually shines through. Remember how long it took for people to realize the good Trump was doing as President? And even so, some still think he's a Russian spy.

I would never want Peter, or anyone on OL for that matter, to bear false witness to his mind in order to succumb to peer pressure.

It just takes time and patience. And there are no guarantees. But in general, the truth eventually takes root in the minds of most people of good will no matter how hard it is to accept at first. To me, Peter is one such person of good will.

Michael

I get all that. But it has to work both ways. And his constant jabs, projections, and evasions, and constant, proudly stated refusals to even consider any evidence presented to him border on gaslighting when he insists on denying us the same consideration of our own judgements. Not to mention his usage of terms like calling us morons, casting doubts on our rationality, and our Objectivist credentials, even. (Make of the latter's worth what one will, but it is enough that he thinks it means something. ) So while your intent is noble, it's not I who need such a speech, but him, because he knows damn well what he's saying, and how he is saying it. As long as he continues to mock and ridicule, going out of his way to interject his views to undercut what others say here when presenting info and evidence, while also promoting fear ("get the Jab or die" in his literal words), the responses he gets, he earns. He claims he is  rejecting quack info, but he also rejects proven fact, or ignores it when presented. And that is both intellectually dishonest and gaslighting.

 

( You can say he's a good guy, but his actions betray that trust. And how many people did Trump call good, only to stab him on the back? ) If he's got issues, well, so do I, and I personally won't stand for his gaslighting. I've experienced the effects of gaslighting in the past, and I can't allow that for myself again. And I have experienced the actions of the "tolerant left" firsthand to know better than to give blind trust, let alone tolerate someone giving them support. Wolf in sheep's clothing and all that. Fool me once...

 

(In a nutshell: if he can dish it out, he better expect to take it.)

[Peter]

45 minutes ago, Michael Stuart Kelly said:

To me, Peter is one such person of good will.

As Elvis said, "Thank you. Thank you very much." I have That SOB on hold but I sometimes go into "activity" without signing in . . . I will try to ignore IT. Sometimes I think IT must be a child.    

[Michael Stuart Kelly]

One can hope...

Is Hillary Attorney Marc Elias in Legal Jeopardy Alongside Attorney Michael Sussmann? Is This Why He Left Perkins Coie?

WWW.THEGATEWAYPUNDIT.COM

---

  Hillary attorney Marc Elias was involved in nearly every 2020 Election court case representing the Democrats.   We saw Elias in not one but two cases in Georgia with corrupt Georgia Secretary of State Brad...

Durham?

Michael

[Ellen Stuttle]

19 hours ago, ThatGuy said:

I get all that. But it has to work both ways. And his constant jabs, projections, and evasions, and constant, proudly stated refusals to even consider any evidence presented to him border on gaslighting when he insists on denying us the same consideration of our own judgements.

I've formed the suspicion over the course of the 20+ years I've participated on discussion sites where Peter's done that kind of stuff to many persons on many subjects that there's an element of deliberate provocation - intentional button-pushing - "trolling," in short - involved.

Ellen

[william.scherk]

22 hours ago, william.scherk said:

23 hours ago, Michael Stuart Kelly said:

[H]olding people in jail for 6 months and longer--some in solitary confinement--without charging them

Can we find a few names to put with this claim? "Without charging them" ... is surely unconstitutional. 

Jacob Chansley ... habeus corpus et deliriare

Capitol Breach Cases | USAO-DC | Department of Justice

 

[Peter]

Ever notice that when things don’t go their way, some people insist they have evidence of the opposite being true? That is what Eric Hoffer called “The True Believer.”  “. . .  Whether intended to be cultural, ideological, religious, or whatever else, Hoffer argues that mass movements are broadly interchangeable even when their stated goals or values differ dramatically. This makes sense, in the author's view, given the frequent similarities between them in terms of the psychological influences on its adherents . . . .” 

[Marc]

All I know is that we are having an election here today, and I would like to wish PM Trudeau tremendous luck in his next career! 

[william.scherk]

A graphic of last-minute guesses from pollsters a couple of days ago --courtesy of Andrew Coyne ...

Detail:

"Advanced Symbolics" is the outlier in the mix. Unlike any other firm offering prognostications, they don't survey any prospective voters. They say theirs was the only Canadian outfit to accurately predict the 2016 US Presidential election, the 2019 Canadian federal election, and Brexit.  

I think I will stick with my previous wild guess of ~150 for the Conservatives. We will probably know the final seat totals a few days after polls close, due to a larger than usual amount of mailed-in ballots expected. Nothing gets counted until the polls close. 

Not a particularly exciting election, except for the rock-throwing.

Canadian Federal Election Trends - ASI

ADVANCEDSYMBOLICS.COM

---

Canadian Federal Election Trends Polly’s predicted outcome, based on the measured sentiment of Canadians, for the next federal...

 

Edited September 20, 2021 by william.scherk
Added link/embed to Advanced Symbolics ...

[Jules Troy]

Should have used bigger rocks!

I mean I don’t condone violence against retards..

[Marc]

59 minutes ago, william.scherk said:

A graphic of last-minute guesses from pollsters a couple of days ago --courtesy of Andrew Coyne ...

Detail:

"Advanced Symbolics" is the outlier in the mix. Unlike any other firm offering prognostications, they don't survey any prospective voters. They say theirs was the only Canadian outfit to accurately predict the 2016 US Presidential election, the 2019 Canadian federal election, and Brexit.  

I think I will stick with my previous wild guess of ~150 for the Conservatives. We will probably know the final seat totals a few days after polls close, due to a larger than usual amount of mailed-in ballots expected. Nothing gets counted until the polls close. 

Not a particularly exciting election, except for the rock-throwing.

Canadian Federal Election Trends - ASI

ADVANCEDSYMBOLICS.COM

---

Canadian Federal Election Trends Polly’s predicted outcome, based on the measured sentiment of Canadians, for the next federal...

 

Sure hope you're right! 

[Peter]

6 hours ago, Marc said:

Sure hope you're right! 

How did it go? The news looks ho hum.

[Michael Stuart Kelly]

It looks like Canada's own Deep State learned how to pull off the nationwide election cheat.

Canadian Media Project Liberal Justin Trudeau Survived Snap Elections

WWW.BREITBART.COM

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As early returns pour in from the election, Canadian media have projected that Prime Minister Justin Trudeau will hold onto his seat.

I hope I'm wrong.

Michael

[ThatGuy]

16 hours ago, Peter said:

Ever notice that when things don’t go their way, some people insist they have evidence of the opposite being true? That is what Eric Hoffer called “The True Believer.”  “. . .  Whether intended to be cultural, ideological, religious, or whatever else, Hoffer argues that mass movements are broadly interchangeable even when their stated goals or values differ dramatically. This makes sense, in the author's view, given the frequent similarities between them in terms of the psychological influences on its adherents . . . .” 

Cult? Pot. Kettle. Black.

"Grey skys are gonna clear up! Put on a masky face!
Cover your arms with Covid shots! Put on a masky face!
Don't think; just do! 
Take the jab or DIE!
And just do what the doctor tells you!
And put on a masky faaaaccceee!!!"

"My Childhood in a Cult Prepared Me for COVID-19 Lockdown

"I stayed indoors and away from people. I even sacrificed walks in the open air. To me, the lockdown was like a kind of solitary monk-like cell confinement, and I was proud of my discipline.

"I slipped right back into my old default judgment of rule-breakers, too, condemning the unmasked, the improperly masked, and the toilet paper hoarders with ice-cold glares.

"I felt my paranoia of “infection” also returning. In the cult, 'beware of the infected' meant always being on the lookout for the morally impure."

My Childhood in a Cult Prepared Me for COVID-19 Lockdown

WWW.ZOCALOPUBLICSQUARE.ORG

---

I can vividly recall the final time I hugged friends before the lockdown. We were crowded in the velvety closeness of a dark music venue...

 

[Marc]

7 hours ago, Peter said:

How did it go? The news looks ho hum.

Looks a lot worse than ho hum, maybe I should look for another day job rather than calling elections, grrrrrrŕrr.

Time to eat even more crow.

[tmj]

In the vein of empathetic solidarity , I'll have a slice of pie also, but I'm gonna make it wet bottom shoofly pie , cuz you know crow , ick