Natanyahu Lowers the Boom

[Selene]

oops

[Mikee]

http://www.jewsnews.co.il/2014/07/26/major-news-out-of-israel-it-was-an-errant-hamas-rocket-that-hit-the-un-school-ooooops/

Very interesting , so a Hamas bomb hit the UN school , not an Israeli bomb

Of course. I never thought any different. I also think most likely Hamas did it on purpose for the media. Another "Pallywood" production. The kids will be martyrs and go to heaven right? And their parents will be paid off? What's not to like. Wonderful publicity, more aid for more tunnels.

[BaalChatzaf]

Bravo

[moralist]

Can you agree with that?

Sure I can, Adam...

...if

See Greg, of you chose to, you should think about your answers.

My question was categorical...

Yes, or, no.

I did think about my answer and was perfectly clear, Adam.

It is no... because how we live creates the government we get is obviously NOT the prevailing paradigm in America.

For if it was... there would only be a small minimal government because people would be governing themselves like Americans.

But they don't... and so it isn't.

Greg

[moralist]

The contrast in moral values between Israel and Hamas is so clear.

It is literally a war between good and evil.

Greg

[Backlighting]

The contrast in moral values between Israel and Hamas is so clear.

It is literally a war between good and evil.

Greg

It's also a war between primitives and the civilized.

[Jules Troy]

http://www.katenews2day.com/joan-rivers-defends-israel-blasts-biased-cnn-and-bbc-for-blaming-israel-while-ignoring-hamas-the-real-terror-group/

Go girl!

[moralist]

You think Rivers is something? Get a load of Howard Stern defending Israel! .

WARNING********PROFANITY**********WARNING

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YDp_dz2bP78&feature=player_embedded

Regardless of the language... in my opinion Howard is spot on.

Greg

[Marc]

From a friend of mine , who actually is an Objectivist . He said its ok to post this here - which was on Facebook .

**************************************

From most of the posts and comments I've seen about the Israel-Palestine conflict, it appears that most of my friends are on the right side, but their reasons are either very diverse, unorganized, or just trivial, like for example: I support Israel because I'm Jewish, yay Jews! Nevertheless, a common thread among people (and even my friends here on Facebook) is either to dismiss the religious argument altogether or to dismiss Islam altogether as a religion of death/destruction. This is not enough for me, and as a result I feel obliged to state my position for the record.

I don't support Israel because it's a political oasis amid a sea of chaos and destruction. I don't support them because they are free/successful/more rational/more self interested. I support Israel on epistemological grounds, not because they are Jewish, but because they uphold the most secular religion known to man, which is the cause of their other successes. I support them because they know it, because they take pride in this heritage, and because they want to defend themselves against mystical primitives who want to destroy them for the very same reason. This is the cause of their success, freedom and all other achievements that Jewish people have made throughout history.

So that's my reason. The rest follows from it. But having said that, Israel is not perfect. If I were to advise them, I'd tell them to annihilate with full force their acknowledged enemy and not to be ashamed of it. To say to the Palestinians and the world: we will not permit Hamas to exist. We will eliminate them. You can be a part of that or not, we don't care. You were free to choose your own course and you've chosen destruction, and we are going to grant you it.

[Marc]

Not really sure why we need Muslim experts to clarify reality . What do they say , A is A ?

[PDS]

Not really sure why we need Muslim experts to clarify reality . What do they say , A is A ?

Ironically--given the first post that started this thread--I would be willing to bet that this too is a hoax.

[Michael Stuart Kelly]

Ironically--given the first post that started this thread--I would be willing to bet that this too is a hoax.

David,

Your statement shows to me the power of core story.

On a cursory Google search, I managed to uncover a video of this guy talking. It's not in English so I don't know what he is saying, but from the YouTube comments, it aligns with the information in Marc's post. (Note EDIT: Oops. I had just skipped around in the video when I wrote that. There is actually an English translator who speaks for a while and confirms the message.)

I'm not pointing a finger at you, though. I'm just fascinated by what causes our kneejerk reactions. And I believe it falls mostly in the core stories in the culture.

A Sheikh and Jordanian scholar who would say such things? Ridiculous! That's like the bearded lady with two heads in a carnival or a backwater Christian spouting Nietzsche's "God is dead" as the true path to salvation!

Except, from what I can tell, Sheikh Ahmad Adwan exists. Granted, when you Google his name, there is an excess of fringe anti-Islamic groups crowing right now, but I was able to come up with something from FrontPage Mag. Agree or disagree with David Horowitz (the owner), he is always well-sourced. I seriously doubt he would allow something like this to be published without checking to see if it is a hoax. And notice this was published in February.

Muslim Scholar: “Allah Gave Israel to the Jews”, “Palestinians are the Killers of Children”

by Daniel Greenfield

February 8, 2014

FrontPage Mag

This gut reaction of the metaphysical wrongness of the good Sheikhs's pronouncements (meaning his words do not go with his identity in the manner a dog does not meow) shows just how little we get about Arabian cultures in our mainstream. I admit to having a little of that reaction myself and I have lived among Arabs.

Michael

[PDS]

Excellent points, MSK. And I trust Horowitz enough to believe his sources.

You gave me far too much credit, however, for the basis of my knee jerk reaction: I have doubts that a scholar of the kind referenced by Marc would actually be allowed to live. In other words, it would be surprising to me that a scholar would be allowed to say such things in that culture/religious milieu and not find himself promptly dispatched to the Arabian afterlife.

But I admit that mine was a knee jerk reaction. 100%.

[william.scherk]

Agree or disagree with David Horowitz (the owner), he is always well-sourced. I seriously doubt he would allow something like this to be published without checking to see if it is a hoax. And notice this was published in February.

Muslim Scholar: “Allah Gave Israel to the Jews”, “Palestinians are the Killers of Children”

by Daniel Greenfield

February 8, 2014

FrontPage Mag

This gut reaction of the metaphysical wrongness of the good Sheikhs's pronouncements (meaning his words do not go with his identity in the manner a dog does not meow) shows just how little we get about Arabian cultures in our mainstream. I admit to having a little of that reaction myself and I have lived among Arabs.

Michael is right. The tribal sheik is a friend of Israel, travels from Jordan to Israel (enjoying the peace treaty which allows such movements), and proclaims his beliefs on his Facebook page, like any other sheik(!).** It's hard to know his reputation as a scholar, though some Islamic sources do indeed support his interpretation.

This is the first of two Koran verses said to give Israel to the Jews until the End Days, Sura 5, verse 21, as cited in the Front Page article. I've read the context quotes above and below from the fifth chapter of the book (here, at one of many sites reproducing the entire thing). It is by no means clear to me just what the hell is being decided and promised and justified. The quote within the verse is purported to be that of Moses himself ...

O my people, enter the Holy Land which Allah has assigned to you and do not turn back [from fighting in Allah 's cause] and [thus] become losers."

Here's some further reporting on the sheik from the Jerusalem Online site.

[...] according to numerous Arabic media sources that were translated into English on the Elders of Zion blog.

“I say to those who distort their Lord’s book, the Koran: From where did you bring the name Palestine, you liars, you accursed, when Allah has already named it “The Holy Land” and bequeathed it to the Children of Israel until the Day of Judgment,” the Sheikh stated.

“There is no such thing as 'Palestine' in the Koran. Your demand for the Land of Israel is a falsehood and it constitutes an attack on the Koran, on the Jews and their land. Therefore you won’t succeed, and Allah will fail you and humiliate you, because Allah is the one who will protect them (i.e. the Jews).”

The sheikh added harsh words in relations to human rights abuses within the Palestinian Authority: “The Palestinians are the killers of children, the elderly and women. They attack the Jews and then they use those (children, the elderly and women) as human shields and hide behind them, without mercy for their children as if they weren’t their own children, in order to tell the public opinion that the Jews intended to kill them.”

“This is exactly what I saw with my own two eyes in the 70’s, when they attacked the Jordanian army, which sheltered and protected them. Instead of thanking it (the Jordanian army), they brought their children forward to (face) the Jordanian army, in order to make the world believe that the army kills their children,” the Sheikh declared. “This is their habit and custom, their viciousness, their having hearts of stones towards their children, and their lying to public opinion, in order to get its support.”

The larger quote gives an indication of how fraught the "Palestinian Question" is in Jordan, and of lingering hostility to those came to Jordan as refugees/displaced persons.

The Jews News also adds a bit more information on the Sheik for analysis:

The sheikh’s words caused a storm in the Arab media, and were picked up by the Israeli Embassy in Amman.

The Arabic daily Al-Quds Al-Arabi further explained the sheikh’s position, noting that he supports the notion that Jordan is Palestine, and insists that Arabs living both in Jordan and the Palestinian Authority-controlled territories would almost all love to be Israeli citizens.

The Adwan tribe issued a statement distancing itself from Sheikh Aladoan’s remarks. But the sheikh was not intimidated, and insisted he would continue to make his voice heard on these matters.

Last year, Sheikh Aladoan visited Israel and spent time with the chief rabbi of Tsfat (Safed), Rabbi Shmuel Eliyahu. The sheikh informed Rabbi Eliyahu and his students that in the Koran, “there is no name ‘Palestine’ for this land, and therefore, the Arabs should not be fighting.

I tend to like MSK's casting forth the notion of 'core story.' In this case, a muslim accepts the core of the modern Israel story, a nation reclaiming -- in the name of its covenant -- its ancient dividend, taking that which the jewish god intended for his chosen people ...

________________

** "Sheik" is an honorific applied to the Jordanian fellow with no certain relationship to his reputation as a scholar of Islam. In this case, I think it means he is a respected elder of his tribe. My eyes cross/glaze over, generally, when Sheiks get to touting this or that verse and this or that hadith and this or that commentary. It is all a mile thick and made of the same excreta, from my humble atheist position. For those who can withstand such things, an interview with the sheik.

There is, of course, much attention paid to the sheik's citing of the Koran, and some criticism of his interpretation. Here, for example. I am thinking maybe we need Greg to cut through the clutter of interpretation and tell what it Really Means in terms simple enough for children.

Edited July 27, 2014 by william.scherk

[moralist]

I am thinking maybe we need Greg to cut through the clutter of interpretation and tell what it Really Means in terms simple enough for children.

I can only tell you what it means to me...

The Jews possess a quality like no other people. They have the ability to morally polarize the world so as to reveal people for what they truly are. To separate the sheep from the goats... the wheat from the chaff... the good people from the jewhaters.

...and everyone has chosen what they are.

"...there are two races of men in this world, but only these two—the "race" of the decent man and the "race" of the indecent man."

--Viktor Frankl

"Man's Search for Meaning"

[BaalChatzaf]

There are also a lot of confused folks. Would be decent folks who don't quite know how to be decent. Sometimes it is not easy to know.

Ba'al Chatzaf

[Marc]

totally not for this thread but MSK can put perhaps where he thinks it should be :

http://nmost.github.io/crackathon/

A new game about our soon to be defeated in the election Mayor Ford

[Marc]

Not trying to use this thread as my soapbox as a poster mentioned . Just trying to bring to light some reality about the ME . Clarify a few mistruths that were attempted here .

[caroljane]

totally not for this thread but MSK can put perhaps where he thinks it should be :

http://nmost.github.io/crackathon/

A new game about our soon to be defeated in the election Mayor Ford

Oh Marc, Marc, my fellow townsman in adversity!

It is pretty humbling when even Marion Barry scorns your political achievements,

Maybe your post should go in Canadian Boring thread, where Robo is mentioned for being a lying idiot long before we knew he had any drug problems. Maybe it should be renamed....Canadian Politics Believe it or Not?

[caroljane]

Incidentally I hope you are on board with the anti ford grassroots democratic Shirtless movement. This is an excellent nonviolent way to participate in civic life,especially for young guys, sports team members, trainee firefighters , lifeguards etc.

[Marc]

totally not for this thread but MSK can put perhaps where he thinks it should be :

http://nmost.github.io/crackathon/

A new game about our soon to be defeated in the election Mayor Ford

Oh Marc, Marc, my fellow townsman in adversity!

It is pretty humbling when even Marion Barry scorns your t achievements,

Maybe your post should go in Canadian Boring thread, where Robo is mentioned for being a lying idiot long before we knew he had any drug problems. Maybe it should be renamed....Canadian Politics Believe it or Not?

Hahahaahha !!!! Sounds perfect , lets go Flyers since Philly South ( LA ) has 2 of the last 3 Cups , grrrr

[Marc]

Incidentally I hope you are on board with the anti ford grassroots democratic Shirtless movement. This is an excellent nonviolent way to participate in civic life,especially for young guys, sports team members, trainee firefighters , lifeguards etc.

Who said I was looking for a non violent way lolol ?

[Selene]

Hmmm let me see Hockey and non-violence...what could possibly be wrong with that cocktail mix?

CHRIS GAREAU PHOTO

Two players are facing assault charges for their alleged actions during an on-ice incident during a game in Stonewall in March.

http://www.winnipegfreepress.com/local/Teen-hockey-players-facing-assault-charges-268308652.html

[Marc]

Hmmm let me see Hockey and non-violence...what could possibly be wrong with that cocktail mix?

CHRIS GAREAU PHOTO

Two players are facing assault charges for their alleged actions during an on-ice incident during a game in Stonewall in March.

http://www.winnipegfreepress.com/local/Teen-hockey-players-facing-assault-charges-268308652.html

hahahhah , yeah they go bonkers up here for this stuff

[moralist]

There are also a lot of confused folks. Would be decent folks who don't quite know how to be decent. Sometimes it is not easy to know.

Every adult knows good from evil... and every adult chooses.

Greg