Frank's Niece!

[Cathy]

If anyone one is still not believing who I am...go to my facebook page under cathy dupler. I put up a marriage license that has my maiden name, a family bible that has my father's name hand written and part of my drivers license under Dupler. ~Cathy~

[Michael Stuart Kelly]

Cathy,

I sent you a friend request.

You have a lovely family.

Are you a Christian? (Just curious.)

Michael

[Cathy]

Thank you Michael, yes, I am a Christian...I wouldn't have it any other way

[caroljane]

Thank you Michael, yes, I am a Christian...I wouldn't have it any other way

Me too Cathy, although maybe in not the way you are. I believe in the revolutionry message of Christ, whether or not he actually existed. About there being a God, I don't believe my mind is capable of knowing that.

[Michael Stuart Kelly]

There is a person posting over there named Claire. Looking at her profile to see who she was since she said she didn't post over here, I saw it is Ginny.

I tried to write to her, but all my email addresses don't work for her anymore.

If anyone has the email of Ginny Fiddler, please send me a private message or send me an email at:

mikellyusabr@yahoo.com

Thanks,

Michael

[caroljane]

Cathy,

I sent you a friend request.

You have a lovely family.

Are you a Christian? (Just curious.)

Michael

We need to request? Cripes. I just added her.

Maybe I don't have as many friends as i thought.

[caroljane]

I don't think the conversation would be allowed on OO. Cathy would very quickly be put on moderation there, or be banned, for saying some of the harmless stuff that she has said here and on solopassion.

You seem to be correct. The latest Rand news on there is about her benzedrine use in the 1940s. stop the presses.

[KacyRay]

KacyRay, you were one of my doubters weren't you? Do you believe me now? I think I've gotten over the first hurdle on everyone knowing who I am and not a so called sock puppet, or a so called troll. Now I have to sort out all this memories, that now apparently keep flooding back into my mind and can't stop. I suppressed so much...its unbelievable! But I am not going to say anymore about what I remember until I get them straight in my head. Some are fuzzy and I can't remember the years of when things happened, and I don't want the critics telling me it wasn't so. So until then, I stand firm on what I have already said...it happened and it is what it is regardless of what anyone thinks. I don't want to come away with those impressions of my uncle, because that is not the person I knew, but then again, neither was Aunt Alice. ~Cathy~

As a skeptic, I am skeptical about everything, Cathy. It isn't personal at all... like I said, I would be very happy to come away from this learning that you are exactly who you claim to be. And as I promised, I will take you at your word until and unless I find reason not to. I see no advantage in nitpicking everything you say, looking for reasons not to believe you. No one understands as well as I do how difficult it can be to put together pieces of memories from years past. Hell, I sometimes have a tough time remembering what I did yesterday.

Now, I know you probably think that a skeptic is someone who doesn't believe anything... that isn't true by any means.

A skeptic is simply someone who scales all of their beliefs to the amount of evidence available (for any given proposition). That means that, as a skeptic, I will accept your proposition (that you are Frank's niece) to the same degree of evidence I have available (which, right now, is only your word and the recollections you've shared with us here).

That doesn't mean I don't believe you. It just means that my belief is scaled to the evidence available. Again, it isn't personal - it's the same approach I take to anything anyone proposes to me.

So for now, as far as I'm concerned, you are Frank's long-lost niece. And I would like to help you sort through the social quagmire that your Aunt Alice's life has turned into, if I can help in any way.

For now, all I can do is implore you not to take anybody's word about what Barbara Branden allegedly said about your Uncle Frank. Please... read it for yourself. That's all I ask.

[Michael Stuart Kelly]

Kacy,

Cathy has an aged Facebook account in her name. Pictures. And she posted some parts of documents, including her marriage license, which gives her maiden name. She also looks like she belongs to Frank's family.

Add to this, when she appeared I did some digging and came up with Sullivan, Indiana as her residence.

It is.

She's legit.

People may not like what she says or the errors that come from old memories filtered through decades, including changing situations and family retellings (which always change details over the years), but there is no doubt in my mind, neither as Michael-person, neither as Michael-forum owner, Cathy is a real person and she is Frank's niece.

btw - I'm really glad you got your impression of Frank from Barbara's book on your own. The one you got is the same impression I got every time I read it. And I fully agree with you that Cathy should read the book to see what Barbara actually said about her uncle. If she does, I bet you she will cry out of tenderness.

Michael

[Ellen Stuttle]

I want to know if [barbara and Heller] were ever told about us.

It doesn't look as if they were ever told about you, even in the interviews with Mimi and Marna Papurt (later Mimi Sutton and Marna Wolf).

(I find no references at all to Marna in Barbara's bio. Heller's has several. Both have a number of references to Mimi and to Rand's abiding friendship with Mimi. Mimi might have been the last person who spoke with Rand -- by phone -- just before Rand died.)

Barbara flatly states that Rand had no interest in the Ohio family.

pp. 153, Passion

It was at the funeral, Mimi recalled, that most of the O'Connor family met Ayn for the first time. They found her aloof and difficult. They felt that Frank had abandoned the family after his marriage, rarely contacting them or showing concern for them, and they blamed Ayn for the loss of the brother to whom they had once been close.

Ayn was not interested in Frank's family, a fact which she did not hide from Frank. It is unlikely that she questioned him about his feelings for them; through all their lives together, she seemed always to take it as self-evident that her feelings must also be his. But had Frank spoken of his love for his family, it is equally likely that, out of her love for him, Ayn would have agreed to see them and would have been cordial and friendly; no one who knew Ayn and Frank ever saw her refuse him a firmly expressed wish. But the time had long passed when Frank spoke openly about his feelings or desires; as the world outside came to hold less and less for him, his retreat into isolation and passivity was beginning to accelerate

The last sentence ("the time had long passed") steps well out of the time frame Barbara had been talking about, which was 1938-1939. The passage does indicate, however, that insofar as Barbara was aware, the only time Ayn and Frank went to Ohio was for your grandfather's funeral.

Ellen

[KacyRay]

Michael,

Fair enough - I'll consider your research good enough for me. Thanks for the added verification.

Cathy - I'm on a ship in the Mediterranean right now, so I can't always access FB, but when I can, may I send a friend request over? With very little doubt left as to your identity, I'd be very interested to see where you life has taken you over these years. It's a pretty fascinating story that you have going on. And if you want, I can make up some war stories to tell you. - KR

[Neil Parille]

Michael,

I believe Cathy is who she says she is, as well.

I also find it curious that Rand was allegedly called (and called herself) "Alice." There doesn't seem much evidence for this. Unfortunately, Berliner left out the closings in the Letters. There are some letters to Frank's family from the 40s and 50s which do end "Auntie," or "Aunt," but he left out what was after the comma.

-Neil

[Reidy]

In her letters to FLl Wright she uses her more familiar nom de plume. My impression was that she kept her original name a secret in order to protect her family. "Alice" and "Alyssa" are far enough apart so that no one would make the connection.

[Brant Gaede]

Michael,

I believe Cathy is who she says she is, as well.

I also find it curious that Rand was allegedly called (and called herself) "Alice." There doesn't seem much evidence for this. Unfortunately, Berliner left out the closings in the Letters. There are some letters to Frank's family from the 40s and 50s which do end "Auntie," or "Aunt," but he left out what was after the comma.

-Neil

I missed the "(and called herself) 'Alice.'" Where was that?

--Brant

[Neil Parille]

Incidentally, there doesn't seem to be much indication of visits to the family in Ohio in 100 Voices, and it's a very "pro" Frank O'Connor.

Marna, Frank's niece, mentions "family visits" when Rand lived in California.

ADDITION: I did a search of the Kindle edition of 100 Voices. Ohio is mentioned about 9 times and not in context of any post 1953 visits.

-Neil Parille

[Neil Parille]

Brant,

If Cathy didn't know her as "Ayn" then Rand must have called herself "Alice" or "Aunt Alice."

BTW, my old nemesis Jim Valliant just showed up on SOLO for the first time in years.

-Neil Parille

ADDITION: There are some references to "Cousin Alice" and the like by Rand's family members in 100 Voices, early on.

[Brant Gaede]

Brant,

If Cathy didn't know her as "Ayn" then Rand must have called herself "Alice" or "Aunt Alice."

BTW, my old nemesis Jim Valliant just showed up on SOLO for the first time in years.

-Neil Parille

ADDITION: There are some references to "Cousin Alice" and the like by Rand's family members in 100 Voices, early on.

I bet he told you off!

--Brant

going to see what's left of you there

[Neil Parille]

Ms. O'Connor,

I am not able to engage online at the present, but, please, do feel free to contact me offline. (I have messaged you with my email address.)

I will just caution, however, that Mr. Parille cannot be trusted. His claim below, for example, that Dr. Peikoff "sent" me "after" the Brandens is just his most recent distortion. He has put this same "skill" to use in his attack on Frank O'Connor.

In any case, I believe that both of us might profit from an exchange of information.

Valliant apparently is referring to my review of 100 Voices, which I linked to in the previous post. In my review I didn't use the words "sent" and "after" in connection with Peikoff. So he just can't stop ValliantQuoating!

-Neil Parille

[Cathy]

Thank you Michael and KacyRay, it is a relief to know you believe who I am. Neil...do you believe me now? These last six months has been very hard. Sorting out memories, sorting out lies and then having to defend who I am...whew! But the books doesn't have it all right. I don't know why MiMi said that the O'Connor didn't like Aunt Alice because she was a foreigner. It was true that they didn't like how she came acrossed. Being a quiet family and NEVER outspoken, these were the qualities in Aunt Alice that the family didn't like, especially her being a woman. But that is what I loved about her! But the biggest reason the family didn't care for her was because she was Jewish. I don't know why MiMi didn't say that. Unless out of respect for our family, which growing up was a big deal. But I also understand MiMi to. My father died in 1980, I was about twenty one and I went to his funeral. I was very nervous through the whole thing, because I had converted over from Catholic to Pentecostal, and I just knew my father was rolling over in his grave! So I guess what is instilled in you as a child stays with you forever. I try to talk to my sister about all this and she doesn't want to hear about it, (at least the years spent with our father), she does however remember the Russian prayer and the only reason I got that out of her is because we were with our mother at the time. I don't want to upset her with all this, but I would like her to join in...but I don't see that happen in the near future. I have always been the stronger of the two of us (I get that from my mother). I would like to get my memories together, it seems like once I open that part of my mind, it wont turn off. I am fuzzy on my Aunt telling me about Uncle Harry (Nick) I am almost certain she said Nick got the nick name Nick Carter in the service...can anyone help me with that? Also when I said that Aunt Alice said that Uncle Nick was gay, she only thought that. The family said he wasn't. I am trying to put this in context as to not being read more into that than what it was. My Aunt Agnes said that he was like one of those friends that every girl has who is a boy, but more like a girlfriend. That is what he was to Aunt Alice. Aunt Agnes said that I would have a friend like that one day...and I did...and he was far from gay. When I became friends with him...I remember what Aunt Agnes told me, and she was right...like always. Someone asked me if I had pictures...no, I left when I was thirteen with nothing. But a year ago a cousin on my mother's side sent me a picture of my mother and some of us growing up with her. From my father's funeral, someone gave me his bible and watch, and I have those. But the weird thing is, I was digging through some pictures about six months ago and I came across two of my father and us when we lived with him...I don't know how I got them or how long I've had them. Its because of those two pictures I started all of this. Believe it or not, I did love my father. ~Cathy~

[Michael Stuart Kelly]

BTW, my old nemesis Jim Valliant just showed up on SOLO for the first time in years.

Neil,

Heh.

He wants to make sure what he says to her is offline.

Can't manipulate so well out in the open.

Cathy's a good person and I believe she has a good handle on life, but she needs to go through this crap--all of it--to understand our little subcommunity. Then come to her own conclusions, which, from what little I have known of her, she most definitely will.

EDIT: My post just crossed with hers.

Michael

[Neil Parille]

Cathy, I have said that I believe you are who you say you are.

-Neil Parille

[Cathy]

I just read your comment Neil, thank you...I don't think I am going to write James Valiant just yet. I don't know who to trust. Michael help...

[Ellen Stuttle]

Cathy,

I don't remember if you said if you ever met Mimi and Marna. They were both a lot older than you and had moved from Ohio by the time you were born.

Ellen

[Michael Stuart Kelly]

Cathy,

Go on and write to Valliant. He won't bite.

You've got a good head and I am sure you will be able to figure it all out. I have no doubt you're nobody's fool.

I have my druthers with Valliant and I am very open about them, but he's a gentle soul. And not a very competent manipulator.

btw - My grandparents were Holiness Pentecostal. I remember as a kid going to one of the services when a guy got up to sing. It started sounding funky, really funky, but he was into it heart and soul. Suddenly, after a couple of minutes of some very painful sounds, he stopped like an on-off switch. He said, "Praise the Lord, I just made a mess of it. I'm going to start over."

He got it right the second time.

Michael

[Cathy]

LOL...that's funny Michael! Ellen, no I never meet them, MiMi & Dockey). Aunt Agnes told me a lot about them tho. One of Aunt Agnes's favorite grand child was named Ellen...but I don't remember which daughter had her. But we were Aunt Agnes's favorite nieces. I know they ALL knew about us (me and Conny). I just don't know why we were a big secret(unless they didn't want the abuse to come out). Ok Michael, I will write James. I just don't want to be overloaded with anymore until I sort through what is in my head now. What book are you talking about where they were pro Frank. I ordered the book "Letter's by Ayn Rand" (I think that's the title) and it should be here any day. But to tell you the truth...I really don't want to cry anymore. My sister told me, you better make sure you want to open this can of worms Cathy...you might just regret it...I hope I don't. ~Cathy~