Frank's Niece!


Jonathan

Recommended Posts

AS far as I can remember the last time I recall seeing them would have been in 68/69. My father was pretty sick with cancer by then...and I don't think (not for sure) that he wanted anyone to see him like that. But my Aunt Agnes was around...until the falling out. I remember they always came in the winter...or colder months...if that helps. I don't know if they came in on their way to somewhere else or not. It was always a whirl wind when the would come, and they never stayed over night, except for Aunt Agnes. Aunt Alice also came to my mother's house, either in 64/65...in Media Ohio.

While Ayn didn't like to travel it's quite credible she would go with Frank to Ohio. She would have liked to be with him than not. Once she went to the Ford Hall Forum without him and--if that was the time--didn't do the Q & A because of "an urgent telephone" (Judge Lurie) which might have been from or about him. That it may have been biographically reported they went to Ohio once I'm sure they did a lot of other things involving travelling not reported aside from leaving the country only once, going to Mexico for purposes of naturalization. I was surprised to learn they went to Colorado in the late sixties to visit Galt's Gulch (Ouray).

--Brant

Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • Replies 1.3k
  • Created
  • Last Reply

Top Posters In This Topic

Hello everyone, I can understand how you feel. I wish there was something I could do to prove to you who I am. Would you except a picture of my birth certificate? I will try to get it on later tonight. I am not into Objectivism...sorry, I am really trying to find out information about them in their later years. I would like to know about Uncle Frank, people have emailed me when they saw Find A Grave, and referred to him as "the long suffering Frank". That is not how I remember him. I have ordered some of Alice's books. Sorry for calling her that, but that is what I am use to, and I never knew her by Ayn. The problem with reading about them, is books are very black and white...I really would like to know from people who personally was around them the years I missed. Leonard Peikoff is no help, he might be skeptical to...he probably thought we were dead since there wasn't any news about us all this time. But I know he knows about us, I am sure he meet my Aunt Agnes and he may have even meet us. Does he come on here? Where all of you know Ayn Rand and Frank, I knew Alice and Frank. Right now I don't want to know Ayn Rand and her views...maybe later. I remember Uncle Frank being so patient and kind. He would do magic tricks for us, I really thought it was magic to. I grew up remembering some of those tricks and it took me a while to figure out how he did them...lol I realized how really simple they were...but only when I was older. Uncle Frank took everything with a grain of salt, where Aunt Alice was more cynical of things. If she would ask me if I did my homework and I said yes, she would give me the eye...as to say, did you really??? Uncle Frank would just say, ok, and shake is head yes. I know it was said that people my age doesn't still say aunt and uncle...I do, for all of my aunts and uncles. My children was also raised to be respectful and call Conny Aunt Conny. My oldest is 35 years old and still calls Conny Aunt Conny...and he always will...that's the way my sister and I both raised our children. I also read that I mixed BS in with my perceptions of growing up around my aunt and uncle. I do not BS! These are my memories as I recall them. I am going back over 30 years on memory that I pushed aside a long time ago, and haven't thought about until 6 months ago. One good thing out of peoples skepticism of me, has made me remember so much more...and I want to thank you all for being my skeptics, because I never realized how much I really did love them and how much I truly miss them. ~Cathy~

Welcome to OL, Cathy. I'm sure there will be lots of interesting engagements here for you. Some of us who had first-hand experiences with Ayn and Frank, et al., aren't dead yet. Now I did not say you did BS. I said there was a possibility you mixed some into your narrative and only because you are saying some things conveying new things no one or hardly anyone has ever heard before. You have come out of nowhere, so to say, from the perspective of the Objectivist American sub-culture. (I put in "American" because it's mostly confined to America.) And I said that because I found you overall to be quite credible in spite of some others who started out taking you with a huge grain of salt. They, BTW, seem to have reduced the size of that salt grain.

I believe your uncle Nick died in the late 1940s in a VA hospital in NY State. He was gassed in WWI causing permanent disability resulting in some kind of veteran's disability compensation. I think the best short-term source for you for such family information would be Barbara Branden's biography (1986) The Passion of Ayn Rand.

--Brant

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Cathy,

Welcome to OL.

I don't have anything of significance to add to the discussion other than that I can support the claim that many people continue to call their aunts and uncles by those terms for the entirety of their lives. It's quite common in the south, actually.

(A related fun fact: in certain areas in the TN Appalachias it's common for adults to still refer to their mothers as "mommy.")

Link to comment
Share on other sites

A related fun fact: in certain areas in the TN Appalachias it's common for adults to still refer to their mothers as "mommy.")

The Horror!

--Brant

something new every day

I bet they capitalize "mommy" (if they can write and own shoes)

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Hi Cathy,

I am much older than you and I and all my cousins still say aunt and uncle (we are from the Maritimes).

It is great to see you here on OL, especially as you are a woman-- we need more Girl Power here.

It is fascinating to see you answering Neil Parille's questions and rediscovering your own memories. He is an objective Rand historian - you are contributing to scholarship!It seems your "Connor family life essentially ended at age 13, so your early recollections must be very poignant to you.

Welcome,

Carol

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I'm originally from the Appalachia region (Wise County, Virginia) and I still think of my grandmothers (both deceased) as Momma K and Momma Frost (this last because she got remarried to a "Frost").

Michael

I guess, then, you own some shoes.

--Brant

do you wear them?

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Brant,

Shoes?

You haven't lived until you've had to walk barefoot at night on an unlit dirt path to get to a wooden outhouse--all while stepping on nightcrawlers.

:smile:

I actually did that from when I could go on my own until I was 6 years old. Then, thank goodness, my parents moved "up north," meaning northern Virginia near DC (Fairfax County).

Michael

Link to comment
Share on other sites

You never know if someone is who they claim to be online, but, yeah, this looks like it's probably legit. It'll be interesting to see what else she has to say. Was Frank not only accepting of Ayn's affair, but turned on by it, as certain people have suggested?

J

The person who "suggested" that was Ayn Rand, according to Nathaniel's report in his memoir.

"He finds it an inspiration," off the top, is what I remember Nathaniel reporting as Rand's report of Frank's attitude toward the affair.

Ellan

Thanks!

I think I'm going to have to reread TheBrandens' books. It's been a very long time and I'm definitely getting fuzzy on the details.

J

P.S. I thought it was bad enough when Leonid was misspelling your name, but now you're doing it too!!! Ellan! Ha!

I was posting on an I- pad balanced on my knees while I was sitting cross- legged on the floor in a dimly lit room during the wee hours of the morning. I'd have had handfuls of typos if the contraption didn't have spellcheck.

I'll look later for the page numbers of Nathaniel's report, and to see if the wording was changed in the revised memoir.

Ellen - still pecking at an I- pad, but in daylight.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Here's the passage:

pg. 161, Judgment Day

Some months after the affair had begun, I asked Ayn how Frank was taking it, and she smiled enigmatically and answered, "Sometimes he finds it a sexual inspiration. He looks at it as a wonderful adventure of which he's a part."

"Barbara also enjoys the situation sometimes, maybe just a little, as if our relationship makes her own life more glamorous, more exciting."

Ayn smiled. "You see? We 'll have our year or two together--and there will be no victims, no tragedy."

In MYWAR, the first sentence is split, with a period after "it," the "and" deleted, and "she," with capital "S," starting a new sentence.

A substantive change is the following insertion after the comment about Barbara's reaction.

pg. 139

This is what I thought at the time; later I would learn from Barbara that I had been entirely mistaken.

Ellen
Link to comment
Share on other sites

Ellen, are you still suffering from Sandy?

--Brant

No. But I'm having problems with my old computer not getting along with the OL software. Very tedious working on that computer trying to post, and limited working on the I-pad.

I have a spiffy new laptop, acquired for Christmas, but for some reason as yet undiagnosed, that one doesn't work at all with the OL software.

Ellen

Link to comment
Share on other sites

It is great to see you here on OL, especially as you are a woman-- we need more Girl Power here.

I'm so sexist I think "Girl Power" is an oxymoron.

--Brant

caused me to miss out on some great sex

Oh, ha very ha. You are sexist like I am a Flyers fan.

Anyway, Oxy is the elite class of moron.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

My sister and I were talking and neither one of us remember Uncle Frank coming to my mother's house in Media with Aunt Alice...this doesn't mean he didn't' we just don't remember him there. The reason that visit she made is so clear to us, is because she taught us a Russian prayer. I know I told Neil 64/65, but it could have been 63. I know we moved out to Arizona in 66 and it was much earlier than that. We were 5 or 6 at the time of that visit. I know all of you think she was Atheist, but at one time neither one were. We remember the prayer somewhat, or should I say we remember her teaching it to us. If she was an Atheist then she didn't tell us. The only reason they said they were an Atheist is because they didn't believe in something they couldn't see...according to Aunt Agnes. I also read the passages on this page I believe of Branden's accounts of my uncle excepting of the affair...I find that very hard to believe. Not after hearing my dad and Aunt Agnes heated conversation about it. If Aunt Alice told Brandon that, then that was Aunt Alice's wishful thinking...surly not Uncle Frank's and if it was I am shocked! Maybe Aunt Alice talked to him about it, and he may not have said anything, and to her that may have meant he was ok with it. But really I don't think he was. I was 12/13 years old when this conversation happened, and the tension in the house was thick. I always loved for my Aunt Agnes to visit, so this visit stands out vividly to me. If Uncle Frank would have been ok with the affair, my father would have told my Aunt it was their business. But my dad was angry, and the only way that could happen is if his brother was hurting. I don't know when the affair happened, and I don't know if my family knew right away, but this conversation would have happened in 69/70. When I said my father would call them several times a month, I meant his family, Aunt Agnes and Uncle Frank. My dad didn't care for Aunt Alice to well...he wouldn't have called her. As far as MiMI (Muriam) Im sure she was close to Aunt Alice, Aunt Agnes is the one that would travel to all the families homes and I'm sure MiMi went often with her.. Can anyone tell me if MiMi knew Alice by Ayn. And if she did, did she know all her life? All my cousin's were born way before me and my sister were. I have one O'Connor cousin left who is Aunt Bess's son. He was a twin also. He became an attorney and is well up into his seventies. Really, all I knew was Aunt Alice wrote books. No one ever told me that she published them, or was so controversial. It just blows my mind that I never knew. Also I can't believe how popular she still is today. I am still getting use to the idea that Ayn Rand this woman I don't know is Aunt Alice. to all who wants to know...I will upload my birth certificat tonight and put it up. My husband has the camera in is car or I would do it now. I hope that will help.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

It is great to see you here on OL, especially as you are a woman-- we need more Girl Power here.

I'm so sexist I think "Girl Power" is an oxymoron.

--Brant

caused me to miss out on some great sex

Oh, ha very ha. You are sexist like I am a Flyers fan.

Anyway, Oxy is the elite class of moron.

My attitudes tend to trail the more radical consensus. I was quite sexist in the early 1970s and this sexism was re-enforced when I ran into some radical, man-hating feminists. But I came along. It took me a short time to go from conservativism of the Buckley variety to Objectivism which was what gave me more of an intellectual outlook, but a very long time to go from that to much more of a libertarian. That took a decade of watching stupid wars after 9/11. I finally figured out the political realities of the power mongers who fight if not create unnecessary wars. War, I knew about war already. The pieces came together. Click! Psychologically I'm still somewhat caught up in all my past histories, ingrained as they are in all our DNAs. I'm not altogether comfortable having a libertarian orientation on the one hand and a warrior's on the other. I'm always thinking about who I would/could kill for what. Why? Because I'm capable. In Vietnam SF aidmen were the only medics in the world recognized by the Geneva convention as armed combatants, which is a step "higher" than a combat medic--the guy unarmed on the battlefield running around under fire to treat the wounded. It's not that exclusive today.

--Brant

Link to comment
Share on other sites

She never told us she was an Atheist...maybe out of respect of my father. But what's one more secret. My Aunt told us what an Atheist was (Agnes). The only reason she did was through the heated conversation of the affair my dad said that what does Frank expect from a damn Atheist. I didn't know what the word meant and later I asked Aunt Agnes. She said it was someone who didn't believe in God...and I was horrified. Aunt Agnes told me that they were not always that way, and that is not like they don't believe in God, they just don't believe in something they can't see.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

She never told us she was an Atheist...maybe out of respect of my father. But what's one more secret. My Aunt told us what an Atheist was (Agnes). The only reason she did was through the heated conversation of the affair my dad said that what does Frank expect from a damn Atheist. I didn't know what the word meant and later I asked Aunt Agnes. She said it was someone who didn't believe in God...and I was horrified. Aunt Agnes told me that they were not always that way, and that is not like they don't believe in God, they just don't believe in something they can't see.

If your family knew of the affair by the 1960s, you were ahead of the public knowledge that became extant with the 1986 biography.

--Brant

Link to comment
Share on other sites

It is great to see you here on OL, especially as you are a woman-- we need more Girl Power here.

I'm so sexist I think "Girl Power" is an oxymoron.

--Brant

caused me to miss out on some great sex

Oh, ha very ha. You are sexist like I am a Flyers fan.

Anyway, Oxy is the elite class of moron.

My attitudes tend to trail the more radical consensus. I was quite sexist in the early 1970s and this sexism was re-enforced when I ran into some radical, man-hating feminists. But I came along. It took me a short time to go from conservativism of the Buckley variety to Objectivism which was what gave me more of an intellectual outlook, but a very long time to go from that to much more of a libertarian. That took a decade of watching stupid wars after 9/11. I finally figured out the political realities of the power mongers who fight if not create unnecessary wars. War, I knew about war already. The pieces came together. Click! Psychologically I'm still somewhat caught up in all my past histories, ingrained as they are in all our DNAs. I'm not altogether comfortable having a libertarian orientation on the one hand and a warrior's on the other. I'm always thinking about who I would/could kill for what. Why? Because I'm capable. In Vietnam SF aidmen were the only medics in the world recognized by the Geneva convention as armed combatants, which is a step "higher" than a combat medic--the guy unarmed on the battlefield running around under fire to treat the wounded. It's not that exclusive today.

--Brant

I can't understand the consciousness that leaves you with, of course. But I can imagine, When I read about "Unclaimed" which I mentioned in M&E, my first thought after reading about Robertson was, "My god, that could have been X or Y (Maine boys I knew who were reported KIA) or it could have been Brant"
Link to comment
Share on other sites

Cathy,

Did you know that Frank became an artist? Do you remember if he sketched when he visited, or do you remember family members discussing the fact that he was taking painting classes? Did Frank ever give your family members any of his paintings or drawings?

J

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Yeah. "It could have been Brant." It almost was.

--Brant

I enjoyed all the different weaponry I got to fire--revolvers to assault rifles to machine guns to mortars--and all the aircraft and watercraft I got to ride in--but not the hundreds of dead CIDG bodies from a fucked up operation

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I was posting on an I- pad balanced on my knees while I was sitting cross- legged on the floor in a dimly lit room during the wee hours of the morning. I'd have had handfuls of typos if the contraption didn't have spellcheck.

I know where you're coming from. I've been posting mostly from an iPad myself lately, and it has taken me a lot of effort to get used to typing on it. I find that I'm now getting pretty good at it if I just consciously remind myself ahead of time that I'm going into iPad one-or-two-finger hunt-n-peck mode rather than old-school ten-finger mode.

J

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Create an account or sign in to comment

You need to be a member in order to leave a comment

Create an account

Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!

Register a new account

Sign in

Already have an account? Sign in here.

Sign In Now