Frank's Niece!

[ginny]

I just read your comment Neil, thank you...I don't think I am going to write James Valiant just yet. I don't know who to trust. Michael help...

Cathy, Michael doesn't care whether you contact James. James wants a private email because no way is he talking in public. Just sayin'

[PDS]

Cathy, I have said that I believe you are who you say you are.

-Neil Parille

A sign of approval from Javert!

Yippie!

[Michael Stuart Kelly]

Cathy, Michael doesn't care whether you contact James. James wants a private email because no way is he talking in public. Just sayin'

just read your comment Neil, thank you...I don't think I am going to write James Valiant just yet. I don't know who to trust. Michael help...

Ginny!

How so very good to see you!

Can you send me your email?

Michael

[Neil Parille]

The problem I'm having with Cathy's account is that it assumes Ayn and Frank's having visited Ohio a number of times in the 60s and early 70s.

On the other hand, they might have visited once or twice and this is getting confused in her memory. We all know from the endless debates about the Remington Rand story that it is possible for people to retroject memories and it wouldn't surprise me if this has happened here.

-Neil Parille

[Jonathan]

I just read your comment Neil, thank you...I don't think I am going to write James Valiant just yet. I don't know who to trust. Michael help...

Don't trust anyone. Listen to what others say, and then judge for yourself if they've offered proof of what they say, or if they're trying to make you believe something that's not true.

In post 193, Neil used the term "ValliantQuoating." You're probably not familiar with what it means. Normally, when a person quotes something that another person said, it is expected that only the exact words that were used will be placed in quotation marks, and in the proper order. Doing so is the standard procedure. Well, James Valliant doesn't follow that standard procedure. He believes that it is acceptable to rearrange and add and delete words in others' statements when quoting them!

In addition to such shoddy notions of scholarship, truth and accuracy, Mr. Valliant sometimes has great difficulty in following the simplest of conversations, and gets very confused about who said what, and to whom. He appears to be doing it right now with Neil over on solopassion.

A great example of Valliant's becoming hopelessly confused and going off half-cocked is documented on his thread: http://www.objectivistliving.com/forums/index.php?showtopic=5778&hl=dipshit

Basically, Valliant came here and read a post that I had written to a person named James Heaps Nelson, but somehow confused himself into believing that I had written the post to him, and then began criticizing me for criticizing him when I hadn't done so - I was very clearly criticizing James Heaps Nelson and not James Valliant in that post.

So, long story short, don't trust anyone who is associated with Objectivism. In a post above, Ellen wondered if the Objectivist online community might look like a nuthouse to outsiders. I'm an insider, and I think that it doesn't just look like a nuthouse, but IS a nuthouse, just as surely as A is A. When someone in this nuthouse tells you something, don't believe it unless you can verify it for youself. When Objectivists make assertions, ask them to prove that what they say is true.

J

[Jonathan]

Ms. O'Connor,

I am not able to engage online at the present, but, please, do feel free to contact me offline. (I have messaged you with my email address.)

I will just caution, however, that Mr. Parille cannot be trusted. His claim below, for example, that Dr. Peikoff "sent" me "after" the Brandens is just his most recent distortion. He has put this same "skill" to use in his attack on Frank O'Connor.

In any case, I believe that both of us might profit from an exchange of information.

Valliant apparently is referring to my review of 100 Voices, which I linked to in the previous post. In my review I didn't use the words "sent" and "after" in connection with Peikoff. So he just can't stop ValliantQuoating!

-Neil Parille

God, it is great to see Valliant back in the lineup. He's so proficient at scoring own-goals and mis-celebrating losses as victories! It's the ultimate in entertainment.

J

[Cathy]

Jonathan, thank you, I will take that into consideration from now on. Neil, They only other explanation I can come up with is, they spent a couple of nights visiting. I don't remember them spending the night, doesn't mean they didn't. I remember them so far six times...if they spent the night, that would mean three visits, lets say. I just remember days...different clothes, different magic trick so on, and I may have confused that with different times of visiting. Do you understand what I am trying to say. I am going back along way. I really didn't mean to start all this fuss. ~Cathy~

[Ellen Stuttle]

Normally, when a person quotes something that another person said, it is expected that only the exact words that were used will be placed in quotation marks, and in the proper order. Doing so is the standard procedure. Well, James Valliant doesn't follow that standard procedure. He believes that it acceptable to rearrange and add and delete words in others' statements when quoting them!

That's worth using in a different context, altering the name appropriately. There are climate alarmists whom I often suspect of having taken quoting lessons from Valliant.

Ellen

[Neil Parille]

God, it is great to see Valliant back in the lineup. He's so proficient at scoring own-goals and mis-celebrating losses as victories! It's the ultimate in entertainment.

Yes, Valliant is the gift that keeps on giving. He comes back to SOLO after, I don't know, two years and with his very first post construes something that I quoted from a book review as something I had written myself.

-Neil Parille

[ginny]

ginny1964@hotmail.com

[Ellen Stuttle]

The problem I'm having with Cathy's account is that it assumes Ayn and Frank's having visited Ohio a number of times in the 60s and early 70s.

Just in the 60s if I'm remembering right. Cathy said the argument she heard in 70-71 about the affair was between her father and her Aunt Agnes and that not long after she and her sister were sent off to foster homes.

Thus what's at issue is several - three to six - visits to Ohio by Ayn and Frank, approximately 63-69, which haven't come to light before.

Ellen

[Neil Parille]

Ellen,

I believe she said yearly for a period of time and then less frequent later, which might put at least some visits into the early 70s, although one of those later trips might not have resulted in a visit with her.

Neither the Letters nor 100 Voices give evidence of this. The omission from 100 Voices (if an interviewee reported this) would be unlikely because it goes overboard to humanize Rand.

-Neil Parille

[Guyau]

. . .

Delighted to hear your stories of Frank and Nick and Alice. The only biographical things I have read about Ayn Rand are that portion in Chris Sciabarra's Ayn Rand - The Russian Radical and in Nathaniel Branden's My Years with Ayn Rand. I look forward to the biography in the works by Shoshana Milgram, covering Rand's life to 1957. There is a film about Rand's life and thought you might enjoy titled Ayn Rand in Her Own Words. I liked it a lot.

Cathy,

In addition to those presentations concerning Alice, I thought you might like to see the recording

from 1967. Does she seem in this as you were acquainted with her? That TV program back then was the first time I ever saw and heard her. (I never saw her in person.) I was a little taken back by the accent. I had read her works that year, but not with that voice. Perhaps you have already seen this.

There are a few photos of Frank here and here, some in the ’40’s. Portrait of Frank O'Connor (scroll down)

Best,

Stephen

[Cathy]

OMGOSH! No, I never seen this before. yes, yes, her voice is the same...and do you see how her eyes bounce around, that's exactly how I remember. The only things is, her dress made her look slightly slimmer than what I remember. The portrait of my uncle must be from earlier years...I remember him being a little thicker than that. But all in all I recognized him. Do you have anymore???? I only seen the interview on Donahue...and that's where I made the connection of Aunt Alice and Ayn Rand. But by that interview she had aged by then. The interview on Carson is how I remember her...LOL!!!!! Thank you for sharing that with me...I am not good at computers! All I can say is WOW!!!! LOL!!!!! :smile:

[Guyau]

.

[Cathy]

Thank you again Stephen, In Jan. of 1959, we were a little over a year old. I thought she was unknown until she wrote Atlas Shrugged. I have a lot to learn. But one thing, her eyes never have changed. From what I just saw of that first interview in 1959, I know why my father never told us. Her beliefs and views would have been outrageous in the O'Connor household. I am a little taken back by her black and white attitude...she never came across that way to me...but of course I was young, and nobody would ever have a conversation of that kind in my father's house. I see on the link there are more interviews...I will watch them little by litter so they can sink in on what she is saying. We called her kooky Aunt Alice, and I always thought it was her accent that they thought of her that way, but I beginning to lean toward it was her views. Thanks again. p.s. do you have anything on my uncle? ~Cathy~

[Michael Stuart Kelly]

Cathy,

Here is a fashion show they did at Nathaniel Branden Institute way back when and they featured your uncle at one point. He is quite elegant. There is about 40 seconds at the beginning of an unrelated title screen they used to show back then for watching movies.

Michael

[Cathy]

WOW! Michael, thank you. I called my husband in to view it for the first time with me. I could tell he (Uncle Frank) was nervous and a bit uncomfortable. None of the O'Connor's like attention on them, it made them feel self conscience and believe it or not I could tell by his movements that's exactly how he felt. Its weird to see him walking around, instead of walking around in my memories, or in still pictures. This has been amazing for me, you and Stephen has made me very happy today, thank you both so much! ~Cathy~

[Jonathan]

Thanks for posting the fashion show, MSK. In addition to the footage of Frank, it's nice to see lovely Patrecia and her twin sister. I especially like the fact that Patrecia is wearing a bridal gown.

J

[ginny]

Have you seen any of Frank's pictures? He did a cover for Atlas Shrugged. Really a talented artist. You need to scroll down a bit It. It's right next to a picture of Frank.
Y

http://www.aynrand.org/site/PageServer?pagename=about_ayn_rand_aynrand_timeline's

[Jonathan]

Have you seen any of Frank's pictures? He did a cover for Atlas Shrugged. Really a talented artist. You need to scroll down a bit It. It's right next to a picture of Frank.

Y

http://www.aynrand.org/site/PageServer?pagename=about_ayn_rand_aynrand_timeline's

I didn't think that Frank painted any of the Atlas Shrugged covers, but one of The Fountainhead covers.

Here's a link to a few small black and white versions of some of Frank's paintings:

http://www.objectivistliving.com/forums/index.php?showtopic=1545

There are more images of Frank's work here at OL, and I'll post more links as I fing them.

J

[Cathy]

Thank you Ginny, So, she was famous before we were born????? How can anyone keep that a secrete from me and my sister for that long...and why? You all have been so helpful and thank you so much. They are all probably laughing in heaven...the O'Connor's best kept secret! Except for Aunt Alice and Uncle Frank, because I do not know where Atheist go. Thank you Ginny ~Cathy~ p.s. my uncle was handsome wasn't he?

[Michael Stuart Kelly]

I can't resist a little snark from all the crap I went through with PARC, so here is my snark. I promise I'll keep it brief.

Go to this link and scroll down to the post called "Contact Me" and stamped "Submitted by James S. Valliant on Sun, 2013-04-28 15:06."

The reason I am asking to scroll and giving a timestamp instead of giving a direct link to the post is that SLOP's software makes the link not work anymore on the second page of posts and higher (once the number of posts get numerous enough to start on a second page).

Now here are selected quotes from his several posts up to the one called ""Context," You Say?" and time-stamped "Submitted by James S. Valliant on Mon, 2013-04-29 01:38."

There is one quote per post:

I am not able to engage online at the present...

. . .

As I just indicated, at present I am unable to engage online at any length with anyone. Such an exchange with Mr. Parille, in any event, would only involve more of the same nonsense that we see right now.

. . .

... I am done here for now.

. . .

I simply cannot continue this exchange for very specific, practical reasons, apart from the implied sanction it could give to Mr. Parille's fantasies.

Over and out.

. . .

I can waste no more time like this, as I say.

This probably isn't the end of it, either.

One of Valliant's stylistic flaws has always been his penchant for redundancy.

Ah, sweet Vanity, where is thy sting?

Michael

[Cathy]

Thank you Jonathan, do you know were his paintings are? He said it was a hobby he was doing...why are they of interest now? Don't tell me he became a famous painter...did he? Some I think are good...but some are weird lol. Can you tell me more about them? I love the one he painted of Aunt Alice! There is so much more I want to tell everyone about them...I miss them all so much. I know they lied but I think they may have did it for our safety, Reminds me about My mother adopted my older sister eighteen years before we were born, she didn't find out that she was adopted until she was twenty five. When she found out, she hit the roof, and didn't speak to my mother for years and years, which broke my mother's heart. It wasn't until my mother had gotten sick before she came back around. What I thought about her at the time even tho I was young was...what a brat, at least she was adopted by my mom. It isn't until this very moment that I completely understand how she felt. I need to call her...

[Neil Parille]

Michael,

Like listening to the Bee Gees, mixing it up with Jim Valliant is one of life's guilty pleasures.

There is just something funny about Valliant. Every point he tries to make starts with some elaborate windup, but the ball falls two feet from the pitcher's mound.

The guy thinks his book has "forever changed the field of Rand biography" but I see at most one or two favorable references to the book on the internet a year.

Does the guy think he is fooling anyone?

-Neil Parille