Frank's Niece!

[Ellen Stuttle]

$25 went a long way farther in 1949 than it does now.

Even when I was in college in the first half of the '60s, I could get a full tank of gas for a few dollars.

The subscription price for a one-year subscription to The Objectivist Newsletter, then to The Objectivist was $5.

The whole set of 1962-1965 Newsletters - 48 issues - was advertised in January 1966 as selling for $12.

The $25 was to buy a dress, I'm imagining something fancy for graduation.

What I wondered about was why Connie couldn't have gotten the money from her step-father. I think one of the links on Find-A-Grave indicated that Agnes had remarried by then.

Ellen

[Ellen Stuttle]

Cathy,

There's no indication if Connie paid the money back.

Judging from something Heller says about one letter Frank wrote - to Ruth Beebe Hill after Ayn and Frank moved to NYC in '51 - Frank rarely wrote letters and was terrible at spelling.

The book's editor, Michael S. Berliner, says in his preface:

Out of more than 2,000 letters by [Rand], I have included approximately 35 to 40 percent of the total, omitting repetitious material and many routine business letters.

Jennifer Burns, who had access to the archives when working on her book, said that although what's included in the Letters book is accurately transcribed, there is material of a chatty kind left out, so there might be more family information than we get much of a sense of from the few selections included.

Ellen

[Cathy]

$25 went a long way farther in 1949 than it does now.

Even when I was in college in the first half of the '60s, I could get a full tank of gas for a few dollars.

The subscription price for a one-year subscription to The Objectivist Newsletter, then to The Objectivist was $5.

The whole set of 1962-1965 Newsletters - 48 issues - was advertised in January 1966 as selling for $12.

The $25 was to buy a dress, I'm imagining something fancy for graduation.

What I wondered about was why Connie couldn't have gotten the money from her step-father. I think one of the links on Find-A-Grave indicated that Agnes had remarried by then.

Ellen

Ellen, her step father died not long after the marriage...Aunt Agnes never married again. ~Cathy~

[Cathy]

Cathy,

There's no indication if Connie paid the money back.

Judging from something Heller says about one letter Frank wrote - to Ruth Beebe Hill after Ayn and Frank moved to NYC in '51 - Frank rarely wrote letters and was terrible at spelling.

The book's editor, Michael S. Berliner, says in his preface:

Out of more than 2,000 letters by [Rand], I have included approximately 35 to 40 percent of the total, omitting repetitious material and many routine business letters.

Jennifer Burns, who had access to the archives when working on her book, said that although what's included in the Letters book is accurately transcribed, there is material of a chatty kind left out, so there might be more family information than we get much of a sense of from the few selections included.

Ellen

Frank rarely wrote letters and was terrible at spelling. LOL that's funny...I'm a terrible speller to.

[Ellen Stuttle]

Ok, here I am again, trying to piece together as much as can be gleaned from the sparse set of letters to Agnes (only 1 letter), Mimi, Marna, and Connie included in the Letters volume.

First I'll list all the references from the Index.

Regular type means a reference to the person.

Boldface means a letter to the person.

Italics means a reference which was left out of the Index.

Papurt, Agnes, 255, 255, 265

Papurt, Connie, 241, 352, 391, 405, 445, 447

Papurt, Marna (Docky), 241, 255, 266, 274, 352, 361, 389, 391, 397, 446, 466

Sutton, Mimi, 241, 254, 255, 265, 274, 352, 361, 389, 391, 397, 405, 406, 446, 448, 635, 668

The total number of letters to those four included in the book is 17.

With this breakdown:

Agnes - 1

Connie - 2

Marna - 3

Mimi - 11

Although Ayn became definitely irritated with Mimi over the issue of the funds and arrangements for Marna's high school expenses, nonetheless, she and Mimi remained friends.

The last letter Ayn wrote, a little more than two months before she died, was the letter to Mimi (copied in post #573) enclosing some money to provide a nice Christmas dinner for Mimi's guests.

In a separate post, I'll list the set of letters to the four in chronological sequence.

Ellen

Edited to include references (indicated by italics) which were left out of the Index

Edited May 21, 2013 by Ellen Stuttle

[Ellen Stuttle]

I'll list the set in consecutive order, giving page number and date.

The initials in parentheses indicate references to Agnes (A), Connie (C ), Marna/Docky (Ma), Mimi (M).

I've also included a few indications of letter subjects.

The links are to letters which I've copied in posts on this thread.

Maybe of special interest to some - the thank you note to Mimi, April 3, 1965, for sending records.

===

Mimi - 241 - December 2, 1945 (C & Ma)

Mimi - 254 - February 15, 1946 (A & Ma)

Agnes - 255 - February 15, 1946 (M & Ma)

Mimi - 265 - March 24, 1946 (A & Ma)

Mimi - 274 - April 30, 1946 (Ma - check for May)

Mimi - 352 - December 2, 1946 (Ma - check for December)

Marna - 361 - January 31, 1947 (M)

Marna - 389 - March 20, 1948 (M)

Mimi - 391 - March 20, 1948 (Ma)

Mimi - 397 - May 23, 1948 (Ma - got married, is pregnant)

Mimi - 405 - August 21, 1948 (C - plans to be writer)

Mimi - 406 - September 12, 1948

Connie - 445 - May 22, 1949 (M & Ma)

Connie - 447 - June 4, 1949 (M)

Marna - 466 - February 21, 1950 (baby with heart problem)

Mimi - 635 - April 3, 1965 (thanks for record albums; Elisabeth Schwarzkopf)

Mimi - 668 - December 22, 1981 (some money for Christmas dinner; AR's last letter)

-

Ellen

[Ellen Stuttle]

All three letters to Marna/Docky, plus one to Mimi which has a comment too priceless not to post about Rand's progress on Atlas, and another to Mimi expressing concern about Marna/Docky's marriage and pregnancy.

January 31, 1947

Dear Docky:

I have just received a letter from Mimi, telling me that she is leaving for Washington and sending you back to Cleveland. She did not say anything about what your plans are, how far you have progressed in school or how long you have to go before you graduate.

Will you write me yourself and tell me in detail how things stand with you? As you probably know, I had agreed to send Mimi the money for you to go to school for one year, and Mimi had assured me that one year was all the time you needed. That year will expire in March, so the next check will be the last one. I don't know whether Mimi has just left you up in the air, and I don't know what it was that she intended for your future. I had made it very clear to her that I would send the money only for one year.

So will you write to me and tell me how long you still have to go before you graduate from high school; and what are your plans?

I had asked you to write to me, so that we could get acquainted, but you haven't done it. I suspect that you are afraid of me and that that is Mimi's fault. So don't be afraid, and just tell me directly how things stand with you, what are your plans and what you would like to do. Tell me something about yourself. I would like very much to help you, if I can, but I can't help you if I don't know what you really are or what you are doing.

And I can't help you by just sending money on indefinitely. That is very wrong, both for you and for me. I hope that Mimi has not made you into the kind of girl who expects that. And I am very angry at Mimi, if she led you to believe that I am the kind of person who'd agree to be used in that manner. There is a great difference between helping a friend and just being used. Mimi has put us both in the second position. And I had wanted very much to be your friend. I still do. Now let me hear from you.

March 20, 1948

Dear Docky:

Please forgive me for taking so long to answer your letter. I have been working so hard on my novel ever since I came back that I could not do anything else.

Thank you for your nice letter. You really write very well, so I hope you will write again and not share the sin of all the O'Connors who are even worse than I am about correspondence.

I was very interested to read about your first stage experience. Mimi wrote to me about it too and said that you were very good. If you find by now that you enjoy the work, I wish you a lot of success with it.

I am sending some clothes for you and Mimi, and I am mailing them to Mimi's address because I am not sure that you are in New York at present. The blue suit, which I am sending, is for you. I hope you will like it since you seem to like the same kind of tailored clothes that I wear. It's probably much too large for you, but I think it will be becoming when you have it taken in.

I won't attempt to tell you about my ride in the engine now. I'll tell you all about it when I see you in person. It was a wonderful experience.

What was it you wanted me to tell you about Oscar and Oswald? They are two lion cubs (stuffed) and they are supposed to represent the bad sides of Frank's character. Whenever he pulls a bad joke, he blames it on Oswald; and whenever he loses his temper, it's supposed to be Oscar growling. That's how it all started, but now they have become very real members of our household in the same kind of way as Charlie McCarthy. They have specific characters of their own. You will have to see and hear them to believe any of this.

Now as to the address that has the creoles, it was a German pastry shop on the east side of Lexington, a few doors before you come to the corner of Eighty-sixth Street, coming from downtown. I don't remember the name of the place; I think it was something like Bauers. I don't know if it is still there. If you find it, and they still have the creoles, please buy a pound of them for me too and send them to us along with the bill. I would love to have them, but I want to say in advance that I don't want them as a present because they are quite expensive.

Please let me know what you are doing and how you are getting along. I will try to answer you more promptly next time.

Love from your Aunt and Uncle,

March 20, 1948

Dear Mimi:

The suede dress is for you and the blue suit is for Docky. I am also sending a blouse which I bought and never wore because it is too feminine for me. I thought it would go with the suit for Docky; but since it is so feminine, maybe it would be better for you, so I will let you two decide it. The blue skirt, which I am sending, is a very good hand-knitted one, but it is too short for me now. If you find that it is too short for either of you, maybe it will fit Connie. I am sending the blue bag, gloves and hat which I used to wear with the suit. The hat is quite old, but maybe Docky can use it by having it reblocked .

Frank is sending a bunch of ties. He does not remember which tie it was that David liked. If it is not among the ones he is sending, would you describe what it looked like, and if it is not one of my particular pets, we'll send it on.

My long silence has been due to uninterrupted work on my novel. It's going very well, but it's very difficult, and I am working hard. I have done nothing else since returning to Hollywood, and I have no news about myself, except 150,000 words on paper which, I think, will be news when they are published.

You said in your letter that I have been your "conscience" and that you carry on conversations with me in your own mind. That is something you really must tell me more about. Do let me know what it is that I am saying.

Love to you, David and Docky from your old Aunt and Uncle,

May 23, 1948

We were glad to hear from you as we were beginning to wonder what had happened to our nieces. And as I see, something pretty drastic has happened to one of them. I don't know what to think of Docky's marriage. Of course, as you say, it is strictly her own business, and if that is what she wanted, I hope she will be very happy. My regret is that she is rushing into motherhood too soon, but again that is her own decision. I do think that to be a mother at twenty is much too soon, but my attitude on motherhood is just about like yours. I think your statement about it in your letter was very sensible indeed.*

Frank and I are a little startled that Docky did not even let us know. I had a letter from her at the end of December, and since she was already married then, isn't it strange that she did not want to mention it? Did she keep it secret from all of us because she felt certain that we would disapprove? Well, I cannot attempt to guess her reason, so I can only hope that it will work out for the best.

* Sutton had written to AR that she couldn't think of any good reason to have a baby, and she rejected the notion that one achieves immortality through reproducing oneself.

February 21, 1950

Dear Docky:

Our congratulations and best wishes to you on the birth of your little daughter.

I was very sorry to learn from Fabian, when he telephoned us while he was here, that the baby has a difficult heart condition. But I hope that the doctors will be able to help her and that an operation may be done to adjust the condition. I know that it is a hard problem for you, but I hope that you will have the brave attitude which Fabian had about it and that the baby will be alright. Needless to say you have all our sympathy and best wishes for her health. Love from both of us.

Ellen

[Cathy]

I'll list the set in consecutive order, giving page number and date.

The initials in parentheses indicate references to Agnes (A), Connie (C ), Marna/Docky (Ma), Mimi (M).

I've also included a few indications of letter subjects.

Maybe of special interest to some - the thank you note to Mimi, April 3, 1965, for sending records.

Mimi - 241 - December 2, 1945 (C & Ma)

Mimi - 254 - February 15, 1946 (A & Ma)

Agnes - 255 - February 15, 1946 (M & Ma)

Mimi - 265 - March 24, 1946 (A & Ma)

Mimi - 274 - April 30, 1946 (Ma - check for May)

Mimi - 352 - December 2, 1946 (Ma - check for December)

Marna - 361 - January 31, 1947 (M)

Marna - 389 - March 20, 1948 (M)

Mimi - 391 - March 20, 1948 (Ma)

Mimi - 397 - May 23, 1948 (Ma - got married, is pregnant)

Mimi - 405 - August 21, 1948 (C - plans to be writer)

Mimi - 406 - September 12, 1948

Connie - 445 - May 22, 1949 (M & Ma)

Connie - 447 - June 4, 1949 (M)

Marna - 466 - February 21, 1950 (baby with heart problem)

Mimi - 635 - April 3, 1965 (thanks for record albums; Elisabeth Schwarzkopf)

Mimi - 668 - December 22, 1981 (some money for Christmas dinner; AR's last letter)

-

Ellen

Thank you Ellen, I made a mistake...it was Mimi that Peikoff sent a $1,000 to after Ayn's death. Also Mimi had a son and daughter, son's name is George Daniel (Danny) daughter Louise. Lee never married or had children. Mimi was thought to have colon cancer and diabetes. BTW, connie never paid back the $25...it came after her prom and an uncle on her father's side bought the prom dress for her. But Aunt Alice did send $20 for her graduation gift after sending the "loan" of $25. Connie never asked to borrow money from her again. Margaret was married to a James Rhoades and had one son Jimmy. I think she died of breast cancer. Found out that Joe (O'Connor) left Aunt Agnes a life insurance policy upon his death. ~Cathy~ p.s. Marna (Doc) still has original letters from Ayn.

[Ellen Stuttle]

Thank you Ellen, I made a mistake...it was Mimi that Peikoff sent a $1,000 to after Ayn's death. Also Mimi had a son and daughter, son's name is George Daniel (Danny) daughter Louise. Lee never married or had children. Mimi was thought to have colon cancer and diabetes. BTW, connie never paid back the $25...it came after her prom and an uncle on her father's side bought the prom dress for her. But Aunt Alice did send $20 for her graduation gift after sending the "loan" of $25. Connie never asked to borrow money from her again. Margaret was married to a James Rhoades and had one son Jimmy. I think she died of breast cancer. Found out that Joe (O'Connor) left Aunt Agnes a life insurance policy upon his death. ~Cathy~ p.s. Marna (Doc) still has original letters from Ayn.

Cathy,

Thanks for the corrections and new information.

Oh, goody that Marna/Docky still has the original letters from Rand.

I wonder how many more there were than the ones I copied above - see post #607; I've filled in the whole set to Docky from the book, plus two to Mimi which have reference to Docky.

I wonder if Marna/Docky kept her letters to AR.

Oh, also, how did AR sign? As Aunt Alice or Aunt Ayn? (Somehow "Aunt Ayn" sounds comical to me, like an oxymoron.)

What name does Marna/Docky go by these days? Does she still use "Docky," or would she rather be called Marna?

Ellen

[Ellen Stuttle]

And, for fun, a letter to Mimi, April 3, 1965, thanking Mimi for a gift of records. I guess one person at least psyched in right

April 3, 1965

Dear Mimi:

Thank you very much for the two beautiful record albums which you sent us.

I understand your enthusiasm for Elisabeth Schwarzkopf and why you wanted us to hear these particular records. She has a magnificent voice and the way she sings operettas gives them the emotional power of a real opera.

Frank has played the records over and over again and I have seldom seen him enjoy a record so much. I especially thank you for this, in addition to my own pleasure.

Ellen

[Cathy]

All three letters to Marna/Docky, plus one to Mimi which has a comment too priceless not to post about Rand's progress on Atlas, and another to Mimi expressing concern about Marna/Docky's marriage and pregnancy.

January 31, 1947

Dear Docky:

I have just received a letter from Mimi, telling me that she is leaving for Washington and sending you back to Clevelandd. She did not say anything about what your plans are, how far you have progressed in school or how long you have to go before you graduate.

Will you write me yourself and tell me in detail how things stand with you? As you probably know, I had agreed to send Mimi the money for you to go to school for one year, and Mimi had assured me that one year was all the time you needed. That year will expire in March, so the next check will be the last one. I don't know whether Mimi has just left you up in the air, and I don't know what it was that she intended for your future. I had made it very clear to her that I would send the money only for one year.

So will you write to me and tell me how long you still have to go before you graduate from high school; and what are your plans?

I had asked you to write to me, so that we could get acquainted, but you haven't done it. I suspect that you are afraid of me and that that is Mimi's fault. So don't be afraid, and just tell me directly how things stand with you, what are your plans and what you would like to do. Tell me something about yourself. I would like very much to help you, if I can, but I can't help you if I don't know what you really are or what you are doing.

And I can't help you by just sending money on indefinitely. That is very wrong, both for you and for me. I hope that Mimi has not made you into the kind of girl who expects that. And I am very angry at Mimi, if she led you to believe that I am the kind of person who'd agree to be used in that manner. There is a great difference between helping a friend and just being used. Mimi has put us both in the second position. And I had wanted very much to be your friend. I still do. Now let me hear from you.

March 20, 1948

Dear Docky:

Please forgive me for taking so long to answer your letter. I have been working so hard on my novel ever since I came back that I could not do anything else.

Thank you for your nice letter. You really write very well, so I hope you will write again and not share the sin of all the O'Connors who are even worse than I am about correspondence.

I was very interested to read about your first stage experience. Mimi wrote to me about it too and said that you were very good. If you find by now that you enjoy the work, I wish you a lot of success with it.

I am sending some clothes for you and Mimi, and I am mailing them to Mimi's address because I am not sure that you are in New York at present. The blue suit, which I am sending, is for you. I hope you will like it since you seem to like the same kind of tailored clothes that I wear. It's probably much too large for you, but I think it will be becoming when you have it taken in.

I won't attempt to tell you about my ride in the engine now. I'll tell you all about it when I see you in person. It was a wonderful experience.

What was it you wanted me to tell you about Oscar and Oswald? They are two lion cubs (stuffed) and they are supposed to represent the bad sides of Frank's character. Whenever he pulls a bad joke, he blames it on Oswald; and whenever he loses his temper, it's supposed to be Oscar growling. That's how it all started, but now they have become very real members of our household in the same kind of way as Charlie McCarthy. They have specific characters of their own. You will have to see and hear them to believe any of this.

Now as to the address that has the creoles, it was a German pastry shop on the east side of Lexington, a few doors before you come to the corner of Eighty-sixth Street, coming from downtown. I don't remember the name of the place; I think it was something like Bauers. I don't know if it is still there. If you find it, and they still have the creoles, please buy a pound of them for me too and send them to us along with the bill. I would love to have them, but I want to say in advance that I don't want them as a present because they are quite expensive.

Please let me know what you are doing and how you are getting along. I will try to answer you more promptly next time.

Love from your Aunt and Uncle,

March 20, 1948

Dear Mimi:

The suede dress is for you and the blue suit is for Docky. I am also sending a blouse which I bought and never wore because it is too feminine for me. I thought it would go with the suit for Docky; but since it is so feminine, maybe it would be better for you, so I will let you two decide it. The blue skirt, which I am sending, is a very good hand-knitted one, but it is too short for me now. If you find that it is too short for either of you, maybe it will fit Connie. I am sending the blue bag, gloves and hat which I used to wear with the suit. The hat is quite old, but maybe Docky can use it by having it reblocked .

Frank is sending a bunch of ties. He does not remember which tie it was that David liked. If it is not among the ones he is sending, would you describe what it looked like, and if it is not one of my particular pets, we'll send it on.

My long silence has been due to uninterrupted work on my novel. It's going very well, but it's very difficult, and I am working hard. I have done nothing else since returning to Hollywood, and I have no news about myself, except 150,000 words on paper which, I think, will be news when they are published.

You said in your letter that I have been your "conscience" and that you carry on conversations with me in your own mind. That is something you really must tell me more about. Do let me know what it is that I am saying.

Love to you, David and Docky from your old Aunt and Uncle,

May 23, 1948

We were glad to hear from you as we were beginning to wonder what had happened to our nieces. And as I see, something pretty drastic has happened to one of them. I don't know what to think of Docky's marriage. Of course, as you say, it is strictly her own business, and if that is what she wanted, I hope she will be very happy. My regret is that she is rushing into motherhood too soon, but again that is her own decision. I do think that to be a mother at twenty is much too soon, but my attitude on motherhood is just about like yours. I think your statement about it in your letter was very sensible indeed.*

Frank and I are a little startled that Docky did not even let us know. I had a letter from her at the end of December, and since she was already married then, isn't it strange that she did not want to mention it? Did she keep it secret from all of us because she felt certain that we would disapprove? Well, I cannot attempt to guess her reason, so I can only hope that it will work out for the best.

* Sutton had written to AR that she couldn't think of any good reason to have a baby, and she rejected the notion that one achieves immortality through reproducing oneself.

February 21, 1950

Dear Docky:

Our congratulations and best wishes to you on the birth of your little daughter.

I was very sorry to learn from Fabian, when he telephoned us while he was here, that the baby has a difficult heart condition. But I hope that the doctors will be able to help her and that an operation may be done to adjust the condition. I know that it is a hard problem for you, but I hope that you will have the brave attitude which Fabian had about it and that the baby will be alright. Needless to say you have all our sympathy and best wishes for her health. Love from both of us.

Ellen

The baby was named Marta, she had several operations, the last one was when she was fourteen. She lived well for seven good years, then her health started failing and at twenty five she died. ~Cathy~

[Cathy]

Thank you Ellen, I made a mistake...it was Mimi that Peikoff sent a $1,000 to after Ayn's death. Also Mimi had a son and daughter, son's name is George Daniel (Danny) daughter Louise. Lee never married or had children. Mimi was thought to have colon cancer and diabetes. BTW, connie never paid back the $25...it came after her prom and an uncle on her father's side bought the prom dress for her. But Aunt Alice did send $20 for her graduation gift after sending the "loan" of $25. Connie never asked to borrow money from her again. Margaret was married to a James Rhoades and had one son Jimmy. I think she died of breast cancer. Found out that Joe (O'Connor) left Aunt Agnes a life insurance policy upon his death. ~Cathy~ p.s. Marna (Doc) still has original letters from Ayn.

Cathy,

Thanks for the corrections and new information.

Oh, goody that Marna/Docky still has the original letters from Rand.

I wonder how many more there were than the ones I copied above - see post #607; I've filled in the whole set to Docky from the book, plus two to Mimi which have reference to Docky.

I wonder if Marna/Docky kept her letters to AR.

Oh, also, how did AR sign? As Aunt Alice or Aunt Ayn? (Somehow "Aunt Ayn" sounds comical to me, like an oxymoron.)

What name does Marna/Docky go by these days? Does she still use "Docky," or would she rather be called Marna?

Ellen

Ellen, I am going to go visit her June 2nd...I am very excited! I talked to her today and she said my Aunt Agnes (her mother) is buried near where she lives, so I will visit my aunts grave for the first time. She has pictures form me and said she will make 2 copies each so Conny can have some to. I call her Marna, but I will ask if she perfere Doc/Docky. She said when I called the first time, she was up half the night remembering things to tell me...she said she is remembering things that she forgot forever ago. She is 85 and very much with it! She said that the institute told her...after aunt Alice died, that my step mother called them to see if there was any money in it for her. Can you believe that woman...but never told them of me and Conny (my dad was dead by then). Plus my step mother never told us that Alice was Ayn! Marna said she never liked my step mother. I am going to be taking a lot of pictures, her daughter Abby will be there to. Abby is my 2nd cousin and she is my age. Marna didn't like Aunt Alice much. Or Nathanial Branden...she said he was a pompous ass! She never meet Peikoff and never wanted to. She said she was very angry on someone who wrote a book and make it seem as tho the O'Connor's were money leaches...and that was so far from the truth. She confronted the writer and he said that he wrote the book to show how "Ayn" really was with family. But she (Marna) would not except the book from him. I am going to take flowers to put on Aunt Agnes's grave...but what kind of present do I take for a 85 year old...do you have any suggestions? ~Cathy~

[Ellen Stuttle]

Marna didn't like Aunt Alice much. Or Nathanial Branden...she said he was a pompous ass!

How many times did she meet Aunt Alice?

How many times did she meet Branden?

According to Heller, Mimi and Marna attended Rand's lecture appearance at McCormick Place in Chicago in late September 1963. That was the start of the trip to the West Coast which was arranged for Rand to be awarded an honorary doctorate by Lewis and Clark College in Portland, Oregon.

I was in the audience at the McCormick Place lecture, sitting in the front row. I was disimpressed by Branden too, though alert to his electric charisma.

She never meet Peikoff and never wanted to. She said she was very angry on someone who wrote a book and make it seem as tho the O'Connor's were money leaches...and that was so far from the truth. She confronted the writer and he said that he wrote the book to show how "Ayn" really was with family. But she (Marna) would not except the book from him.

I don't know what book she's referring to. There's a recent book the name of which and author of which I can't think of at the moment. Maybe it's that one.

I am going to take flowers to put on Aunt Agnes's grave...but what kind of present do I take for a 85 year old...do you have any suggestions? ~Cathy~

Maybe some kind of special food treat that she likes, or if she mentions something from her youth - a book, a movie she liked, a singer - something nostalgic.

Ellen

[Cathy]

Marna didn't like Aunt Alice much. Or Nathanial Branden...she said he was a pompous ass!

How many times did she meet Aunt Alice?

How many times did she meet Branden?

According to Heller, Mimi and Marna attended Rand's lecture appearance at McCormick Place in Chicago in late September 1963. That was the start of the trip to the West Coast which was arranged for Rand to be awarded an honorary doctorate by Lewis and Clark College in Portland, Oregon.

I was in the audience at the McCormick Place lecture, sitting in the front row. I was disimpressed by Branden too, though alert to his electric charisma.

She never meet Peikoff and never wanted to. She said she was very angry on someone who wrote a book and make it seem as tho the O'Connor's were money leaches...and that was so far from the truth. She confronted the writer and he said that he wrote the book to show how "Ayn" really was with family. But she (Marna) would not except the book from him.

I don't know what book she's referring to. There's a recent book the name of which and author of which I can't think of at the moment. Maybe it's that one.

I am going to take flowers to put on Aunt Agnes's grave...but what kind of present do I take for a 85 year old...do you have any suggestions? ~Cathy~

Maybe some kind of special food treat that she likes, or if she mentions something from her youth - a book, a movie she liked, a singer - something nostalgic.

Ellen

Ellen, Marna lived in New York for a while when Aunt Alice and Uncle Frank lived there. She seen them a lot. Aunt Alice would make her and Uncle Frank act out her screen plays. She called her Aunt Ayn...looks like me and Conny were the only ones who didn't know about "Ayn". I believe she told me at some point Barbara and Nathanial stayed at Mimi's for some reason...Ill find out more. I will also see what she likes...but you gave me some good ideas, thanks. ~Cathy~

[Ellen Stuttle]

In post #606, I listed letters to members of Frank's family which were included in Letters of Ayn Rand.

(There was one letter to Nick Carter which I didn't list yet and haven't yet read. Nick died in January 1945.)

I've now added links on that post to those letters which I've copied in other posts on this thread.

Something to note about the date range.

The total number of letters to Frank's family members included is 17 (leaving out the letter to Nick).

15 of those letters come from the time period December 2, 1945, to February 21, 1950.

That is, they fall within a time period of four years and three months.

All of those 15 were sent from California, although a couple of them refer to trips Ayn and Frank had taken to the East Coast.

Nathaniel Branden gives March 2, 1950, as the date when he met AR at her California home.

According to the chronology in 100 Voices, Ayn and Frank left California on October 17, 1951, headed for New York City. They arrived in NYC on October 23, 1951.

I think it's documented by Heller that they stopped over in Cleveland on the way. (I'll check later.)

Between February 21, 1950, when she wrote a letter to Marna expressing sympathy about the daughter (Marta, not named in the letter) who was born with a heart problem, and the last letter Ayn wrote, the one dated December 22, 1981, to Mimi, enclosing some money to help with holiday dinner for guests, there is only one letter to an O'Connor family member included in Letters.

That's the one dated April 3, 1965, thanking Mimi for a gift of recordings.

I.e., the Letters volume cites only one letter to an O'Connor family member during a somewhat more than 30-year stretch, at about the halfway point.

Why the paucity?

Several hypotheses:

Having moved to NYC, Ayn took to using the phone to stay in contact with Frank's family - or at least with Mimi. There are references in the biographies to Ayn's talking by phone with Mimi in the late '70s.

The decision was made not to include letters which said personal things relating to Nathaniel and Barbara.

Alternately, since the volume was long and the editor had to be selective, he included mostly only those letters to Frank's family members which focused on monetary issues and gift-giving.

Other suggestions?

Ellen

[Cathy]

In post #606, I listed letters to members of Frank's family which were included in Letters of Ayn Rand.

(There was one letter to Nick Carter which I didn't list yet and haven't yet read. Nick died in January 1945.)

I've now added links on that post to those letters which I've copied in other posts on this thread.

Something to note about the date range.

The total number of letters to Frank's family members included is 17 (leaving out the letter to Nick).

15 of those letters come from the time period December 2, 1945, to February 21, 1950.

That is, they fall within a time period of four years and three months.

All of those 15 were sent from California, although a couple of them refer to trips Ayn and Frank had taken to the East Coast.

Nathaniel Branden gives March 2, 1950, as the date when he met AR at her California home.

According to the chronology in 100 Voices, Ayn and Frank left California on October 17, 1951, headed for New York City. They arrived in NYC on October 23, 1951.

I think it's documented by Heller that they stopped over in Cleveland on the way. (I'll check later.)

Between February 21, 1950, when she wrote a letter to Marna expressing sympathy about the daughter (Marta, not named in the letter) who was born with a heart problem, and the last letter Ayn wrote, the one dated December 22, 1981, to Mimi, enclosing some money to help with holiday dinner for guests, there is only one letter to an O'Connor family member included in Letters.

That's the one dated April 3, 1965, thanking Mimi for a gift of recordings.

I.e., the Letters volume cites only one letter to an O'Connor family member during a somewhat more than 30-year stretch, at about the halfway point.

Why the paucity?

Several hypotheses:

Having moved to NYC, Ayn took to using the phone to stay in contact with Frank's family - or at least with Mimi. There are references in the biographies to Ayn's talking by phone with Mimi in the late '70s.

The decision was made not to include letters which said personal things relating to Nathaniel and Barbara.

Alternately, since the volume was long and the editor had to be selective, he included mostly only those letters to Frank's family members which focused on monetary issues and gift-giving.

Other suggestions?

Ellen

Ellen, there wouldn't be any letters to Marna from New York, Marna lived in New York. I believe there were many many more letters. I just cant believe that for four years they were writing back and forth and then stopped. Long distant calls were very expensive back then. I know my dad would call family about twice a month...if he wrote, I don't know. I will ask Marna more about it when I see her. I have been taking notes as I go along. I will also see what letters Marna still has. We will be visiting her June 2nd ~Cathy~

[Ellen Stuttle]

Cathy,

When did Marna live in New York?

You said earlier, in post #614:

"Ellen, Marna lived in New York for a while when Aunt Alice and Uncle Frank lived there. She seen them a lot. Aunt Alice would make her and Uncle Frank act out her screen plays."

Heller refers to an occasion when Marna and Frank acted out a screen play Ayn was working on, but that was in 1947 on a stop in NYC after Rand's HUAC testimony. She and Frank didn't live in NYC at that time, but instead in California.

Rand was no longer working on any screen plays by the time she returned to NYC in October 1951. She was heavily at work on Atlas Shrugged, and by then Marna was 23 or 24 and had already had two children, if I've tracked her children right. (Marta was the second, yes? no?).

Are you saying that Marna lived in New York City at some time or times during the period October 23, 1951, to Ayn's death, March 6, 1982?

Ellen

[Cathy]

Cathy,

When did Marna live in New York?

You said earlier, in post #614:

"Ellen, Marna lived in New York for a while when Aunt Alice and Uncle Frank lived there. She seen them a lot. Aunt Alice would make her and Uncle Frank act out her screen plays."

Heller refers to an occasion when Marna and Frank acted out a screen play Ayn was working on, but that was in 1947 on a stop in NYC after Rand's HUAC testimony. She and Frank didn't live in NYC at that time, but instead in California.

Rand was no longer working on any screen plays by the time she returned to NYC in October 1951. She was heavily at work on Atlas Shrugged, and by then Marna was 23 or 24 and had already had two children, if I've tracked her children right. (Marta was the second, yes? no?).

Are you saying that Marta lived in New York City at some time or times during the period October 23, 1951, to Ayn's death, March 6, 1982?

Ellen

Ellen, I think she did. I could be wrong...but I think she told me the first child was born in New York. I'll find out for sure when I see her. Marta was her 2nd child. Actually I think she told me both of them were born in N.Y. and she moved to Chicago before Abby was born in 58. But I will find out for sure...I didn't put that in my notes ~Cathy~

[Ellen Stuttle]

Cathy,

You replied before I managed to correct the typo in the last paragraph - I meant Marna, not Marta. Fortunatley, you read what I meant instead of what I wrote.

Please do find out if Marna was living in NYC during the '50s. Yikes, she might have some really significant information if she was and if she saw her aunt and uncle during that stretch.

Ellen

[Cathy]

Cathy,

You replied before I managed to correct the typo in the last paragraph - I meant Marna, not Marta. Fortunatley, you read what I meant instead of what I wrote.

Please do find out if Marna was living in NYC during the '50s. Yikes, she might have some really significant information if she was and if she saw her aunt and uncle during that stretch.

Ellen

LOL...I noticed and knew what you meant. She's like me...once she started thinking back, she's remembering all kinds of things. I cant wait to see her

[Cathy]

I got the print Brant sent me framed. I put as my profile picture if anyone wants to see it

[Brant Gaede]

I never would have thought of the red matting. It works very well.

--Brant

[Cathy]

I never would have thought of the red matting. It works very well.

--Brant

Yes, I love it...thank you so much again! ~Cathy~

[Peter]

From Silken Prey, page 238, by John Sandford:

Lucas shut down the computer and handed it back to Cochran, stood up, dusted off the seat of his pants, leaned against the porch banister, and told him about the investigation, leaving out only what was necessary. When he was done, Cochran said, You never talked to her? I mean, you talked to her, but you didnt interview her?

Lucas rubbed his face and said, Man its like the old joke. Except the jokes on me.

What joke?

The one about the guy who rolls a wheelbarrow full of sawdust out of a construction site every night.

I dont know that one, Cochran said.

Lucas said, The security guy keeps checking and checking and checking the wheelbarrow, thinking the guy had to be stealing something. Never found anything hidden in the sawdust, and nobody cared about the sawdust. Couple of years later, they bump into each other, and the security guy says, Look, its all in the past, you can tell me now. I know you were stealing something. What was it? And the guy says, Wheelbarrows.

[Cathy]

From Silken Prey, page 238, by John Sandford:

Lucas shut down the computer and handed it back to Cochran, stood up, dusted off the seat of his pants, leaned against the porch banister, and told him about the investigation, leaving out only what was necessary. When he was done, Cochran said, You never talked to her? I mean, you talked to her, but you didnt interview her?

Lucas rubbed his face and said, Man its like the old joke. Except the jokes on me.

What joke?

The one about the guy who rolls a wheelbarrow full of sawdust out of a construction site every night.

I dont know that one, Cochran said.

Lucas said, The security guy keeps checking and checking and checking the wheelbarrow, thinking the guy had to be stealing something. Never found anything hidden in the sawdust, and nobody cared about the sawdust. Couple of years later, they bump into each other, and the security guy says, Look, its all in the past, you can tell me now. I know you were stealing something. What was it? And the guy says, Wheelbarrows.

very funny. Is there a point to this? ~Cathy~