Brant Gaede Posted July 20, 2014 Share Posted July 20, 2014 You can't even read what I wrote without your fanticism getting the better of you. I didn't say the Holocaust could never happen again. As a combat veteran of the Vietnam War I don't need to be told which side of the protecting-protected balance or divide I exist on.Before I put you on my ignore list I'm simply stating you are an emotionalist and a self-righteous fanatic and if not a moron you might as well be. I appreciate your coming here and shitting because it gives me more clarity on why Israel doesn't need material aid from the United States, but the U.S. needs to give aid to Israel. It's just in case some crazy guy who might as well be King of Israel gets enough power to start a big war Israel will only play a small part then in, so America will have enough leverage to stop it in its tracks.There are all kinds of Jews. Some can't stand others or even any others. You are an obnoxious Jew--to me, anyway--and I can't stand you. The last one I actually met was in college. Not bad when you consider I've met thousands of Jews since and hundreds since who aren't Jews but were obnoxious.I think I'm being extruded by you for I seem to be too close to being a Jew without being a Jew but one who might question aspects of Jewish tribal identity threatening imagined collectivist understanding of what that means. The danger is dissipation of that identity into the more nebulous indentity of what it means to be human if not American (or Canadian). Regardless, you can take your turf war with me and shove it.--Brantignore is done Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Michael Stuart Kelly Posted July 20, 2014 Share Posted July 20, 2014 Wanna know something?I know both of you guys and you are both wonderful people.I think you are talking past each other and a misunderstanding grew.I know enough to know that neither of you are a caricature.Michael Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brant Gaede Posted July 20, 2014 Share Posted July 20, 2014 Michael, I don't generally cut off conversations with people who try to be rational about the subject matter. But substituting feelings for brains only works in a fight or in bed. I chose not to go to the mat any more with a guy who keeps on adding wood to a fire of irrational fulmination so I just dropped a huge bucket of water on it.--Brantcranky old man who, like Ayn Rand needed, needs, to get laid more often Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Michael Stuart Kelly Posted July 20, 2014 Share Posted July 20, 2014 Brant,Marc is a lot more rational than this flare-up represents.So are you. How's that for throwing some more gasoline on the fire?Michael Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Michael Stuart Kelly Posted July 20, 2014 Share Posted July 20, 2014 btw - You both get my unconditional endorsement as wonderful people.I don't say that about many.Michael Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
caroljane Posted July 20, 2014 Share Posted July 20, 2014 Michael is right, Brant. Marc has also had some perfectly rational conversations about hockey despite his Phillyphilia.carolEgger-on Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Michael Stuart Kelly Posted July 20, 2014 Share Posted July 20, 2014 Carol,I include you.btw - It's great to see you coming back around.Michael Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
caroljane Posted July 20, 2014 Share Posted July 20, 2014 Thx MSK (adroitly shifting spotlight to self)' I am for the present installed at my son,s place under orders to do exactly what I like most, lie around the house doing nothing more strenuous than reading and not wearing many clothes, being waited on. IPad courtesy of the management.I am up for parole in two weeks. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PDS Posted July 20, 2014 Share Posted July 20, 2014 Wanna know something?I know both of you guys and you are both wonderful people.I think you are talking past each other and a misunderstanding grew.I know enough to know that neither of you are a caricature.MichaelNot that anybody should care, but I agree with MSK here. You guys are two ships passing in the night right now. Might be best to just take a breather on this thread for you guys. With that said, I think Marc is underestimating the role humor plays in Brant's comments, both here and elsewhere, and that is what has pissed Brant off most. Brant is not minimizing the gravity of the situation with his humor. Not at all. Dark humor has it's place. And Brant is a very, very smart guy. Ironically, just yesterday, I was talking to one somebody who could be regarded as one of the world's smartest Jews (I am not exagerrating with this description) on a different topic and his comment was, "sometimes all you can do is laugh." True today, and true yesterday too, even when that humor misses the mark. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Michael Stuart Kelly Posted July 20, 2014 Share Posted July 20, 2014 David,I agree with you, but I understand Marc's perspective, too.Suppose someone came up to you and told you that the problem with lawyers is that they need to charge a lot less money, do some real work for a change and get some perspective on reality instead of hairsplitting for bucks all the time. And they suggest a bunch of other concessions and compromises without lawyers getting anything substantial in return. And they lace it with a ton of lawyer jokes. To top it off, they justify lawyer bashers, saying these poor souls are misunderstood. And then as icing, they see nothing wrong with an organization that wants to abolish the profession of lawyers altogether--not that they agree with it. They just don't think it's important.And if you--a lawyer--get a little edgy when talking about this, they say you are overreacting, emotionalist, etc.That would be a pisser, don't you think?Now imagine if there were a recent attempt at genocide of the lawyers. Real genocide. Like kill all lawyers and the families of lawyers, women, children and elderly. All that pisser stuff would be multiplied a thousandfold.I don't think non-Jewish people properly get what an open wound the Holocaust is in the Jewish psyche. There are fMRI scans that show the same areas of the brain light up for rejection as for physical pain. Well, if an entire people attempt to obliterate the bloodline of your race and/or culture, and you with it, that's rejection like I personally have never experienced.I can't think of any Jewish person I have known who hasn't had a family member, however distant, personally touched by the Holocaust.On another point, in our little world, there is a subtle irritant for Jews. There are some roots in libertarianism that go back to the Deep South where anti-Jewish bigotry is still alive and kicking. (You see this around Lew Rockwell, for instance--not all people, of course, but there are some staunch neo-Confederates.) The bigotry is mostly underground these days along with the racism, but it's still there.This gets reflected in non-bigoted places like OL by the fact that we have so few examples of the Jewish perspective. This was true even when Barbara was alive and posting regularly--and she was a hardline supporter of Israel.We get a lot more of critics than defenders of Israel, both harsh critics and light ones, when discussing details. Not so much in terms of generalities where the bent is vaguely in support of Israel. But when specific documents or historical events are discussed, the Israeli side rarely gets well represented. And that makes it seem odd when a Jewish non-apologetic supporter of Israel like Marc appears and says there's a ton of shit that needs to be on the table in these discussions, that it's time for people to stop ignoring it as if it doesn't exist. And he points to some.This issue might be abstract for most, but for Jews who live that reality, talking about months and months of Hamas rockets is not a colorful story like 4th of July fireworks. It's a real threat. They don't want to see the people they love killed in target practice. And why in hell should they be the targets in target practice anyway? On a symbolic level, this comes off as the same thinking against Jews as the Holocaust. So, like with all threats, some emotion comes with that.I find this completely understandable. If I were Jewish, I would probably be quite a number on this issue. btw - We have Bob (Ba'al) for our normal Jewish perspective and he can be outspoken at times, but he rarely gets into details. He stays general and says don't fuck with the Jews. Michael Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PDS Posted July 20, 2014 Share Posted July 20, 2014 Well said, Michael, and the point is better than you meant because I at least have the choice of being a lawyer. Robert Nozick rather famously said that the Holocaust proves, in effect, that humanity has itself forfeited its special claim on existence.Nobody who is not Jewish can truly--truly--understand these things, me thinks. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brant Gaede Posted July 20, 2014 Share Posted July 20, 2014 Brant,Marc is a lot more rational than this flare-up represents.So are you. How's that for throwing some more gasoline on the fire? Michael@%%#^&&*&(&)(__(*%()*)_+)++(_(_()**^%%$@!#!!!!!%$$%^%*(*&(*()*(++)_)()(&&^^3&^&%&^$%$#%$^&*&%%^&*^&*&9=THIS SPACE IS BLANK THIS SPACE IS BLANK THIS SPACE IS BLANK THIS SPACE IS BLANK THIS SPACE IS BLANK THIS SPACE IS BLANK THIS SPACE ISN'T BLANK THIS SPACE IS BLANK [ ] THIS SPACE IS BLANK THIS SPACE IS BLANK THIS SPACE IS BLANK THIS SPACE IS BLANK THIS SPACE IS BLANK THIS SPACE IS BLANK THIS SPACGrumpety grump.--Branthard to believe we were both friends of Barbara Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Michael Stuart Kelly Posted July 21, 2014 Share Posted July 21, 2014 I just got a new image program from Laughingbird software called Character Creator (it runs within their Logo Creator).And I made my very first little character.My very first one.I don't know why I feel like showing him off right now, but I feel this irresistible urge... (I just couldn't resist... Ain't he cute? )Michael Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brant Gaede Posted July 21, 2014 Share Posted July 21, 2014 Uh, Michael--do you have anger issues?--Brantheh, evil me, heh, heh Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
moralist Posted July 21, 2014 Share Posted July 21, 2014 I love the United States . I love their understanding of political events and how they could affect good folks down in Arizona , protecting them while the ones like you do not even grasp why you need protecting , or from who you need protecting .That's an important point about protection that gets lost easily:Many people simply don't understand evil. Evil people can only be stopped by good people... with force.Greg Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jules Troy Posted July 21, 2014 Share Posted July 21, 2014 I just got a new image program from Laughingbird software called Character Creator (it runs within their Logo Creator).And I made my very first little character.My very first one.I don't know why I feel like showing him off right now, but I feel this irresistible urge... (I just couldn't resist... Ain't he cute? )Michael Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jules Troy Posted July 21, 2014 Share Posted July 21, 2014 ROTFLMAO! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brant Gaede Posted July 21, 2014 Share Posted July 21, 2014 I just reviewed the entire thread. I got a little too mad and that's too bad. I do note that English is not Marc's first language and that played a minor role in the contretempts. Nevertheless, I won't be having any more discussions with him. As a Jew he's at war along with Israel, but I'm neither and neither is OL--not as a primary. Thus we must necessarily talk past each other because of the different orientations. He has been using this thread as a soapbox.As for what's going on in Gaza, it's a war Israel might win de facto but never de jure. Hamas can't continue by surrendering so it won't whatever the price. What Hamas is succeeding in doing is having Israel futher radicalize Hamas' subject population, a population Israel gave over to Hamas when it let the PLO back into the area from effective exile. Then Sharon pulled the Jews out of Gaza apparently because of great pressure from the United States re-enforced by a strategic rationalization which will only work if it's continued to play out to a good conclusion for Israel for it has otherwise come a cropper. Only if the Palestinians turn on Hamas instead of turning more for Hamas will this offensive be successful for Israel. That's completely up in the air. If Israel fails to achieve this result it will be a disaster. Hamas will be many times stronger. The launching of its missiles, which did little damage, could only be designed to maintain and provoke the conflict it is married to. Hamas must want perpetual war. It can't win. It must know that. So the goal must be not to win but to fight and the manufacture of martyrs. It all goes back and deep into the Muslim religion which excludes individuality, thinking, productive effort, freedom, creativity. All contradicted by Judeo-Christianity upon which the West is culturally based.The over thousand year war goes on. 9/11 was only an attempt to expand the battlefield. It was brilliant and effective considering the overall stupid response by the United States. Not to say the U.S. shouldn't have responded, but invading Iraq in 2003 was a tactical mistake with major strategic consequences. And there was little need to traduce American freedoms with a "war on terror." Another interminable war for the sake of war. A war the American antagonists need more than Americans do. They can't. win, but as with Hamas, winning isn't the point. The war is.(edit) Hamas: look at how strong we must be for all that firepower to be directed at us. The whole world cannot stop Israel but we shall prevail for we are stronger, we are mightier than even the whole world!--Brantmutual bloating up enemies into the bloat up of war with warfare Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Selene Posted July 21, 2014 Share Posted July 21, 2014 Hamas is similar to the Spartans in some respects.Not like the Samurai though.Somewhat similar to the non-Samurai WW II Japanese, wherein, death was a positive goal.Hamas' reality is a state of perpetual war, with, peace and cease fires are the abnormal states. Peace, or, cease fires are strategic opportunities to re-arm and re-supply.And of course, war creates dead and wounded for a continued re-supply of fanatics from birth.Nice little paradigm.A... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Backlighting Posted July 21, 2014 Share Posted July 21, 2014 I just got a new image program from Laughingbird software called Character Creator (it runs within their Logo Creator).And I made my very first little character.My very first one.I don't know why I feel like showing him off right now, but I feel this irresistible urge... (I just couldn't resist... Ain't he cute? )MichaelI'm considering the purchase of that software. Looks like it's really interesting & fun.Are you running it on Mac? Which version if so?I'll need it to run on Mavericks 10.9.4Thanks Michael.Joe Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brant Gaede Posted July 21, 2014 Share Posted July 21, 2014 Michael gave me the finger. Michael gave me the finger. Michael gave me the finger.But why don't I feel Michael gave me the finger?Because he did it with love?--Brantbut where's the lube?oh, there's another possibility!Michael was just caricaturing me and Marc Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
anthony Posted July 21, 2014 Share Posted July 21, 2014 It's a unique relationship, best understood by both peoples themselves, madness to others. Golda Meir has come often to mind, as the deaths climb: "We can forgive the Arabs for killing our children. We cannot forgive them for forcing us to kill their children. We will only have peace with the Arabs when they love their children more than they hate us". That was said, when? 40 years ago? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Backlighting Posted July 21, 2014 Share Posted July 21, 2014 Hamas is similar to the Spartans in some respects.Not like the Samurai though.Somewhat similar to the non-Samurai WW II Japanese, wherein, death was a positive goal.Hamas' reality is a state of perpetual war, with, peace and cease fires are the abnormal states. Peace, or, cease fires are strategic opportunities to re-arm and re-supply.And of course, war creates dead and wounded for a continued re-supply of fanatics from birth.Nice little paradigm.A...Yeah, they (Hamas) have got the game down pat. It's worked for them so far.Like cockroaches, they easily & effectively re-supply their army.-Joe Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Selene Posted July 21, 2014 Share Posted July 21, 2014 It's a unique relationship, best understood by both peoples themselves, madness to others.Golda Meir has come often to mind, as the deaths climb: "We can forgive the Arabs for killing our children. We cannot forgive them for forcing us to kill their children. We will only have peace with the Arabs when they love their children more than they hate us".That was said, when? 40 years ago?Tony:Thank you for that quote.One of the foundational phrases that I employ in divorce and family mediations, is, "obviously, by your actions in this divorce, you both hate each other more than you love your children."And then, I shut up.Some of the longest pauses follow that statement.A... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PDS Posted July 21, 2014 Share Posted July 21, 2014 It's a unique relationship, best understood by both peoples themselves, madness to others.Golda Meir has come often to mind, as the deaths climb: "We can forgive the Arabs for killing our children. We cannot forgive them for forcing us to kill their children. We will only have peace with the Arabs when they love their children more than they hate us".That was said, when? 40 years ago?Tony:Thank you for that quote.One of the foundational phrases that I employ in divorce and family mediations, is, "obviously, by your actions in this divorce, you both hate each other more than you love your children."And then, I shut up.Some of the longest pauses follow that statement.A...That's a great way of putting it, Adam. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Create an account or sign in to comment
You need to be a member in order to leave a comment
Create an account
Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!
Register a new accountSign in
Already have an account? Sign in here.
Sign In Now