Ukraine and Endless War for Profit

Hopefully soon the Dept of State will get a handle on international relations and the specific consequences of such relations and existential actions.

What would it mean to assume they do have a handle on it ? Shit that would be almost monstrous!

14 hours ago, tmj said:

Hopefully soon the Dept of State will get a handle on international relations and the specific consequences of such relations and existential actions.

On the news it said, Israel and Saudi Arabia had "Met" an "Accord" and that is when Hamas, backed by Iran, began their terrorist actions.  And "I heard" on the news yada yada yada. We are backing Israel.   

edit. some more bad stuff is about to happen.

8 hours ago, Peter said:

 

edit. some more bad stuff is about to happen.

Israel is not a turn the other cheek kind of nation , so probably in Gaza, yeah.

2 hours ago, tmj said:

Israel is not a turn the other cheek kind of nation , so probably in Gaza, yeah.

“600 plus Israelis killed in Hamas terror attacks.”

Israel is an ally and I am sure we are providing any intelligence on Hamas we have to them. And perhaps America can do more. Here is some news: “The US military plans to move navy ships and military aircraft closer to Israel as a show of support, according to officials. Some 800 Hamas targets have been struck in Gaza - with hundreds of fighters killed and dozens captured, Israeli officials say . . . .”

There are 64 pages of this discussion so far and note:

1. Putin has not lost the war in Ukraine as the mainstream media said over and over, nor has he been assassinated or died from an illness or been deposed.

2. Ukraine has become devastated and almost lost an entire generation of male citizens in a massive slaughter called this poorly fought boondoggle on the Ukrainian side dressed up as war, contrary to the daily mainstream news headlines for years now saying Ukraine was winning.

3. So much money has been stolen, even Zelensky's own people are talking about it to the very same mainstream media that clamored for the billions and billions of dollars to be sent there.

I could go on and on, but now, in the leftwing mainstream media, NBC, lookee what is happening:

U.S., European officials broach topic of peace negotiations with Ukraine, sources say

WWW.NBCNEWS.COM

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The conversations have included very broad outlines of what Ukraine might need to give up to reach a deal with Russia.

The Predator Class is now pushing Zelensky to kiss and make up with Putin.

And, of course, we all know that is going to entail Russia keeping a part of the Ukraine (mostly the Donbass region).

Why am I not surprised?

Seriously, though. All those people murdered on both sides for what?

Predator Class money?

Bah...

To be fair, this nudging (and the later upcoming shoving) Zelensky to stop fighting is not due to any moral position, nor freedom, nor any war position for that matter, by the Predator Class.

It is mostly due to the Hamas attack on Israel, which promises to free up far more moolah for the Deep State than the promoters of the Ukraine war ever dreamed of. Hell, we might go off into WW3 and blow tons of shit to smithereens all over the world.

Woo hoo!

Talk about money flowing to the Military Industrial Complex. WW3 is celebrated by the Deep State with Christmas Carols and songs of hallelujah.

We--those who are not insiders--all get screwed, but who cares about that when there is all that money to be grifted?

And, of course, here on OL we get to argue for another 64 pages minimum about that.

Michael

How do we get our money back?

CIA boss heads for Z-Day in Kiev as Ukraine falters - Asia Times

ASIATIMES.COM

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Wednesday, November 15th is Z-Day for the War in Ukraine. CIA Chief William Burns will arrive in Kiev for urgent, secret meetings with

Purges coming...

Michael

On 11/5/2023 at 8:23 AM, Michael Stuart Kelly said:

There are 64 pages of this discussion so far and note:

1. Putin has not lost the war in Ukraine as the mainstream media said over and over, nor has he been assassinated or died from an illness or been deposed.

2. Ukraine has become devastated and almost lost an entire generation of male citizens in a massive slaughter called this poorly fought boondoggle on the Ukrainian side dressed up as war, contrary to the daily mainstream news headlines for years now saying Ukraine was winning.

3. So much money has been stolen, even Zelensky's own people are talking about it to the very same mainstream media that clamored for the billions and billions of dollars to be sent there.

 

I could go on and on, but now, in the leftwing mainstream media, NBC, lookee what is happening:

U.S., European officials broach topic of peace negotiations with Ukraine, sources say

WWW.NBCNEWS.COM

---

The conversations have included very broad outlines of what Ukraine might need to give up to reach a deal with Russia.

The Predator Class is now pushing Zelensky to kiss and make up with Putin.

And, of course, we all know that is going to entail Russia keeping a part of the Ukraine (mostly the Donbass region).

Why am I not surprised?

 

Seriously, though. All those people murdered on both sides for what?

Predator Class money?

Bah...

 

To be fair, this nudging (and the later upcoming shoving) Zelensky to stop fighting is not due to any moral position, nor freedom, nor any war position for that matter, by the Predator Class.

It is mostly due to the Hamas attack on Israel, which promises to free up far more moolah for the Deep State than the promoters of the Ukraine war ever dreamed of. Hell, we might go off into WW3 and blow tons of shit to smithereens all over the world.

Woo hoo!

Talk about money flowing to the Military Industrial Complex. WW3 is celebrated by the Deep State with Christmas Carols and songs of hallelujah.

We--those who are not insiders--all get screwed, but who cares about that when there is all that money to be grifted?

And, of course, here on OL we get to argue for another 64 pages minimum about that.

 

Michael

And one solution to everything 

NEVER FORGET what happened in 2020 and vote the Trump/Tucker ticket in in 2024!

A movie about Napoleon is out. I don’t plan on seeing it because he may be one of the most evil people of all time. He constantly “initiated force” in his attempts to subjugate the world. Peter

From Wikipedia: Napoleonic Wars casualties. Total dead and missing 2,500,000 military personnel in Europe. 1,000,000 civilians were killed in Europe and in rebellious French overseas colonies. Total: 3,500,000 casualties

David Gates estimated that 5,000,000 died in the Napoleonic Wars. He does not specify if this number includes civilians or is just military.

Charles Esdaile says 5,000,000–7,000,000 died overall, including civilians. These numbers are subject to considerable variation. Erik Durschmied, in his book The Hinge Factor, gives a figure of 1.4 million French military deaths of all causes. Adam Zamoyski estimates that around 400,000 Russian soldiers died in the 1812 campaign alone. By contrast, Micheal Clodfelter gives the figure of 289,000 in Russian battles between 1805-1814. Civilian casualties in the 1812 campaign were probably comparable. Alan Schom estimates some 3 million military deaths in the Napoleonic wars. Common estimates of more than 500,000 French dead in Russia in 1812 and 250,000–300,000 French dead in Iberia between 1808 and 1814 give a total of at least 750,000, and to this must be added hundreds of thousands of more French dead in other campaigns—probably around 150,000 to 200,000 French dead in the German campaign of 1813, for example. Thus, it is fair to say that the estimates above are highly conservative.

The chickens are coming home to roost in the Ukraine debacle and no amount of "controlling the narrative" is going to stop them.

They have reality on their side.

Proof? Or at least an indication?

An increase in these kinds of articles:

Explaining The Failure To Properly Assess Russia | The Gateway Pundit | by Larry Johnson

WWW.THEGATEWAYPUNDIT.COM

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Kudos to Andrei Martyanov for highlighting an article I missed — Bad history makes for bad policy on Ukraine — by Robert English.

From the article:

Quote

The unanswered question implicit in English’s observations about Russia outproducing, not just the United States, but NATO as a whole is this — why are Western intelligence analysts so ignorant of Russia’s industrial capability? Early on in the Special Military Operation I was writing pieces about Russia’s rich supply of natural resources and minerals essential for producing bombs, drones, tanks, artillery and missiles. Russia, unlike the United States and Europe, was not dependent on imports to sustain its military industrial capability. It is self-sufficient and has trained workers who can do the job required to manufacture such items.

. . .

It is true that Russia has “quantity” on its side. But it is not needlessly expending the blood of its 20 year olds. It is using quantities of artillery and drones and aerial bombs (FABS) to demilitarize Ukraine. Russia can and is producing more bombs, rockets, missiles, shells, tanks, drone and aircraft than the West combined. That’s the message Washington needs to hear.

The worst part is that Western intelligence analysts are not ignorant of Russia’s industrial capability. They lie on purpose because they are serving the Deep State to make moolah...

They WANT endless war for profit and they are looking to the diplomatic side to see how this war can be prolonged without looking like that is what they are doing.

People intent on winning a war do obvious things:
1. Produce weapons,
2. Train the military,
3. Analyze the enemy's strengths and weaknesses,
4. Strategize how to win the war,
5. Fight the enemy with that in mind.

Any questions?

The Deep State is doing this instead:
1. Trying (and starting to fail) to produce weapons overseas--either wholesale or with imported manufacturing inputs coming from a globalized overseas,
2. Pollute and weaken the military on the US side with woke crap and poison jabs (see this beauty: Army sends letter to troops dismissed for refusing COVID vaccine amid military's recruitment woes -- they are begging the soldiers they dismissed to come back), and on the Ukrainian side recruit and draft gobs of untrained people for their military, going so far as to conscript pregnant women for the front lines,
3. Ignore and misinform the public about the enemy's strengths and weaknesses by "controlling the narrative,"
4. Strategize in the backrooms how to prolong the war to keep the government money rolling into their pockets while releasing "analysts" in the press to keep up a constant smokescreen by making up shit and misinforming the public that Russia is getting its ass kicked,
5. Fight the enemy with that in mind at the top, even as they say differently with patriotic slogans to those at the bottom.

Meanwhile, Ukraine has become an enormous killing field of Ukraine's military. Ukraine, just by forced conscription of unqualified citizens to fight and military deaths alone, is losing an entire generation of productive citizens. The only good news (if you can call it good news) is that Russia has been reluctant to wage war with indiscriminate collateral damage to Ukrainian civilians. It fights Ukraine's military for the most part.

In short, on the Western side, this is a big fucking grift soaked in blood. Western leaders did it on purpose that way. They hatched the goddam war that way. It continues that way. I hope it will not end that way, but I bet it does.

Russia might be an enemy threatening the stability of the world. But right now, I see the bigger enemy as internal--by far. 

We need to get rid of the Deep State and the administrative state along with it. Once that happens, if we need to fight Russia, we will go out and kick their asses and go home. That's what Americans did to foreign enemies in 2 world wars and have not done since.

Guess why? 

Oh... and there's my cognitive before normative thing. Look at the headline of the article: "Explaining The Failure To Properly Assess Russia." Then remember, if you do not identify something correctly, you cannot judge it correctly. And you sure as hell can't fight it correctly.

Michael

The Predator Class wants their free moneys from the guvment and they are getting pissy about it. 

Elon weighed in.

Fuck the Predator Class.

Let them personally go fight their own goddam endless wars for profit. And let them pay for it out of their own pockets, too.

Michael

Double posting Tucker to here.

1 minute ago, Michael Stuart Kelly said:

Episode 47.

The Plight of American Citizen Gonzalo Lira. His has been imprisoned and tortured in Ukraine--for months--with the complicity of the Biden administration for his political opinions about Ukraine.

No smiley this time. I am pissed.

Michael

Heh...

Will he and his Deep State cronies give the money back?

Hell no.

It was never about war and only about money. The money dried up, time to make peace.

I just hope Putin is amenable.

I'm tired of all the needless killing that endless war for profit causes.

Here's a thought. Dirt on American politicians permeated Ukraine for decades. Does anyone think this dirt magically disappeared now that peacetime is coming?

Hmmmmm?...

Or do the Deep State jackals want more monies.?

Michael

Well it looks like only people whose name begins with B had any nefarious dealings in the region, and thank goodness that shows signs of being cleaned up and dealt with, just like taking Capone out with tax violations ended organized crime.

12 hours ago, Michael Stuart Kelly said:

Heh...

If anyone needs a deeper source, here you go.

Ukraine-Krieg – Selenski kündigt überraschend Friedens­gespräche in der Schweiz an

WWW.TAGESANZEIGER.CH

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Der ukrainische Präsident schreibt auf X, in der Schweiz solle eine Friedensordnung für die Ukraine diskutiert werden. Sogar Datum und Ort stehen schon fest. Das Aussendepartement bestätigt die Pläne.

Here is a translation from Google

Zelensky unexpectedly announces peace talks in Switzerland

The Ukrainian president writes on X that a peace order for Ukraine should be discussed in Switzerland. Even the date and location have already been decided. The Foreign Ministry confirms the plans.

Will Volodimir Zelensky come to Davos himself? Foreign Minister Ignazio Cassis (left) with Ukrainian President Volodimir Zelensky during Cassis’s visit in October 2022.

Ukrainian President Volodymyr Zelensky made the surprise announcement on the other side of the world, in Argentina, where he attended the inauguration of new President Javier Milei. In January, Zelensky announced on Platform X on Sunday afternoon, peace talks on Ukraine would take place - in Switzerland.

Zelenskiy posted this news almost casually - after a meeting with the President of Uruguay. Zelensky wrote afterwards that he hoped that Uruguay would take part in “the next round” of talks on a “peace formula” for Ukraine – and specified that this round of talks would take place in Switzerland.

Peace talks on Ukraine in Switzerland: This is a big surprise. So far nothing has been known about this in this country.

The “peace formula” that Zelensky alludes to is a 10-point peace plan that the Ukrainian president himself launched in November 2022. He wants to lay down principles for peace. The goals include securing the territorial integrity of Ukraine and protecting the population.

Meeting on “Peace Formula”

The last international meeting on this “peace formula” took place in Malta at the end of October. As the Swiss Department of Foreign Affairs (EDA) announced at the time, representatives of the UN and the EU as well as 70 countries took part. Russia was not among them. Switzerland was represented by Ambassador Gabriel Lüchinger, who heads the Department for International Security at the FDFA. Ukraine and Malta jointly organized the meeting. Previously there were two others in Copenhagen and Jidda. Now Switzerland – together with Ukraine – is the next host.

The meeting will take place on the sidelines of the World Economic Forum (WEF) in Davos on January 14th. This was confirmed by the Foreign Ministry upon request from this editorial team. The WEF itself starts on January 15th. This means that the infrastructure can be used - and the security system has already been implemented.

An EDA spokesman writes about Switzerland's role: "Switzerland supports this initiative, like all projects that can serve as a basis for a negotiation process towards a sustainable peace."

“In Switzerland in January 2024”

During his trip to Latin America, Selenski wrote on X, formerly Twitter: “We hope that as many Latin American countries as possible will take part in the next Peace Formula Talks in Switzerland in January 2024.”

It is still unclear whether the Ukrainian president himself will be present in Davos - especially for the subsequent WEF. The Ukrainian embassy could not immediately be reached for comment. So far, however, it has not been heads of state that have met at the “peace formula”, but rather national security advisors.

It is also still unclear which countries will be represented in Davos. The EDA writes that preparations are underway and invitations will be sent out shortly. Further information will be announced at a later date.

Switzerland has already hosted a conference on Ukraine in Lugano in July 2022. The process to rebuild the country was launched there.

I don't know if this source is accurate, but I believe this is the one used for the Disclose.tv notice. It seems like it is accurate.

Here in the English speaking world, I didn't see much about this. Instead there was a lot of talk about the Hanukkah menorah Milei gave to Zelensky,

The mainstream news gist for us out here in English-speaking-land is Zelensky is now with Biden asking for more monies, more monies, more monies and that people are listening...

Double heh...

Frankly, I put more stock in something like this other news. The mainstream media in the English speaking countries are notorious liars and promote hoaxes all the time. Especially when free government monies are on the table.

Michael

Unbelievable.

America. Don't spend you money on your values. Send it to me so I can spend it on my values. Send all of you money to me. All of it. Muh Putin...

Dayaamm!

LOLOLOLOL...

When I was younger, thieves had a little more finesse and nuance...

But wait! There's more!

If that other report is correct, behind the scenes Zelensky is simultaneously setting up peace talks...

Good God!

I wonder how much the Big Guy is getting this time around. I guarantee it is no longer just 10%.

Michael

To be fair, the video is deceptive.

Community notes mentioned that Zelensky was talking about the Ukraine people in his call for sacrifice, not Americans.

I have not confirmed, though. If true, I will no longer repost anything by johnny maga.

As to Zelensky, I don't give a shit. He is responsible for gobs of embezzled $$$ and countless lives lost needlessly. He's not worth spitting about, much less correcting an inaccuracy over.

Michael

On 12/13/2023 at 11:44 PM, Michael Stuart Kelly said:

To be fair, the video is deceptive.

No it isn't.

I was played.

But it's worse.

In case Twitter does not connect, go here. 

Michael

A very good discussion, I'm only glad some can see the perils ahead by mobilizing more troops over there. It seemed to me that NATO could never and would never back down-- too much prestige and credibility at stake. The time to de-escalate and take the negotiation 'off-ramp' was early in 2022 with minimum losses, minimal concessions to Russia and NATO's reputation intact. But - somehow- they believed their own fantasy, Russia would be beaten (military, economy, Putin's overthrow). All fine and upbeat until the reality of the war set in. Once in, Russia wasn't going away. And they fed the major lie to Europeans: Putin intended to invade beyond Ukraine. Ukraine was dragged down for that, "defending Europe". Now my fears of the possibility of false flag attacks to justify a huge operation gets closer.

The Great Reframe starts.

From the NYT:

Ukraine Doesn’t Need All Its Territory to Defeat Putin

Just keep them billions coming in folks.

They'll keep the story going, or change it to adapt.

But for God's sake, keep them billions coming in.

The Oligarchs are running out of caviar and the Predator Class wants to go to warm climates for the winter...

Michael

Naaaahhh, really?

Tip, meet iceberg...

Meanwhile, all those deaths without meaning...

Bah!

Michael

On 6/19/2023 at 12:42 PM, Michael Stuart Kelly said:

Here's the reason the Predator Class doesn't want to launder money fighting an endless war for profit with the CCP over its upcoming invasion of Taiwan (seeing that the CCP in today's world is an ally of Putin and all).

They already laundered their embezzled money with the CCP.

They didn't get to launder it with Putin, ergo the Ukraine war laundromat.

Just for the record, the entire world dodged a bullet yesterday.

The CCP's meddling in the Taiwanese presidential election came to naught despite all the lavish funding and massive effort (legit and otherwise). The Taiwanese people prefer freedom to communism. Period.

Lai Ching-te, the current vice president of Taiwan, will now become president.

Taiwan voters dismiss China warnings and hand ruling party a historic third consecutive presidential win | CNN

WWW.CNN.COM

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Taiwan’s ruling Democratic Progressive Party pulled off a historic third consecutive presidential victory on Saturday as voters shrugged off warnings by China that their re-election would increase the risk of conflict.

Oh...

And how did this happen?

Simple. Start with paper ballots. Then:

Now why did the world dodge a bullet?

Just look at the inept crooked impostor in the White House. The Chinese Communist Party owns Joe Biden and his entire family, not to mention almost all of his insiders and cohorts.

And, for that matter, the CCP owns a crapload of prominent Objectivists, too. A while back, I was given a heads up on a few offline, and not only did I agree since I know of several others on my own, a hell of a lot of interactions and observations I have had over the years fell into place.

Rather than bicker about this person or that, though, answer me this. Can you hear the thundering silence in O-Land about this election in Taiwan? After all, this election is ready-made for Objectivist discussion, with all the standard Objectivist talking points, Rand quotes, everything, just sitting there out in the open for years and now waiting to be picked up and posted. You don't even need to goose any angles.

(silence)

Nope. I don't hear it in O-Land. But I do hear it in MAGA places, starting right near the top:

I believe Xi would have been 50-50 on invading Taiwan had his dude won. And if the CCP did that, God knows what the ramifications would be on the rest of the world.

Anyway, that is now speculation, not a clear and present threat.

And, due to things staying the same, some people in our neck of the woods can be consoled. They can still count their CCP money under the table and under the radar.

I, for one, vastly prefer to worry about the Ukraine grift and the Israel-Hamas mess than worry about a CCP invasion of Taiwan.

Michael

If you want more, Steve Bannon did a full episode on his War Room about this election.

Episode 3314: Victory In Taiwan

RUMBLE.COM

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Episode 3314: Victory In Taiwan

Michael

In thinking about the Taiwan election, I came up with a metaphor. Nobody really cares about the Taiwanese election, even though everyone knows it's something to be concerned about.

It's like watching a sick man smoke a cigar. You know it's wrong, you know the man's sick, but it's just not your problem.

Now let that sick man light up his cigar inside a munitions dump while sitting on a barrel of gasoline. And you live on the same block.

That's what this Taiwan election was about.

Yesterday, the cigar man walked out of the munitions dump to light up. 

Later, the man will light up in a different place where they don't have things that go boom. But that's for later.

Notice how all the situations look the same? Just a man lighting a cigar. But there's the commonplace, while the other... well...

I'm proud of the Taiwanese people. I'm really glad WWIII is not breaking out just yet.

And like Freud said, "Sometimes a cigar is just a cigar."

Michael

On 1/11/2024 at 1:35 PM, Michael Stuart Kelly said:

 

 

 

Meanwhile, all those deaths without meaning...

Bah!

Michael

Without meaning, yup. I don't know why it wasn't plain, ( it was, but why stop a war to weaken/regime-change Russia, with Ukraine doing the heavy work?) - that Putin was trying to force Kyiv into negotiations from the start--and that almost worked, until Boris and Biden talked Zel out of it.

He wanted to conquer all Ukraine, then to invade Europe, the experts said: all scaremongering b.s. to get the European backing.

Hardly-reported was the Istanbul meeting in which Zel was already agreeing to neutrality terms with the Russians.

Putin - the only "imperialist" in history with a tiny outnumbered army (to begin with) who sought negotiations only one month into the campaign.

Somebody has to say it: RFKjr

Volker nonsensically delivers the narrative, Ukraine's innocence and Putin's 'Empire building'.