Ukraine and Endless War for Profit

[Michael Stuart Kelly]

11 minutes ago, Peter said:

I do not think the U.S. will send any troops into Ukraine, even as advisors.

Peter,

Especially not if I, and people who think like me, can help it.

Michael

[Peter]

The USSR and America were nuclear armed when the U.S. started sending Green Berets and other special ops people into Viet Nam. Brant was there and probably has some advice and risk analysis about that. And does anyone remember or have you heard about the Cuban missile crisis? I think that was in 1962. My Mom stocked up on water. The dissolution of the Soviet Empire was such a good thing. But what took its place?

[Peter]

On 3/28/2022 at 3:02 PM, Michael Stuart Kelly said:

If China invades Taiwan, I'm all for war. And war to win, not this endless war for profit horseshit.

What’s next in horror movies, MeTV's Svengoolie?

From The Washington Examiner by Weifeng Zhong: Russia’s war against Ukraine has observers wondering whether Taiwan, a renegade province in Beijing’s eye, will be next. The only person who may know, Chinese President Xi Jinping, is quiet. But a more useful question is whether the West is ready for a Chinese invasion of Taiwan.

This question is about more than whether the United States and its allies would defend Taiwan. It’s about whether they have a long-term plan to deter China and help the island defend itself. NATO and Ukraine have been laying the groundwork for years to resist a Russian invasion, and now that’s on full display. In contrast, Western cooperation with Taiwan still has a long to-do list, from strategy and sanctions to intelligence and cybersecurity. The time to act is now.

Above all, Washington and its allies need to clarify their Taiwan strategy: whether and under what conditions they will defend the island. The U.S. policy on this has long been ambiguous, keeping our adversaries and allies guessing. But as I’ve explained, such ambiguity has fallen behind the times, and the West needs to take a clear and unequivocal stance to deter Beijing and reduce the uncertainties Taipei faces. NATO indicated it wouldn’t defend Ukraine, but that didn’t prevent it from helping the country put up a heroic fight against Russia.

If defending Taiwan in some capacity is a clear "no," an unwise but nonetheless unambiguous stance, the next question is how willing allied democracies are to sanction China effectively. Many observers have been impressed with the economic pressures Washington, its allies, and even the private sector have put on the Kremlin. But that’s not as difficult a decision as would be faced with Taiwan. Russia’s economy is a fraction of that of China, a top trading partner of over 120 countries and regions. Even with Ukraine, Europe’s reliance on Russian energy has made the sanctions deeply divisive. . . .

[Michael Stuart Kelly]

On 4/11/2022 at 2:51 PM, Michael Stuart Kelly said:

Former AG Barr will not fare so well, himself.

. . .

Steve [Bannon] openly calls Barr a liar....

If anyone wants to see just one of the items Bill Barr will have to respond for, the following article at American Greatness by Julie Kelly lays it out in scathing terms (scathing because of the facts, not because of the rhetoric).

The article is about the embarrassment the Justice Department suffered in court over the botched false flag kidnapping of Michigan Governor Whitmer through FBI entrapment.

Questions Loom After Verdicts in Whitmer ‘Kidnapping’ Trial
What did top government officials know and when did they know it? 

Questions Loom After Verdicts in Whitmer ‘Kidnapping’ Trial › American Greatness

AMGREATNESS.COM

---

It’s impossible to overstate the significance of the verdicts handed down last week for four men charged with conspiring to kidnap Michigan Governor Gretchen Whitmer in 2020 and use a “weapon of...

From the article:

Quote

The Justice Department did not win a single conviction; two men walked free after 18 months in prison and two men remain behind bars as prosecutors prepare to re-try them after a hung jury could not agree on their guilt.

What the jury did agree on, however, is that the Federal Bureau of Investigation engaged in entrapment.

. . .

... key offcials described the case as one of the largest domestic terrorism investigations in recent history; undercover agents and informants operated out of multiple FBI field offices across the eastern half of the country. Sworn testimony during the trial and other court hearings confirm that the plan had the blessing of higher-ups in Washington, D.C. One FBI agent told the jury that the use of drones, airplanes, and other surveillance tools used to collect evidence against the defendants required a “multi-layer” approval process at the top.

. . .

Any inquiry should begin with former Attorney General William Barr.

On October 9, 2020, the day after Whitmer and presidential candidate Joe Biden lashed out at President Trump, blaming him for inciting the phony kidnapping scheme, Barr said through a spokeswoman that the defendants’ conduct was “abhorrent” and he was “totally supportive of the FBI’s investigation.” Barr’s office also said he hadn’t been briefed on the case until the week of the arrests.

. . .

Perhaps Barr deserves the benefit of the doubt, but FBI Director Christopher Wray is entitled to no such consideration. 

In 2019, without evidence, Wray’s FBI declared “white supremacist” domestic extremism a top national security threat and specifically warned of “assassination or kidnapping” attempts against elected officials. Three years later, however, the only plan to kidnap and/or assassinate a government leader has emerged from the FBI.

. . .

... 

what did Whitmer herself know? She made the most of the pretend plot against her, playing the role of the victim during a nonstop publicity tour before Election Day while accusing Trump of inciting “domestic terrorists” to abduct and assasinate her. But Whitmer knew what the FBI was up to; the FBI installed a pole camera and laser devices that generated 3-D maps around her vacation cottage, the scene of the would-be crime, according to one agent’s testimony.

This suggests Whitmer was aware of what was happening. 

. . .

... Republicans on the House Judiciary committee and Senator Ted Cruz (R-Texas) pledged to investigate the FBI-concocted  Whitmer operation. Let’s hope they finally fulfill that promise.

In addition to Ted Cruz in Congress, there are going to be some mighty fine legal minds in all relevant places in the government (and outside of the government), including the courts, looking into all of this.

As Steve Bannon keeps saying (as if to them), "Preserve your documents."

A legal and criminal shitstorm is coming for the perpetrators, including Bill Barr.

And this is just one case.

Michael

[anthony]

On 4/12/2022 at 7:47 PM, tmj said:

I sure hope the stories I've been seeing on the webs are false and propaganda, the ones that keep saying that Americans are controlling a lot of the operations on the ground. I want to believe that , but I'm not sure. I hope to hell that train station wasn't struck with a Ukrainian missile under fire control of an embedded force or advisor. I really really don't want that to be even close to trueish.

When the Narrative wished for and suspected sticks in unthinking heads, it's fixed permanently. No amount of contradicting facts and denials will change a thing. "That Kramatorsk station strike MUST have been a Russian atrocity!" (because they are atrocious, that's what they do.) The unpalatable converse is too much to take in.

I have little problem considering this, and perhaps some other suspicious atrocity reports, as false flags (vilely committed by the Gvt. and/or individual men upon their own people, for what?: propaganda gain) since I know there are scumbags on both sides.

Not even Ukraine citizens would dare speak out against dirty acts by Ukraine soldiers and their Gvt. they see and know of, or be branded traitors.

Kyiv has been certainly accidentally (on occasions, deliberately) killing Russian-Ukraine citizens for years in the forgoing conflicts. (about 6,000 in the Donbas- Wikipedia reported)

When you are not getting enough atrocities to shock the world into sympathy and compliance - manufacture a few. (Maybe there's been chemical gas, from one report - who can say yet for sure). Innuendo will suffice when evidence is short.

I can guess we will see no one properly investigating the source of that Kramatorsk missile attack; if the truth turned out unfavorably, it will get buried by the media, anyway. Such incidents will simply disappear from the mainstream and front pages as 'accepted truth', never to be questioned - as this one has already gone quiet. .

When President Zelensky can voice such a bare-faced lie as this, and not instantly be called "unlikely" or totally refuted by on the spot correspondents, eye witnesses and satellite imagery, you know how he has the western propaganda on a string:

"Tens of thousands have been killed in Mariupol".

(BBC, yesterday)

10,000, 20,000 - more? I will bet at most one to two thousand died - nearly all combatants, and maybe a few hundred civilians. Critical, because this civilian death deceit he's been promoting will push the softer, gullible westerners to get their governments involved in the war.

And funny enough, I could believe some of the denials by Moscow. Nobody can lie all of the time. Nobody is guilty, all of the time. And if you're already found guilty of stealing a sheep and are going to hang, what difference will stealing a few lambs make?

From SA's Business Day, today: "Putin said Kyiv has derailed peace talks by staging what he said were false claims of Russian war crimes".

Disingenuous? Not entirely. We've seen how enraged at those accusations he's been. Even a brute can show pride at being falsely accused.

That follows a few days ago, what Zelensky said: he maintained he could not conduct peace talks ¬because of¬ said "atrocities"...?

 

[Peter]

Austria's Chancellor Karl Nehammer said he went to Moscow to "look in President Putin's eyes and confront him with what I saw" in Ukraine, he told CNN Wednesday. Nehammer said he raised alleged Russian atrocities in Ukraine during a "tough" and unfriendly meeting Monday with Vladimir Putin -- the first Western sit-down with the Russian President since he launched his invasion of Ukraine in February. "This is not a friendly visit. I have just come from Ukraine and have seen with my own eyes the immeasurable suffering caused by the Russian war of aggression," Nehammer was quoted as saying in a statement issued by his office after the meeting outside Moscow. "I made the decision to go to Moscow, to look in President Putin's eyes and confront him with what I saw," the Chancellor said in an interview with CNN's Becky Anderson Wednesday.

[Michael Stuart Kelly]

Here is one of the reasons I stopped serving ads from Adsense on OL months ago.

I just got this email.

Quote

Important Notice: Update regarding Ukraine

Dear Publisher,

Due to the war in Ukraine, we will pause monetization of content that exploits, dismisses, or condones the war.

Please note, we have already been enforcing on claims related to the war in Ukraine when they violated existing policies (for instance, the Dangerous or Derogatory content policy prohibits monetizing content that incites violence or denies tragic events). This update is meant to clarify, and in some cases expand, our publisher guidance as it relates to this conflict.

This pause includes, but is not limited to, claims that imply victims are responsible for their own tragedy or similar instances of victim blaming, such as claims that Ukraine is committing genocide or deliberately attacking its own citizens.

Sincerely,
The Google AdSense Team

This is not just monetization. This censorship is happening all over Big Tech.

So let me ask you something.

If the mainstream narrative (the one leading to endless war for profit against Russia and Ukraine) is not failing, why does Big Tech feel the need to censor contrary views?

Shouldn't they be able to win an argument on logic and rhetoric without censorship? Hell, Google can even jigger search results without telling anyone and each Big Tech company has similar powers.

But now they need to censor. They need to censor.

They don't need to censor the people fighting in the invasion.

They need to censor YOU.

Think about it.

 

Google makes money from war.

Big Tech makes money from war.

I don't.

Do you?

Michael

[Michael Stuart Kelly]

Speaking of money, here's another reason for the propaganda push to get America involved in the Russia-Ukraine mess. The propagandists are trying to get Americans to think about that instead of inflation, which just hit a huge high (8.5%). Biden has come out and--in bald face splendor--said this inflation is Putin's fault.

But it ain't taking and a huge MAGA pushback is soon going to be taking power from elections (and, man, are they out in droves looking for cheating).

This is the Big Tech panic. If MAGA gets in this big, Big Tech is going to be dismantled (among other things). So they need a war for people to talk about, especially one they can make money from.

 

Here is what most American people really believe (if you hold stock in polls):

NARRATIVE FAIL: Only 6% of Americans Are Buying Joe Biden’s Talking Point that Russia Is To Blame for His Record Inflation

NARRATIVE FAIL: Only 6% of Americans Are Buying Joe Biden's Talking Point that Russia Is To Blame for His Record Inflation

WWW.THEGATEWAYPUNDIT.COM

---

Narrative fail — Nobody believes Dementia Joe. Only 6% of Americans believe the current record inflation is Russia’s fault. Only 6% Americans aren’t fooled by these radicals who are destroying their country. Via...

The next time you go to the gas pump or supermarket, you can thank Joe Biden--and, in fact, Bit Tech, not Putin, for the growing prices.

(Putin is a serious issue, but calling this what it is not will never do anything but help screw over and kill everyday people.)

But don't worry. That's only temporary. The cavalry is on its way...

Michael

 

EDIT: btw - Here is some more money to goose their gander.

All that money does not go to YOU. Guess who it goes to?

[anthony]

3 hours ago, Michael Stuart Kelly said:

Here is one of the reasons I stopped serving ads from Adsense on OL months ago.

I just got this email.

This is not just monetization. This censorship is happening all over Big Tech.

So let me ask you something.

If the mainstream narrative (the one leading to endless war for profit against Russia and Ukraine) is not failing, why does Big Tech feel the need to censor contrary views?

Shouldn't they be able to win an argument on logic and rhetoric without censorship? Hell, Google can even jigger search results without telling anyone and each Big Tech company has similar powers.

But now they need to censor. They need to censor.

They don't need to censor the people fighting in the invasion.

They need to censor YOU.

Think about it.

 

Google makes money from war.

Big Tech makes money from war.

I don't.

Do you?

Michael

The One and Only Global Narrative. (Efficiently practiced during the pandemic, fully operational now with war, on the lookout for any remaining dissent).

"That exploits, dismisses or condones the war". Yeah, been seeing a lot of those here.

That's quite something when OL gets pin-pointed for a stern warning from Uber Tech. Top marks Michael, for keeping up the resistance. I hope you keep running.

"It is your minds they want". Ayn Rand

[Michael Stuart Kelly]

For those who want some bad to be said about Putin, watch this video.

Calls for Russian Regime Change a Western Fantasy

Calls for Russian Regime Change a Western Fantasy

RUMBLE.COM

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Calls for Russian Regime Change a Western Fantasy

Rebekah Koffler is an expert I trust. She's an intelligence expert and pretty entrenched in the machine. MAGA-friendly, too. She's also done war games at the Pentagon about Putin.

She wrote this book (referral link): 

Putin's Playbook: Russia's Secret Plan to Defeat America

See her New York Post articles here and see what they say about Putin  : Rebekeh Loffler.

She gives a reality view of what is going on in Ukraine, not all this screaming for blood in the mainstream media and cheerleading for Ukraine (all to lead to endless war for profit).

Although people are now trying to gin up stories about chemical warfare so the starving endless war machine can eat (let's get to the war part soon, right USA?), there is a strong possibility that chemical warfare will happen for real with Putin. And it all comes down to idiots dealing with Putin and doing exactly the wrong thing at the right time. 

 

In fact, Biden could push this thing to a nuclear war--with the entry of China--and people are still playing word salad games and fake news about it here in the West.

How is Putin, or China for that matter, going to take anything Biden says seriously when he has been on the take with Russia and China for decades and his son has been smoking crack and doing high-priced hookers in front of the whole world on their dime?

That means a strong part of this context is the money, not just war jingoism. Bannon always says don't just look at the assassin. Look at the one who is paying for the assassin's bullet. In other words, China.

Both Russia and China are problems in Ukraine, serious world-threatening problems, and so is Ukraine for that matter--not the cartoon villain image of Putin put out by the fake news media and predator class.

Even Koffler calls the people who do that "little boys."

Michael

[ThatGuy]

3 hours ago, Michael Stuart Kelly said:

Here is one of the reasons I stopped serving ads from Adsense on OL months ago.

I just got this email.

This is not just monetization. This censorship is happening all over Big Tech.

So let me ask you something.

If the mainstream narrative (the one leading to endless war for profit against Russia and Ukraine) is not failing, why does Big Tech feel the need to censor contrary views?

Shouldn't they be able to win an argument on logic and rhetoric without censorship? Hell, Google can even jigger search results without telling anyone and each Big Tech company has similar powers.

But now they need to censor. They need to censor.

They don't need to censor the people fighting in the invasion.

They need to censor YOU.

Think about it.

 

Google makes money from war.

Big Tech makes money from war.

I don't.

Do you?

Michael

"Ask yourself why totalitarian dictatorships find it necessary to pour money and effort into propaganda for their own helpless, chained, gagged slaves, who have no means of protest or defense. The answer is that even the humblest peasant or the lowest savage would rise in blind rebellion, were he to realize that he is being immolated, not to some incomprehensible 'noble purpose' but to plain, naked human evil."

Ayn Rand; Nathaniel Branden. The virtue of selfishness: a new concept of egoism (Kindle Locations 1305-1307). Signet/New American Library.

[edit: posted in response to wrong comment, but hey, still works...]

[Michael Stuart Kelly]

Big Tech tried to intimidate Rumble for allowing pro-Russians to make channels and post videos and Rumble told them to go take a long walk off a short pier.

 

That's what freedom of speech looks like.

Tim Pool discusses this, but in addition, his video is like a bath in pure reason applied to doing the news. I don't agree with Tim on several things, but I agree 100% with the way he does it. From the sheer size of his growth, it looks like the general public agrees with me.

RUMBLE SMACKS DOWN CORPORATE PRESS OVER CENSORSHIP DEMANDS, CNN FAILURE INSANELY WORSE THAN WE KNE..

Rumble SMACKS DOWN Corporate Press Over Censorship Demands, CNN Failure INSANELY WORSE Than We Kne..

WWW.BITCHUTE.COM

---

Watch The FULL Podcast Show - http://Youtube.com/TimcastIRL Become a Member - https://timcast.com/join-us/ https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cCYxN6ENtmQ Tune in randomly...

Incidentally, CNN+ can't get more than 10,000 active people at a time on its platform. Tim gloats over this since his own audience dwarfs that number.

Although not part of this video, Chris Wallace is having a cow over the CNN+ failure. He was their big draw and now he's become a laughing stock.

Couldn't happen to a more deserving person.

 

Michael

[ThatGuy]

2 hours ago, Michael Stuart Kelly said:

Speaking of money, here's another reason for the propaganda push to get America involved in the Russia-Ukraine mess. The propagandists are trying to get Americans to think about that instead of inflation, which just hit a huge high (8.5%). Biden has come out and--in bald face splendor--said this inflation is Putin's fault.

"Ask yourself why totalitarian dictatorships find it necessary to pour money and effort into propaganda for their own helpless, chained, gagged slaves, who have no means of protest or defense. The answer is that even the humblest peasant or the lowest savage would rise in blind rebellion, were he to realize that he is being immolated, not to some incomprehensible 'noble purpose' but to plain, naked human evil."

Ayn Rand; Nathaniel Branden. The virtue of selfishness: a new concept of egoism (Kindle Locations 1305-1307). Signet/New American Library.

[anthony]

7 hours ago, Peter said:

Austria's Chancellor Karl Nehammer said he went to Moscow to "look in President Putin's eyes and confront him with what I saw" in Ukraine, he told CNN Wednesday. Nehammer said he raised alleged Russian atrocities in Ukraine during a "tough" and unfriendly meeting Monday with Vladimir Putin -- the first Western sit-down with the Russian President since he launched his invasion of Ukraine in February. "This is not a friendly visit. I have just come from Ukraine and have seen with my own eyes the immeasurable suffering caused by the Russian war of aggression," Nehammer was quoted as saying in a statement issued by his office after the meeting outside Moscow. "I made the decision to go to Moscow, to look in President Putin's eyes and confront him with what I saw," the Chancellor said in an interview with CNN's Becky Anderson Wednesday.

Tell me another, people are suffering I already know. So, do rational people want their pain to continue, and avenge blood spilled with more blood? Then, to commit to full out, probably, international warfare?

Because that satisfies some atavistic, self-indulgent need that humans have for tribal punishment on the wrong-doer?

Or do we press immediately to start an end for this war: for strong diplomatic intervention, to bring leverage on both Russia and Ukraine to start dealing for a truce? Apparently, Putin is after an East Ukraine "corridor", Luhansk, Donetsk, Mariupol, to the sea. Clearly, not after taking and occupying all Ukraine! How much he gets, under what conditions, could be negotiable.

Unless - Kyiv wishes to forcibly hold those 'republics' against the will of most residents there, and never an end. Zelensky might see the senselessness in trying that.

That would mean - NOT supporting Ukraine any further, beyond the humanitarian aid naturally. Zelensky must be told he mustn't think, despite the bombastic war rhetoric from politicians, media etc., the West will sacrifice their soldiers in an extended, unpredictable war on Ukraine's behalf.

It's ¬reality¬ that one has to deal with, the war is real, it is too late to be moaning about the (Chancellor's) "war of aggression". .

(You know Objectivist "sacrifice": giving up a greater value for a lesser or non-value?)

 

[Peter]

3 hours ago, anthony said:

Or do we press immediately to start an end for this war: for strong diplomatic intervention, to bring leverage on both Russia and Ukraine to start dealing for a truce?

Some time ago, I published a thread section about ‘just war theory” by George H. Smith. It can be found on OL with a quick search, and it is worth reading.

 Is our military and monetary aid to Ukraine “just?” I think so.

[Michael Stuart Kelly]

On 4/12/2022 at 6:36 PM, Michael Stuart Kelly said:

If anyone wants to see just one of the items Bill Barr will have to respond for...

Emerald Robinson just put out an article that expresses what a huge chunk of MAGA people hold about Bill Barr.

It's one hell of an article if you go through it and watch the short video clips along the way.

Essentially, Barr is an asshole and suck-up to the power structure with a veneer of legalese to make him sound reasonable. I, myself, certainly got taken in by him at the time.

The Lasting Shame of Bill Barr

The Lasting Shame of Bill Barr

EMERALDDB3.SUBSTACK.COM

---

The man who stopped the second Trump Administration is rewriting history

Here's her summary near the end to get a gist.

Quote

So let’s summarize the recent career of Bill Barr: he stopped U.S. attorneys from investigating voter fraud in 2020; he failed to keep the world’s most infamous pedophile alive for trial; he failed to investigate or authenticate Hunter Biden’s laptop; and he was in charge of the DOJ when the FBI created the Governor Whitmer kidnapping hoax during the Trump Administration. All of these failures go in one direction too: they aided Democrats in defeating a very popular sitting President in favor of a senile man who funnels shady business deals with Chinese communists through his crack-head son.

That’s what happens when you hire leftovers from the George W. Bush Administration. They talk a good game while they sell you down the river.

She ends with Trump, who said Barr was afraid of being impeached, so he cowered. Trump basically called his former chief law enforcement agent a pussy.

What's worse, Barr is.

 

If you have the time, read the article. It will give you a simple but accurate filter to easily process all the garbage coming out of the fake news media.

Michael

[Michael Stuart Kelly]

6 hours ago, Peter said:

 Is our military and monetary aid to Ukraine “just?” I think so.

Peter,

One of Steve Bannon's harshest criticisms of this Ukraine and Russia mess is that the West, including the USA, promised Zelenski the moon to get him to antagonize Putin. They would have his back. Ukraine would get into NATO. They would send boatloads of moolah and ordinance. They would help rebuild anything broken. And on and on.

Once Zelenski got Putin pissed, lathered up and the invasion started, all the NATO people, the USA, everybody looked around and said, "Who me? Ah... well it's complicated..." 

 

Zelenski countered by going all over the media trying to shame the West. He's a pretty good actor, so he does his job well and he's been able to get a lot of air time. Steve has read ALL of Zelenksi's speeches and that's one of the inputs informing his opinion.

 

Now, believe it or not, the aid you are referring to is not meant to help Zelenski win against Putin. The people sending that aid have no illusions on that score.

They are sending that aid to make money from the different governments. They want Zelenski to blow shit up so they can send more, but not blow enough shit up to cause a nuclear war. And they want Zelenski to do it, and keep doing it, and keep doing it, and keep doing it for a long, long, long time. That means they don't want him to win. They just want him to keep their gravy train chugging along.

They say differently in their rah rah rah sis boom bah propaganda, but the gravy train is the underlying truth. I base this on looking at what people say and comparing it to what they do. It's easy to see when one looks.

So in that sense, I disagree about "just." I don't believe aiding corrupt politicians grift millions and millions of dollars is "just" at all, especially when the gift involves innocent dead people who did not need to die.

Michael

[anthony]

17 hours ago, Peter said:

 about ‘just war theory” by George H. Smith.

Not very relevant. "Just ¬secession¬ theory" would be on point.

Can a government legally and militarily restrain a part of its population in a region from its self-determination, after electing for break away? I think this is the question.

It doesn't allow separation, it may or will cause a civil war. They ¬must¬ know the likelihood before initiating force.

Transfer to Ukraine and Kyiv's 8-year conflict with the East : creating conditions for an eventual invasion**. That was a distinct ¬evasion¬ by Kyiv, to my mind.

1965, the UK wouldn't allow Southern Rhodesia its independence; the then PM declared "UDI", Unilateral Declaration of Independence, so becoming Rhodesia. Not much Whitehall could do to prevent that.

**and presented on a plate to Putin the self-justification and excuse he needed for his invasion, little doubt, along with the excuse of NATO's sly assurances to Ukraine for its future membership. .

[anthony]

MSK, I think your above is close to the truth from my reading. Only from the arms manufacturers pov: they get to try out and advertise their latest wares on real, live battlegrounds. Nothing like a hot war, for testing, (been short of those for a while).

"Look how our shoulder fired missiles take out tanks! A girl can "fire-and-forget!"

And all displayed on Prime Time. (African dictator: Man, get me a dozen of those ).

The competition is fierce in that market, between countries and corporations: the Jaguar, at $200K a pop and other makes, reportedly have destroyed +/- 600 Russian tanks, and I guess are ending the dominance of tank warfare in cities. (Anyone spare a little sympathy for the tank crews? all I hope is they're rendered instantly unconscious from concussion before the intense heat gets them).

One thousand of those fired adds to a fat profit, and of course their stock must be replenished, given a nicely prolonged war.

Until recently, the 'arms dealer' was despised as the lowest of the low human beings (by the old, anti-war Left in particular), now war mongers of all persuasions are extolling their products.

[Peter]

Michael wrote, “Once Zelenski got Putin pissed, lathered up and the invasion started, all the NATO people, the USA, everybody looked around and said, "Who me? Ah... well it's complicated..." 

Country U: We are a sovereign nation and we will make our own decisions. Other Country R: Don’t piss me off! Country U: Poo on you. Other Country R: Then we will kill you.

Aaah. I see your reasoning. Making someone mad is the same as killing a someone?

And Slovenia, Finland, and Sweden have gone a step further and are seriously trying to join NATO.

Other Country R: We will move nukes into the Baltics. Of course. What else could Putin do?

Now from a law enforcement, objectivist, or personal sense . . .  

[Michael Stuart Kelly]

42 minutes ago, Peter said:

Aaah. I see your reasoning. Making someone mad is the same as killing a someone?

Peter,

Why do you keep doing that?

I never said that nor do I think it.

Let me use an analogy that comes from old.

Do not poke a bear with a short stick.

That means if you want to poke a bear, be aware that the bear will attack you. (So use a longer stick or don't poke the bear.) In Objectivism terms, this is called Law of Identity.

In the reasoning you just attributed to me, that means "the same thing as killing someone." (Your words.)

How on earth does that make any sense?

Michael

[william.scherk]

39 minutes ago, Peter said:

And Slovenia, Finland, and Sweden have gone a step further and are seriously trying to join NATO.

Slovenia joined NATO in 2004. 

NATO - Topic: Member countries

WWW.NATO.INT

---

At present, NATO has 30 members. In 1949, there were 12 founding members of the Alliance: Belgium, Canada, Denmark, France, Iceland, Italy, Luxembourg, the Netherlands, Norway, Portugal, the United...

Sweden will make a final decision on joining NATO very soon, according to this Guardian article: Finland and Sweden take major step towards joining Nato

Quote

[...]

Finland and Sweden took a major step towards joining Nato on Wednesday, after their prime ministers said Russia’s invasion of Ukraine had changed Europe’s “whole security landscape” and “dramatically shaped mindsets” in the Nordic countries.

The Finnish prime minister, Sanna Marin, said on Wednesday that her country, which shares a 1,300km (810-mile) border with Russia, would decide whether to apply to join the alliance “quite fast, in weeks not months”, despite the risk of infuriating Moscow.

Russia has repeatedly warned both countries against joining Nato and would see any such move as a provocation. The Kremlin spokesperson, Dmitry Peskov, has said that if Finland and Sweden entered Nato, Russia would have to “rebalance the situation” with its own measures.

Speaking alongside her Swedish counterpart, Magdalena Andersson, at a joint press conference in Stockholm, Marin said Finland had to be “prepared for all kinds of actions from Russia” and that “everything had changed” when Moscow attacked Ukraine.

“The difference between being a partner and a member is very clear, and will remain so. There is no other way to have security guarantees than under Nato’s deterrence and common defence as guaranteed by the alliance’s article 5,” she said.

 

[Peter]

2 hours ago, Peter said:

“Once Zelenski got Putin pissed, lathered up and the invasion started,

You wrote the above. It seems to "me" to mean the actions are equal or at least justifiable because Zelenski  . . . poked the bear. And just saying "the invasion started" adds honey to the Pooh pot. Bye for now. Get back I say you giant bear!  edit. The Russian Bear not Michael. 

[Michael Stuart Kelly]

5 minutes ago, Peter said:

You wrote the above.

Peter,

I did.

Putin is a bully. What happens when you goad bullies? 

They come after you.

Law of Identity.

How much more Objectivish do you need?

 

 

Zelenski is not stupid. He would not goad a bully because he is stupid and believes there will be no reaction. He definitely would not have goaded Putin--a nuclear power--without the West saying they had his back. So when his goading reached a certain limit and the bully finally came after him (aided by Biden's cowardly manner of cutting out of Afghanistan), he suddenly found out to his horror the West did not have his back.

Now the West wants to pretend they have his back as they get him to agree to the slaughter of countless of his own citizens over years so they all can make money on a gravy train that doesn't stop going choo choo.

That worked in Korea. It worked in Vietnam. It worked in Iraq. It worked in Afghanistan. It is still working in several places where the US and "global partners" are bombing the shit out of local people with drones.

It will probably not work in Ukraine anymore, despite all the mainstream press hollering. People are fed up with this damn endless war machine. I, for one, say, "Fuck them."

So long as I am getting vulgar, Trump knows how to deal with bullies. We would not be here with Trump. Biden, on the other hand, is a pussy. A contemptible conman, liar and pussy who has no respect for human life.

Zelenski backed the wrong horse in this case. He was an idiot for believing the predator class's promises.

Guess what predators do? They eat prey. Zelinski is discovering he is prey, not a fellow predator.

 

There's another aspect. The World Economic Forum is Nazi at root. Ukraine is full of Nazis--real ones. Zelenski thought that there would be enough solidarity to ensure he would get a seat at the table with fellow predators. And he discovered that the WEF looks at him as prey, too.

All those decades of embezzlement from different governments and scams running out of Ukraine... I mean, Ukraine was the stomping ground for the predator class's prey. Did Zelinski really think they would change their opinion, especially if they believed nukes would come after their own asses in a real fight?

Hell no.

So chomp time it is. Anyone can see their attitude in their deeds. And what is their attitude?

Why be worried about a small thing like one's word to a prey too big for his britches when there is all that money on the table?

Michael

[anthony]

10 hours ago, Michael Stuart Kelly said:

Peter,

One of Steve Bannon's harshest criticisms of this Ukraine and Russia mess is that the West, including the USA, promised Zelenski the moon to get him to antagonize Putin. They would have his back. Ukraine would get into NATO. They would send boatloads of moolah and ordinance. They would help rebuild anything broken. And on and on.

Once Zelenski got Putin pissed, lathered up and the invasion started, all the NATO people, the USA, everybody looked around and said, "Who me? Ah... well it's complicated..." 

 

Michael

The final act in the evasive sequence must carry the predominant blame. Putin still did NOT 'have to do' what he did.

Aided, empowered, enabled by many hundreds of evasions by many others, before that, that have to be judged, also, for their denial of reality, humanity and otherwise.

Those enabling, morally compromised evaders have little moral rectitude to point fingers at Putin.