Coronavirus

[Peter]

Clowns to the left of me, jokers to the right . . .  I like Rand Paul’s line of thinking about many issues, and his line of thinking quoted below, also applies to the deniers who have maintained that Covid-19 is a hoax.  You should follow your doctor’s suggestions and diagnoses. And notice Rand suggests this a Corona Crisis.

Have any of you kooks, (no scratch that and change it to deniers of the truth,) rethought that issue? Anyone dare to confess about the reality of Covid-19 and how wrong they were about vaccines that even the Trump family took? Is the Coronavirus is hoax? If you think THAT you are not an objectivist, or is “the Coronavirus hoax lie” past us? Confess and repent! Go back and edit what you said on OL so no one can observe your irrationality! Oh, and please stop using “alt news sources” as facts.  Save your soul. Saint Peter

Doctor Rand Paul wrote: A Democrat politician famously said, “never let a crisis go to waste.”  Boy, did this pandemic really see them put their shoulder into that old axiom. Throughout the COVID crisis, these radicals have embraced theatrics, abandoned science, and the longer it goes on, the more they double down. The newest power grab comes in the form of an alleged “Vaccine Passport” which would determine whether or not you’re “ALLOWED” to engage in your everyday life.  Want to go to the store? Show your vaccine card. Want to go to a restaurant or concert? Did you tell the government what vaccines you’ve had? Want to travel? VACCINE PAPERS PLEASE. This is the slippery slope I warned about and it’s exactly what I’m fighting to defeat in Washington. Will you chip in to join the fight today?

[Peter]

Covid-19 booster shot likely needed within 12 months, Pfizer's CEO says (msn.com)

Those Chinese Communist rats are going to cost the world money, time, and needle sticks. However, it is an accomplishment for Bio Warfare but is that in any way good? They have added another disease to inflict on humanity, like measles, chicken pox, scarlet fever, etc. Next they may unleash a disease that doesn't affect Asians. Think of them as the next "Hitler style Nazis."   

edit. I just had another "conspiracy thought." The Chinese Communists will have the next, deadlier pandemic start in Africa, Europe, or the America's.    

[Peter]

The COVID-19 pandemic in Taiwan is part of the worldwide pandemic of coronavirus disease 2019 caused by severe acute respiratory syndrome coronavirus 2. The pandemic has had a smaller impact in Taiwan than in most other industrialized countries, with a total of eleven deaths as of 11 April 2021, a rate of 0.042 deaths per 100,000 people. The number of active cases peaked on 6 April 2020 at 307 cases, the overwhelming majority of which were imported. end quote

from Bing. Cases and deaths in Taiwan.

Confirmed

1,068

+1

Deaths

11

Recovered

1,031

[tmj]

The virus isn’t a hoax, the explanation that it jumped species and was as contagious  in humans  as it is reported probably is, the need to quarantine healthy people probably is ,the need for officials to discourage and make unavailable treatments/chemicals whose use has been proven safe and potentially affective probably is, the need for mass inculcation during a pandemic probably is , the need to discourage mask use and then the need to encourage multi-layer masks probably is , the idea that time spent in large buildings with large groups is an acceptable risk while time spent in smaller buildings with smaller groups isn’t probably is , the need for all segments of the population to employ the same level of safety measures as opposed to focusing on those easily identifiable as at most risk probably is , the idea that viral spread can be stopped probably is.

Did you order the code red?!

[ThatGuy]

5 hours ago, tmj said:

The virus isn’t a hoax, the explanation that it jumped species and was as contagious  in humans  as it is reported probably is, the need to quarantine healthy people probably is ,the need for officials to discourage and make unavailable treatments/chemicals whose use has been proven safe and potentially affective probably is, the need for mass inculcation during a pandemic probably is , the need to discourage mask use and then the need to encourage multi-layer masks probably is , the idea that time spent in large buildings with large groups is an acceptable risk while time spent in smaller buildings with smaller groups isn’t probably is , the need for all segments of the population to employ the same level of safety measures as opposed to focusing on those easily identifiable as at most risk probably is , the idea that viral spread can be stopped probably is.

Did you order the code red?!

True, but don't hold your breath... That's been explained many times before, only to be ignored just as many times so that one can continue to mock the strawman version.

[Mark]

Taylor Hudak at The Last American Vagabond published a great interview with Michael Yeadon on April 11th.   You can watch all of it, 51 minutes, here, but to make it more watchable I abridged it to 29 minutes here.

This video, especially the abridged version, may be the best propaganda vehicle yet to convince your stubborn friends that there is malign intent behind the vaccination campaign.

 

[Peter]

More than a lollypop will be your reward if you get vaccinated. Peter

Here’s a list of free stuff you can get with your COVID-19 vaccine card by Dennis Lee Thu, April 15, 2021, 11:38 AM

Samuel Adams Good ol’ Sam Adams set up a hashtag, #ShotForSam, where the first 10,000 people on Instagram or Twitter who posted evidence of vaccination (like a band-aid covered arm or vaccine card) will be awarded $7 through Cash App. You’ve got to tag the tweet or photo with that hashtag in order to qualify. That should be enough to get you a cold one, so, cheers.

Nathan’s Famous Sorry, world, this is only for the Coney Island location, but if you come into Nathan’s Famous on the day of your second vaccination with your card, you can get a free hot dog. Hot dogs rule.

Krispy Kreme You don’t live in New York? Well, that’s okay, because how about a doughnut? If you bring your vaccination card to any location you can get a free doughnut, one per day, either in-store or in the drive-thru. Doctors aren’t too happy about this one, though.

Drop Technologies Drop is a service that lets you earn rewards for shopping through its app. Post a selfie with the hashtag #DropCovid and @joindrop on Instagram, and you’ll get a credit of $50.

Office Depot and Staples Okay, no food here. But this is still useful. Both chains will allow you to laminate your cards for free so you don’t get mustard all over them when you redeem your free hot dog. For Office Depot and Office Max, you can use the coupon 52516714 through July 25. For Staples, use code 81540 until May 1. The CDC suggests you take a photo of your card for a backup too. I’m also hearing that a plastic sleeve for your vaccination card might also be a good idea in case you need to, say, update the original card with a booster stamp later

[Peter]

In Michael’s state of Illinois, 23,920 people have died of Covid- 19. In the U.S. over a half a million people have died. I think because the disease is modern it will be thought of more often in the centuries to come, though it is way less bad that past plagues.  Peter

From Bing. Vaccine doses administered worldwide 860,454,488 Confirmed cases worldwide 139,645,558 +1,304,638  Active cases 57,109,629 +529,181 Fatal cases 2,996,305 +21,475

United States We have had 31 million cases in the U.S. and 571, 464 Americans have died. 198,317,040 Fully vaccinated 23.47% Received at least one dose 37.62%

Total confirmed cases 31,764,754 +82,708 Active cases Fatal cases 571,464 +933

Illinois Total cases 1,299,782 Fatal 23,920

 

[Peter]

I was just thinking about how much I have enjoyed corresponding on Objectivist Living for over ten years. It's part of my life. But what if Michael and the Kelly family come down with Covid- 19? What would happen? Would OL close down. temporarily or permanently? I urge everyone to advice Michael to shelter in place and get the best vaccinations for himself and his family. Urging him to stay safe is the objective and benevolent thing to do. Peter   

[ThatGuy]

"Achieving life is not the equivalent of avoiding death. Joy is not the absence of pain."

"You seek escape from pain. We seek the achievement of happiness. You exist for the sake of avoiding punishment. We exist for the sake of earning rewards. Threats will not make us function; fear is not our incentive. It is not death that we wish to avoid, but life that we wish to live. You, who have lost the concept of the difference, you who claim that fear and joy are incentives of equal power—and secretly add that fear is the more 'practical'”—you do not wish to live, and only fear of death still holds you to the existence you have damned."

-from "Galt's Speech", Atlas Shrugged

[Michael Stuart Kelly]

3 hours ago, Peter said:

But what if Michael and the Kelly family come down with Covid- 19?

Peter,

I appreciate your personal concern. I feel the same about you and yours. With great warmth.

As to my health, I live in a place where there is plenty of access to COVID-19 medicines. (To be fair, I am merely looking at the local medical and even government structures--which are many and well organized--and making assumptions. I probably should grease a few wheels to make sure, but who has time for that?  )

As this virus on its own is no longer as deadly as it was in the beginning, and the modern medicines make it about as deadly as a common flu, if that. I see no reason to get the vaccine.

You may not know this, but I live with a kid, my stepson, who was most likely damaged forever by vaccines. You will not read his story in the mainstream culture since the mainstream culture these days runs on censorship, but I live with the reality of his story every day.

I know many people who live that same story. Kat knows many more than I do since she is always going to autism conferences and so on. 

I have suffered harsh criticism and ridicule for disagreeing with the party line on vaccines. (I believe some are good like measles, etc., but I don't trust the modern ones for a large variety of reasons, one of them being, with very few exceptions, the companies that manufacture vaccines and make gobs of money doing that can't be sued). I live one reality and mainstream culture keeps telling me that what I live with does not exist.

Who do you think I am going to believe? Hmmmmm?...  

So I don't trust the oligarchy. Nor its media outlets, stats, technical information, nothing. For me, when I need solid info, I seek corroboration before I believe anything. I will never change that way of thinking. Not in today's world.

Sorry. I know these are scary times, but re vaccines, I intend to use my own independent mind to the best of my ability to identify, evaluate, and think to guide my actions. I have lots of study and experience behind me, too.

You made a different choice than I would. I respect your independent choice. I insist on mine.

I don't control whether the virus is weakened or deadly, nor whether the vaccines work or are lethal time bombs. These things have their own nature irrespective of what I say or do about them. That nature will not change just because I want it to. I can only control what I do about myself (and my family) based on the best information I can get and trust. 

That's what you did. That's what I am doing.

The rest is out of our hands.

We will have to wait and see what happens to have certainty.

Meanwhile, here on OL I present the best knowledge I can as do you. We talk because when something is scary, people talk about it. That's why there is plenty of information on this thread.

At least people reading it are getting a good overview (mostly at the layman level) from intelligent people so they can make their own choice of what to do by weighing what they read (and consume) and coming to their own independent conclusions.

As to making it all go away, I have no magic bullet nor will I, personally, insist others have one. We all have to choose based on lack of certainty right now--or choose to let others choose for us and try to fudge that into a feeling of certainty. If OL is one thing, it is not about that last.

So the best I can do right now is hope all of this ends well for all of us. You. Me. All of us.

That is my deepest wish.

Michael

[Brant Gaede]

10 hours ago, Peter said:

In Michael’s state of Illinois, 23,920 people have died of Covid- 19. In the U.S. over a half a million people have died. I think because the disease is modern it will be thought of more often in the centuries to come, though it is way less bad that past plagues.  Peter

From Bing. Vaccine doses administered worldwide 860,454,488 Confirmed cases worldwide 139,645,558 +1,304,638  Active cases 57,109,629 +529,181 Fatal cases 2,996,305 +21,475

United States We have had 31 million cases in the U.S. and 571, 464 Americans have died. 198,317,040 Fully vaccinated 23.47% Received at least one dose 37.62%

Total confirmed cases 31,764,754 +82,708 Active cases Fatal cases 571,464 +933

Illinois Total cases 1,299,782 Fatal 23,920

 

The actual death data for this virus is corrupted by the CDC compilation on its way to be an historical "fact."

--Brant

[Ellen Stuttle]

On 4/15/2021 at 12:59 AM, Peter said:

I listen to what my doctor, the VA, and mainstream medical articles tell me. I sometimes look at articles that disagree with their conclusions but I rarely if ever, read Alt science conspiracy theories. It is a matter of Epistemology and the Scientific Method. Peter

 

On 4/15/2021 at 11:41 AM, Ellen Stuttle said:

It is a matter of being an idiot.

Your doctor likely just trusts what medical authorities tell him or her, like lots of doctors do.  I don’t know what’s going on with the VA.  Mainstream medical journalism has gotten to be in as bad a state as mainstream climatology.

Ellen

 

On 4/15/2021 at 12:21 PM, Peter said:

How do you "know" this? [the part about his doctor] Is it from something you read? If so show everyone your medical and researchers degrees to "prove" how right you are about  . .  . everything. To call someone an idiot for taking a doctors advice is not objective and I am not just talking about tact.

Peter,

What I'm calling you an idiot about is your accepting standard sources without strenuous investigating even though you have to know that there's lots of questioning being raised - and then touting your self-imposed benightedness as "a matter of Epistemology and the Scientific Method."

—

Specifically regarding your doctor, notice that I said "likely" not "certainly."

I get the "likely" estimate from two factors.

One is experience.  I've found that medical practitioners tend to be herd conformists about therapeutic fashions.  I've also found that if you push doctors with questions about why they prescribe this or that, they'll often acknowledge that they're accepting the say-so of some supposedly authoritative medical source or other (for instance, Johns Hopkins, Harvard, JAMA, New England Journal of Medicine).

The second factor is your not mentioning any strong cautions, warnings, advisements about risk factors conveyed by your doctor.

Ellen

PS: I hope you'll be ok and not suffer long-term ill effects.  I also hope that you'll do some really serious research before you go getting the 12-month booster that's now being talked about.

[Peter]

8 hours ago, Michael Stuart Kelly said:

So the best I can do right now is hope all of this ends well for all of us. You. Me. All of us.

That is my deepest wish.

Michael

Well said, Michael.

[Peter]

24 minutes ago, Ellen Stuttle said:

PS: I hope you'll be ok and not suffer long-term ill effects.  I also hope that you'll do some really serious research before you go getting the 12-month booster that's now being talked about.

That is giving me "pause."

I speculated that the Chinese may introduce a new strain that will hit us from somewhere outside of China and be more deadly. In the next post I showed the infection and death rates in Free China, also known as Taiwan. It is low. Is it possible the Chinese have already unleashed a pro Asian, anti the rest of the world strain, not directly from a wild animal but from a bio warfare lab? Peter     

edit. I just wanted to add that no one trusts China's Coronavirus statistics but we can trust Taiwan's. Therefor China's low number of deaths may not be too "wildly low." The virus was / may be  meant to weaken non Asian societies. 

[caroljane]

49 minutes ago, Peter said:

 

It is low. Is it possible the Chinese have already unleashed a pro Asian, anti the rest of the world strain, not directly from a wild animal but from a bio warfare lab? 

 Is it possible that Asians are so biologically different from the rest of the world that such a scheme would work?

And what about the, uh..you know, mixed race people...

Aw hell, whycan't we just come out and say halfbreed like we used to , in the good old days when we had some freedom of speech?  When to be free, white and 21 was our birthright by natural law?

[tmj]

I wouldn’t worry , Fauci will fix it .

Just get that damned shot .

The question would be if you need a future blood transfusion, do you need to stipulate the amount of the donor’s Asia ness?

[Peter]

28 minutes ago, caroljane said:

Is it possible that Asians are so biologically different from the rest of the world that such a scheme would work?

 

Sickle cell anemia and a lot of other "illnesses" adversely affect human variants. Of course we are still the big tent "human race" but, we are different in many ways.  Let’s get to the nitty gritty. As I recently admitted I only remember some of Anthropology from college and the discussion about the Human Races. The issue of what defines the black, white, or yellow races (Negroid, Caucasoid, or Mongoloid) is fairly objective: DNA and characteristics. One drop of blood or one racial characteristic does not classify a person as one thing or the other. This is important in the studies of anthropology, genealogy, genetics, (and assigning classifications on driver’s licenses, joke)

From an old, NOT PC thread focused on the racial divide in America, I wrote: My college anthropology professor’s name was Dr. Laid and he had a keen interest in the genetic “closeness” and study of Homo Neanderthalus and Homo Sapiens Sapiens. Unfortunately, he contracted some disease while on a dig, and died. One day we talked about the issue of racial classifications in Louisiana before the 70’s when one drop of Negro blood could relegate a person to second class citizenry. He maintained that three of four racial characteristics should be required to objectively classify a person as “belonging” to a certain race. Otherwise racial classifications should be up to the individual, if they wish to classify themselves as any particular thing.

If my memory serves me, in the case of Negroes those classifying characteristics would be: 1) Dark skin 2) Kinky hair 3) Thicker “Negro” lips 4) And a “Tropical nose.”

Now, as most educated people know, Anwar Sadat, who had a dark skin, looked like most ancient Egyptians (and was even played by a black man on a television biography,) yet he had all of the other racial characteristics of the subgroup “Arabic.” His dark skin did not make him a Negro. The original Aryans were from the north of India. Darker skinned people from Bombay are not Negroes. In fact Indians are classified as an Asian subgroup of the Caucasoid race. Some Scotch people with red hair which could be described as kinky, are not Negroes. Many people of many races have “thicker” lips but are not Negroes. And most people who evolved at the equator have a tropical nose. Polynesians, and Malaysians are not Negroes though there are people of mixed ancestry.

It is interesting that racially minded people in the Southern United States think that a person with a tropical nose, or dark skin, etc., must be Negroid. This is erroneous thinking and too imprecise and irrelevant in a personal sense to objectivists.

Anthropologists and other scientists discuss three racial groups, so I cannot agree that, “Non-African societies are just Africans that moved north.” Nor are Asian societies just Africans that moved north. There have been changes in DNA. Those changes are called “clines.” I don’t like the terms “yellow” and “red skin” and even “black” is not always very descriptive, though I enjoy saying, “you might just be a redneck.” I think the Football announcers are going to say the team name Washington instead of The Redskins, and that is fine with me.

Each race has certain characteristics but of course there are moderately “mixed raced” humans too. I agree we all originated from an original, mostly common DNA pool, and non-Africans diverged from Africans 100,000 years ago. That is not controversial.

It is necessary for Science to differentiate between the races for the sake of knowledge and also for Medicine. The races are not the same medically. We need different medical treatments, as do men and women. As to the white men can’t jump idea. Whites are physically different. One example is tendon length which is so sufficiently different, that (even without cultural differences) it explains why it is NOT blatant racism to have 10 blacks playing against each other in the final four basketball tournament. Blacks in general can jump higher than whites.

As I mentioned, there are certain common characteristics of Caucasians and Asians who live in tropical zones for long periods. If many generations of a homogeneous white or Asian groups live in a hot, tropical climate those people will develop a “tropical nose,” which is a broadening and flattening to facilitate breathing. So an Asian *White* Indian (who actually has a dark skin) might have a broader nose or an Asian from Indonesia might have a broader tropical nose, etc., but they are not considered “black” for this one trait by anthropologists.

I have no problem with anyone who sees no difference between the races in a social context and I agree with objectivism that our degree of *Volition* is the biggest part of what makes us different from the great apes. The Sciences of Anthropology and Evolutionary Psychology are not Racism. There are significant differences in heredity that do matter, for all the reasons we have discussed. Innate capacities for talent and intelligence do exist. A is A. 

What if two kids walk into a “day care of the arts” on the first day it is opened? One has the potential to be another Mozart, and one can’t carry a tune but draws like Rembrandt. Would you think it is better to get young Mozart some crayons and young Rembrandt a piano? No one can disprove comprehensive IQ tests or the SAT’s as good indicators of academic success, but I am also leery of pigeon holing some poor kid into “industrial arts,” or mark another kid for college, when volition, application, and interest matter as much.

Blacks commit a disproportionate number of crimes as an ethnic group in America. Arabs commit more hijackings. Fat men need less scrutiny at an airport. South Africa is “the rape capital of the world.”

If you watch any “black movies” you will know the level of violence is incredible, which is not unlike regular, generic “blockbusters” but in “black movies” the violence is more within a family or a neighborhood than international or in cowboy shoot-um-ups. This is in sync with the amount of violence in black families and neighborhoods, and in their ethnic music.

The movie, “Barbershop” is hailed by black people, as SO TRUE TO LIFE. In that movie, everyone threatens violence, commits violence, or has violence committed against them. I candidly spoke to a person of that ethnic persuasion and they thought nothing of the constant unremitting, violence. When I pressed them about it, they thought that it did COMICALLY reflect their life, but that they never thought of it as SO violent before. It was just their life.

From, "The Missing Link," by Ayn Rand. I am not a student of the theory of evolution and, therefore, I am neither its supporter nor its opponent. But a certain hypothesis has haunted me for years; I want to stress that it is only a hypothesis. There is an enormous breach of continuity between men and all the other living species. The difference lies in the nature of man's consciousness, in its distinctive characteristic: his conceptual faculty. It is as if, after eons of physiological development, the evolutionary process altered its course, and the higher stages of development focused primarily on the consciousness of living species, not their bodies. But the development of a man's consciousness is volitional: no matter what the innate degree of his intelligence, he must develop it, he must learn how to use it, he must become a human being by choice. What if he does not choose to? Then he becomes a transitional phenomenon - a desperate creature that struggles frantically against his own nature, longing for the effortless "safety" of an animal's consciousness, which he cannot recapture, and rebelling against a human consciousness, which he is afraid to achieve.

For years, scientists have been looking for a "missing link" between man and animals. Perhaps that missing link is the anti-conceptual mentality. end quote

[Peter]

14 minutes ago, tmj said:

The question would be if you need a future blood transfusion, do you need to stipulate the amount of the donor’s Asia ness?

I see you are half-joking, in the case of our current Coronavirus pandemic, but it may be plausible to think / come to the conclusion that, the selection of an Asian's blood transfusion might aid in fighting Covid-19. 

[caroljane]

Peter, you speculated .that the Chinese might be developing a Covid variant that would affect only non-Asians.  Do you think non-Asians somewhere might be working on the same project, to affect only Asians.?

Gee, I guess we  better hope so.

[Ellen Stuttle]

IS DR. FAUCI ABOUT TO BE EXPOSED? WaPo Columnist Says Wuhan Lab Investigation Would Expose Dr. Fauci, US Taxpayer Funding of CCP BioLabs (VIDEO)

 

Quote

On Saturday Washington Post columnist Josh Rogin joined the Bannon War Room and told the audience that Dr. Tony Fauci needs to provide answers about his involvement with the Wuhan Institute of Virology.

Josh Rogin told the War Room:

Rogin said Saturday the only way to move forward from the pandemic is to investigate its origins, including a real independent investigation in Wuhan.

“And then we’ve got to check out all the labs here,” he said. “Turn over some rocks that are going to make some people very uncomfortable.”

Dr. Fauci and the National Institutes of Health were responsible for using taxpayer dollars for gain of function research, to weaponize viruses to make them more contagious and more deadly.

“There’s no statue of limitations on 3 million deaths,” Rogin said. “Every one of those coffins comes with a lawyer.”

“We’re going to need to investigate the lab,” he said. “And that means asking some tough questions of Anthony Fauci, and i’m sure he doesn’t want to be asked those questions, but tough.”

Ellen

[Peter]

5 hours ago, caroljane said:

Peter, you speculated .that the Chinese might be developing a Covid variant that would affect only non-Asians.

I also speculated, because of the low Taiwanese death rate, that the Chinese already developed such a disease. 

But . . . we may be past the worse.

“On The Sunny Side of the Street.”

. . . Grab your coat and get your hat

Leave your worry on the doorstep

Just direct your feet

To the sunny side of the street

Can't you hear a pitter-pat?

And that happy tune is your step

Life can be so sweet

On the sunny side of the street . . . .

[Peter]

1 hour ago, Ellen Stuttle said:

Ellen

May the truth emerge from under the rock.

[Peter]

I just wanted to mention something else about Anthropologist Doctor Laid. When I heard about him dying from (E-bola?) I felt like crying. For a time I thought about changing my major from English / Secondary Education to Anthropology, but I did not. What a great professor and a wonderful human being.  Peter

[Michael Stuart Kelly]

Even Bill Maher thinks the mainstream media is trash re the Coronavirus.

Michael