Donald Trump

[william.scherk]

So when the words people come, his supporters know he's punking them.

I hate it when the words people come, and I am a words person myself. I hate them. Doesn't everyone? They are like crows, mobbish, tricksters, crapping on everything clean and bright and wordless. They feed on carrion and use tools to pick bugs from trees. They flock. They have primitive epistemology. They mutter.

Word. Word game. Game. Word. Words don't do no work! They are like breath. In, out, blah blah. And don't get me started on writers. Thinkers. Word-smiths. Eminent. Producer. Regular Joe. Story! Word salad.

Words -- bah! Similes, metaphors, analogies, even sucking holes of synecdoche. Sinkhole. Wall. Dyke. Dick-licker.

Speaking of words, while everyone and their dog weighed in on the schmuckiness of kvetching about getting schlonged in Iowa and elsewhere ... what about the Bathroom Words? Disgusting. What was Hillary doing in there? What kind of schmutz dripped? What are we not talking about? Schmozzle.

Word. Crow. Trump. Drip. Wipe. One thousand pages of Trump. Fishwrap. Drip stains. Fiddlesticks. Schmaltz. Trump Trump Trump. Crow!

Edited December 24, 2015 by william.scherk

[Selene]

marxism

[ThomasHägg]

Word. Crow. Trump. Drip. Wipe. One thousand pages of Trump. Fishwrap. Drip stains. Fiddlesticks. Trump Trump Trump. Crow!

This thread is finally starting to make sense to me...

[Selene]

Word. Crow. Trump. Drip. Wipe. One thousand pages of Trump. Fishwrap. Drip stains. Fiddlesticks. Trump Trump Trump. Crow!

This thread is finally starting to make sense to me... <<<<

Good, explain it to me then lol ...

[Michael Stuart Kelly]

Here's the thing about words.

When a guy says we have to go to war because of weapons of mass destruction, both "war" and "weapons of mass destruction" are words. These get transmuted into deeds. Except the war came in deed, but there were no weapons of mass destruction.

Yet the words people yacked on and on and on as if the deed (or lack thereof) of weapons of mass destruction could be defeated with other words.

That's on the conservative end and, I believe, is one of the primary reasons Obama got elected.

On his end, he is a words man par excellence. His words have a very loose relationship with deeds. Islamist fanatics burn down embassies over YouTube videos and nothing else. Why? Because the word said so. As to the other deeds, don't put a word on them and they don't exist.

Except they do to people who have to live their lives producing things other than words.

Trump produces a lot more than words. But the words people keep looking for the right words to say to manipulate people who prefer deeds. It ain't working and all they can do is keep coming up with one theory after another--usually premised on Trump supporters are stupid.

Well, it is true that Trump supporters stopped listening to their words awhile back. Their deeds were fucking up the world so there's a mess to clean up. And it will get cleaned up with Trump. After that happens and the good times get rolling again, the deeds people will become more complacent and there will be time for words people to get power again. Then they can pretend to themselves they are better than everyone else and look to their power as proof. Until they fuck up the world again and need another intervention.

Michael

[william.scherk]

Here's the thing about words.

When a guy says we have to go to war because of weapons of mass destruction, both "war" and "weapons of mass destruction" are words. These get transmuted into deeds. Except the war came in deed, but there were no weapons of mass destruction.

Let's be clear. You are a word person, Michael. Like me. We are both 'word people.' Words matter. I snip-quoted you unfairly simply to take issue with the phrase -- because it is far too fluid and non-descriptive to carry any weight. It only has a whisper of a meaning when unspoken assumptions accompany its use.

Words are about the only thing I accept as quasi-evidence of +4 dimentions, string-theory, or the Multiverse. If anything on heaven and earth can be a multiverse, it is the universe of words. They operate in four dimensions, they mutate, grow, multiply, die. They have connotations that are perceptible, but difficult to quantify. Every day the NSA sucks in three trillion words to identify risk. Words have risk. Words cause fights. Words push to war. "Word People" is a vague phrase that carries no direct connotation. It's fudge.

There are words missing from the following selection. They are, in no particular order, Iraqi chemical weapons, OPCW, 2001, 2003, Yellowcake, Intelligence, evidence, claims, lies, pretext, critics, investigators, journalists, scientists, politicians. Tony Blair. Sexed-up.

Yet the words people yacked on and on and on as if the deed (or lack thereof) of weapons of mass destruction could be defeated with other words.

That's on the conservative end and, I believe, is one of the primary reasons Obama got elected.

On his end, he is a words man par excellence. His words have a very loose relationship with deeds. Islamist fanatics burn down embassies over YouTube videos and nothing else. Why? Because the word said so. As to the other deeds, don't put a word on them and they don't exist.

Sometimes words are used to indicate specificity, particular relationships, logical chains, arguments, refutations, analysis, points of contention. These situations I call the Concertos of Reason.

Sometimes words are just a hash of generalities, lacking specifity. They don't do a strong job of communicating. They are like placemats, not a meal.

Except they do to people who have to live their lives producing things other than words.

Trump produces a lot more than words. But the words people keep looking for the right words to say to manipulate people who prefer deeds. It ain't working and all they can do is keep coming up with one theory after another--usually premised on Trump supporters are stupid.

Well, it is true that Trump supporters stopped listening to their words awhile back. Their deeds were fucking up the world so there's a mess to clean up. And it will get cleaned up with Trump. After that happens and the good times get rolling again, the deeds people will become more complacent and there will be time for words people to get power again. Then they can pretend to themselves they are better than everyone else and look to their power as proof. Until they fuck up the world again and need another intervention.

I thoroughly agree with an argument that says the Republican caucus-goers in Dickinson, Oceola and Lyon counties could give a fuck about DC-based critics from the mainstream and subsidiary media. I strongly agree that 'leftist' media penetration into the GOP Trump fan base is effectively nil in terms of changing minds and seeding doubt. I even might agree partially that every attempt to criticize Trump from within his party has failed, whether from Huckabee or Priebus or Bush or Fiorina or from lesser lights or media trumpets for other candidates. If the goal was to marshal a 'normal' take-down using formerly effective tools from attack-ads to nasty comebacks, it is a fail. Among loyalists, he is UnTrumpable.

So, dear Michael, I agree with some/most of the unstated but understood building blocks of your stance against ineffective anti-Trump word-fixated arguments.

Separately, I think I pay most attention to the murmurs and data points about the Iowa 'ground game.' This is genera in search of species too of course: the numbers are not in. The estimations could all be wrong. Cruz might actually be cruising to a precinct show-up number that out-hustles Trump's machine. There is a lot of data 'guesses' and goals to lay against participation in 2008, 2012.

For serious Trump-watchers, I suggest digging down into the ground-games and the informed pundits. I think it adds some thrill to the game to know how much comes down to the hustle of the day. Unlike all other states, you don't show up, take your ballot, plonk your vote. You are there all fucking day, almost. You have to listen to the pitch from the 'faction' of each registered candidate who has mustered a turnout. This is retail politics where you willingly give up your time to be badgered and cajoled and hustled.

It is one of the most interesting electoral contest types in the entire world. So, I am very interested in the nuts and bolts. I am truly intrigued to see the relationship between Iowa polls and the end of day results. And because it is the first in hoopla by far, there will be boats of words about all the nitty-gritty. This process is played out hard. Did Trump meet his goals of quality precinct leaders able to enunciate his virtues enough to give the schlong to other pretenders? Did his nitty-gritty game place in a thousand and five fire-halls? What action, what human drama. What a microcosm of Conservative America.

All this for a contest in which a good couple hundred thousand people might show up to hustle and get hustled, to be ranted at and to rant convincingly in turn. These are not ordinary people. They are going to have such fun -- and don't know what will happen, heart in hand, fingers crossed.

Beyond that, the next cliff-hanger in New Hampshire seems like a quick piss. Bam. Vote. Zip. Talk it up. Who's on First. Oh, noes, polls! Bang. Here we are in South Carolina, with a whole lot of hope on the line. Exciting? You bet. A steamroller for Trump? We don't know yet. Someone will get schlonged.

Total delegate count from these early but life-or-death heats for the big race? Yeah, just what you would figure. Like taking the weather for Canada from nary but Newfoundland. And then it's time enough for nine more Canadian elections before bathtime in Cleveland. How you guys mentally bear this endless hoopla and propaganda is a marvel to me.

That was my attempt to broaden discussion, hint hint. I love Michael's passion. There are going to be consequences to all these words in this thread. Let's not call Losers till they lose. Crow now, eat crow later. Enjoy the games and do not over-indulge in stereotyping the other teams' fans. Eggs. Hatching. Chickens!

Word!

[Selene]

For serious Trump-watchers, I suggest digging down into the ground-games and the informed pundits. I think it adds some thrill to the game to know how much comes down to the hustle of the day. Unlike all other states, you don't show up, take your ballot, plonk your vote. You are there all fucking day, almost. You have to listen to the pitch from the 'faction' of each registered candidate who has mustered a turnout. This is retail politics where you willingly give up your time to be badgered and cajoled and hustled.

It is one of the most interesting electoral contest types in the entire world. So, I am very interested in the nuts and bolts. I am truly intrigued to see the relationship between Iowa polls and the end of day results. And because it is the first in hoopla by far, there will be boats of words about all the nitty-gritty. This process is played out hard. Did Trump meet his goals of quality precinct leaders able to enunciate his virtues enough to give the schlong to other pretenders? Did his nitty-gritty game place in a thousand and five fire-halls? What action, what human drama. What a microcosm of Conservative America.

William, are you under the impression that the Republican Iowa "caucus rules" are the same as the Democratic Iowa "caucus rules?"

A...

[Wolf DeVoon]

Let's be clear. You are a word person, Michael. Like me. We are both 'word people.'

What is a not-word person? An infant? An orangutan (Bahasa for "silent people")?

[william.scherk]

William, are you under the impression that the Republican Iowa "caucus rules" are the same as the Democratic Iowa "caucus rules?"

No.

[Michael Stuart Kelly]

Oh ye of little faith.

Hear the wise words of Roger L. Simon:

How I Stopped Worrying and Learned to Love The Donald for Xmas

Michael

[Brant Gaede]

Let's be clear. You are a word person, Michael. Like me. We are both 'word people.'

What is a not-word person? An infant? An orangutan (Bahasa for "silent people")?

You are thinking of normal, unexceptional word persons and William of abnormal, exceptional word persons. (Normal cells and cancer cells? Non-intellectual and intellectual? Not worth reading and worth reading? Worker and thinker [non-worker]? Vice versa, vice versa, vice versa, vice versa????)

--Brant

[Marc]

His first wife coming from Communist Czechoslovakia was a member of the Czech Olympic Ski Team.

She, in learning English developed a pattern that is classic in certain folks learning our very complicated language.

So she would say, "Where is the Stuart?" and always put in the "the" before a person's first name.

So, he is a very sensitive man.

A...

Ok , cute story but how does that make him sensitive ? My wife is from communist Cuba and played volleyball ,but she has never called me the Marc . Although , I would love that !

The Marc

To The Marc:

Please note, I am from NY City and was involved with the Cuban community way back in the mid 50's and you cannot conflate the speaking patterns of the two types of immigrants.

Cubans and Czechs have very differently coded speech.

Nice try though.

A...

Not trying to The Adam !!! I lived in Prague for a year in 2000 and no one ever called me " The Marc " . Either way my man , "The Zero " is my new name for DT , cause he and I both know that his chances are ZERO . One day soon , this board shall too

[Marc]

His first wife coming from Communist Czechoslovakia was a member of the Czech Olympic Ski Team.

She, in learning English developed a pattern that is classic in certain folks learning our very complicated language.

So she would say, "Where is the Stuart?" and always put in the "the" before a person's first name.

So, he is a very sensitive man.

A...

Ok , cute story but how does that make him sensitive ? My wife is from communist Cuba and played volleyball ,but she has never called me the Marc . Although , I would love that !

The Marc

To The Marc:

Please note, I am from NY City and was involved with the Cuban community way back in the mid 50's and you cannot conflate the speaking patterns of the two types of immigrants.

Cubans and Czechs have very differently coded speech.

Nice try though.

A...

So The Adam , will you please enlighten me as to "the sensitive " comment kind sir

[Marc]

I honestly see that DT is getting a free pass for anything that he states . I understand his reasoning and he is brilliant . That being said , if Rubio , Bush or whoever stated that , they would have been ostracized

Marc,

This is the same mistake everybody has made about Trump so far.

You think it's about words and if someone says this word or that, they go up or down in the polls. In fact, anti-Trump people are going nuts trying to find the right words that will take him down and, since July, they haven't found one.

The problem is that words have nothing to do with it.

Here's my prediction. People are still going to be searching for the right words to manipulate folks with all the way up to Trump's inauguration.

Trump has a real connection with those who support him. They know he's competent, thinks like they do (common sense, honest word, family, etc.), and is a producer, not a war-monger.

So when the words people come, his supporters know he's punking them. And they are enormously entertained.

Michael

I don't see words , I see word games .

Iran , economy , jobs , terrorism , immigration .

The dialogue should be on the latter , not the former . The media , ALL of the POLITICIANS including Trump are playing the same game . Trump is better at it so far , cause he playing to the folks who don't vote , don't wanna vote and won't vote .

Reagan Democrats ?????? God Bless RR RIP , he aint no Reagan

[Marc]

I honestly see that DT is getting a free pass for anything that he states . I understand his reasoning and he is brilliant . That being said , if Rubio , Bush or whoever stated that , they would have been ostracized

Marc,

This is the same mistake everybody has made about Trump so far.

You think it's about words and if someone says this word or that, they go up or down in the polls. In fact, anti-Trump people are going nuts trying to find the right words that will take him down and, since July, they haven't found one.

The problem is that words have nothing to do with it.

Here's my prediction. People are still going to be searching for the right words to manipulate folks with all the way up to Trump's inauguration.

Trump has a real connection with those who support him. They know he's competent, thinks like they do (common sense, honest word, family, etc.), and is a producer, not a war-monger.

So when the words people come, his supporters know he's punking them. And they are enormously entertained.

Michael

And its my point exactly , this is about entertainment - its a reality TV show. We have Supreme court issues among other things . We need Marco Rubio in the chair . We need substance , there are enough reality TV shows on the TV these days .

DT is having fun , thats why he aint serious . He knows that he is not gonna play much longer as he wants to be Sheldon Adelson , and you know what ????? He is !!!! He gets to call this election !!!!!!

[Marc]

Sheldon , Marco , they will set things up right

God Bless America forever , its time to get serious Mr and Mrs American voter !

#PresidentRubio2016

Susan Estrogen, another old Evita hag, disagrees with your Rubio Latin Cuban love affair...

It's not exactly like Babe Ruth pointing with his bat to the stands where he was about to hit a home run. But the presidential primary equivalent is that candidates can stay in the race so long as they can point to a state where they are going to win — and, preferably, it's an early state.

"Winning" in primary politics is very often not about winning but about doing "better than expected," particularly if you're not the frontrunner. But at some point, sooner or later, you do need to win. You need to show that you're not just second or third choice but the first choice somewhere.

And therein lies the problem for Sen. Marco Rubio of Florida. It's just not clear where he is going to win, at least among the four early states: Iowa, New Hampshire, South Carolina and Nevada. It's unlikely that anyone will sweep all four, but if you don't win one of them, how do you claim to be in the top tier?

http://www.creators.com/opinion/susan-estrich.html?columnsName=ses

A...

Watch out for American political mine fields...

Wow !!!!!!!!! Great read !!!!!! So Susan Estrichs' son thinks that Trump will win the nomination !!!!! Thanks so much !!!! How about Susans next door neighbour ??????

I really could not give a f--- about Susan Estrich ( never heard of her until today ) thinks about or writes about .

Would like to remind you that this thread is not about the eventual Nominee , nor about my "love affair " with the Latin Cuban Rubio . It is about who gets to sit in the chair - thats it . Reading some of the ridiculousness on this thread though makes me feel like commenting about who I believe will win . Yeah , its Rubio and its pretty freaking clear to me ( and political insiders who just are not spouting propaganda ) that he will win .

Let me explain to you how I believe the first 4 states go .... and no ... I do not believe that they will go Trump , Trump , Trump , Trump .....

If you really studied the important things , the money , the lack of spending , the ground game you would easily understand why Trump is getting ready to bid farewell .

Maybe after NH , maybe on Super Tuesday . Who cares .

Trump knows this , the smart money knows this , I know this .

You will know it soon .

[turkeyfoot]

And they are enormously entertained.

Michael

, this is about entertainment

Hes held up a mirror to himself and we can see in it how far the once mighty have fallen. Imo, its not something to celebrate, instead its tragic.

[Marc]

marxism

This is really funny but this looks exactly like my wifes moms house in Cuba !!! Literally !!!!!!!!!

[Michael Stuart Kelly]

He knows that he is not gonna play much longer as he wants to be Sheldon Adelson , and you know what ????? He is !!!! He gets to call this election !!!!!!

Marc,

I can't wait until the coin drops and you find out Sheldon and The Donald are in cahoots.

I think The Donald visited Sheldon (the recent visit) and told him, "Save your money, Sheldi, and don't worry. As president, I'll take care of Israel." And Sheldon, being a businessman... you know...

Promoting Israel is all Sheldi really wants out of politics.

Michael

[Marc]

William, are you under the impression that the Republican Iowa "caucus rules" are the same as the Democratic Iowa "caucus rules?"

No.

Yeah cause how could 2 Canadians know anything about US politics , right ?

[Marc]

He knows that he is not gonna play much longer as he wants to be Sheldon Adelson , and you know what ????? He is !!!! He gets to call this election !!!!!!

Marc,

I can't wait until the coin drops and you find out Sheldon and The Donald are in cahoots.

I think The Donald visited Sheldon (the recent visit) and told him, "Save your money, Sheldi, and don't worry. As president, I'll take care of Israel." And Sheldon, being a businessman... you know...

Promoting Israel is all Sheldi really wants out of politics.

Michael

Finally you have come around !!!!!!!!!!!!!!

My exact point !!!!!

Shelly wins and DT wins .

Our only issue here is does DT want to be President and DT will answer with a resounding NO ,

Deal maker make deals .

Shelly dont wanna be President he wants to be King , and he is !!!!!!

DT wants what Shelly has , they made their deal and DT gets to be on Team Shelly !!!!!!!!!!!

[Michael Stuart Kelly]

Let's be clear. You are a word person, Michael. Like me. We are both 'word people.' Words matter.

William,

This is a prime case of why Trump is winning so much with people like me.

Word-wise, you haven't even tried to understand what I mean. Instead, you prefer to play word games qua word games.

Of course I know words are important. Have you ever heard of hyperbole as a rhetorical device? Come on...

I have been talking about using words in two different manners:

1. Connecting words to reality. (Trump's way.)

2. Severing words from reality (The word people's way.)

The reason this seems muddied is because when Trump speaks about issues his people care about, he keeps his words connected to reality. When he toys with word people (most of the mainstream media and political pundits), he plays a game very similar to Social Justice Warrior Baiting. Then his words are not connected to any reality other than running them crazy, which he succeeds at splendidly.

His supporters know the difference. The word people don't.

I'll try to explain an example, but, based on the way you are currently ignoring what I am getting at so far, I'm not too hopeful this will get across.

When Trump says he will deport illegal immigrants, he is talking about a solution to a real problem--a problem in reality--for his supporters. To word people, he is merely talking about what if this and what if that--every goddam thing under the sun except the problem that illegals are not supposed to be here. (btw - That's what the "illegal" in illegal immigrant means. And that's the problem in reality for his supporters, the one the word people constantly try to blank out of awareness.)

His supporters know that in carrying out the solution and getting rid of illegal situations, many unexpected things happen and they trust he will deal with them in the best, most common sense, manner as they arise.

What will the word people do? Will they even consider the problem? Hell no. They will be waiting so they can spring a gotcha when some detail or other does not come out exactly as said earlier.

In other words, to Trump supporters, they are interested in fixing the problem. The word people have severed the problem from the words and want to play gotcha and credibility games with the words instead. Why do they do that? Easy. By playing word games, they deflect attention from the problem that exists in reality.

That's why people who want to fix the problem have stopped listening to what they say. It's not a problem of disagreement. It's a problem of relevancy. In terms of fixing the problem, the word people are irrelevant. They made themselves this way. On purpose.

If you don't understand that this is the way Trump supporters think, you will not understand why I feel no enthusiasm when you start a long post like you just did by taking hyperbole literally, then running with that. We are talking about different things.

One thing is certain, though. Trump is going to win the presidency.

Then, for issues like illegal immigrants, manmade climate change, ISIS, etc., we shall see how Trump connects his words to reality. Don't expect him to prohibit the government from using certain words or establish COBS-like teams to "control the narrative."

Expect him, instead, to resolve issues decisively--in reality. If something needs built, he will put together a crack team and build it. If something needs to be smashed, he will put together a crack team and smash it. If something needs a system to work, he will put together a crack team and not only make the system, he will make sure the damn thing works well.

This person or that may not like the solution Trump implements, but they will not be able to say the problem drug on as people argued over words.

Michael

[Michael Stuart Kelly]

DT wants what Shelly has , they made their deal and DT gets to be on Team Shelly !!!!!!!!!!!

Marc,

You mean Donald Trump wants to be No. 2 to Sheldon?

In your dreams.

The way he's doing it, he gets to be kingmaker and king at the same time. Let's see if Shelly can top that one.

btw - You are right about one thing and I will come around to that.

Shelly is better than Sheldi as a nickname.

Michael

[Marc]

And they are enormously entertained.

Michael

, this is about entertainment

Hes held up a mirror to himself and we can see in it how far the once mighty have fallen. Imo, its not something to celebrate, instead its tragic.

so true

[Brant Gaede]

Whistling past the graveyard?

http://www.redstate.com/2015/12/23/despair-christmas-credo-republicans/