anthony Posted December 20, 2013 Share Posted December 20, 2013 I know God exists... ...and everyone is free to choose to replace it with any other explanation they wish. Greg OK, then - here (was) my version: "In The Beginning was The Void (volitional.omniscient.intelligent.designer). The Void looked upon what there was, and there was Nothing - but Himself. [in fact, kinda boring]. He, to Himself: "I'll make Something." And The Void created the Elements, and He packed them tight together. He conceived 'Time', and infinite 'Space'. He knew that with unlimited time and endless space, Existents and Entities would emerge in every possible combination and permutation of the Elements. He knew that Consciousness as emergent property would slowly arrive in corners of His Creation, and that the highest manifestation of it would be 'The Ones' - who would possess the faculty to envisage Him. He knew that in all their innocently unknowing ways, there would be many fallacies regarding The Void - of His OmniPresence in their Existence; and of Mysticism, Supernaturalism and Spirituality- and In advance He forgave the Ones: for wrongly presuming that he demanded their worship of Him; for assuming upon The Primacy of Consciousness; and for inventing the Idea of His 'Commands and Judgment' on their Lives. He knew that with Reason and Volition, the Ones would find their own Way. [They'll be alright]. And that Worlds would come, and Worlds would go. He smiled upon the Concept of his forthcoming Creation. He, to Himself: "It will be Good." (And in a flash, The Void exploded His Elements and blasted them and Himself to Kingdom Come.) That's a good one, Tony. We're all headed for Kingdom Come... one way or the other. Greg Ahh, it's a tale - and as credible as any other, I believe. It fitted my personal narrative. You liked my one-off Creator who removed himself after putting Existence in motion? We may have very different ideas of Kingdom Come, though...Ha. And thanks. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
moralist Posted December 20, 2013 Share Posted December 20, 2013 Yup. They call me Pepto Bromide. So let me get this clear: does God ever punish anybody? Nope. People angrily blame (unjustly accuse) God for the consequences of their own actions. And when the anger of their false accusations becomes too painful, they deny His existence. Or are "we ...the only ones who punish ourselves."? It's all just us screwing over ourselves. All God does is give us the rope of free choice. We are the only ones who hang ourselves with it. Greg Somehow I knew that response was coming. Why do there have to be any hangings? For there to be the freedom to choose not to hang yourself, the freedom to choose to hang yourself has to exist. All truth is double edged and always cuts both ways. Greg Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
moralist Posted December 20, 2013 Share Posted December 20, 2013 I know God exists... ...and everyone is free to choose to replace it with any other explanation they wish. Greg OK, then - here (was) my version: "In The Beginning was The Void (volitional.omniscient.intelligent.designer). The Void looked upon what there was, and there was Nothing - but Himself. [in fact, kinda boring]. He, to Himself: "I'll make Something." And The Void created the Elements, and He packed them tight together. He conceived 'Time', and infinite 'Space'. He knew that with unlimited time and endless space, Existents and Entities would emerge in every possible combination and permutation of the Elements. He knew that Consciousness as emergent property would slowly arrive in corners of His Creation, and that the highest manifestation of it would be 'The Ones' - who would possess the faculty to envisage Him. He knew that in all their innocently unknowing ways, there would be many fallacies regarding The Void - of His OmniPresence in their Existence; and of Mysticism, Supernaturalism and Spirituality- and In advance He forgave the Ones: for wrongly presuming that he demanded their worship of Him; for assuming upon The Primacy of Consciousness; and for inventing the Idea of His 'Commands and Judgment' on their Lives. He knew that with Reason and Volition, the Ones would find their own Way. [They'll be alright]. And that Worlds would come, and Worlds would go. He smiled upon the Concept of his forthcoming Creation. He, to Himself: "It will be Good." (And in a flash, The Void exploded His Elements and blasted them and Himself to Kingdom Come.) That's a good one, Tony. We're all headed for Kingdom Come... one way or the other. Greg Ahh, it's a tale - and as credible as any other, I believe. It fitted my personal narrative. You liked my one-off Creator who removed himself after putting Existence in motion? We may have very different ideas of Kingdom Come, though...Ha. And thanks. I always enjoy a creative narrative, Tony. When people are good... ...why they're good doesn't matter. Greg Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brant Gaede Posted December 20, 2013 Share Posted December 20, 2013 I always enjoy a creative narrative, Tony. When people are good......why they're good doesn't matter.GregIn exchange for being "good" they sold their souls to the devil.--Brantdoes that rip it? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
moralist Posted December 20, 2013 Share Posted December 20, 2013 Somehow I knew that response was coming. Why do there have to be any hangings? How else will all the sinners (everyone but Greg) get what they deserve? That may work in court, Robert, but you'll never be able to back up that false assertion here. Nowhere on this forum will you find where I've ever exempted myself from getting what I deserve as the consequences of my own actions. Just like gravity, everyone is governed by exactly the same moral law. Greg Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
moralist Posted December 20, 2013 Share Posted December 20, 2013 I always enjoy a creative narrative, Tony. When people are good... ...why they're good doesn't matter. Greg In exchange for being "good" they sold their souls to the devil. --Brant does that rip it? You're way too clever for your own good, Brant. Greg Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Michael Stuart Kelly Posted December 20, 2013 Share Posted December 20, 2013 That may work in court... Greg,The silly crap that was just aimed at you doesn't even work in court.It's basically hatred jazzed up a little. But only a little. There's not a smidgen of elementary observation behind it.You've only said a bazillion times on this forum you deserve the consequences of your own actions.And this dude says you exempted yourself.Duh...Michael Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Robert Baratheon Posted December 21, 2013 Share Posted December 21, 2013 That may work in court... Greg,The silly crap that was just aimed at you doesn't even work in court.It's basically hatred jazzed up a little. But only a little. There's not a smidgen of elementary observation behind it.You've only said a bazillion times on this forum you deserve the consequences of your own actions.And this dude says you exempted yourself.Duh... MichaelActually, Greg got me wrong - he's exempted himself from the category of sinners he's always railing against, not the made-up laws of his religion. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ellen Stuttle Posted December 21, 2013 Share Posted December 21, 2013 There are various speculations on the steps from amino acids to proteins to primitive semi-cells to prokaryote cells to eukaryote cells (prokaryote cells don't have a cellular nucleus).Here's a good comparison chart, with further information following, on the differences between prokaryotic and eukaryotic cells.Ellen Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ellen Stuttle Posted December 21, 2013 Share Posted December 21, 2013 I know God exists so there isn't any problem with that inanimate/animate gap, or even with the amoral animal/morally accountable man gap either. A Creator who designed the physical and moral laws governing both is a perfectly rational logical explanationSo you say.Ellen Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Michael Stuart Kelly Posted December 21, 2013 Share Posted December 21, 2013 Actually, Greg got me wrong...As long as I'm in this grumpy mood, look at the expression here.Two relatively intelligent people get the same meaning from this guy's words, but what does he say?He says, "So-and-so got me wrong," not, "I was unclear in my expression."I don't think there's a cure for this.You can dress some people up, but you can't take 'em anywhere. Michael Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ellen Stuttle Posted December 21, 2013 Share Posted December 21, 2013 Somehow I knew that response was coming.Why do there have to be any hangings?How else will all the sinners (everyone but Greg) get what they deserve?That may work in court, Robert, but you'll never be able to back up that false assertion here. Nowhere on this forum will you find where I've ever exempted myself from getting what I deserve as the consequences of my own actions. Just like gravity, everyone is governed by exactly the same moral law.GregRobert didn't say you've exempted yourself from getting what you deserve. The "(everyone but Greg)" parenthetical follows "sinners" not "get what they deserve."EllenEdit: Oops. I was reading in sequence and didn't realize that Robert had already pointed that out Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Michael Stuart Kelly Posted December 21, 2013 Share Posted December 21, 2013 Ellen,I personally understood this qualification applying to the proposition, not just the subject, even though it is placed right after the subject.At any rate, has Greg ever affirmed he is not a sinner? (I know you didn't claim this. I'm just asking you because I'm too lazy to make an new post since I'm here already. )Greg's a Christian, right? Isn't one of the primary doctrines of Christianity that all humans are sinners?Maybe I missed a post where he wrote something denying this?But if Greg is included in the sinners in the proposition, then the understanding I (and he) made is valid.I think the writing is quite unclear.Michael Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brant Gaede Posted December 21, 2013 Share Posted December 21, 2013 I don't think there's a cure for this.You can dress some people up, but you can't take 'em anywhere. Michael Try naked.--Brantshot in the dark Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Michael Stuart Kelly Posted December 21, 2013 Share Posted December 21, 2013 Brant,I now have in image in my mind that will go with me to my grave.Damn you!Michael Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
moralist Posted December 21, 2013 Share Posted December 21, 2013 That may work in court... Greg, The silly crap that was just aimed at you doesn't even work in court. It's basically hatred jazzed up a little. But only a little. There's not a smidgen of elementary observation behind it. You've only said a bazillion times on this forum you deserve the consequences of your own actions. And this dude says you exempted yourself. Duh... Michael I've not yet been able to quite understand that, Michael. How I can repeat the same ideas so many times, and yet people comment as if I had never said it. Go figure! Greg Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Michael Stuart Kelly Posted December 21, 2013 Share Posted December 21, 2013 Greg,From what I understand, this guy wasn't talking about that part.It's worse.He decided to ignore ALL of Christian history since its Jewish beginnings in the Garden of Eden (according to the Bible), either that or pretend you did not have even an elementary understanding Christian doctrine (that all men are born sinners), and was actually claiming you were exempting yourself from being a sinner. That you were claiming to be perfect.It never occurred to me that someone would make such a weird claim to a Christian. I mean, well, duh!I know I just said "duh" again, but what other word is there for this? Michael Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brant Gaede Posted December 21, 2013 Share Posted December 21, 2013 It never occurred to me that someone would make such a weird claim to a Christian. I mean, well, duh!I know I just said "duh" again, but what other word is there for this? MichaelTry "naked."--Branttwofer (and the neighbors have yet to complain) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
moralist Posted December 21, 2013 Share Posted December 21, 2013 Greg, From what I understand, this guy wasn't talking about that part. It's worse. He decided to ignore ALL of Christian history since its Jewish beginnings in the Garden of Eden (according to the Bible), either that or pretend you did not have even an elementary understanding Christian doctrine (that all men are born sinners), and was actually claiming you were exempting yourself from being a sinner. That you were claiming to be perfect. It never occurred to me that someone would make such a weird claim to a Christian. I mean, well, duh! I know I just said "duh" again, but what other word is there for this? Michael I see what you mean. That's even more irrational. Christianity 101: "For all have sinned and fallen short of the glory of God." We can't even be good by our own efforts. Greg Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Michael Stuart Kelly Posted December 21, 2013 Share Posted December 21, 2013 Try "naked."--Branttwofer (and the neighbors have yet to complain)Brant,Mercy, for God's sake!You're killing my future!Michael Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brant Gaede Posted December 21, 2013 Share Posted December 21, 2013 Mercy?!--Brantha, ha, ha! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ellen Stuttle Posted December 21, 2013 Share Posted December 21, 2013 Christianity 101: "For all have sinned and fallen short of the glory of God." We can't even be good by our own efforts.GregSo, in accordance with the moral law which you say your god decreed and which according to you applies to everyone, are you getting the "just and deserved consequences" of not being good?Ellen Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
anthony Posted December 21, 2013 Share Posted December 21, 2013 Christianity 101: "For all have sinned and fallen short of the glory of God." We can't even be good by our own efforts.GregSo, in accordance with the moral law which you say your god decreed and which according to you applies to everyone, are you getting the "just and deserved consequences" of not being good?EllenYes, that is a bit of a poser for you Greg. How do you manage to reconcile 'original sin' with creating your own deserved consequences? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
moralist Posted December 21, 2013 Share Posted December 21, 2013 Christianity 101: "For all have sinned and fallen short of the glory of God." We can't even be good by our own efforts. Greg So, in accordance with the moral law which you say your god decreed and which according to you applies to everyone, are you getting the "just and deserved consequences" of not being good? Ellen Yes... in the sense that we have each inherited the moral (and physical) weaknesses of our parents, who inherited it from their parents, who inherited it from their parents... (on and on) So you can see that this is not a matter of assigning blame... ...but of understanding our challenge in life to overcome what was passed on to us, and to break the chain so that it ends with us and does not get passed on to others. Those "just and deserved consequences" are why everyone DIES. So the choice is totally up to you whether you go laughing and singing, or kicking and screaming. Greg Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PDS Posted December 21, 2013 Share Posted December 21, 2013 Christianity 101: "For all have sinned and fallen short of the glory of God." We can't even be good by our own efforts.GregSo, in accordance with the moral law which you say your god decreed and which according to you applies to everyone, are you getting the "just and deserved consequences" of not being good?EllenYes... in the sense that we have each inherited the moral (and physical) weaknesses of our parents, who inherited it from their parents, who inherited it from their parents... (on and on)So you can see that this is not a matter of assigning blame......but of understanding our challenge in life to overcome what was passed on to us, and to break the chain so that it ends with us and does not get passed on to others.Those "just and deserved consequences" are why everyone DIES.So the choice is totally up to you whether you go laughing and singing, or kicking and screaming. :wink:GregDo you make this up as you go along? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Create an account or sign in to comment
You need to be a member in order to leave a comment
Create an account
Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!
Register a new accountSign in
Already have an account? Sign in here.
Sign In Now