Carlos Castaneda

[PDS]

That's a fundamental difference between the moral values each of us lives by, Robert.

I don't work for people who don't share my values.

Greg

Oh really, Greg? You don't pay anyone for their labor, or exchange your labor for payment with anyone who doesn't share 100% of your moral values? Then logically you must be a subsistence farmer, buy nothing from stores, perform all of your own services, and generate all of your own heat and electricity. Do you really expect us to believe that, or would you care to revise your absolutist statement a bit?

I eagerly await Greg's response to this point.

Prediction: The goalposts will move yet again.

Still eagerly waiting.

I sure hope Greg is wrong about this. I don't want to have to go fire 20 employees because they haven't yet read and/or understood Galt's speech. Not to mention that there a undoubtedly a few of them of have taken the wrong side in the Peikoff/Kelley split. Or worse, perhaps one or two of them has not taken a position at all.

Please do not delay your response, Greg: I am confused and need to know where today's goalposts are, or at least before year-end bonuses get cut.

[Selene]

That's a fundamental difference between the moral values each of us lives by, Robert.

I don't work for people who don't share my values.

Greg

Oh really, Greg? You don't pay anyone for their labor, or exchange your labor for payment with anyone who doesn't share 100% of your moral values? Then logically you must be a subsistence farmer, buy nothing from stores, perform all of your own services, and generate all of your own heat and electricity. Do you really expect us to believe that, or would you care to revise your absolutist statement a bit?

I eagerly await Greg's response to this point.

Prediction: The goalposts will move yet again.

Still eagerly waiting.

I sure hope Greg is wrong about this. I don't want to have to go fire 20 employees because they haven't yet read and/or understood Galt's speech. Not to mention that there a undoubtedly a few of them of have taken the wrong side in the Peikoff/Kelley split. Or worse, perhaps one or two of them has not taken a position at all.

Please do not delay your response, Greg: I am confused and need to know where today's goalposts are, or at least before year-end bonuses get cut.

Looks like the wind is coming from the right, so stay outside the right upright and fade it through...

[PDS]

That's a fundamental difference between the moral values each of us lives by, Robert.

I don't work for people who don't share my values.

Greg

Oh really, Greg? You don't pay anyone for their labor, or exchange your labor for payment with anyone who doesn't share 100% of your moral values? Then logically you must be a subsistence farmer, buy nothing from stores, perform all of your own services, and generate all of your own heat and electricity. Do you really expect us to believe that, or would you care to revise your absolutist statement a bit?

I eagerly await Greg's response to this point.

Prediction: The goalposts will move yet again.

Still eagerly waiting.

I sure hope Greg is wrong about this. I don't want to have to go fire 20 employees because they haven't yet read and/or understood Galt's speech. Not to mention that there a undoubtedly a few of them of have taken the wrong side in the Peikoff/Kelley split. Or worse, perhaps one or two of them has not taken a position at all.

Please do not delay your response, Greg: I am confused and need to know where today's goalposts are, or at least before year-end bonuses get cut.

Looks like the wind is coming from the right, so stay outside the right upright and fade it through...

Wind, or mere hot air?

[Selene]

Please do not delay your response, Greg: I am confused and need to know where today's goalposts are, or at least before year-end bonuses get cut.

Looks like the wind is coming from the right, so stay outside the right upright and fade it through...

Wind, or mere hot air?

Upon further review by the metaphysics field judge, definitely the latter.

[moralist]

That's a fundamental difference between the moral values each of us lives by, Robert.

I don't work for people who don't share my values.

Greg

Oh really, Greg? You don't pay anyone for their labor, or exchange your labor for payment with anyone who doesn't share 100% of your moral values?

I don't work for people who don't share my values.

In my business I enjoy the freedom to choose the clients for whom I work, and that also includes choosing those for whom I will not work. I don't work for people like Robert. He, and others who are like him, have their own kind who share their values and with whom they deserve to do business, just as I have my own kind whom I deserve. People just naturally tend to freely gravitate to associate with others who share their ethical values, and the private sector Capitalist business world is no exception to this principle.

Trust is the invisible glue that holds the private sector free market Capitalist business world together. The just consequence of irresponsibly trusting those who are not worthy of your trust is the betrayal it calls for. And the consequences of that betrayal are broken contracts, financial losses, angry accusations, and bottom feeding lawyers who troll the effluent contaminated waters of the legal system.

Greg

[PDS]

That's a fundamental difference between the moral values each of us lives by, Robert.I don't work for people who don't share my values.Greg

Oh really, Greg? You don't pay anyone for their labor, or exchange your labor for payment with anyone who doesn't share 100% of your moral values?

I don't work for people who don't share my values.In my business I enjoy the freedom to choose the clients for whom I work, and that also includes choosing those for whom I will not work. I don't work for people like Robert. He, and others who are like him, have their own kind who share their values and with whom they deserve to do business, just as I have my own kind whom I deserve. People just naturally tend to freely gravitate to associate with others who share their ethical values, and the private sector Capitalist business world is no exception to this principle.Trust is the invisible glue that holds the private sector free market Capitalist business world together. The just consequence of irresponsibly trusting those who are not worthy of your trust is the betrayal it calls for. And the consequences of that betrayal are broken contracts, financial losses, angry accusations, and bottom feeding lawyers who troll the effluent contaminated waters of the legal system.Greg

That sound we all just heard is the sound of goals posts moving. I hope Greg's post hole crew has shares his values--assuming they understand them.

[moralist]

That's a fundamental difference between the moral values each of us lives by, Robert.I don't work for people who don't share my values.Greg

Oh really, Greg? You don't pay anyone for their labor, or exchange your labor for payment with anyone who doesn't share 100% of your moral values?

I don't work for people who don't share my values.In my business I enjoy the freedom to choose the clients for whom I work, and that also includes choosing those for whom I will not work. I don't work for people like Robert. He, and others who are like him, have their own kind who share their values and with whom they deserve to do business, just as I have my own kind whom I deserve. People just naturally tend to freely gravitate to associate with others who share their ethical values, and the private sector Capitalist business world is no exception to this principle.Trust is the invisible glue that holds the private sector free market Capitalist business world together. The just consequence of irresponsibly trusting those who are not worthy of your trust is the betrayal it calls for. And the consequences of that betrayal are broken contracts, financial losses, angry accusations, and bottom feeding lawyers who troll the effluent contaminated waters of the legal system.Greg

That sound we all just heard is the sound of goals posts moving. I hope Greg's post hole crew has shares his values--assuming they understand them.

I said that I don't work for people who don't share my values... and I don't.

Now you can fabricate out of that anything you wish in order to justify that you work for people whose values you don't share.

Greg

[Robert Baratheon]

I don't work for people who don't share my values.

In my business I enjoy the freedom to choose the clients for whom I work, and that also includes choosing those for whom I will not work. I don't work for people like Robert. He, and others who are like him, have their own kind who share their values and with whom they deserve to do business, just as I have my own kind whom I deserve. People just naturally tend to freely gravitate to associate with others who share their ethical values, and the private sector Capitalist business world is no exception to this principle.

Trust is the invisible glue that holds the private sector free market Capitalist business world together. The just consequence of irresponsibly trusting those who are not worthy of your trust is the betrayal it calls for. And the consequences of that betrayal are broken contracts, financial losses, angry accusations, and bottom feeding lawyers who troll the effluent contaminated waters of the legal system.

Greg

I was going to full-court-press Greg on completely avoiding the substance of my post, but the idea of him accosting his clients with a lengthy values questionnaire is such a funny image that I'll just let it linger for a while.

[Brant Gaede]

Values are the values in the trade. I don't know if you are a serial killer. If I know you are a cheat, a thief and a liar, that's another matter. I don't care if you are a Christian or a pagan. A Muslim will give me pause. I think Greg is somewhat more strict than I am.

--Brant

[Jonathan]

Now you can fabricate out of that anything you wish in order to justify that you work for people whose values you don't share.

It's just amazing watching the way that everything gets twisted around in Greg's head.

J

[Selene]

Now you can fabricate out of that anything you wish in order to justify that you work for people whose values you don't share.

It's just amazing watching the way that everything gets twisted around in Greg's head.

J

Actually, it is quite creative. More like verbal Tai Chi, or, Jujitsu.

He is a moving target that appears to have no pattern of opposing at the point of the argumentation that the other party choses.

As PDS noted, moving the goal posts.

Ellen noted that at each refinement of his DNA dichotomy, he gets less clear.

Kinda like Sandburg's poem, Fog, only in reverse...

The fog comes on little cat feet.It sits lookingover harbor and cityon silent haunchesand then moves on.

I love that poem.

A...

[moralist]

Values are the values in the trade. I don't know if you are a serial killer. If I know you are a cheat, a thief and a liar, that's another matter. I don't care if you are a Christian or a pagan. A Muslim will give me pause. I think Greg is somewhat more strict than I am.

--Brant

We're on the same page, Brant...

In business, what people believe is irrelevant. Only their actual behavior defines their values... not their dogma.

Greg

[moralist]

I don't work for people who don't share my values.

In my business I enjoy the freedom to choose the clients for whom I work, and that also includes choosing those for whom I will not work. I don't work for people like Robert. He, and others who are like him, have their own kind who share their values and with whom they deserve to do business, just as I have my own kind whom I deserve. People just naturally tend to freely gravitate to associate with others who share their ethical values, and the private sector Capitalist business world is no exception to this principle.

Trust is the invisible glue that holds the private sector free market Capitalist business world together. The just consequence of irresponsibly trusting those who are not worthy of your trust is the betrayal it calls for. And the consequences of that betrayal are broken contracts, financial losses, angry accusations, and bottom feeding lawyers who troll the effluent contaminated waters of the legal system.

Greg

I was going to full-court-press Greg on completely avoiding the substance of my post, but the idea of him accosting his clients with a lengthy values questionnaire is such a funny image that I'll just let it linger for a while.

No forms are needed, Robert. It's enough to look a person in the eyes to see what's behind them. Since people come to me for my products and services, they tend to be like the decent people who recommended me to them. There are plenty of honest upright people in this world with whom to do business... so I leave the deceitful snakes to deal with their own kind just as they deserve.

Greg

[moralist]

Actually, it is quite creative. More like verbal Tai Chi, or, Jujitsu.

He is a moving target that appears to have no pattern of opposing at the point of the argumentation that the other party choses.

It takes the agreement of two people to argue. One isn't enough.

As PDS noted, moving the goal posts.

So far no one has yet been able to specifically define that complaint.

It's obvious that most of you here do not agree with the practice of working exclusively for people who share your values, and that's your free choice to do business as you please. I'm free to choose to help decent honest upright people... and the rest can all go to hell.

Greg

[Brant Gaede]

Actually, it is quite creative. More like verbal Tai Chi, or, Jujitsu.

He is a moving target that appears to have no pattern of opposing at the point of the argumentation that the other party choses.

It takes the agreement of two people to argue. One isn't enough.

As PDS noted, moving the goal posts.

So far no one has yet been able to specifically define that complaint.

It's obvious that most of you here do not agree with the practice of working exclusively for people who share your values, and that's your free choice to do business as you please. I'm free to choose to help decent honest upright people... and the rest can all go to hell.

Greg

Moi?

--Brant

~sob~

[Jonathan]

It's obvious that most of you here do not agree with the practice of working exclusively for people who share your values, and that's your free choice to do business as you please. I'm free to choose to help decent honest upright people... and the rest can all go to hell.

Greg

Greg,

What led you to believe that it's obvious that most here do not agree with the practice of working exclusively with people who share our values? How did you come to that conclusion?

In asking this, what I'm after is hearing details of the mental process that you used in coming to the conclusion that you came to. Understand?

J

[Selene]

There are plenty of honest upright people in this world with whom to do business... so I leave the deceitful snakes to deal with their own kind just as they deserve.

Greg

Completely agree with Greg on this one and I love that Devil as a snake Garden of Eden imaging.

[Ellen Stuttle]

As science continues to become more and more sophisticated, it will just keep discovering more and more sophisticated intricacies about the human body.

But no matter how amazing they are... they will still only evoke only two responses which represent the two views:

1. (wow... ) "that's a highly advanced and superbly organized design"

2. (shrug...) "that's just stupid blind dumb random chance"Greg

Note, you keep changing how you word your supposed "only two" alternatives, especially the second.

But you don't succeed at becoming any more accurate in your breakdown.

Ellen

It's fun to refine my word descriptions of the two views.

People either acknowledge the reality that the design of the physical laws which matter obeys are well ordered, or they deny that there is a well ordered design and instead claim that it just happened to have come about by stupid mindless permutations of random chaotic chance.

If you saw parts of a machine in a picture of the surface of Mars, you would say that at one time in the past there was intelligent life on the planet. And no sane person would argue that those machine parts were the result of random chaotic chance. However, the insane would.

Can you acknowledge the reality that the form and function of DNA is light years more advanced and sophisticated than machine parts?

This is just a simple yes or no question as to your own free choice of whether or not you affirm or deny that statement.

Greg

We're back in the same situation in which we started - with you framing a straw-loaded hodge-podge as a supposed alternative, then proceeding to claim that you're posing "a simple yes or no question."

The technique doesn't improve with repetition.

Ellen

[Serapis Bey]

Greg:

Hmmm...

[moralist]

There are plenty of honest upright people in this world with whom to do business... so I leave the deceitful snakes to deal with their own kind just as they deserve.

Greg

Completely agree with Greg on this one and I love that Devil as a snake Garden of Eden imaging.

As an ancient archetype, the snake has endured, and is completely appropriate to represent the nature of evil... slick, slippery, slithering, deceitful, deceptive... and lethally poisonous.

Greg

[moralist]

As science continues to become more and more sophisticated, it will just keep discovering more and more sophisticated intricacies about the human body.

But no matter how amazing they are... they will still only evoke only two responses which represent the two views:

1. (wow... ) "that's a highly advanced and superbly organized design"

2. (shrug...) "that's just stupid blind dumb random chance"Greg

Note, you keep changing how you word your supposed "only two" alternatives, especially the second.

But you don't succeed at becoming any more accurate in your breakdown.

Ellen

It's fun to refine my word descriptions of the two views.

People either acknowledge the reality that the design of the physical laws which matter obeys are well ordered, or they deny that there is a well ordered design and instead claim that it just happened to have come about by stupid mindless permutations of random chaotic chance.

If you saw parts of a machine in a picture of the surface of Mars, you would say that at one time in the past there was intelligent life on the planet. And no sane person would argue that those machine parts were the result of random chaotic chance. However, the insane would.

Can you acknowledge the reality that the form and function of DNA is light years more advanced and sophisticated than machine parts?

This is just a simple yes or no question as to your own free choice of whether or not you affirm or deny that statement.

Greg

We're back in the same situation in which we started - with you framing a straw-loaded hodge-podge as a supposed alternative, then proceeding to claim that you're posing "a simple yes or no question."

The technique doesn't improve with repetition.

Ellen

Your inability to answer says it all, Ellen.

Greg

[moralist]

Greg:

Hmmm...

Simply beautiful...

...as design honors the Designer.

Greg

[Selene]

... slick, slippery,...lethally poisonous.

Just for the reality record...most snakes are not "lethally poisoness."

Second, snakes are not "slick" or "slippery," they are quite dry in terms of touch.

[Robert Baratheon]

Just for the reality record...most snakes are not "lethally poisoness."

Second, snakes are not "slick" or "slippery," they are quite dry in terms of touch.

It's also unclear why he feels snakes are "deceitful" and "deceptive" more than any other animal.

[moralist]

... slick, slippery,...lethally poisonous.

Just for the reality record...most snakes are not "lethally poisonous."

That's where deceit can enter... when you believe they're harmless.

Second, snakes are not "slick" or "slippery," they are quite dry in terms of touch.

That all depends on which way you rub the scales.

I live in snake country and get the opportunity to interact with them up close and personal.

Greg