moralist Posted December 18, 2013 Share Posted December 18, 2013 Numbers 21:9 "And Moses made a serpent of bronze and put it on a pole, and if a serpent had bitten any man, when he looked to the serpent of bronze with a steady and absorbing gaze, he lived. That's the origin of the icon in the blue medical symbol. Greg A seemingly plausible theory, Greg. However, in fact, it's the Rod of Asclepius, from Greek mythology: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rod_of_Asclepius Which reference is older? Greg Difficult to say. That's lawyerspeak for knowing the facts but not wanting to admit to them. Greek Empire: 800 BC-600 AD Moses: 1329 BC-1271 BC Greg Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Robert Baratheon Posted December 18, 2013 Share Posted December 18, 2013 Numbers 21:9 "And Moses made a serpent of bronze and put it on a pole, and if a serpent had bitten any man, when he looked to the serpent of bronze with a steady and absorbing gaze, he lived.That's the origin of the icon in the blue medical symbol.Greg A seemingly plausible theory, Greg. However, in fact, it's the Rod of Asclepius, from Greek mythology:http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rod_of_AsclepiusWhich reference is older?Greg Difficult to say.That's lawyerspeak for knowing the facts but not wanting to admit to them.Greek Empire: 800 BC-600 ADMoses: 1329 BC-1271 BCGregThe Book of Exodus is "fact" now... LOL, okay, Greg."knowing the facts but not wanting to admit to them"Kind of like knowing the serpent staff used in medical symbols derives from Greek mythology but refusing to admit it out of embarrassment. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tmj Posted December 18, 2013 Share Posted December 18, 2013 I am currently reading Neal Stephenson's Snow Crash and in it this very topic was being discussed.It seems the Sumerians have them both beat and perhaps the Egytians also, probably some cross pollenation of ideas given the geography and timelines. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
moralist Posted December 18, 2013 Share Posted December 18, 2013 I am currently reading Neal Stephenson's Snow Crash and in it this very topic was being discussed. It seems the Sumerians have them both beat and perhaps the Egytians also, probably some cross pollenation of ideas given the geography and timelines. Absolutely. The reason these archetypes endure over time is because there are gems of truth within them. I wasn't implying that Moses was the original reference, only that he predated the Greeks by hundreds of years. Greg Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
moralist Posted December 18, 2013 Share Posted December 18, 2013 Greg What do you mean when you say "the design of DNA" ? What I mean by the design of DNA is that its form and function are the result of highly sophisticated and finely tuned laws. And how is that comparable to man made objects? Both DNA and man made machines (for example) are physical objects. So they obey all of the same well ordered physical laws which govern matter and energy. If you saw even the remains of a machine, rational common sense tells you that it was obviously designed by an intelligent mind. This is no less true of DNA which is a biological mechanism which is infinitely more advanced than anything man has ever made... ...because the Mind that made it also is. Greg Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brant Gaede Posted December 18, 2013 Share Posted December 18, 2013 It seems "God" could be a sub-atomic particle.--BrantI'm cutting off all conversation with Greg; I'll not sanction any more of this Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Michael Stuart Kelly Posted December 18, 2013 Share Posted December 18, 2013 It seems "God" could be a sub-atomic particle.Brant,Those who believe God is in everything believe that. Just like those who believe reality is in everything believe that.If you take the personification out of it, I often find it difficult to distinguish what some people mean by reality compared to what some mean by God.It seems more like semantics and choosing a team than actual concept to me.Michael Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Selene Posted December 18, 2013 Share Posted December 18, 2013 Snow Crash is Neal Stephenson's third novel, published in 1992. Like many of Stephenson's other novels it covers history, linguistics, anthropology, archaeology, religion, computer science, politics, cryptography, memetics and philosophy.Stephenson explained the title of the novel in his 1999 essay In the Beginning... was the Command Line as his term for a particular software failure mode on the early Apple Macintosh computer. Stephenson wrote about the Macintosh that "When the computer crashed and wrote gibberish into the bitmap, the result was something that looked vaguely like static on a broken television set—a 'snow crash' ".http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Snow_Crash Looks pretty interesting...Neal Stephenson's Snow Crash Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
moralist Posted December 18, 2013 Share Posted December 18, 2013 It seems "God" could be a sub-atomic particle. With God, size doesn't matter. --Brant I'm cutting off all conversation with Greg; I'll not sanction any more of this I truly enjoy your wit, Brant. Greg Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tmj Posted December 18, 2013 Share Posted December 18, 2013 GregWhat do you mean when you say "the design of DNA" ?What I mean by the design of DNA is that its form and function are the result of highly sophisticated and finely tuned laws.And how is that comparable to man made objects?Both DNA and man made machines (for example) are physical objects. So they obey all of the same well ordered physical laws which govern matter and energy. If you saw even the remains of a machine, rational common sense tells you that it was obviously designed by an intelligent mind.This is no less true of DNA which is a biological mechanism which is infinitely more advanced than anything man has ever made......because the Mind that made it also is. GregSo the argument really boils down to how /when to use/apply certain modifiers/phrases ie 'sophisticated' or 'finely tuned'. Add to that floating abstractions about form and function. I don't see it nor do I think or wish to change our view. But I think any deity worth its salt wouldn't have painted itself into such a tight corner , to get what it wants. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Selene Posted December 18, 2013 Share Posted December 18, 2013 Yeah, don't we all...However, like all of us, he has his half-witted days also....A...just making sure that I have a place to hide from that tomahawk... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tmj Posted December 18, 2013 Share Posted December 18, 2013 I hear lamb's blood works too, but you'll need a doorway, rules are rules Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Selene Posted December 18, 2013 Share Posted December 18, 2013 I hear lamb's blood works too, but you'll need a doorway, rules are rulesWow!Thanks...how could I forget that...A...were you able to see me leave? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Michael Stuart Kelly Posted December 18, 2013 Share Posted December 18, 2013 Snow Crash is Neal Stephenson's third novel, published in 1992. Like many of Stephenson's other novels it covers history, linguistics, anthropology, archaeology, religion, computer science, politics, cryptography, memetics and philosophy.Stephenson explained the title of the novel in his 1999 essay In the Beginning... was the Command Line as his term for a particular software failure mode on the early Apple Macintosh computer. Stephenson wrote about the Macintosh that "When the computer crashed and wrote gibberish into the bitmap, the result was something that looked vaguely like static on a broken television set—a 'snow crash' ".http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Snow_Crash Looks pretty interesting...Neal Stephenson's Snow CrashI just looked into Stephenson.Watched him speak in a YouTube video or two.I'm getting Snow Crash. It looks really good.Michael Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Selene Posted December 18, 2013 Share Posted December 18, 2013 Snow Crash is Neal Stephenson's third novel, published in 1992. Like many of Stephenson's other novels it covers history, linguistics, anthropology, archaeology, religion, computer science, politics, cryptography, memetics and philosophy.Stephenson explained the title of the novel in his 1999 essay In the Beginning... was the Command Line as his term for a particular software failure mode on the early Apple Macintosh computer. Stephenson wrote about the Macintosh that "When the computer crashed and wrote gibberish into the bitmap, the result was something that looked vaguely like static on a broken television set—a 'snow crash' ".http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Snow_Crash Looks pretty interesting...Neal Stephenson's Snow CrashI just looked into Stephenson.Watched him speak in a YouTube video or two.I'm getting Snow Crash. It looks really good.MichaelAgreed...sometimes I wish folks would just throw up a link on an artist/individual that they are reading/hearing, etc. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tmj Posted December 18, 2013 Share Posted December 18, 2013 Stephenson is a trip, I have been enjoying his books lately.It's weird , literally(well not really), my reading this thread and Snow Crash at the same time. The novel talks of DNA, the origin of the serpent in religious symbols, schorlarly queries into the authors of the Old Testament, somebody works in mysterious ways.. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
moralist Posted December 18, 2013 Share Posted December 18, 2013 Greg What do you mean when you say "the design of DNA" ? What I mean by the design of DNA is that its form and function are the result of highly sophisticated and finely tuned laws. And how is that comparable to man made objects? Both DNA and man made machines (for example) are physical objects. So they obey all of the same well ordered physical laws which govern matter and energy. If you saw even the remains of a machine, rational common sense tells you that it was obviously designed by an intelligent mind. This is no less true of DNA which is a biological mechanism which is infinitely more advanced than anything man has ever made... ...because the Mind that made it also is. GregSo the argument really boils down to how /when to use/apply certain modifiers/phrases ie 'sophisticated' or 'finely tuned'. No. It all comes down to your own personal freedom to deny the Intelligence behind the reality of the logical rational order of physical laws. Absolutely nothing coerced the choice you've already made, and its the one with which you will live and die just as you deserve. Greg Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Serapis Bey Posted December 18, 2013 Share Posted December 18, 2013 somebody works in mysterious ways..Thou hast just entered Chapel Perilous.(If you enjoy weird coincidences, check out Cosmic Trigger) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tmj Posted December 18, 2013 Share Posted December 18, 2013 somebody works in mysterious ways..Thou hast just entered Chapel Perilous.(If you enjoy weird coincidences, check out Cosmic Trigger)Can't , too scared, don't want a glimpse of what I may deserve. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Selene Posted December 18, 2013 Share Posted December 18, 2013 Thou hast just entered Chapel Perilous.(If you enjoy weird coincidences, check out Cosmic Trigger)Please, as soon as you got close you would be absorbed, or, vaporized.A...Mason and we know!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
moralist Posted December 18, 2013 Share Posted December 18, 2013 Stephenson is a trip, I have been enjoying his books lately. It's weird , literally(well not really), my reading this thread and Snow Crash at the same time. The novel talks of DNA, the origin of the serpent in religious symbols, schorlarly queries into the authors of the Old Testament, somebody works in mysterious ways.. As a matter of course the synchronicities in the flow of events reveal themselves when you're right where you're supposed to be in relation to that flow. Greg Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tmj Posted December 18, 2013 Share Posted December 18, 2013 Stephenson is a trip, I have been enjoying his books lately.It's weird , literally(well not really), my reading this thread and Snow Crash at the same time. The novel talks of DNA, the origin of the serpent in religious symbols, schorlarly queries into the authors of the Old Testament, somebody works in mysterious ways..As a matter of course the synchronicities in the flow of events reveal themselves when you're right where you're supposed to be in relation to that flow. :smile:GregI know, that's what weird means Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
moralist Posted December 18, 2013 Share Posted December 18, 2013 Stephenson is a trip, I have been enjoying his books lately.It's weird , literally(well not really), my reading this thread and Snow Crash at the same time. The novel talks of DNA, the origin of the serpent in religious symbols, schorlarly queries into the authors of the Old Testament, somebody works in mysterious ways..As a matter of course the synchronicities in the flow of events reveal themselves when you're right where you're supposed to be in relation to that flow. :smile:GregI know, that's what weird means After a while weird becomes normal when you get used to it by following one synchronicity that leads to another. Greg Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Serapis Bey Posted December 18, 2013 Share Posted December 18, 2013 Stephenson is a trip, I have been enjoying his books lately.It's weird , literally(well not really), my reading this thread and Snow Crash at the same time. The novel talks of DNA, the origin of the serpent in religious symbols, schorlarly queries into the authors of the Old Testament, somebody works in mysterious ways..As a matter of course the synchronicities in the flow of events reveal themselves when you're right where you're supposed to be in relation to that flow. :smile:GregI know, that's what weird meansAfter a while weird becomes normal when you get used to it by following one synchronicity that leads to another.GregIt's true, tmj -- "Everything you fear is waiting with slavering jaws in Chapel Perilous, but if you are armed with the wand of intuition, the cup of sympathy, the sword of reason, and the pentacle of valor, you will find there (the legends say) the Medicine of Metals, the Elixir of Life, the Philosopher's Stone, True Wisdom and Perfect Happiness." Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tmj Posted December 18, 2013 Share Posted December 18, 2013 How could fate be anything but normal, if you endorse such a concept then things that were not weird would be strange. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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