ginny

She found moral purpose in everything. I think she took whatever she personally liked and called moral. Whatever she didn't like, she called immoral. I'll say one thing. She got me to hate the word moral because she devoided it of all meaning. About a year ago, some of her faithfulls at OO had a thread asking, Which is more moral, vanilla or chocolate ice cream? You can't make that stuff up! I'm not sure who won, but I know I'm in eternal purgatory for wanting coffee ice cream. Once you place Hitler and chocolate ice cream in the same moral realm, the game is over. Rand would sayonce you place Hugo and Danielle Steele in the same realm, you destroy literature. I say thank god for Hugo,and if you don't like Steele (I don't), don't read her but defend her right to do what she wants.

"What I was actually imagining, and literally feeling a shudder at the prospect, when that analogy popped into my head, was Objectivists analyzing Rebecca. " That's just vile. Wash you mind out with soap..

Sure but where had she lain before lying?

If Carol knows about it, it's probably illegal. Best to let the matter lay and leave it lying.

Jonathan, since when did buying a CD involve morality in the first place. Ayn, if we are to use her as the standard (I don't) paid to hear that Towhey wanna-be because she thought it was worth her while. Was that - dare I say it - immoral? There may be a perfectly good reason for someone to buy that Cop CD or any other damned CD and as far as I am concerned, explanations are owed to NOBODY. The word moral as been f**ed around to the point it is totally worthless.

Cute, Baal. Does that imply that people aren't (and I don't think they should be) as consistent as Rand would have liked?

WTL movie is so good, it makes The Fountainhead a non-starter. And don't get me started on AS. WTL is close to cinematic genius.

And the movie so lived up to the book. They had real actors in those days. Mrs. D. still gives me the chills. And for a small part, the actress playing Mrs. van Hopper took over the screen. The only difference between book and movie is that the book has an epilogue with Mr. and Mrs. de Winters years later in Paris, living a quiet life.

I'm familiar with the fact that Rand didn't like Wolfe and the fact that Barbara did millade her literary-challenged. I mentioned to Cathy how nice Rand seemed. Poor Cathy seemed disappointed and mad, but I wasn't expecting such an interest and generosity in Frank's family. Yeah, I suspect she thought Atlas Shrugged would be the best thing since bread. When there was opposition, it crushed her. The bitterness (especially for a narcissist like her) had to be unbearable. Damn, I wish Barbara would work on one of the other two books. We all know she did the original Efficient Thinking lectures. Personally, I had some problems with them and feel they could benefit from editing. Still, I wish she'd branch out of the old Obj. stuff. She can do better. I'd like to see her create something new (like a work of fiction) and I think she could.

Ellen. I think a lot of her talent might never be known. Is she still still working on that non-fiction book? Sounds like it's been over a decade. Free will, blah blah, I still think Rand crushed a few souls.

WhyNot - no, no,I wasn't blaming AR. Not in the least. I have met writers of the Obj. pursuasion who can really write, but they'll never sell many books. It's a shame. Personally, I have always felt that is what happened to Barbara. Damn, we know the woman can write. Yet she never did any fiction and only one non-fiction. I could be wrong, but truly, don't think so. Oh, I know Barbara sold books; that's not what I meant.

Brant, amen, brother. I shudder at the thought of how many so-called objectivist writers have ruined themselves by trying to create an 'objectivist' world and hero, then becoming paralized. I have to give credit to Peikoff's daughter who is working on her second book without any apparent qualms. Interestingly, she doesn't seem to qualify as an objectivists writer as far as I can tell. GOOD FOR HER!!

Cathy, sorry you are angry at Ayn. Actually, when I read the letters, I was in a state of shock just how generous she could be. I hadn't expected that. The $25.00 bit is ridiculous, but that was her. Taking money from her relatives then lecturing the poor girl about how to live her life was typial Ayn. There's a funny (to me) scene in Atlas Shrugged when the hero and heroine need a car. One of their millionaire friends offers them a rental car for 25 cents in gold/. The heroine is appalled. You're going to charge 25 cents? Then she gets a little lecture about nothing being free. I could be wrong, but her Russian background might play into this. When you live in poverty after losing all, the way Ayn did,every dollar becomes something precious. My mother lived through the war in Germany. When we got here, she would squeeze a buffalo nicket until it howled. Giving away anything didn't happen. Ayn might have some of that same mindset. So, sending $25.00 might have been a big deal. But, at least she did. To tell the truth, she could be nicer than I ever gave her credit for. Thanks for the letters, Ellen.

J, isn't one's own emotional response a part of what we find beautiful. Take the infamous Piers Morgan. When he was a judge on that talent show, I was seriously crushing. The man was beautiful and his accent sheer magnetism! Then got his own show and opened his mouth for real. Now, I find him about as attractive as my old smelly sneakers. What makes us respond, btw, is a different story.

Cathy - definitely extremely narcissistic. All part of the I'm for me and only me attitude. By the way, there's no way she could have gone back to Russia. She died before the regime fell. The Communists would probably have grabbed her, even though she was an Amirican citizen. She was aware of the danger. Feel free to ask any questions. Obj's just love to lecture to a hot potential convert. Fresh meat! Besides, the more you understand Aunt Alice, the better you will probably understand Uncle Frank. You know, I just remembered. They were at one of the lectures one time. I think Frank's mind was already going. Ayn had the usual thunder in her eyes following a thunder and lightning question and answer period. Frank just smiled at passers-by, looking a bit uncomfortable and maybe embarrassed. I suspect as his mind went, so did the memories of good times he had with her.

Lord, yes. I think a life surrounded by yes-people ruined her quite a bit. Of course, she demanded yes-people. Catch-twenty two. She was so full of two-sides. She admired beauty and feminity, and that was the one thing she didn't have. She wanted individualists, but drove them away. So, so sad.

Do you mind if I ask a question. Do you and the other two stooges have any purpose here other than to argue amongst yourselves? You couldn't call what your doing an exchange of ideas. Do you follow each other from site to site? I mean, you're funny, but is that your only purpose?

Sounds beautiful, Ellen. I wonder whether Obj's don't really appreciate nature, since it's natural instead of artificial and manmade. Some hangovers from Dagny rejoicing in the beauty of a billboard. I think nature has a beauty of its own that doesn't require explanation.

Ellen, you may be right. I was positive it was NB, but maybe it was Allan. Anyway, it seems like an accurate statement. Explains some things.

I look back on things now...not out of a child's eye, but my adult eye, and my perspective is so different now. When my family would say "the world according to Alice" I don't think it was about her great philosophies, as much as Aunt Alice's world. What I mean is, her philosophy was to benefit herself...not so much others. Remember what was said about the cousin and the coat? My Aunt Agnes said according to Aunt Alice...everyone should say what the mean, and mean what they say...except Aunt Alice. My family already knew way back then that her rules of philosophy only applied when it came to her. Your right...she would have hit the roof if Uncle Frank had an affair! So far I think a lot of her philosophies are a good way to think as long as you already have value and morals instilled in your personality. I hope I'm making sense. I didn't hear about her using all the hot water and keeping them up at night...but she should have given the coat, not so much because of her staying with them, but because she had promised it. Branden may have been her intellectual, but Uncle Frank was her anchor, it was pretty easy for her to replace Branden with Peikoff (intellectually)but she was smart enough to know she would never find another Frank. ~Cathy~Cathy, your statement about Ayn's philosophy being for her is interesting. Nathanial Branden once said that Ayn came up with her entire philosophy in order to understand herself - words to that effect. That might explain a lot.

I look back on things now...not out of a child's eye, but my adult eye, and my perspective is so different now. When my family would say "the world according to Alice" I don't think it was about her great philosophies, as much as Aunt Alice's world. What I mean is, her philosophy was to benefit herself...not so much others. Remember what was said about the cousin and the coat? My Aunt Agnes said according to Aunt Alice...everyone should say what the mean, and mean what they say...except Aunt Alice. My family already knew way back then that her rules of philosophy only applied when it came to her. Your right...she would have hit the roof if Uncle Frank had an affair! So far I think a lot of her philosophies are a good way to think as long as you already have value and morals instilled in your personality. I hope I'm making sense. I didn't hear about her using all the hot water and keeping them up at night...but she should have given the coat, not so much because of her staying with them, but because she had promised it. Branden may have been her intellectual, but Uncle Frank was her anchor, it was pretty easy for her to replace Branden with Peikoff (intellectually)but she was smart enough to know she would never find another Frank. ~Cathy~Cathy, your statement about Ayn's philosophy being for her is interesting. Nathanial Branden once said that Ayn came up with her entire philosophy in order to understand herself - words to that effect. That might explain a lot.

Bingo on logic. Altruism - it's when YOU GIVE your food to someone when you or your kids are starving. oing for others is your ultimate goal. Another word is sacrifice, another bad word. The problem is that the dictionary give the meaning of sacrificing you value as well as sacrificing something not of high value. That's where the confusion comes in. Obectivists have a bunch of treads arguing this one. Same with selfishness. That's a good word. But selfish can mean so many things. For her,, hurting other people and having an affair was selfish - good. Yet the person next door who plays his music so loud is also looking out for himself and being selfish. Is that a good thing? Matter of fact, not sure if you know, but Rand herself really did make a nuisane of herself with her relatives in Chicago by using most of the hot water and typing into the night when the rest wanted to sleep. She's looking out for herself. I'd give her kick her rear and toss her out. BTW, you said the family argument was over a fur coat. After was the relatives put up with, I can see why they might be irritated at a broken promise. Anyway she was selfish and considered it good. I don't. Why? What does a selfish person do when someone is being selfish? (example, what would she have said if her husband wanted as affair. God knows she went crazy when Branden did.) Selfish is a two way street. This is probably my absolute main and biggest problem with Aunt Alice. Maybe she was arrogant enough to think she could improve on Webster's Dictionary, but it causes a lot of confusion.

objectivism - Ayn Rand's philosophy of reason. You didn't capitalize the word. In certain circles, you just got tied back to the stake. By reason she means not to use faith, but logic, i.e., anything you can prove. Faith - bad word. Altruism - When you give something and get a lesser item (value) in return. That's why that food example was important. If you give your food to someone who has less value for you than someone else, Rand will call you altruistic. Bad word. This gets complicated because to the rest of the world, altruism is a good thing.

"Why is the grass green?" Lord, no, I can't imagine her answering that. I think I know why. She didn't like, or maybe hated, anything that was ambiguous. Something was black or white but nothing was gray. There are probably technical reason for the green color, but if she didn't know them, naw, she wasn't about to get into a hypethetical discussion for kids. I can't see her. Frank, I think, would have weaven a lovely story about green grass. I love her correcting your language. Yep, she was precise, all right. "Hey you" wouln't be considered rational or polite. As for disrepect, have you come across any video where she argues with a member of the audience? There's a famous one where someone said something that upset her. She stopped that person within 10 words and ripped into her for being disrespectul and insulting. I didn't think there was anything wrong with the question. I thnk it's only within the last few years or maybe one year where Peikoff made the important and official statement that it was quite all right to refer to her as Ayn without being disrespectful.

Jonathan, Objectivism would have made 10 times the inroad it has today if there were more O's like you. Damn, get thee to a clonery.