ginny

Tony, yes, this is the first I've heard of this (I live a sheltered existence). And I think your last paragraph is right on. By no means was I trying to say she didn't offer tremendous value. I'm just saying her thinking could get screwed. I think everyone but Peikoff and buddy Harry (is it former buddy these days?) can agree to that. (And you don't have to answer my question. I think I know the answer.) Ginny

We agree Bob-Mac. I don't know why, but this discussion reminds of when I was a youn' un, walking the streets of Boston. It was just before Christmas, and the street was crowded. All of a sudden, I'm facing to BIG guys beating up on each other. (I'm 5 feet). Without thinking, I grabbed one of the guys and told him to "Stop hitting him!" He lifted me high in the air and tossed me against a store window (ouch!!) Then he yelled, "I'm a police officer. Go away." And away I went! Sure, I made an error in judgment, but it seems that helping someone in need comes kind of instinctually to some. I was black and blue, but not really sorry. However, I haven't interfered in any fights since!

Let me ask you guys something: if you had a 23 year old neighbor who thought Bundy was real cute and should be lauded for never apologizing for his killings. What would your opinion be? Are you judging AR differently? Does, in your mind, the fact that she wrote some fabulous books exempt her? I'm curious. Ginny

WE The Living is my absolute favorite. But -- could you be referring to the now deleted section where she's talking about the blood of people being spilled by those that can - just because they can? Don't mean to be picky, Brand, but this narcissictic streak obviously bugs me.

The theme of what the "obligation" to help others is seems to be recurring on Objectivist forums. Why is it so hard to understand that other people, simply because they are alive, are a value. If we can offer help, we should. Why not help? I'd accept help (and I've asked for it) when needed; I've given help. Unless there is a good reason, the question strikes me as absurd. I don't view it as an obligation; more like good manners. Ginny

Brant, Tony - you're painting AR so naive as to border stupidity. Stupid the woman never was. Even the dullest member of Main Street would have a better understanding of a viscious killer. Is that what you're saying?

Baal, I know you describe yourself as literal minded, but I think you just hit on something quite unexpected. Hickman's looks. Rand was clearly infatuated by a certain look in men. I'll bet anything this guy was a hunk. ---- I just googled the guy and found a picture. Yep, he awfully good-looking. Why am I not surprised.

I have always thoughts that a good remake of We The Living would be the best thing before doing AS. It would be shorter and clearer with a terrific plotand pave the way for an interested public.

C'mon Adam, The Magnificent Seven isn't the same as raping and chopping up a twelve year old. You know that. Ginny

Hmmm - I see a Cougar Committee (I'm sure Barbara would love to chair) to check the eligibility of the men. I mean really, what exactly are your qualifications?

My situation may not be a deserted island, but there are similarities. Since losing my job, I've been writing. I MUST write to get an income. That's pretty solitary. Every single day I have to make the decision whether to write, whether to goof off, whether to do other things. If morals means doing to right thing (I guess ethics does, too), it's something that has to guide me each day, much more so than if I were in an office and doing what the boss tells me to. There might be something to this morals on a deserted island thing.

Agreed, Adam. I know that a large part of my anger at this is hurt disappointment. If this lady was really so f@#$%ing smart, she should have seen a few things more clearly. There's got to be something psychopatic about such tunnel vision. Well, I'm taking her at her word. "Judge, and be prepared to be judged." I'm judging, goddam it. Ginny Living near Main Street and pissed as hell.

Rich, would you please not discriminate against females who are a few years (hell - decades) beyond nubile? There are many of us and we'll come back to get you kicked out of the cult. There's no life outside the cult. Ginny

Adam, I'm sorry, but "unbowed and unrepentent" ... so's every inmate in the prison system. They're all above common rules. They do as they please. I know I'm being real intrangisent here, but when I think of all the people who've tried so hard to live up to the AR ideal (I know, their problem), and the young Ayn ideal is Hickman, I can't accept it. Sure, she grew up and matured her outlook, but I remember the portion of (can't remember if it's NB or BB's) book, when an audience member asks about a sexual threesome or something like that. Her response: That's nothing that you (the common herd, unwashed audience that's come to hear her) to worry about. To pull it off, it would take giants. Even at an old age, she thought of herself as a giant above the rules. She was a fantastic writer, okay, a giant of a writer; that does NOT make her above the rules. I can accept rule-breaking; I can't accept calling normal people who quietly live their lives the best they can on "Main Street" evil.

Jonathan - all I can say is, Amen.

I'm sorry, but the Hickman story bothers me more than it seems other people here. Rand may have hated the "ordinary" person (I don't know if that's the right phrase) for not being outstanding and leading ordinary lives, but to glorify a nasty killer for doing something out of the ordinary and with a positive attitute at that strikes me a bad. If this were an isolated musing, I'd be okay with it, but there's the section in We The Living where she discusses the uselessness of the masses and how it's okay for those who can to spill their blood. I won't even get into the whole "rape" thing and the whole affair thing involving starstruck people who couldn't handle it, but there's something off and narcissistic here. I know Barbara keeps saying that AR was a terrific person, and on a level, I believe she was, but I've respected this woman my adult life, and this doesn't compute in my brain. And no, I don't think it's unfair for people to judge her negatively on this. God knows, she judged harshly enough. Sorry, I seem to be a bit pissed off.

Brant, you said the same as I did but so much more politely. I shouldn't have sunk to the point of rudeness. Thanks for the lesson. Guess I'm not always the lady mother raised.

Unfortunately, Phil is like a needy three-year old. He wants attention, or else he'll throw a tantrum and threatens to run away from home. Problem is, he never runs away. He keeps staying and telling others were they are wrong.

Reidy, it's nice to see someone familiar with The Country Wife. When I was acting in NY, I played her lady's maid. It was the only play I was ever where I had the stage to myself and a nice piece of dialogue. The husband/eunuch was played by a latin-type who brought down the house each night. Nice memories.

Fair enough. You keep making these public announcements, so I was just curious.

Philip, this isn't the first time you've whined about stepping back from OL because because people aren't responding to your liking. The last time I believe you complained that people here weren't intellectual enough for someone like you. Is there any chance you'll actually keep your word or is this another whine? Ginny

Adam, why are you apologizing? If anyone belongs in Plato's cave ... Ginny

I worked in advertising for years. It's impossible to get on ad out without client approval. Period.

Wait a minute. By ethical, do you mean legal and proper or honest? Just realized there's a big difference. Yes to the first, frigging no to the second.

Adam, unfortunately, in my opinion, this ad is revolting, but yet, it's ethical. Maybe a thing can be both. The purpose of an ad is to attract attention, be memorable and make a point. This ad qualifies as it compares the deliberate destruction of men with the deliberate destruction of animals and trees. Regrettably, to the WWF, it's one and the same. On the plus side, this might make some supporters of WWF think again. God, those people are worse than scum. But they have a good ad agency.