dougplumb

So Chris, you can't really be objective when it becomes difficult. You must resort to insult. There is nothing that I have listed that [a] Thousands or hundreds of thousands, sometime millions of people do not share the belief. There is not ample evidence, often outright admitted to by governments. You must know that man made global warming is a hoax. If they would do this to collect carbon taxes, what wouldn't they do ?

When I read the exerpt from State Of Fear in this thread I felt it necessary to post a link that is very complimentary to what was said in this passage. The Report From Iron Mountain was widely discredited when it was first released. Now, 45 or so years later it can only be seen to be obviously true. Environmentalism, wars and the need for a unifying force in humanity is all explained in this short 80 +/- page document. Its easy to find the full text of this report on Google. Here is one link for it in PDF. There are a few versions in various formats. http://www.projectcamelot.org/Report_from_Iron_Mountain.pdf Its the single most interesting thing I have ever seen. Everything in here is real now, even the holograms (see Project Blue Beam by doing a search)

Dr. Stan Monteith of radioliberty.com has some excellent interviews with other doctors on fluoride. I suggest you just stick with other doctors as well as toxicologists who have looked at this in great detail and can explain it in a way that other doctors can know where to look further better than non doctors. I am no expert in fluoridation, I am expert on 9/11. Thanks for trying to be so objective. I do not believe that human beings can be objective. I think Ayn Rand is right on, so I am trying to see if I can prove her wrong in the practical sense. My hypothesis is that humans cannot be truly objective when they are comfortable.

I'll look at your response tomorrow. If you are on your PC tonight, check out: http://www.patriotsquestion911.com/ http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=35...&q=fluoride http://www.theforbiddenknowledge.com/hardt...luoridation.htm

wrt Dresden, why was Rockefeller permitted to fund both sides of the war ? If you invited me over to your place then one day left a 10 dollar bill on your counter on purpose to see if I was a thief, then the 10 bucks was gone, could I say to you - "but you don't know that I stole anything on those other 13 days", so am I a thief or not ? If just one of those things I list is true then USA is a bad country. There is very strong evidence and piles of public supporters that believes any one of those things are true. We could debate Dresden from now until next Tuesday, neither one of us were there and the evidence is long gone, wiki lies all the time. Both of us would be pissing in the wind and neither one would be convinced of the others opinion. What we can do is debate fluoride, 9/11, the OKC bombings, The Finders report, Afghanistan drug trade...anything more recent where the trail may be a little hotter. You saying "start with the fact that America is a good country" is not objectivist thinking. BTW: I have had enough people tell me to go see a psychiatrist regarding all this stuff. I did. He said I was fine (a real prescribing psyc that didn't prescribe anything for me), he complimented me on my awareness and did say that he did not believe ALL of the things I was saying were true. Naturally doctors have a little trouble with the vaccines. Check out Dr. Stan Monteith, Dr. Rima Laibow.

"They were not killed by my government and if they were, I would want to hunt down and kill each and every one of those involved." Its been proven that the fires and airplanes did not collapse the buildings. Its easy to see this. I can prove this. There is a strong circumstantial evidence that the US gov did 9/11. Check out Patriots for 9/11 truth - see who agrees with me. You will be impressed by this list. Check out the military section..., engineers section, physics section... Check out www.ae911truth.org This is being hidden from you.

Selene: "America is a good and great country." Have you ever heard of major General Smedley Butler ? Butler was supposed to do the same thing to America that Hitler was doing in Germany. You can find lots of info on Butler on the web. Butler came out and refused- it was broadacst on TV, you can find it on You-Tube. Funmny how history students haven't heard this. Anything on that list can be easily researched on the web. Look into Fluoride - its diabolical. Once you learn about sodium fluoride then everything else pales in comparison. Do a search for "The Finders". I have the PDF file report on satanic child molestation and environmentalism from Ted Gunderson (ex FBI head of 800 agents), I can send it to you. Canada is one of the top destinations for pedophiles - #3 on the UN website. Canada is the USA, we are under the North American Union. Politicians and borders are made for TV. Please don't tell me you are a doctor and you know that fluoride is safe. Have you heard of Major Jordans Diaries ? Why is it that all officers from all countries have similar uniforms - stars on them ? If America is so good, why is it that they allow the Rockefellers to profit from both sides of WW2 ? Americans are good people, Canadians are good people. But Canada inc. and the USA inc are far from good countries. They are examples of what happens when business and government unite. The wars were excuses to build up the police state. War changes a country more in 5 years than 50 years of peace - Carrol Quigley. Ever heard of Anthony Suttons book "The Best Enemy Money Can Buy" ? This whole thing is like a map, find a map with a big country written across it then tell someone to look at the map and find a small town with that name without telling them the name of the country - they will not find the name because its too big and right in front of them. Same with what is happening wrt world government. Its been in place since the late 40's early 50's as the UN.

Chris: "I am reminded of what George "Bugs" Moran said after the St Valentine's Day Massacre only Capone kills like that. I would make the same statement about 9-11 only changing the name to Bin Laden." You have to be seriously kidding here. We killed like that in World War 2 - innocent German populations in Dresden while Rockefeller sold the Germans oil and gave them synthetic rubber. David Rockefeller was in the war fighting for our side until he was suddenly called back to Washington before his entire unit was wiped out. This was in his auto-biography. He also admits to contributing to the "New World Order" in his autobiography. As far as "killing like that" Think about this: a. burning civilians alive with white phosphorus in Iraq b. fluoridated water c. vaccines (many doctors say the purpose of vaccines is depopulation) d. ritualistic/satanic child sacrifices. (challenge me on this one) e. killing innocent Afghans to further the drug trade f. experimenting on US veterans (Tuskegey experiments) g. the war in the Congo that no one knows about h. the war in Haiti - what did they ever do to us ? i. anthrax killings after 9/11 to scare congress into signing the Patriot Act (supposedly) j. the various witnesses to the Kennedy assassinations died in disproportional numbers - usually be vehicular homicide. That is how they like to assassinate people - real messy. ...it sickens me to go on but I could go all the way to z then count from 0 to 10 They are going to kill you too Chris. It doesn't matter how much you want to support them and love them and worship them. The Stalinist purges had everyone below colonel exterminated. You are obviously in the military or police to buy the propaganda to that extent.

"I would point out on 9-11 that Bin Laden took credit for 9-11" Bin Laden made the statement that he had no involvement about 3 weeks after the incident, then a while after that some guy that doesn't even look like bin Laden (look at the nose) was recorded with a camcorder and later broadcast on CNN. Somehow they lost the audio. The claim is that this was bin Laden talking about 9/11. I say it was some random Arab talking about what they were to have dinner that night. I have just as much evidence as they do in supporting my claim. Zip.

Chris Grieb: "Oswald acted alone. Look at Vincent Bugolisi's book if you can read." This kind of remark is typical from establishment story supporters. They always resort to insults and that has been my experience arguing about these things on the web for years. Its standard practice for establishment version supporters. There is just no way the secret police would not keep a sharp shooter on an open window as the presidents motorcade drove by. Policy was to make sure all windows were shut to prevent assassinations. The whole official version of the Kennedy assassination is as rediculous as the one for the OKC bombing, 9/11 and the USS Cole. They fall apart at first glance. Yeah - security would allow an unmarked, unknown vehicle to park beside a war ship. As far as Bugolisi's book goes, I won't buy it. I'll look at it if someone gives it to me and getting it requires an absolute zero effort on my part. I bought the 9/11 commission book and actually read the first 30 or so pages of it before I was sickened by the nonsense and fairy tale about the terrorist mastermind Usama Bin Laden. Does anyone seriously think this government is putting cameras up all over the place including in the bathrooms of little boys and little girls in their schools to protect us from a terrorist mastermind ? No, its about humiliation. Humiliation is used to break the people and make them easier to rule. That is why the official version stories are so laughable - they don't even try to make their story sound real. A book called Political Ponerology explains how this humiliation results in physical side effects on the brain that retard logical thought.

I never did look into the Kennedy assassination in any depth, but I did look into the OKC bombing in some depth and studied 9/11 in great depth. I believe the story given wrt OKC and 9/11 are pure fabrications. No one has come up with a complete theory on how the buildings collapsed on 9/11, but they didn't fall from fires and structural damage from the planes. This is obvious from the evidence and past experience with fires at the WTC buildings. Unexploded bombs were in the OKC building and this was reported on local news that never made CNN (communist news network). See Alex Jones movie "9/11 Road To Tyranny" to see the footage of this. Its on Google video. We should open a thread for these discussions IMO. As far as Kennedy goes, I understood that 3 shots could be fired, but not aimed in that time period.

"Daniel Pearl" He was dead when they decapitated him - no gushing blood during the decaptitation. Decapitiations involve streams of blood shooting 20 feet or so. There is no reason to believe those people were anyone - their faces were covered.

"I think I will start a new thread later on "conspiracy theories" which will be inclusive of the 911/Kennedy - all three ??/and we can throw in the alleged pharmaceutical conspiracy that our new member Doug mentioned." This would be great. A thread on Sustainable Development (another conspiracy) would be great too. So would Overpopulation....Oh no - you are going to get me going !

The house committee on the Kennedy Assassination concluded that this was a probable conspiracy. The gun used could not have squeezed off that many shots that accurately in the allotted time. This has been shown by Jim Marrs. I don't read conspiracy books and prefer to look at the evidence on my own without an authors slant on things. There was a tree in the way of the line of sight for the shot. Kennedies route was changed at the last minute. Unusual lax security measures were in place because of the change in route. Kennedy was to print government notes rather than Fed notes (4 billion worth). This would be the motivation for the assassination as is often said to be the motive. The bankers are always associated with these assassinations. There are some great quotes given by bankers and past presidents regarding the private creation of fiat money. The money is based on the good faith of the US citizenry and their ability to work for it. Why should it be created by private banks ? There is no reason for private banks creating fiat currency. As far as 9/11 goes, check out ae911truth.org. I have started and participated in many very long 9/11 threads on discussion groups. I would be very happy to start one here, I'm afraid it would be off topic. The popular mechanics book does not address the main issues of 9/11 conspiracies. It is full of what we call "straw man arguements" - PM creates an argument, says we are making that argument then debunks that arguement and says that they have debunked 9/11 conspiracy theories. If you name one of their points, I will go through it and explain what they are doing.

My Illustration Of Socialism: A socialist is someone who taxes a population to put cameras in the bathrooms of little girls and little boys. This is done not to watch them pee but so that the rest of the population believes that the government officials want to watch children pee. In reality it is done to humiliate the rest of the population. Humiliation is done to break the will and spirit of the population so that they can be more easily ruled and robbed. (There have been cases in the USA where cameras have been placed in the stalls of public schools) Socialism was brought to us by the Robber Barons who funded Marx. There is nothing wrong with capitalism but people like the Rockefellers took it much further than capitalism. Quigley writes in his famous book "Tragedy & Hope" that John D. blew up (with bombs), bribed or bought off all the cancer clinics in the USA. This was done to further the goals of big pharma. Today one in three people die of cancer. In the 70's it was 1 in 30. Cancer is a big money maker. Business and government should be separate entities, just as Rand says. It is an absolute necessity. Anyone who likes Socialism should read this (from Rense.com) ************ The Communist Takeover Of America - 45 Declared Goals From Greg Swank 12-4-2 You are about to read a list of 45 goals that found their way down the halls of our great Capitol back in 1963. As you read this, 39 years later, you should be shocked by the events that have played themselves out. I first ran across this list 3 years ago but was unable to attain a copy and it has bothered me ever since. Recently, Jeff Rense posted it on his site and I would like to thank him for doing so. http://www.rense.com Communist Goals (1963) Congressional Record--Appendix, pp. A34-A35 January 10, 1963 Current Communist Goals EXTENSION OF REMARKS OF HON. A. S. HERLONG, JR. OF FLORIDA IN THE HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES Thursday, January 10, 1963 . Mr. HERLONG. Mr. Speaker, Mrs. Patricia Nordman of De Land, Fla., is an ardent and articulate opponent of communism, and until recently published the De Land Courier, which she dedicated to the purpose of alerting the public to the dangers of communism in America. At Mrs. Nordman's request, I include in the RECORD, under unanimous consent, the following "Current Communist Goals," which she identifies as an excerpt from "The Naked Communist," by Cleon Skousen: [From "The Naked Communist," by Cleon Skousen] 1. U.S. acceptance of coexistence as the only alternative to atomic war. 2. U.S. willingness to capitulate in preference to engaging in atomic war. 3. Develop the illusion that total disarmament [by] the United States would be a demonstration of moral strength. 4. Permit free trade between all nations regardless of Communist affiliation and regardless of whether or not items could be used for war. 5. Extension of long-term loans to Russia and Soviet satellites. 6. Provide American aid to all nations regardless of Communist domination. 7. Grant recognition of Red China. Admission of Red China to the U.N. 8. Set up East and West Germany as separate states in spite of Khrushchev's promise in 1955 to settle the German question by free elections under supervision of the U.N. 9. Prolong the conferences to ban atomic tests because the United States has agreed to suspend tests as long as negotiations are in progress. 10. Allow all Soviet satellites individual representation in the U.N. 11. Promote the U.N. as the only hope for mankind. If its charter is rewritten, demand that it be set up as a one-world government with its own independent armed forces. (Some Communist leaders believe the world can be taken over as easily by the U.N. as by Moscow. Sometimes these two centers compete with each other as they are now doing in the Congo.) 12. Resist any attempt to outlaw the Communist Party. 13. Do away with all loyalty oaths. 14. Continue giving Russia access to the U.S. Patent Office. 15. Capture one or both of the political parties in the United States. 16. Use technical decisions of the courts to weaken basic American institutions by claiming their activities violate civil rights. 17. Get control of the schools. Use them as transmission belts for socialism and current Communist propaganda. Soften the curriculum. Get control of teachers' associations. Put the party line in textbooks. 18. Gain control of all student newspapers. 19. Use student riots to foment public protests against programs or organizations which are under Communist attack. 20. Infiltrate the press. Get control of book-review assignments, editorial writing, policy-making positions. 21. Gain control of key positions in radio, TV, and motion pictures. 22. Continue discrediting American culture by degrading all forms of artistic expression. An American Communist cell was told to "eliminate all good sculpture from parks and buildings, substitute shapeless, awkward and meaningless forms." 23. Control art critics and directors of art museums. "Our plan is to promote ugliness, repulsive, meaningless art." 24. Eliminate all laws governing obscenity by calling them "censorship" and a violation of free speech and free press. 25. Break down cultural standards of morality by promoting pornography and obscenity in books, magazines, motion pictures, radio, and TV. 26. Present homosexuality, degeneracy and promiscuity as "normal, natural, healthy." 27. Infiltrate the churches and replace revealed religion with "social" religion. Discredit the Bible and emphasize the need for intellectual maturity, which does not need a "religious crutch." 28. Eliminate prayer or any phase of religious expression in the schools on the ground that it violates the principle of "separation of church and state." 29. Discredit the American Constitution by calling it inadequate, old-fashioned, out of step with modern needs, a hindrance to cooperation between nations on a worldwide basis. 30. Discredit the American Founding Fathers. Present them as selfish aristocrats who had no concern for the "common man." 31. Belittle all forms of American culture and discourage the teaching of American history on the ground that it was only a minor part of the "big picture." Give more emphasis to Russian history since the Communists took over. 32. Support any socialist movement to give centralized control over any part of the culture--education, social agencies, welfare programs, mental health clinics, etc. 33. Eliminate all laws or procedures which interfere with the operation of the Communist apparatus. 34. Eliminate the House Committee on Un-American Activities. 35. Discredit and eventually dismantle the FBI. 36. Infiltrate and gain control of more unions. 37. Infiltrate and gain control of big business. 38. Transfer some of the powers of arrest from the police to social agencies. Treat all behavioral problems as psychiatric disorders which no one but psychiatrists can understand [or treat]. 39. Dominate the psychiatric profession and use mental health laws as a means of gaining coercive control over those who oppose Communist goals. 40. Discredit the family as an institution. Encourage promiscuity and easy divorce. 41. Emphasize the need to raise children away from the negative influence of parents. Attribute prejudices, mental blocks and retarding of children to suppressive influence of parents. 42. Create the impression that violence and insurrection are legitimate aspects of the American tradition; that students and special-interest groups should rise up and use ["]united force["] to solve economic, political or social problems. 43. Overthrow all colonial governments before native populations are ready for self-government. 44. Internationalize the Panama Canal. 45. Repeal the Connally reservation so the United States cannot prevent the World Court from seizing jurisdiction [over domestic problems. Give the World Court jurisdiction] over nations and individuals alike. Note by Webmaster: The Congressional Record back this far has not be digitized and posted on the Internet. It will probably be available at your nearest library that is a federal repository. Call them and ask them. Your college library is probably a repository. This is an excellent source of government records. Another source are your Congress Critters. They should be more than happy to help you in this matter. You will find the Ten Planks of the Communist Manifesto interesting at this point. Webmaster Forest Glen Durland found the document in the library. Sources are listed below. Microfilm: California State University at San Jose Clark Library, Government Floor Phone (408)924-2770 Microfilm Call Number: J 11.R5 Congressional Record, Vol. 109 88th Congress, 1st Session Appendix Pages A1-A2842 Jan. 9-May 7, 1963 Reel 12 1963- The Year That Changed America By Greg Swank 12-4-2 Over the years, I have shared in debates and discussions regarding the current state of affairs in the U.S., and the changing social climate of this great nation. Since the "baby-boomer" generation, society and its culture have become noticeably different than the way it was 50 years ago. From the late 50's to the 70's a series of events took place contributing to the way we are currently living. However, like anything else, there has to be a starting point at which the wheels are put into motion. Sometimes it can be a single event, such as war, but more often, it is a series of events, some intentional, some planned, others unpredictable. There is always a pivotal point when things begin to change. I believe that time was 1963. For my generation, some of the following will certainly stir old memories. If you born later, this may serve as a brief history lesson into the times your parents traveled through. By 1963 television was the leading sources of entertainment. The public enjoyed a different type of programming back then. Lessons on life could be viewed weekly on "Leave it to Beaver" or "My Three Sons." There were hero's back then that never drew blood, "The Lone Ranger" and "The Adventures of Superman." Cartoon series evolved, such as, "The Flintstones" and "The Jetsons" without messages of empowering the children, using vulgarities or demeaning parental guidance. Family's could spend a weekend evening watching "Ed Sullivan," "Bonanza" or "Gunsmoke." For those who enjoyed thrill and suspense, we were blessed with "Alfred Hitchcock Presents" and the "Twilight Zone." 'My Favorite Martian," "Ozzie and Harriet," "Donna Reed" and "Sea Hunt" also kept viewers entertained weekly. Movie theaters were not multiplex units with 15 screens, rather, one single, giant big screen with adequate sound and hard seats without springs. "Tom Jones" had won the Academy award for best picture. "How The West Was Won," "Cleopatra," "Lily of the Fields," "The Great Escape," "The Birds," and "It's a Mad, Mad, Mad, Mad World" were all box office hits. By years end, "The Beatles" had played for the British Royal Family and were laying the groundwork to conquer the U.S. the following year. Eric Clapton began his journey to fame with Jeff Beck, Jimmy Page, Jim McCarty and their band, "The Yardbirds." Out on the west coast the surf was beginning to rock'n'roll with "The Beach Boys" and their first song to reach the top ten list, "Surfin' U.S.A." "Joys of Jell-O" recipes for quivering florescent foodstuff hit the stores. U.S. Postal rates went up to five cents for the first ounce. AT&T introduced touch-tone telephones. The Yankees played in the World Series again; but lost to the Dodgers in four straight. The government and NASA began the Apollo program. This is just a brief snapshot of some things that were going on back in 1963. Remember? While some of these events played an important role in the direction of change that affect us today, many of them were lost to much greater, more political events, that I believe put everything into motion. On January 10, 1963, the House of Representative and later the Senate began reviewing a document entitled "Communist Goals for Taking Over America." It contained an agenda of 45 separate issues that, in hindsight was quite shocking back then and equally shocking today. Here, in part, are some key points listed in that document. 4. Permit free trade between all nations regardless of Communist affiliation and regardless of whether or not items could be used for war. 5. Extension of long-term loans to Russia and Soviet satellites. 8. Set up East and West Germany as separate states. 11. Promote the U.N. as the only hope for mankind. 13. Do away with all loyalty oaths. 16. Use technical decisions of the courts to weaken basic American institutions by claiming their activities violate civil rights. 23. Control art critics and directors of art museums. "Our plan is to promote ugliness, repulsive, meaningless art." 24. Eliminate all laws governing obscenity by calling them "censorship" and a violation of free speech and free press. 25. Break down cultural standards of morality by promoting pornography and obscenity in books, magazines, motion pictures, radio, and TV. 26. Present homosexuality, degeneracy and promiscuity as "normal, natural, healthy." 27. Discredit the Bible and emphasize the need for intellectual maturity, which does not need a "religious crutch." 28. Eliminate prayer or any phase of religious expression in the schools on the ground that it violates the principle of "separation of church and state." 40. Discredit the family as an institution. Encourage promiscuity and easy divorce. 44. Internationalize the Panama Canal. You can see the entire list on this web page - http://www.truthtrek.net/politics/takeover.htm Now, I am not saying that the U.S. is under some kind of Communist control, but what I do find frightening, is of the 45 issues listed, nearly all of them have come to pass. Remember this was in January 1963. In 1963 the news media showed women burning their bras as the women's liberation movement took off with the publishing of "The Feminine Mystique" by Betty Friedan. Martin Luther King was jailed in April and civil unrest was being brought to the forefront. On August 28th the media brought us live coverage of the march on Washington and Dr. Kings famous "I had a dream" speech. The Cuban missile crisis found its way in to our homes and our nation was gearing up for conflict. By September of 1963 we had lost some very influential people, Pope John XXIII, Robert Frost, and country legend Patsy Cline, to name a few. In the early hours of November 22nd we learned of the quiet passing of C.S. Lewis and hours later we were brought to our knees when President John F. Kennedy was assassinated and our nation mourned. So you see, while long since forgotten, 1963 could very well have been, one of the most important years since our founding fathers provided us with the Constitution of the United States. Which brings me to one final and extremely important decision that was made during this most provocative year. On June 17, 1963 the U.S. Supreme Court concluded that any Bible reciting or prayer, in public schools, was deemed unconstitutional. While American's have endured great prosperity over the past 40 years we have also lost our moral compass and direction. In reviewing the research, data supports 1963 as a focal point, demonstrating a downward slope in our moral and social decline through 2001. Certainly, one would have to agree that all of these events have had a profound impact on the way our current social structure has been changed. Personally, if I had to choose one specific event that has demonstrated the demoralization of our country, it would have to be the decision of the U.S Supreme Court in June of 1963. But there is always "hope." As always, I welcome your comments and can easily be reached. Thanks for the response to "Daddy, What's Fluoride?" My email is: greg@truthtrek.net Comment From Founders' America foundersamerica@hotmail.com 12-7-2 Jeff...adding a couple of my own numbers: __ 46. Import anti-white racists from the Third World, via an open-borders policy, then force their integration to divide and conquer white Western civilization in North America. __ 47. Feminize and disarm both the citizenry and military; especially disarm white males. Founders' America P.O. Box 71024 Richmond, Va 23255

BTW: I am Canadian, I come from southern Ontario and have lived in Toronto for the last 8 years up until recently when I moved to Marmora Ontario. I moved to save money and I miss Toronto and my activist friends at Toronto 9/11 Truth. I am a "conspiracy theorist" and I miss handing out free DVD's at Dundas Square on Saturdays.

Thank you for such warm welcomes. I've never been on a discussion group like this, there are a lot of good thinkers and no detectable trolls. I see a lot of people have a philosophy background. That does impress me - when I took pure math in school I got about a "G" or "H" on my first few assignments. "G" stands for "Get out of my class". "H" stands for "Hello, are you awake". Although my prof liked me and knew I had respect for the subject the message was clear from the low marks. My prof explained that some people get it and some people do not, there are few average students. Maybe I didn't put enough time into it - I had seven other engineering classes. When I read an axiom stating that "A is A" here, I wonder why it needs to be stated. I wonder if that stuff is part of some form of satanic brainwashing - or its just over my head. Satanism is taking over the planet and it comes from the man behind the curtain and it is infecting education as well as everything else. As far as what I think of the libertarian party, I do not like organized parties. I would only vote for an independent. I have some experience with an organized party and believe it became populated with deconstructionists at the top. I have no experience with the libertarians, but I did meet them once during a meeting. I couldn't stay with them because they did not believe that 9/11 was an inside job - something I am 100% sure of. As far as global warming goes, this is a perfect example of fascism - fascism is state control of the mind. Moussolini said that fascism occurs when governments and corporations unite, but I believe fascism is a mind thing. I have read a book called Political Ponerology and this was about the physical affects of fascism on the mind, these were discovered during autopsies in Poland in the 30's. PP is great book and there is a summary of it online. I have never found a clear definition of fascism, the one here is my own. As far as "The Chilling Stars: The New Theory of Climate Change by Henrik Svensmark", there is also a movie called "Global Warming or Global Governance" by Michael Coffman posted on google for free viewing and this talks about the solar influence on cloud formation and climate. Another great reference on this is "The Open Conspiracy" by HG Wells. If anyone here understands Strauss, I'm really interested.

I've been looking into this for some time. I would suggest that anyone who is interested in learning what is actually going on to read "Web Of Debt" by Dr. Ellen Brown. I have not read this but I have read others. From interviews I have listened to with Brown she has added much to what has already existed as "Secrets Of The Federal Reserve" (Eustace Mullins) and "The Creature From Jekyll Island" (G. Edward Griffin). Griffin wrote The Creature and has a great web site on all of this. I don't recall its address. Also, Dr. Stan Monteith has a great site with loads of interviews with various experts at www.radioliberty.com. Alan Watt is another great source at www.cuttingthroughthematrix.com. Bob Chapman at TheInternationalForecaster.com does great commentary on economics and provides links on his site. *****Michael Shaw is another one. He explains Sustainable Development is a way that is clear and concise like no other. He is probably most clear in his explanations and his message is critically important - as important as Browns. Its good to go back in time with stuff like "The Open Conspiracy" by HG Wells - its a great book for people who are not "conspiracy theorists" and for people that are environmentalists. It was written in or around the 30's. Club Of Rome books are available as well. They expose environmentalism and were not expected to be read by the general population. *****Anything on the general topic of "Accepted For Value" is also great. People need to learn that law and banking are intertwined. They need to learn about where the money goes when they pay a parking ticket, not to mention their income tax. sorry for the lack of links. Don't have much time, wanted to be "wide spectrum"in my response to this. These sources are the best of hundreds I have looked at over many years.

Hello, I am new to objectivism and am here after a long search for moral philosophy that makes sense to me after recognizing that we are in a moral crisis. I have a blog at www.dougplumb.blogspot.com My background in this subject matter is only in interest. I have never taken a philosophy course but I have read bits of Plato, Aristotle, Rousseau, Neitzche, Strauss as well as a few others. I didn't understand Strauss. I thought Neitzche was great and probably misunderstood by many who talk about him. Plato's Republic floored me - I didn't agree with the philosophy but the last book is amazing considering it was written over 2000 years ago. I liked Rousseau but found him a little over my head in terms of reading level. My favorite philosophic essay is "In Praise of Idleness" by Bertrand Russell. I read about half of Fountainhead and got bored with it - I understand what Rand is trying to say here, I started reading Atlas Shrugged and am about halfway through. This is a GREAT book and has solidified what I have come to learn since 9/11 and dealing with the Law Society of Upper Canada. I came to know that the money system, legal system and the policing in our country is totally corrupt and exists for the sole purpose of robbing honest people and pass the loot onto the robber barons. I like everything I have heard and heard from Rand except her views on education. I believe the education should be funded via public vouchers that can be used at privately run schools. Education not only benefits the one being educated but the community at large as well. This is why I believe that the community should fund it. Education is critical to the survival of a community. Public education as we have it now is nothing more than masters teaching kids to be good slaves and nothing more. In science classes they actually teach that man made global warming is real - this shows me we live under a fascist regime. Its one example why education should never be under government control. Teachers should assist kids in learning, kids naturally love to learn. Our current crop of criminals destroy the love for learning to create dumb slaves to serve the world ruling elite - the owners of the Federal Reserve. I always like criticism so don't be concerned about offending me. If you think one of my posts is idiotic, please say so.

I just started reading Rand, I read half of Fountainhead - didn't like it because it wasn't teaching me anything, I'm self employed and creative. Atlas Shrugged is beautiful and it has solidified stuff I was already learning from the Patriot movement. I fold pages at the bottom where I find her killer quotes as I read - I want to share them myself. I believe that after a period of time literary works become public domain. I world suggest one of the expert based web services. You would pay $50.00 or so to get a good answer to your question. AskAnExpert is one I believe.