dougplumb

Brant:"I don't believe in anthropogenic global warming or climate change. There has been no measurable warming since 1998. It's cooled off a little. No sunspot activity is most likely setting us up for global cooling. Climate is always changing regardless. CO2 is a weak, very weak, greenhouse gas. Water vapor is the primary greenhouse gas. The climate record indicates high temperatures tend to be followed by higher levels of CO2 than the other way around. A thousand years ago when there was green in Greenland and they grew wine grapes in England and temperatures were significantly higher than today, the world didn't fall off the cliff into the environmentalists' hell." Agreed. Why do you think that Obama inc are inacting carbon taxes ? How can you trust these people ? Why is this becoming reality when anyone with more than two brain cells can see its all fake ?

I've provided two explanations of the motivation in this thread. One right after you asked, another right after Selene asked. I could cut and paste it here..

Brant, Is there anything on the TV news or that the government says that you do not believe ? Do you believe that man is responsible for "Global Warming" or "Climate Change" ?

I would really like to hear about some actual evidence that supports the official version of 9/11. It would be interesting to see, I want to see it. More than anything, I want to believe it. I wish I believed it, but I can't and I don't think that anyone should. I think people need to buckle up and look at the actual evidence.

Chris Grieb: "Brant; Well stated. " I dissagree. I think that if someone is unwilling to contribute to the discussion at hand then they should post elsewhere. As far as the moon landing goes, I don't believe anything I see on TV. Most people on this forum have shaped their beliefs around what they have seen on TV, but I am an objectivist and a rationalist. I believe that the moon landings were faked and that cost about 5 million dollars and the remaining money was taken for payoff's etc. The reason for this is that this moon landing could not be allowed to fail. The American psyche and confidence in building the military industrial complex and its economic output depended on the moon landing being successful. Failure was not an option, therefore it had to be faked to guarentee success. Then there is the evidence... No one has proven to me that the moon landings were real. Known liars have used the moon landings to their benefit. The moon landings may be real, but I believe the old saying "once a liar, always a liar", and World War 2 was nothing but a great big lie, same as all the other wars. Wars serve the purpose of increasing the income tax so that the oligarchy can take a larger and larger piece of the economy. Almost everything that this society depends on in terms of morality has ultimately been exposed as a lie. Ultimately society is based on morality and we have none. Our governments are drug dealers, thieves and often admitted Satanists or Luciferians. The robe a judge wears is known as "The Robe Of Saturn" and this goes way back to Egyptian mythology.

general semantic: "OK, and do you think commercial airliners were rigged up to be controlled remotely prior to 9/11 and what happened to the pilots? Or do you think military planes were used to fly into the buildings? Were any planes actually hijacked?" I don't know if the commercial planes were used to fly into the buildings or not. I do not know of any evidence that supports the planes hijackings. I think that was just "made for TV". I guess that the pilots were unable to take control back from the computers on the plane and likely unable to communicate with the outside world. I don't know. I think it may be possible to get one person to do a suicide mission. I think its far more difficult to get 4 to do it. To get 4 groups of people to simultaneously conduct a suicide mission sounds impossible to me. A planner of such a mission would have to count on all 16 or 20 people being willing to carry it out without chickening out. I can't really imagine that someone would plan and expect that. I think if there were multiple groups of suicidal hi-jackers, one or more group would chicken out. But you are asking me to speculate and I do not normally do this.

I think the planes were electronically controlled to fly into the buildings.

"what makes you think 9/11 is a conspiracy. Doug, Rich, can neither of you answer." Who gained from it ? Did Usama gain anything ? Would he strike at a center for banking and commerce because he hates our freedom ? Why would Usama do this ? Did the military industrial complex gain anything ? - Yes - money for more power to the bankers. people will be taxed more to get a bigger military to protect us from these terrorists. More war and more drug and oil profit (yes, the government deals dope but that is another topic) 9/11 gave the gov an excuse to invade Afghanistan, they needed to protect their opium crops from the Taliban who had burned 90 % of them. The armies were already at the border waiting for 9/11 and a reason to attack- which occured 3 weeks after 9/11. Heroin export went from 40 billion to now over 600 billion. The government power over its citizens certainly increased with the police state. There will be no chance of the citizenry rejecting Sustainable Development or the UN now, the military is watching everyone to keep them safe from terrorists. Soon guns will be confiscated to further protect us from terrorists. The night before 9/11 Rumsfeld announces that 2.3 trillion had gone missing from the Pentagon. The American public need to forget about that and the rediculous subsequent explanation for it. I go into more detail in an earlier post on this stuff.

Johnathan: "I thought that you had said earlier that you are not an engineer. Which type of engineering do you have a bachelor's degree in? Your profile says that one of your interests is audio engineering. Is that what you have a degree in? And you think that your audio engineering degree somehow qualifies you to comment on structural engineering? " I am an electrical engineer, and have taken structural and material science courses, but that is not relevant. What we are talking about here is common sense. There are many more experts in physics, structural engineering and material science questioning the official version than endorsing it, and for the same common sense reason. Johnathan: "Well, earlier in the discussion, you claimed that you had seen "squibs" on video. You asserted that they were most definitely "squibs," and not something that you merely interpreted as looking like what you imagined squibs might look like." I doubt that a filtering algorithm would produce artifacts that look like squibs. They are either there in the original footage or they were added in later by post processing. Tell me Johnathan, what is your objective take on 9/11 ? Why waste bandwidth just doing character attacks when you can contribute to the discussion. Lets hear your objective theory on 9/11. general semanticist: "And apparently there is evidence of explosives in the debris. So lets say there was opportunity to set up some explosive devices in the buildings prior to 9/11 so did CIA agents do this? Would American CIA agents do this to their fellow citizens? What about the hijacked planes, were they not hijacked by fanatical religious terrorists? Details please." I don't know who actually put the bombs in the building. I would imagine that a private contractor from somewhere did it. Secret missions get carried out all the time by the military, and certainly by private thugs that will do anything for money. As far as the hijacked planes go there is no evidence that suggests the hijackers ever existed that I know of. I know the flight manifests were first released without their names on it. The whole story around the hijacked planes is full of lies [cell phone calls] and there is no physical evidence that supports terrorists on the planes.

The single best thing to watch is proabably "The Money Masters: How The Federal Reserve Stole America". Its free on Google. Then watch "9/11 Road To Tyranny" also free on Google, Then "Terrorstorm", also free. Jones thoroughly backs up everything he says, thats why so many establishment supporters HATE him. These last two were done by Jones. Then watch "EndGame" also by Jones. That should give you a good overall view, but start with The Money Masters.

"Doug, generally we are Objectivists here and we consider things through that philosophical lens. " lets hear your take on 9/11 through that lens.

Which do you mean by conspiracy nuts ? - the ones that believe in the evil terrorist mastermind because they hate our freedom plot, or the ones that believe it was the banks and the military industrial complex trying to expand corporate power?

see http://www.archive.org/details/BlackKrishn...auds_Mar27_2007 The above link was broken.

I pass out DVD's and ran for an election. Friends of mine - the more talented ones do interviews. Black Krishna is a friend of mine and he has some of the best interviews I have ever heard. He and Dr. Tim Ball lay out global warming. see http://www.sumo.tv/watch.php?video=2891960 for a magnificent presentation on Global warming. Also see Black Krishna and Alan Watt on the big picture. I have also done some speeches that are posted on You Tube. Its a good idea to give someone a movie - frinstance Alex Jones "Terrorstorm" You can make as many copies of this as you want legally if you order just one copy. Pass it around and say "I'm curious to hear what you think of this movie, I saw it and thought they made some interesting points". I've made 1000 copies of that or more. I put them in mail boxes.

Dragonfly: Show me one single piece of evidence that supports the governments version of 9/11. I don't mean something that you heard on Anderson Coopers 360 [maximum spin] - I mean evidence.

As far as experts go, I do not need a mathematician to tell me that 2+2 isn't 5. I don't need a tree scientist to tell me that if you chop down a tree it doesn't suddenly turn into dust and fall straight down (This analogy was used by a Phd engineer in describing 9/11 (both structural engineering & material science Phd - Judy Wood) I have a bachelors degree in engineering and have personally spoke to many top experts regarding the collapses of the buildings on 9/11. They laugh and agree that it is as ridiculous as it looks. Those buildings didn't "fall" down. If you want experts, there is a list of them here: http://patriotsquestion911.com/ (for those that dare to look) There are only a few "experts" like Ben Chertoff (who is related to Michael Chertoff) who print things like what we saw in Popular mechanics. The whole official version is supported by only a handful of high ranking establishment engineers, and the official version was constantly changing as conspiracy theorists pointed out lies and impossibilities. A lot of engineers depend on the military industrial complex and cannot speak out. They want big screen TV's and expensive cars. Who here believes man is causing global warming ? Isn't there a bunch of experts flogging that one ? You cannot trust the government experts in a fascist society.

There is not a single point mentioned in that Popular Mechanics coverage of 9/11 that is actually true. All ten points are lies or misdirection. Name any one of their points and I will go through it. Some of us "nutters" believe that it can happen here. The only nutters I know are people that believe something that has absolutely no evidence anywhere to back it up. They believe it because it was on TV. As far as photographic evidence goes, I don't depend on it much on 9/11 except to see the manner and speed for which the buildings went down. These show controlled demolitions not random accidents. All the lies and coverups of the 9/11 commission, Popular Mechanics and various TV shows about it show that something is being covered up.

Selene: "Therefore, an individual who wishes to act should do what? I am asking this question without any venom or satire." I think we should try and inform as many people as possible, through any means. Police and military and leaders need to know there is an aware public, otherwise they cannot do anything to stop this. Public opinion ultimately rules. As far as 9/11 goes, not only does the physical evidence show it had to have been done "from the inside" meaning the inside of the buildings, but the number of lies that have been told by mainstream media and elected officials shows they are covering up. If they are covering up they must be involved. The big media outlets ignored lots of things - such as showing the collapse of wtc7, existence of core columns in the buildings, the stock "put" options, etc. In the OKC bombing, they did not report bombs being found in the Murrah building.

I'm sitting here listening to Gerald Celente (The International Forecaster) tell the whole truth on Rense radio. This guy is on TV all the time, but they never let him tell it like it is. He has consistently been able to give good advise and tell people what is coming. A couple of my friends and I were talking about this on Sat night. I brought up this forum, they both asked why I would waste time on people that didn't already know 9/11 was an inside job. The fact is that this is just a beginning in understanding what is happening, its a lot to digest going from ww2 to Sustainable Development today. Its a gut wrenching learning curve and there probably isn't enough time, if Celente and others are right.

I just cannot believe that there are people that still don't know 9/11 was an inside job. I started being polite then I get insulted. I am not insulting anyone. The bottom line is this: either we all wake up or we all perish. I want to get as much verifiable info out there for people that are curious but don't know where to begin looking. All of our wars have been about our banks printing the money for the small third world countries. The world is experiencing a financial system world takeover that has been happening slowly since the Fed was put into place here (and a few surrounding events) and for hundreds of years in European royalty and the banks. John Perkins "Confessions Of An Economic Hit Man" explains the nature the UN and IMF. This plan is near completion. We really don't have much time left. Think about the fact that our governments are now able to implement carbon taxes when most people know that man made global warming is a "total crock of shit" as someone important once said. Why are the cameras going up everywhere ? Sustainable Development is the final aspect of their plans.

BTW: Yugoslavia was invaded because they created their own national banks. It people would not be indebted to the families of the world who print the currency and rent it to our governments. This whole thing is being put into place by the UN, The Federal reserve and European banking and royalty. They are all related. Look up Bloodlines Of The Illuminati. Bush, Harper and everyone else "big" are all related to one another. Also, Hitler was on our side, we had Smedley Butler over here set up to do the same thing to the USA that Hitler did to germany. Butler spilled the beans, Hitler went east instead of west. Also, see Maj. Jordans Diaries to see how the cold war was created to build up the military.

9/11 was created to build up fear and the police state at home. The police state will need to be fully in place before everyone has their private property taken so that they cannot fight back. As our real economy is stolen out from under us and shipped to China, people will start getting hungry and desperate and lose their homes. The carbon taxes cannot be implemented without first taking guns away. In the words of David Miller, the Mayor of Toronto, "gun confiscation is necessary before social justice can be implemented". The fear of terrorism is driving gun confiscation laws. All dictators, Stalin, Hitler, Mao, Pol Pot all have had to confiscate guns before depopulation operations begin. Vaccines are for depopulation. There are piles of doctors saying this on the web. Look for radioliberty.com (Dr. Stan Monteith) He interviews doctors about the vaccines and about the fluoridated water, which is equally diabolical. Also investigate the chem trails. 9/11 created public consent to invade Afghanistan, this invasion was necessary because the establishment needs the heroin trade to fund black ops. Just before we invaded, the Taliban had destroyed 90 % of the crops, after the invasion the crops have grown to record levels every year since. Terrorism was why we supposedly invaded Iraq - but the real reason was that Hussein decided to start selling oil in Euro's rather than USD, threatening US hegemony and the ability of these people to implement the New World Order. If you do not believe a New World Order - a socialist dictatorship is being implemented, look up quotes from David Rockefellers autobiography. I have a copy here and Rockefeller admits it but does not use the specific term New World Order. George Bush Sr and others have. Its now being admitted to in the mainstream press anyways. The military needed to be beefed up and we needed to put bases around Russia, the war provided the excuse. Russia has kicked out the banking oligarchy and is the only nation that stands against the new world government. That is just some of it. In short the police state was motivated by terrorism but is needed before Sustainable Development is fully implemented. Look for Michael Shaw if you want to learn about Sustainable Development. I doubt there is anyone here that believes the world is overpopulated or that man is causing global warming so I won't get into that. Ayn Rand warned us about that anyways.

"(As an aside, "You can't handle the truth" is a silly cop-out, not an answer.)" If I quotes sources, would you have the courage to look them up, or what you just write them off as "obscure" ?

I have spent thousands of dollars on DVD's and handed them out on street corners, I have set my own dreams aside to deal with this, knowing that my dreams are no longer possible. I know people that are in it, call themselves Luciferians and laugh about it. I know exactly what is going on from years of research as well. I have ran for politics and said it exactly as it is in front of powerful people. I have told Revenue Canada to stop calling me for tax money until our government stops dealing dope, laundering money for these dope dealers, stops the satanic child molestations (Ted Gunderson/Finders), spreading poisonous DU all over its war zones, the chem trails, poisoning the water with fluoride and poisoning our minds with a fascist education system that demands students believe the ridiculous. Here I am once again, casting pearls before swine that for the most part deserve abject slavery. I am NOT crazy, the people who think 9/11 was perpetrated by Usama are children. They require no evidence. They have no evidence. Its what TV wants them to believe. That IS crazy. Not wanting to inform others or try to stop this IS crazy. If everyone could just face reality this would end by next week.

The big picture is that the banking collapses and 9/11 and everything in between are all connected. The purpose of the big conspiracy is to destroy religion and with it The Natural Right of Man. Get Strauss' Natural Right & History and read only the first 14 pages. The few private families that have controlled the money supply wish to concentrate their wealth to preserve the power and position of the English ruling class (that's not you and me) for all time. They have too many slaves. The neoconservatives follow the philosophy of Leo Strauss, who in turn got his education from Carl Schmidt, who was Hitlers guide. The democrats are on board and following the same agenda, although the liberal agenda was originally to squeeze our rights out of us much more slowly. In the end 80% - 95 % of the worlds population will be killed off, the remaining members will not have the right to happinesss or any kind of freedom. Those that survive will live under total socialism and society will be shaped to maximize their ability to serve a very small ruling class. This has all been rehearsed in the last 100 years. Moussolini experimented with the public-private partnerships, Germany with the wars and propaganda and Stalin with mass starvation, the tattle tale society and prison camps. The banks that funded all of this are are the ones bringing the new system in to control the world. Now, I could quote all kinds of sources from famous historians, think tank publications and from people who have stepped away from this, but as Jack Nicholson said "You can't handle the truth" - and that applies to most people here and this whole plan WILL HAPPEN HERE. People that support the war making drug dealers and human traffickers of misery that form our government actually deserve it. Ultimately everything rests on morality and responsibility. Most people do not have this. They will just do what they are told, believing gov would never hurt them and that it can't happen here. What is happening today, right now, tomorrow and next years dwarfs anything in the past thousands of years of history and most people deserve no more than abject slavery due to their cowardice. I didn't quote anything from any obscure sources. The sources I quoted for 911 are the mainstream sources. Its just not on TV. They espouse the position of most engineers and scientists who have had the courage to look into the facts surrounding 9/11. Many people prefer to believe that our governments are good (even as they are setting up carbon taxes and giving your taxmoney away to CEO's) and prefer to believe the world is the way it is because of an omni-potent terrorist mastermind who is bent on world domination.