dougplumb

" Does Doug Plumb beat his wife? (1) No (2) Yes (3) Don't know (4) Don't care " I think I have had enough of this forum. Goodbye.

"My name is Michael, not Bill. If you think my poll "dilutes" the issue, then I was right to think you wanted to present a slanted poll at the outset (whether intentional or not). I removed the predigested "inside job" slant and let people choose the different options to the best of their abilities, not to the best of your ability to slant the questions." All I am saying is I wanted a simpler poll. Sorry for the name mix up. I think Chris should be removed for that remark about me beating my wife. That is very stupid and pathetic. I will stop asking Chris for the evidence that backs up his belief in the official version of 9/11.

I guess it depends on how you define government. I define it as those who create and implement policy. Its not the clowns we "vote" for - they are salesmen and nothing more. You just want to sit in your ivory tower and be an arm chair critic. If you start telling me why you believe the official version of 9/11 you know that you will have to speak in general terms and that you cannot back up anything you say. You cannot back up your beliefs in any way, that is why you must sit back and criticize and never stick your neck out. Lets hear some evidence that supports your beliefs.

""In university you tow the political line as a prof or you are out." << not if you have integrity and you are a good teacher, you just invite folks to the faculty meeting. If they are barred, you hold your faculty meeting on the lawn outside the administration building." What motivates perfectly qualified profs to teach man made global warming ? All I am saying is that many academics have said to me that you have to tow the line. You can't start teaching real history, real economics or real science. I was warned about what I was taught about global warming and about banking in school by profs, it was explained to me that there are some things they cannot teach. Everyone knows these guys are dep on NGO's and foundations for research grants and that NGO's and foundations are the real gov- they establish and sometimes direct policy, not these morons we elect and see on TV - they are ceremonial or symbolic just like the hood ornament isn't your car. Why is it that we can have long discussions about things that can never really be stated objectively, but then when I start stating objective facts there is no discussion ? It seems you are all hovering waiting for an excuse to attack, yet really have added nothing to this discussion on 9/11 or why you believe what you do regarding any conspiracy theory. Attack my reasoning on why I think 9/11 was an inside job.

Bill P "beware of the mistake of concluding that because someone tells you "I have heard about lots of people who . . . ." there really are very many. Rumors of some of the strangest sorts can start and grow in the absence of any corroborating facts." I personally have been told the nature of universities and towing the line before I realized that gov had been taken over by criminals. I wasn't political then and wondered about why that would be or what the motivation for them telling me was. This isn't a rumour that I am saying to you. If you repeat it it becomes rumour from you. I learned about it in eco class after asking about where all the money came from and in science when man made global warming was taught. Plus in the pub. I thought everyone knew universities had all been corrupted by the tax free foundations who provide the research grants. I didn't understand it until after I graduated and started educating myelf. We know they are corrupt because they teach man made global warming.

Johnathan: "Are these the same "experts" who, like you, can't even get their interpretations of simple, objectively measurable photographic evidence right? You can't reliably measure and compare something as simple as images of noses on faces, or compensate for the exposure density differences between different video sources, yet you expect people to believe that you've done accurate "science" in regard to much more complex physical issues which are less objectively measurable than images of noses on faces and exposure densities?" I have given you links to Patriots Question 9/11 and Architects and Engineers for 9/11 truth. What does anyone think Usama bin Ladens motive was in bombing the wtc's ? Did he want Afghanistan or Iraq bombed for it ? Who benefited from the attacks ?

"You are unable to list even one single faculty member who was tenured, and was denied tenure and who has claimed said denial was somehow linked to them having taken the view that 9/11 was, as you term it, "an inside job."" Jones was not tenured, but he was given early retirement. Pardon me - he wasn't tenured. You guys should try making some statements. You sit in the bushes waiting for me to trip up. I have stated in very clear terms my case, but none of you will state yours. If you want to criticise what I say when standing up, then stand up yourselves and earn the right. Anyone can be an arm chair quarter-back. I've given Johnathan the link to investigate the videos in detail www.whatreallyhappened.com (Mike Rivero) The videos or any form of speculation are not part of my case for 9/11 being an inside job.

"May we infer that Stephen Jones is your best or only example? (Or is it Steven Jones, as I find it spelled at some sites...?)" No I know of others but its been a while since I have argued 9/11. I may have stated things a little loosely there, but Jones (Steven) was outed because of his questioning and investigation of 9/11. I know of another prof that specialized in Islamic study that was also on the outs. Everyone knows what the universities are like - hardly free thinking institutions. I went to university and had conversations with all kinds of profs about this, engineering, arts, - all kinds. In university you tow the political line as a prof or you are out. You will never see a university prof teaching about honest money in a first year economics class ! - maybe in a philosophy class. I have heard this from many profs in person, I can't give names. We all know they teach that man made global warming is real in universities.

Bill, I wanted the poll to look like this: Was 9/11 An Inside Job ? (1)No (2)Yes (3)Don't know (4)Don't care I think your poll dilutes the issue too much. I would want people who voted to state their reasoning for their vote. I have been PMing too much - the software won't let me do it any more today.

Selene: "Doug kinda reminds me of the last juror in 12 Angry Men" I never saw the movie - did this guy keep talking about evidence or something ?

Wrt Stephen Jones, he was a prof with good standing until he started investigating 9/11 then he lost his tenure. Of course they don't say "you were asking questions about 9/11 so we are taking your tenure away". They find another reason. They have to be protected from the courts. There are a few others. Jones has a very impressive CV.

"Doug - Is that URL typed correctly? radioliberty.com Seriously?" Bill P www.radioliberty.com, Dr Stan Monteith has been investigating globalism for a very long time and has an impressive array of guests on his radio talk show. I don't agree with everything that is on there, I am not a religious believer. Look for Dennis Cuddy, William Grigg, Bob Chapman, Joel Skousen, Gerald Celente, Michael Shaw, Jerome Corsi, and various doctors for good interviews from the Listen Online link.

Where were the other confessions other than the tape ? Does anyone think that confession would enter a court of law as evidence - with no audio ? What do you think of the earlier statement that bin Laden said he was not in any way involved ? Two contradictory statements, why does one carry more weight than the other ? If bin Laden did this he obviously had inside information about the excercise that day that would generate the necessary confusion. Why wasn't anyone arrested from the inside ? Same argument for London 7/7 and the OKC bombings - there is always an identical excercise happening at the same time. Why isn't anyone arrested from the inside for telling bin Laden ? Why didn't anyone get demoted or fired for the series of blunders that day that allowed 9/11 to occur ?

"That's a pretty impressive statement about losing tenure. It is a significant legal action for a professor to lose tenure. Can you provide the specific names, departments and schools for a few of the professors who have lost tenure? Your statement above that "anyone that questions the official version of 9/11 in the universities loses their tenure" certainly implies that there have been actual cases of this." There is Dr. Stephen Jones of Brigham Young. There are others. Jones found the vidence of Thermate used to destroy the towers. He is the guy the gov trusted to look into this whole cold fusion thing for the dept of energy.

The best overall source of info on globalization is radioliberty.com IMO. Johnathan, I looked at the photographic evidence a long time ago. I don't depend on it for my case on 9/11 being an inside job. many people on my side agree with your take on the photographic evidence. With the photos you presented, the faces do look similar but there aremany problems with this confession tape, missing audio is only one of them. My case for 9/11 being an inside job is based purely on science, as I have explained earlier. The buildings were demolished, there is no shortage of building experts that agree with me, there are hundreds. Only a handful of government lobbyists and employees publically support the official version of 9/11. Anyone that questions the official version of 9/11 in the universities loses their tenure, I expect the same as with government employees and closely associated contractors. University profs in civil engineering up here in Canada WILL NOT discuss 9/11 with their engineering students. This is from two different students from two different schools who did not know each other. I have heard it from others as well.