Robertson, Of Duck Dynasty Fired For His Personal Opinions - Regarding Sexuality...

[moralist]

For all practical intents and purposes, people do not change their basic view. The view you chose, you will take with you to your grave as you deserve... just as I will.

Greg

First off, this is demonstrably false. People change their views all the time.

You're just talking about the fluff on the surface... while I'm talking about one of the two core views already chosen.

Secondly, if you really believe this... why do you discuss ideas at all?

For entertainment.

I don't watch television, so this is my TV.

The only reason I can imagine would be that you enjoy reinforcing what you already believe.

Instead of engaging in the futility of trying to convince others of my view...

...I simply convince others that I remain unconvinced by their view.

Greg

[moralist]

If no one else here wants to call you to the carpet for it, that's fine.

Kacy,

People's time isn't infinite, and the amount for which Greg could be called on the carpet seems to be.

Ellen

And I truly love that carpet, Ellen.

Greg

[Selene]

...I simply convince others that I remain unconvinced by their view.

Greg

Nicely turned Greg.

[Ellen Stuttle]

Kacy,People's time isn't infinite, and the amount for which Greg could be called on the carpet seems to be.

Ellen

And I truly love that carpet, Ellen.

Greg

That's just what I thought, and now you're on record admitting it.

Also:

[...] one of the two core views already chosen.

At this point there's no plausible excuse whatsoever for your continuing to proclaim your "two core views" inaccuracy.

Ellen

[moralist]

...I simply convince others that I remain unconvinced by their view.

Greg

Nicely turned Greg.

...and I honestly do mean that. I'm letting everyone here know exactly what I'm doing.

Greg

[Selene]

...I simply convince others that I remain unconvinced by their view.

Greg

Nicely turned Greg.

...and I honestly do mean that. I'm letting everyone here know exactly what I'm doing.

I know you are. I am complimenting you on your technique.

[moralist]

Kacy,People's time isn't infinite, and the amount for which Greg could be called on the carpet seems to be.

Ellen

And I truly love that carpet, Ellen.

Greg

That's just what I thought, and now you're on record admitting it.

That's really not a difficult admission that I love being challenged for my chosen view.

Also:

[...] one of the two core views already chosen.

At this point there's no plausible excuse whatsoever for your continuing to proclaim your "two core views" inaccuracy.

Ellen

There actually are only two views:

There is one right view... and all the rest are infinite variations of the wrong view.

Greg

[Ellen Stuttle]

...and I honestly do mean that. I'm letting everyone here know exactly what I'm doing.

I know you are. I am complimenting you on your technique.

Blech.

Ellen

PS: So I suppose you compliment the climate alarmists also, since they use a number of the techniques Greg uses?

[moralist]

...and I honestly do mean that. I'm letting everyone here know exactly what I'm doing.

I know you are. I am complimenting you on your technique.

Blech.

Ellen

PS: So I suppose you compliment the climate alarmists also, since they use a number of the techniques Greg uses?

Techniques are just amoral tools, so it's a mistake to confuse them with intentions.

Greg

[Selene]

...and I honestly do mean that. I'm letting everyone here know exactly what I'm doing.

I know you are. I am complimenting you on your technique.

Blech.

Ellen

PS: So I suppose you compliment the climate alarmists also, since they use a number of the techniques Greg uses?

Ellen:

Not most of his prior techniques this last one was nicely utilized.

It is also one that can survive because it is purely individual and self-responsible.

The "climate alarmists" are a group with agendas that they will not disclose. Additionally, they "as a group" intentionally use fraudulent data and flat out lie.

I am virtually certain that Greg does not "intentionally" use fraudulent data and I certainly do not expect him to lie.

A...

[Ellen Stuttle]

I am virtually certain that Greg does not "intentionally" use fraudulent data and I certainly do not expect him to lie.

A...

My belief at this point is that he knows his misrepresentations of others' viewpoints are misrepresentations, and that the snakiness of his responses is deliberate - seems to me too practiced not to be deliberate.

Ellen

[Selene]

I am virtually certain that Greg does not "intentionally" use fraudulent data and I certainly do not expect him to lie.

A...

My belief at this point is that he knows his misrepresentations of others' viewpoints are misrepresentations, and that the snakiness of his responses is deliberate - seems to me too practiced not to be deliberate.

Ellen

Possible.

However, I am willing to give him the benefit of the doubt for now.

[dldelancey]

I am virtually certain that Greg does not "intentionally" use fraudulent data and I certainly do not expect him to lie.

A...

My belief at this point is that he knows his misrepresentations of others' viewpoints are misrepresentations, and that the snakiness of his responses is deliberate - seems to me too practiced not to be deliberate.

Ellen

I agree, and the fact that he finds it all so very entertaining makes it even worse. It's making OL not such a nice place to hang out anymore.

[Michael Stuart Kelly]

Deanna,

Go with your heart.

Whatever you do that's good for Deanna is good for OL.

Michael

EDIT: I will give you this. Mustard on ice cream is an acquired taste.

How about a compromise and I set up an New Age section on the site? (That's a quip, but I'm thinking about how to work this.) Then, when you get pissed at Greg, all you have to do is say, "Get thee to the goddam nunnery, go!"

But I'm serious about being good to yourself. You are worth it--you have a precious mind. People come and go on OL all the time. Whatever is good for you is good for OL. I really like your presence, but not if it is going to be bad for you. Your choice, not mine. I only wish you well. That's been my policy with everyone since the beginning and I've said it often.

[anthony]

There are (thankfully for some) many rooms to Mike and Kat's Place. Me, I read everybody- for interest and mainly to learn or look at things a new way.

But I like to get around all the rooms, and always have...

[Michael Stuart Kelly]

Tony,

You have no idea what's in store for OL. I have some really great stuff cooking in the back room, so I can't say anything right now other than a teaser like this.

Stay tuned...

Good times coming...

Michael

[Mikee]

Regarding Greg.

Greg's manner of speaking set off alarms in my head weeks ago, which prompted me to look him up and to start the Carlos Castaneda thread. I now believe his manner of speaking was internalized from listening to CC speak for an extended period. CC was a fraud and a sociopath perhaps, but Greg is not. I believe him when he says a person's actions are what matters and how you know the worth of a person. I believe Greg talks around things he does not truly know (and knows he does not know) with the techniques learned from CC but if you stick to things that are knowable Greg is perfectly fine. I trust him to be honest and forthright about the things that matter. He has the right to believe whatever he wants about evolution, Christianity, Objectivism, standing on one's head until the second coming, whatever. Like my uncle used to say, "it takes all kinds to make a world" and "it's a free country". Karen and I are presently spending a few days Karen's daughters house in West Hills, just a few miles from Greg. We had an electrical problem which puzzled me. I described the problem to Greg and he immediately figured it out and explained it to me. Problem solved, stress relieved. Thank you Greg.

[moralist]

I am virtually certain that Greg does not "intentionally" use fraudulent data and I certainly do not expect him to lie.

A...

My belief at this point is that he knows his misrepresentations of others' viewpoints are misrepresentations, and that the snakiness of his responses is deliberate - seems to me too practiced not to be deliberate.

Ellen

It's up to you to clarify your own view, Ellen. And I do that frequently when others take it upon themselves to speak for me, as it's a good catalyst to further refine my description.

Your reaction is natural. Whenever someone expresses the view you didn't choose, of course you will find things wrong with it as well as with them. You'll always regard someone else who chose the view you rejected as being wrong because that is a natural consequence of feeling that the view you chose is right. And there will be a natural tendency to cluster together with others who share your chosen view and to commiserate with them as each will reinforce the other that they are right and that the one with the different view is the problem. And if the one with the different view wasn't there, things would go better for you.

This forum is not Marxist zero sum, and one person's post does not prevent another from posting. It's also quite large and would not exist if it were not for different views.

Becoming personally offended is always a free choice, so I use that opportunity to choose not to be, regardless of the nature of the disagreement.

Greg

[Michael Stuart Kelly]

Greg,

Get a load of this.

A little birdy backstage told me there's a rumor going around that I don't censor you because you gave money to OL.

If you did, that's news to me.

(But don't let that stop you. Just joking... )

I don't know you except for your posts on OL, but I think you are a good person with a quirky way of speaking. I agree with some of the things you say and disagree with others, as I am sure you do with me.

No stress in that.

There might be more, I suppose, but from my end, that's about the long and short of it.

Do you see anything different?

Michael

[anthony]

Regarding Greg.

Greg's manner of speaking set off alarms in my head weeks ago, which prompted me to look him up and to start the Carlos Castaneda thread. I now believe his manner of speaking was internalized from listening to CC speak for an extended period. CC was a fraud and a sociopath perhaps, but Greg is not. I believe him when he says a person's actions are what matters and how you know the worth of a person. I believe Greg talks around things he does not truly know (and knows he does not know) with the techniques learned from CC but if you stick to things that are knowable Greg is perfectly fine. I trust him to be honest and forthright about the things that matter. He has the right to believe whatever he wants about evolution, Christianity, Objectivism, standing on one's head until the second coming, whatever. Like my uncle used to say, "it takes all kinds to make a world" and "it's a free country". Karen and I are presently spending a few days Karen's daughters house in West Hills, just a few miles from Greg. We had an electrical problem which puzzled me. I described the problem to Greg and he immediately figured it out and explained it to me. Problem solved, stress relieved. Thank you Greg.

Not because we are having a few electrical hassles at the new house and I'm looking for advice - Scout's and O'ist's Honor! - that I agree with what you say and how you said it.

[Serapis Bey]

I now believe his manner of speaking was internalized from listening to CC speak for an extended period.

I agree.

But I think he should acknowledge his sources.

Remember - ingratitude is not a virtue.

[Ellen Stuttle]

Your reaction is natural. Whenever someone expresses the view you didn't choose, of course you will find things wrong with it as well as with them. You'll always regard someone else who chose the view you rejected as being wrong because that is a natural consequence of feeling that the view you chose is right. And there will be a natural tendency to cluster together with others who share your chosen view and to commiserate with them as each will reinforce the other that they are right and that the one with the different view is the problem. And if the one with the different view wasn't there, things would go better for you.

I.e., anyone who's doubtful of your honesty is so because that person disagrees with some viewpoint or other you hold. Bilge.

Ellen

[Brant Gaede]

Your reaction is natural. Whenever someone expresses the view you didn't choose, of course you will find things wrong with it as well as with them. You'll always regard someone else who chose the view you rejected as being wrong because that is a natural consequence of feeling that the view you chose is right. And there will be a natural tendency to cluster together with others who share your chosen view and to commiserate with them as each will reinforce the other that they are right and that the one with the different view is the problem. And if the one with the different view wasn't there, things would go better for you.

I.e., anyone who's doubtful of your honesty is so because that person disagrees with some viewpoint or other you hold. Bilge.

Ellen

Everything with Greg is a form of argumentum ad hominem. There is no basic reference to the truth or what it might be or how it might be discovered. When you cleave metaphysics and epistemology off of philosophy you get his intellectual second-handerism of views and opinions and birds of feather flocking together while he condescendingly pats us all on the head with the reassurance that he's just the same.

--Brant

good luck, you all, using this in science

[Ellen Stuttle]

Everything with Greg is a form of argumentum ad hominem. There is no basic reference to the truth or what it might be or how it might be discovered. When you cleave metaphysics and epistemology off of philosophy you get his intellectual second-handerism of views and opinions and birds of feather flocking together while he condescendingly pats us all on the head with the reassurance that he's just the same.

--Brant

good luck, you all, using this in science

There's a lot of it being used these days in "science" (note the scarequotes).

[Serapis Bey]

I.e., anyone who's doubtful of your honesty is so because that person disagrees with some viewpoint or other you hold. Bilge.

Ellen

His view is not unreasonable.

Woman.

There's a lot of it being used these days in "science" (note the scarequotes).

I woudn't know, but I don't doubt it.