Robertson, Of Duck Dynasty Fired For His Personal Opinions - Regarding Sexuality...

[Michael Stuart Kelly]

He really should have been a poker player. Or a jury consultant.

David,

I actually think he would be a great negotiator in a high-stakes environment.

He sure knows how to knock people with strong egos off balance.

Michael

[moralist]

It's very different. I won't even begin a business relationship with people who don't share my values... regardless of the money. I have a price, but it's not money... it's values.

A & E knew right up front that they were dealing with Christians, and they made the deal because there was good money in it for them. I'm all for that. I'll bet that company got lots of pressure from the leftist homosexual activists, so they had to cave in to the pressure from the totalitarian politically correct "word Nazis" by doing something even if it meant shooting themselves in the financial foot. If the Duck people walk out of A & E, they'll simply go to Fox and make money for them.

Phil stated his own honest personal opinion in a colorfully graphic manner, and while I might have chosen different words, I agree with the substance of what he said. And I don't even watch the program. In fact I don't watch any television at all.

Greg

So it's immoral to begin a business relationship with somebody who doesn't share 100% of your values, and Greg categorically will not do so.

Yes, I said that I don't do it. What other people choose to do is their own business. How they make money is up to them. I'm happy seeing Christians become so wildly successful and yet retain their values. There's not much of that left in America.

BUT... if A&E is already in a business relationship and discovers an entertainer doesn't share their core values, or alternatively, if A&E compromised their integrity with the hire but then later reconsidered that decision, then it's immoral for them to terminate the business relationship at any time?

Anybody following the logic here?

You need to go take your moral outrage to A&E, not to me. It's their own free choice how they do business. I have no control over or responsibility for their choices... only my own.

Greg

[Robert Baratheon]

You need to go take your moral outrage to A&E, not to me. It's their own free choice how they do business. I have no control over or responsibility for their choices... only my own.

Greg

I'm not experiencing any moral outrage, which is why I called it a "fake controversy" in post #2. I don't care what happens to Duck Dipshit, or A&E, or the gay activists, or any of the players in this story.

Your statement has nothing to do with the point I raised, which you still haven't addressed: how is A&E firing their employee over a difference in values any different from your refusal to do business with people with different values?

[moralist]

Moralist,

You wouldn't sell to customers who attend a church you don't approve?

You're way off on the wrong track, Reidy. I simply stated that I don't do business with people who do not share my values. How did in the heck did you get approved church attendance or movies or fashion out of that? When none of those things have anything to do with values.

It's impossible to do business with people who don't share your values...

...because when there is no trust, there can't be a meeting of the minds...

...and where there isn't a meeting of the minds, there can't be a business agreement that won't be betrayed...

...and by the time you've been betrayed you've already been sucked down in the smelly legalese slime with the detritus feeders just as you deserve.

Not doing business with people who don't share my values is how I remain free of all that nonsense.

Greg

[moralist]

Moralist,

You wouldn't sell to customers who attend a church you don't approve? You wouldn't hire employees who don't like the same movies? You wouldn't buy from suppliers whose fashion sense isn't yours? What business are you in anyway? Perhaps I should ask: what are your values anyway?

If I weren't so fundamentally kind I would answer this for Greg and save him the trouble.

I'd rather speak for myself (and I already did) as I do a much better job of it.

You see, Reidy, Greg can read minds. At a glance, no less. That skill helps greatly when it comes to judging others.

It's not necessary to read minds, but rather to understand the intentions of others. Everyone gives off lots of signals of what they're about. And when two decent people share the same values, each tacitly recognizes the trustworthiness of the other, and that's how durable profitable mutually beneficial business relationships are formed that last for decades.

This is the secret of success in business:

Being trustworthy by upholding the trust of those who are worthy of your trust.

He really should have been a poker player.

Poker is lots of fun.

Or a jury consultant.

You'll never find me anywhere near the legal system because that's where the lying snakes patiently wait for anyone who deserves to become their prey.

Greg

[Robert Baratheon]

It's impossible to do business with people who don't share your values...

...because when there is no trust, there can't be a meeting of the minds...

...and where there isn't a meeting of the minds, there can't be a business agreement that won't be betrayed...

...and by the time you've been betrayed you've already been sucked down in the smelly legalese slime with the detritus feeders just as you deserve.

Not doing business with people who don't share my values is how I remain free of all that nonsense.

Greg

I sold a wooden dresser last month to somebody I met through Craigslist. I have no idea what his values were, but in all likelihood I don't share them. He needed a bookshelf, and I needed to get rid of a bookshelf. Nobody was betrayed by anybody. It worked out fine.

[moralist]

Your statement has nothing to do with the point I raised, which you still haven't addressed: how is A&E firing their employee over a difference in values any different from your refusal to do business with people with different values?

You're commenting as if I didn't answer so here it is again. The answer is exactly the same as the first time.

It's very different. I won't even begin a business relationship with people who don't share my values... regardless of the money. I have a price, but it's not money... it's values.

You're never going to understand this because the values you live by are completely different from the values I live by.

Greg

[KacyRay]

Greg, what would you do if you had a business relationship with someone who you were certain shared your values, only to find out a few years later that they had changed and were now publicly expressing views that ran contrary to your values? Would you continue your business relationship with them? Or would you cut ties?

I think there is some cross-posting going on due to RB being in the moderation process. Makes dialogue difficult, I think.

[KacyRay]

You need to go take your moral outrage to A&E, not to me. It's their own free choice how they do business. I have no control over or responsibility for their choices... only my own.

Golly you types love to project your imagined emotions onto others, don'tcha? What is the deal with telling other people how they feel about something? It would never occur to me to do that, but I see it all over the place.

[Selene]

'...you types...'

Define please all mighty "Type Master."

[KacyRay]

The types that resort to polemic demagoguery due to the lack of a cogent position.

Those types.

[moralist]

Greg, what would you do if you had a business relationship with someone who you were certain shared your values, only to find out a few years later that they had changed and were now publicly expressing views that ran contrary to your values?

You expressed your question in that particular manner because Liberals tend to regard values more as espousing the collective popular consensus of approved politically correct views. Whereas Conservatives tend to regard values more as peoples' actual behavior. This is why liberals blame (unjustly accuse) society, or corporations, or racism, or poverty, for people who do evil... while Conservatives hold people personally responsible for the evil that they do. This is why far more liberals are word Nazis than Conservatives. Liberals feel that they can control people externally through the totalitarian dictatorial control over words as determined by the shrill outraged feminized shrieks from their perpetually emotionally offended victims.

So bottom line:

I couldn't care less about peoples' dogma... only their actual behavior really matters. People can hold all sorts of different beliefs, and yet be decent honest and upright in their actual behavior.

Greg

[KacyRay]

Greg, what would you do if you had a business relationship with someone who you were certain shared your values, only to find out a few years later that they had changed and were now publicly expressing views that ran contrary to your values?

Liberals tend to regard values more as espousing the collective popular consensus of approved politically correct views. Whereas Conservatives tend to regard values more as peoples' actual behavior. This is why liberals blame society for people who do evil... while Conservatives hold people personally responsible for the evil that they do. This is why far more liberals are word Nazis than Conservatives. They feel that they can control people externally through the totalitarian dictatorial control over words.

So bottom line:

Peoples' dogma doesn't matter to me... only their actual behavior really matters. People can hold all sorts of different beliefs, and yet be decent honest and upright in their actual behavior.

Greg

I will rephrase...

What would you do if you had a business relationship with someone who you were certain shared your values, only to find out a few years later that they had changed and were now behaving in ways that ran contrary to your values?

[PDS]

Greg, what would you do if you had a business relationship with someone who you were certain shared your values, only to find out a few years later that they had changed and were now publicly expressing views that ran contrary to your values?

Liberals tend to regard values more as espousing the collective popular consensus of approved politically correct views. Whereas Conservatives tend to regard values more as peoples' actual behavior. This is why liberals blame society for people who do evil... while Conservatives hold people personally responsible for the evil that they do. This is why far more liberals are word Nazis than Conservatives. They feel that they can control people externally through the totalitarian dictatorial control over words.

So bottom line:

Peoples' dogma doesn't matter to me... only their actual behavior really matters. People can hold all sorts of different beliefs, and yet be decent honest and upright in their actual behavior.

Greg

I will rephrase...

What would you do if you had a business relationship with someone who you were certain shared your values, only to find out a few years later that they had changed and were now behaving in ways that ran contrary to your values?

Let the Whack A Mole games begin!

[KacyRay]

Liberals tend to regard values more as espousing the collective popular consensus of approved politically correct views. Whereas Conservatives tend to regard values more as peoples' actual behavior. This is why liberals blame society for people who do evil... while Conservatives hold people personally responsible for the evil that they do. This is why far more liberals are word Nazis than Conservatives. They feel that they can control people externally through the totalitarian dictatorial control over words.

By the way... I don't want to give the appearance that I agree with any of this by being silent about it. I think this is all garbage.

I am going to ignore the tribal designations, and speak to the point. Sometimes people recognize that ideas, principles, and convictions are attached to the words people choose to use. When you use the word "nigger" (I don't give a damn whether you abbreviate it or not, you still used the word) you communicate your convictions. You communicate your ideas. You deliberately express a specific sentiment. You communicate your values and convictions.

You are intelligent enough to know that there are dozens of words you could have chosen to identify black folks.

What's more, you are intelligent enough to know that you didn't even need to identify them as black folks, because, for reasons I've already articulated, their race is but one thing that all those criminals share in common. You could have called them "thugs", you could have called them "hooligans" or "criminals". But no, you chose not only to identify them by a racial commonality, but you deliberately chose a term than denigrates not only the thugs in question, but every member of the race they happen to be part of.

Your cop-out is transparent. "Oh, I just focus on actions! Not words! Liberals focus on words!"

"Word Nazi's" and "liberals" are nothing more than ad homs you've chosen to employ as a "get out of saying stupid shit free" card.

If no one else here wants to call you to the carpet for it, that's fine. I'll do it myself, and I'm not letting up.

[moralist]

It's impossible to do business with people who don't share your values...

...because when there is no trust, there can't be a meeting of the minds...

...and where there isn't a meeting of the minds, there can't be a business agreement that won't be betrayed...

...and by the time you've been betrayed you've already been sucked down in the smelly legalese slime with the detritus feeders just as you deserve.

Not doing business with people who don't share my values is how I remain free of all that nonsense.

Greg

I sold a wooden dresser last month to somebody I met through Craigslist. I have no idea what his values were

Yes, you do. You know by the business transaction.

Greg

[moralist]

Liberals tend to regard values more as espousing the collective popular consensus of approved politically correct views. Whereas Conservatives tend to regard values more as peoples' actual behavior. This is why liberals blame society for people who do evil... while Conservatives hold people personally responsible for the evil that they do. This is why far more liberals are word Nazis than Conservatives. They feel that they can control people externally through the totalitarian dictatorial control over words.

By the way... I don't want to give the appearance that I agree with any of this by being silent about it. I think this is all garbage.

I'm glad that you can freely express your view here, Kacey... as our differences make for entertaining conversation.

We each share only one thing in common.

We both believe that the other's view is wrong.

Greg

[KacyRay]

Yes, you do. You know by the business transaction.

Greg

I'm pretty sure I pegged you several threads ago for being someone who claims knowledge they can't possibly have.

Point made.

Now excuse me while I go buy lemonade from the little girl across the street. I'm dying to know what her values are.

[moralist]

Greg, what would you do if you had a business relationship with someone who you were certain shared your values, only to find out a few years later that they had changed and were now publicly expressing views that ran contrary to your values?

Liberals tend to regard values more as espousing the collective popular consensus of approved politically correct views. Whereas Conservatives tend to regard values more as peoples' actual behavior. This is why liberals blame society for people who do evil... while Conservatives hold people personally responsible for the evil that they do. This is why far more liberals are word Nazis than Conservatives. They feel that they can control people externally through the totalitarian dictatorial control over words.

So bottom line:

Peoples' dogma doesn't matter to me... only their actual behavior really matters. People can hold all sorts of different beliefs, and yet be decent honest and upright in their actual behavior.

Greg

I will rephrase...

What would you do if you had a business relationship with someone who you were certain shared your values, only to find out a few years later that they had changed and were now behaving in ways that ran contrary to your values?

For all practical intents and purposes, people do not change their basic view. The view you chose, you will take with you to your grave as you deserve... just as I will.

Greg

[KacyRay]

Liberals tend to regard values more as espousing the collective popular consensus of approved politically correct views. Whereas Conservatives tend to regard values more as peoples' actual behavior. This is why liberals blame society for people who do evil... while Conservatives hold people personally responsible for the evil that they do. This is why far more liberals are word Nazis than Conservatives. They feel that they can control people externally through the totalitarian dictatorial control over words.

By the way... I don't want to give the appearance that I agree with any of this by being silent about it. I think this is all garbage.

I'm glad that you can freely express your view here, Kacey... as our differences make for entertaining conversation.

We each share only one thing in common.

We both believe that the other's view is wrong.

Greg

Thanks Gregg.

As entertaining as they are... I can only imagine how much fun they would be if the ideas discussed had an actual impact! As much fun as it is to type out words, it just seems like it would be so much more fun if the ideas attached to those words were ... say... meaningful to the person reading them, right?

[KacyRay]

For all practical intents and purposes, people do not change their basic view. The view you chose, you will take with you to your grave as you deserve... just as I will.

Greg

First off, this is demonstratably false. People change their views all the time.

Secondly, if you really believe this... why do you discuss ideas at all? The only reason I can imagine would be that you enjoy reinforcing what you already believe.

[moralist]

Yes, you do. You know by the business transaction.

Greg

I'm pretty sure I pegged you several threads ago for being someone who claims knowledge they can't possibly have.

That view is drawn from your own personal experience so naturally you would regard the awareness of others as being no greater than your own.

Our awareness of others is dependent upon our own self awareness.

Greg

[Robert Baratheon]

Yes, you do. You know by the business transaction.

Your position is I know a man's values because he showed up at my house and bought a wooden dresser from me? How does that make any sense?

[moralist]

Liberals tend to regard values more as espousing the collective popular consensus of approved politically correct views. Whereas Conservatives tend to regard values more as peoples' actual behavior. This is why liberals blame society for people who do evil... while Conservatives hold people personally responsible for the evil that they do. This is why far more liberals are word Nazis than Conservatives. They feel that they can control people externally through the totalitarian dictatorial control over words.

By the way... I don't want to give the appearance that I agree with any of this by being silent about it. I think this is all garbage.

I'm glad that you can freely express your view here, Kacey... as our differences make for entertaining conversation.

We each share only one thing in common.

We both believe that the other's view is wrong.

Greg

Thanks Gregg.

As entertaining as they are... I can only imagine how much fun they would be if the ideas discussed had an actual impact! As much fun as it is to type out words, it just seems like it would be so much more fun if the ideas attached to those words were ... say... meaningful to the person reading them, right?

My experience is quite different from yours, Kacey. Because I never mistake agreement for comprehension, I find much meaning in our exchanges.

Greg

[Ellen Stuttle]

If no one else here wants to call you to the carpet for it, that's fine.

Kacy,

People's time isn't infinite, and the amount for which Greg could be called on the carpet seems to be.

Ellen