Frank's Niece!

[Cathy]

Hi Cathy,

History of health insurance and medical costs in the US from the beginning of health insurance is summarized here. The history covered there includes the introduction of Medicare, which your aunt opposed. She acknowledged that gaining health insurance under that proposed program would be a good thing for the individuals gaining it, but she argued against provision of that good thing through the government.

She argued that the only proper function of government is protection of individual rights, which meant police, courts, and national defense, not any of the other activities of government. She saw the morality of altruism, the accepted virtue of sacrificing the better-off to those in need, as the fundamental reason for the appeal of socialized medicine, including Medicare. I agree.

In my estimation, that was the fundamental reason by which the expansion under the Affordable Care Act had the popularity it did have among the electorate. I expect Ayn Rand would concur. It was a close contest to get the law passed and (largely) upheld, as you know. The blind spot—silent spot, really—of most Republican legislators was that they could not answer “But what about the good thing that about eighty million Americans who cannot afford health insurance would have it if we pass this law?” The reply that there were other ways to get them covered rang hollow, and the culture had not (yet?) been turned around against the virtue of altruism.

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

Some excerpts from The Objectivist Newsletter, the publication of Rand and her associates 1962–1965, all content approved by Rand:

“Doctors and the Police State” – Leonard Peikoff (June 1962)

Having eroded the value of everyone’s savings through decades of inflationary deficit spending, the statists have now decided to pose as champions of their own victims—specifically, those over 65 years of age. The Kennedy Administration’s King-Anderson bill proposes to finance hospital and nursing home care for the aged out of the tax money collected through the Federal Social Security system.

Nobody bothers much any more to deny that this is only a first step. There is no principle by which the State can claim to be responsible for the hospital expenses of the aged, but not for their doctors’ bills—or for the costs of those under 65 with chronic diseases—or for the psychiatric expenses of those in mental institutions— . . . or, ultimately, for everyone’s medical expenses. The leaders of the Canadian province of Saskatchewan name their purposes more openly: Premier Woodrow S. Lloyd has announced that, as of July 1 of this year, full-scale socialized medicine will be instituted throughout the province.

The statists in both countries seek to counter the protests of the medical profession by claiming that government-financed medicine is compatible with perfect freedom for the doctors. Said Secretary Ribicoff: “It should be absolutely no concern to a physician where a patient gets the money . . .”

The truth is, that it is a matter of life and death concern. He who pays the money for a service is morally obligated to see that he receives full value in return: he must set the terms, conditions and standards governing his expenditures. . . . If it is the government that does the paying, then the government has to decide who is qualified to receive its money—how much a particular service is worth—under what conditions that service is necessary and under what conditions it is merely a squandering of State funds . . .

. . .

By what moral principle are the doctors to be deprived of their right to practice their profession as free men? By the principle of altruism: the principle that man is a sacrificial animal, that the only justification of his existence is the service he renders to others, and that any consideration or concern for the men who provide the services is irrelevant. . . .

. . .

When altruism reaches so corrupt a stage, its full meaning comes out into the open. The emphasis changes from love to obedience, from handouts to handcuffs, from the Welfare State to the Police State.

It is happening now in the United States. Some two hundred New Jersey doctors, led by Dr. J. Bruce Henriksen, signed a petition of protest against the King-Anderson bill. They declared that they would continue voluntarily to treat the indigent aged without charge, but that they would refuse to treat anyone whose medical care was financed under the government’s plan. The meaning of their action was clear-cut; it cannot be evaded and it had nothing to do with the needy. It was the action free men have always taken to protest an advancing dictatorship: the statement that they will not sanction, help, or participate in the growth of slavery.

What was the response they received? “Greedy private doctors,” charged Zalmen J. Lichtenstein, executive director of the Golden Ring Council of Senior Citizens. “A breach of ethics as bad as anything else I could imagine,” declared New Jersey Governor Hughes. . . .

“The attitude of these doctors in opposition to a basic national need is shocking,” said Secretary Ribicoff. . .

Harry S. Truman summarized the humanitarian viewpoint in its most eloquent form. Asked what he thought of the doctors’ revolt, he replied: “I think they ought to be hit over the head with a club.”

The club was not long in coming. . . .

In February of 1963, Ayn Rand addressed a meeting of the Ocean County Medical Society, which included among its members Dr. Henriksen and his associates in the protest. Portions of her address appeared in The Objectivist Newsletter the following month.

“How Not to Fight against Socialized Medicine”

I am happy to have this opportunity to express my admiration for Dr. Henriksen and the group of doctors who signed his resolution.

. . . More than any other single factor, it was Dr. Henriksen’s group that demonstrated to the public the real nature of the issue, prevented the passage of the King-Anderson bill and saved this country from socialized medicine—so far.

. . .

The majority of people in this country—and in the world—do not want to adopt socialism; yet it is growing. It is growing because its victims concede its basic moral premises. Without challenging these premises, one cannot win.

. . .

Consider, for instance, the outcome of the Canadian doctors’ struggle in Saskatchewan. The doctors had gone on strike against the full-scale socialized medicine instituted by the provincial government. They won the battle—and lost the war; in exchange for a few superficial concessions, they surrendered the principle for which they had been fighting: to permit no socialized medicine in the Western hemisphere.

They surrendered, even though the overwhelming sympathy and support of the Canadian people were on their side (except for the intellectuals and the labor unions). They were defeated, not by the power of the socialists, but by the gaping holes in their own ideological armor. . . .

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

The text of Paul Ryan’s convention speech is here. . . .

Mr. Ryan walked in the garden extending one hand to doctrines of Jesus, the other hand to doctrines of Ayn Rand. Jesus would not take that hand, neither would Rand take the other. Ryan finds that he and Gov. Romney share the same faith-based, self-evident, and largely equivocal, moral creed. It includes the proposition that “the greatest of all responsibilities, is that of the strong to protect the weak.” Indeed, “the truest measure of any society is how it treats those who cannot defend or care for themselves.” All of them? Or are some of the weak and helpless deserving of assistance (by government, to be sure) and others not? There is some difference here with Obama, evidently, on who should be aided.

. . .

Hi Stephen, being a Christian, I believe all is deserving of medical treatment. I wouldn't be able to take it mentally that someone suffering, in pain, or dying, and there is someone right there to help them and wouldn't. But some emergency rooms do turn people away because they cant pay or even for religious beliefs. My Aunt Agnes also had an abortion. She was hemorrhaging afterwards and went to St Joseph hospital (the hospital where both my grand parents died at), they seen her hemorrhaging was due to an abortion and turned her away. St Joe's was a catholic hospital , which were against abortions. She almost died, and had to go a long way to a hospital that would help her. I understand the right to life, but the abortion already happened, but her life wasn't as valuable as an unborn child? I don't understand the theory of that. I hate the fact that people who live in welfare get full medical benefits, but yet the people who work,(like me and my husband) whose employer doesn't provide health insurance, or the cost would take most of their check, cant get medical through the state. I don't know what would make it better, but I don't think Obama care is the answer either. I think when it comes into effect, things are going to get really crazy for awhile. I don't think the care people will receive will be worth what they pay for it, and there will be a lot of malpractice suits, because doctors wont be able to give their full attention to one person because of being over worked. I still like the lottery example the best, and I don't think Americans would mind that. Do you think that that would be possible? I know in Georgia, part of the lottery is used for Georgia residence to get free college education, it called the hope scholarship. If one state can do that to educate its citizens, then why cant the whole country do that to make sure we have health care? I don't even play the lottery (I never win) but I would be willing to buy a ticket even if I know I wouldn't win, if it would help someone else medically. Thank you Stephen for trying to explain all this, I am so confused about why the ones who believe in Obama health care plan are so happy about it. ~Cathy~

[Mikee]

Hi Kathy,

I'm reminded of my memories of how much the children agency workers in Ohio actually cared for the children in their charge. In my experience very little or none. The Obama health care law is no different. Presumably "Health Care"; in actuality the ultimate tool to strip the last vestige of privacy and constitutional rights from individuals in this country. Health care will be worse not better, the individuals "practicing" health care will be less competent and more cynical than ever before. Of course, this situation will have to be "fixed" too, with more rules and regulations and more bureaucrats unqualified to practice medicine but "in charge" of all who will. Except now it will be "cheaters" causing the problems, more oversight will be necessary, more intrusion less freedom. I understand they won't send you a bill, just debit your account directly because they have access by law to all your records and accounts. "We have to pass it so we can see what's in it"... Get a rope...

[Selene]

Now isn't this special...

"Maryland's Health Connection, the state's Obamacare marketplace, has been plagued by delays in the first days of open enrollment. If users are able to endure long page-loading delays, they are presented with the website's privacy policy, a ubiquitous fine-print feature on websites that often go unread. Nevertheless, users are asked to check off a box that they agree to the terms."

Should you decide to apply for health coverage through Maryland Health Connection, the information you supply in your application will be used to determine whether you are eligible for health and dental coverage offered through Maryland Health Connection and for insurance affordability programs. It also may be used to assist you in making a payment for the insurance plan you select, and for related automated reminders or other activities permitted by law. We will preserve the privacy of personal records and protect confidential or privileged information in full accordance with federal and State law. We will not sell your information to others. Any information that you provide to us in your application will be used only to carry out the functions of Maryland Health Connection. The only exception to this policy is that we may share information provided in your application with the appropriate authorities for law enforcement and audit activities.

And...

The second privacy term that may prompt caution by users relates to email communications. The policy reads:

If you send us an e-mail, we use the information you send us to respond to your inquiry. E-mail correspondence may become a public record. As a public record, your correspondence could be disclosed to other parties upon their request in accordance with Maryland’s Public Information Act.

http://www.weeklystandard.com/blogs/obamacare-marketplace-personal-data-can-be-used-law-enforcement-a

[Michael Stuart Kelly]

Cathy,

Heh.

I saw you got in a tangle on Facebook over Rand. The first thing out of the guy's mouth when you mentioned Rand is that she is a piece of shit.

Now you know some of the problem,

People like that won't change and they won't stop. Sometimes you can get through to them, not to convince them, but to get them to be civil, but that's rare. They have a core storyline where Rand is a villain and the way to discuss her is snark while ignoring the ideas. And that's where they default to.

Believe me, that guy (meaning him and people like him) wants to tell you what to do and what to think. And if you disagree, he will nudge like he is doing (for you to be "reasonable" of course), but if you continue disagreeing, or even asking for an explanation, the final result will be SIT DOWN AND SHUT UP!

You have now been baptized.

Michael

[Backlighting]

Cathy,

Heh.

I saw you got in a tangle on Facebook over Rand. The first thing out of the guy's mouth when you mentioned Rand is that she is a piece of shit.

Now you know some of the problem,

People like that won't change and they won't stop. Sometimes you can get through to them, not to convince them, but to get them to be civil, but that's rare. They have a core storyline where Rand is a villain and the way to discuss her is snark while ignoring the ideas. And that's where they default to.

Believe me, that guy (meaning him and people like him) wants to tell you what to do and what to think. And if you disagree, he will nudge like he is doing (for you to be "reasonable" of course), but if you continue disagreeing, or even asking for an explanation, the final result will be SIT DOWN AND SHUT UP!

You have now been baptized.

Michael

Imagine how Ayn felt during the years just after the publication of AS. The hatred, the insults, distortion & outright lies she heard & saw about her.

[Cathy]

Hi Kathy,

I'm reminded of my memories of how much the children agency workers in Ohio actually cared for the children in their charge. In my experience very little or none. The Obama health care law is no different. Presumably "Health Care"; in actuality the ultimate tool to strip the last vestige of privacy and constitutional rights from individuals in this country. Health care will be worse not better, the individuals "practicing" health care will be less competent and more cynical than ever before. Of course, this situation will have to be "fixed" too, with more rules and regulations and more bureaucrats unqualified to practice medicine but "in charge" of all who will. Except now it will be "cheaters" causing the problems, more oversight will be necessary, more intrusion less freedom. I understand they won't send you a bill, just debit your account directly because they have access by law to all your records and accounts. "We have to pass it so we can see what's in it"... Get a rope...

Mikee, I agree. I want a better future for my grandkids, but nothing has changed. I do fear our country will be worse than ever. It scares me that the government will have access to everything we have. All this I believe started along time ago where our government is trying to control every aspect of ourlives...at least I feel its headed that way. Its was good to hear from you again. I hope you are doing well ~Cathy~

[Cathy]

Cathy,

Heh.

I saw you got in a tangle on Facebook over Rand. The first thing out of the guy's mouth when you mentioned Rand is that she is a piece of shit.

Now you know some of the problem,

People like that won't change and they won't stop. Sometimes you can get through to them, not to convince them, but to get them to be civil, but that's rare. They have a core storyline where Rand is a villain and the way to discuss her is snark while ignoring the ideas. And that's where they default to.

Believe me, that guy (meaning him and people like him) wants to tell you what to do and what to think. And if you disagree, he will nudge like he is doing (for you to be "reasonable" of course), but if you continue disagreeing, or even asking for an explanation, the final result will be SIT DOWN AND SHUT UP!

You have now been baptized.

Michael

I know what you mean ugh!!! I am exhausted from it all. I feel like he is bullying me to his thinking by calling me ignorant. He is always insulting me and others who doesn't think his view point is right. I use to be best friends with him in 7th grade. He is very smart and he is a translator for different countries. But just because he is smarter than me doesn't mean he is right. I do see now how Aunt Alice was up against...he doesn't know she is my aunt. God, I would play hell for that one if he knew! I can see certain parts of her philosophy very clear now...some of it. But I can also see why my father kept us away from it. If there were people like the one on facebook tonight, being like that back then, I don't think I would want my kids around that either. But she could hold her own...much better than I can and I hate that about myself. This certainly was a reality check for me on what she had to ordeal, and with many more people. I am starting to admire Ayn Rand thx Michael

[Cathy]

Cathy,

Heh.

I saw you got in a tangle on Facebook over Rand. The first thing out of the guy's mouth when you mentioned Rand is that she is a piece of shit.

Now you know some of the problem,

People like that won't change and they won't stop. Sometimes you can get through to them, not to convince them, but to get them to be civil, but that's rare. They have a core storyline where Rand is a villain and the way to discuss her is snark while ignoring the ideas. And that's where they default to.

Believe me, that guy (meaning him and people like him) wants to tell you what to do and what to think. And if you disagree, he will nudge like he is doing (for you to be "reasonable" of course), but if you continue disagreeing, or even asking for an explanation, the final result will be SIT DOWN AND SHUT UP!

You have now been baptized.

Michael

Imagine how Ayn felt during the years just after the publication of AS. The hatred, the insults, distortion & outright lies she heard & saw about her.

I can imagine! I am just in amazement about her. She really was everything wasn't she...so many different sides to her... I am finding out the hard way and people can be so snotty about her. He called her a piece of shit...I wanted to jump through the computer screen and beat his ass! Everything she has overcame and achieved being in this country, and have someone call her a piece of shit! She is more than he could ever be!

[Selene]

I can imagine! I am just in amazement about her. She really was everything wasn't she...so many different sides to her... I am finding out the hard way and people can be so snotty about her. He called her a piece of shit...I wanted to jump through the computer screen and beat his ass! Everything she has overcame and achieved being in this country, and have someone call her a piece of shit! She is more than he could ever be!

Cathy:

Which is precisely why he is not "smarter" than you.

In point of fact, he has demonstrated his ignorance, and, frankly, his insecurity about meeting her ideas wiht better ideas.

You need not sink to his insecurities.

Ask him questions.

Can you cut and paste the conversation with him from your facebook page?

A...

[Cathy]

I can imagine! I am just in amazement about her. She really was everything wasn't she...so many different sides to her... I am finding out the hard way and people can be so snotty about her. He called her a piece of shit...I wanted to jump through the computer screen and beat his ass! Everything she has overcame and achieved being in this country, and have someone call her a piece of shit! She is more than he could ever be!

Cathy:

Which is precisely why he is not "smarter" than you.

In point of fact, he has demonstrated his ignorance, and, frankly, his insecurity about meeting her ideas wiht better ideas.

You need not sink to his insecurities.

Ask him questions.

Can you cut and paste the conversation with him from your facebook page?

A...

I will try.

[Cathy]

Brad Cahill I have seen that post now 5 or 6 times from people all over the country who found it on the internet. Just for the fun of it Cathy O'Connor Dupler, did you bother to put down your glass of Kool-Aid long enough to check the factualness of this, or run a comparative exercise to validate it? Of course not - It is on the web, it validates your anger, so it must be true...right?

8 hours ago · Edited · Like..

Cathy O'Connor Dupler This is what Paul Ryan had to say

7 hours ago · Like..

Cathy O'Connor Dupler And the biggest, coldest power play of all in Obamacare came at the expense of the elderly.

You see, even with all the hidden taxes to pay for the health care takeover, even with new taxes on nearly a million small businesses, the planners in Washington still didn’t have enough money. They needed more. They needed hundreds of billions more. So, they just took it all away from Medicare. Seven hundred and sixteen billion dollars, funneled out of Medicare by President Obama. An obligation we have to our parents and grandparents is being sacrificed, all to pay for a new entitlement we didn’t even ask for. The greatest threat to Medicare is Obamacare,

7 hours ago · Like..

Brad Cahill oh and he is so credible...

7 hours ago · Like..

Cathy O'Connor Dupler what about Obama's credibility?

7 hours ago · Like..

Brad Cahill Paul Ryan wants you in slavery to the 1% - good role model for you Cathy...

7 hours ago · Like..

Cathy O'Connor Dupler Who is going to win with Obama?

[Cathy]

Brad Cahill I think he is credible - he has made some mistakes, but all in all is a good role model - you have bought into the propaganda, and refuse to actually research what you say, so obviously he is evil incarnate to you - which is what they want you to believe.

7 hours ago · Like..

Brad Cahill it is so easy to spew ignorance, but there are ways to find out what is actually happening out there, not just what one wants you to believe - it is all about seeking data before opening mouth...

7 hours ago · Like..

Cathy O'Connor Dupler this is what Ayn Rand had to say of what our government was to become years before it even happened.

7 hours ago · Like..

Cathy O'Connor Dupler There wasn’t a man voting for it who didn’t think that under a setup of this kind he’d muscle in on the profits of the men abler than himself. There wasn’t a man rich and smart enough but that he didn’t think that somebody was richer and smarter, and this plan would give him a share of his better’s wealth and brain. But while he was thinking that he’d get unearned benefits from the men above, he forgot about the men below who’d get unearned benefits, too. He forgot about all his inferiors who’d rush to drain him just as he hoped to drain his superiors

7 hours ago · Like..

Brad Cahill And SHE is a pathetic piece of shit!

7 hours ago · Like..

Cathy O'Connor Dupler LOL are u more superior than Paul Ryan and Ayn Rand? Are you calling them ignorant?

7 hours ago · Like..

Cathy O'Connor Dupler She is a pathetic piece of shit...she's been dead for over thirty years, her books are taught in college to this day. Her books sell second best to the bible, The third sequel to her movie Atlas Shrugged comes out this summer. Really Brad....thought u were smarter than that...u truly disappoint me

[Cathy]

Brad Cahill What college would teach her, except as extremism? I would love to know where you got the fact her book sells 2nd to the Bible. and as to my intellect - to each his/her own...

7 hours ago · Like

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  Cathy O'Connor Dupler She must know something u don't...she predicted the out come of our government years before it happened. Look her up Brad before u spew ignorance about her out of ur mouth...like pathetic. Or better yet...READ!!!! for starters, read Atlas Shrugged, true its a huge book, but I have faith that maybe u will be able to comprehend it

  
  

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  Brad Cahill I have read it Cathy - and it is shite, and the Koch brothers and other creators of the Tea Party use her paranoid class-ism to create the type of fear mongering you have been spewing here. As your friend Sandra pointed out - the post is bullshit designed to inflame the likes of you who do not bother to look deeper than Fox News. But you cannot be changed, because not once have you admitted to researching before commenting - so they have your soul. My kids used to like strawberry kiwi Kool-Aid - give it a go.

  
  

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  Cathy O'Connor Dupler I do like Kool-Aid Brad...its been around for years! It has never changed and our country buys it up. Our country should have listened to her "paranoid class-ism" years ago, but its to late...its here now. Small minded people have a way of belittling others to make them feel not as intellectually capable of knowing or making them believe that don't see or hear the truth of what is really happening, even when it is right in their face. I see everyday what is happening in this country, and why it is happening. I am not ignorant Brad, no matter how many times u call me that. I work and pay taxes just like u do, and if u like what our contry has become...than really...u are the ignorant one!

  
  

  
  

  
  

  
  

  
  
  
  

[Cathy]

Brad Cahill Okay - fair enough to say you see what they want you to see. Where in all this discourse have you agreed to research both sides of an argument - and yet, it is I who is ignorant... whatever...

6 hours ago · Like..

Cathy O'Connor Dupler BTW, I do the research, but because the research I have done isn't the way you perceive the running of our government doesn't mean ur way is the only way or the right way. I wanted Obama the first term. I couldn't believe he got a second term. Why don't you view both sides? Our government was not intended to over ride the constitution, or force us to pay for things the government thinks is best for us, that's communism! When that happens, when we are forced, it means its only the best for the government. Why cant u see that. When we give the government power to force us to pay for something we didn't vote in or ask for, that is giving the government free rein over us, they now control our money more so than ever. Next it will be something else until they have all control.

6 hours ago · Like..

Ronnie Campbell And if the healthcare is so great...which it isnt..why isnt the president,congress and senate on it??? why because it's a disaster and it's only gona get worse..why are you being fined if its suppose to be free insurance...hmmmmm..because this president is a liar..and if something isnt done he can come in and take complete control..why did he do the vote in secret behind closed doors with no republicians present?!?!?!?!

3 hours ago · Like..

Brad Cahill wow - your friends are more misinformed than you Cathy - stunning! you must be a hoot to have a beer or two with...

[Brant Gaede]

I don't really understand the attraction of either Facebook or Twitter. Why are people filling their heads with noise? I do see some of the utility--it's the casual socialness I don't gork. And then any asshole--aka the lowest common denominator--who wants to, gets to traduce and bully at will.

--Brant

the Zorro of the Internet (swish, slash, poke, poke, poke!)

[Cathy]

Brad Cahill Okay - fair enough to say you see what they want you to see. Where in all this discourse have you agreed to research both sides of an argument - and yet, it is I who is ignorant... whatever...

6 hours ago · Like..

Cathy O'Connor Dupler BTW, I do the research, but because the research I have done isn't the way you perceive the running of our government doesn't mean ur way is the only way or the right way. I wanted Obama the first term. I couldn't believe he got a second term. Why don't you view both sides? Our government was not intended to over ride the constitution, or force us to pay for things the government thinks is best for us, that's communism! When that happens, when we are forced, it means its only the best for the government. Why cant u see that. When we give the government power to force us to pay for something we didn't vote in or ask for, that is giving the government free rein over us, they now control our money more so than ever. Next it will be something else until they have all control.

6 hours ago · Like..

Ronnie Campbell And if the healthcare is so great...which it isnt..why isnt the president,congress and senate on it??? why because it's a disaster and it's only gona get worse..why are you being fined if its suppose to be free insurance...hmmmmm..because this president is a liar..and if something isnt done he can come in and take complete control..why did he do the vote in secret behind closed doors with no republicians present?!?!?!?!

3 hours ago · Like..

Brad Cahill wow - your friends are more misinformed than you Cathy - stunning! you must be a hoot to have a beer or two with...

I should have told him I only drink Kool-Aid.

[Michael Stuart Kelly]

She is more than he could ever be!

Cathy,

Don't worry. He knows it.

Why do you think he only looks down his nose and snarks at you?

Ayn Rand is taken seriously in high places throughout the world. Her influence with intelligent people of action literally stops jerks with an authoritarian bent from taking over for once and for all. Your friend knows it. He's not stupid. Believe me, he knows it.

Ayn Rand mucks up his inner control freak. And that really pisses him off.

Michael

[Cathy]

I wish she was here to tell him off

[Cathy]

I don't really understand the attraction of either Facebook or Twitter. Why are people filling their heads with noise? I do see some of the utility--it's the casual socialness I don't gork. And then any asshole--aka the lowest common denominator--who wants to, gets to traduce and bully at will.

--Brant

the Zorro of the Internet (swish, slash, poke, poke, poke!)

Hi Brant! I have facebook because I have children out of state. this way they can talk to me and send me pictures. I woke up this morning with a headache from all this. Now Conny is starting on me about it ugh! I wish my dad would have let Aunt Alice inform us of some of her philosophies...maybe I would be better prepared. I just think our government should work for us, but it seems we work for them. Then you get someone like Brad on there who wants to insult me and my friends, even Aunt Alice and Paul Ryan, and all he's doing is skirting around the issues. Bullying us, instead of proving his point. I am not in his league to win the debate, I don't like arguing (I will if I have to)but I am not good at it. I got extremely upset when he called Aunt Alice a pathetic piece of shit. I am still upset about it. Everything she went through right from the beginning when she came here, learning, struggling, and hatred...she is more than I ever thought she was. When he called her that...I felt this over whelming need to protect her...not Aunt Alice, but Ayn Rand! Can you believe it! I think the two are coming together for me. BTW I have a cane corso named Zorro ~Cathy~

[caroljane]

Cathy, you mentioned that neither you nor your husband can get health coverage from your employerers, or from the state. This is the situation of millions of working people and, simplistically speaking, it is the problem that health care reformists have tried to solve by proposing various forms of Federal action. Did you know that the Affordable Care Act is in fact based on a Republican plan? The Heritage Foundation developed is for the Bob Dole campaign.?

Of course now it is just a political and ideological football in the schoolyard standoff that Congress has become.

[Brant Gaede]

I don't really understand the attraction of either Facebook or Twitter. Why are people filling their heads with noise? I do see some of the utility--it's the casual socialness I don't gork. And then any asshole--aka the lowest common denominator--who wants to, gets to traduce and bully at will.

--Brant

the Zorro of the Internet (swish, slash, poke, poke, poke!)

Hi Brant! I have facebook because I have children out of state. this way they can talk to me and send me pictures. I woke up this morning with a headache from all this. Now Conny is starting on me about it ugh! I wish my dad would have let Aunt Alice inform us of some of her philosophies...maybe I would be better prepared. I just think our government should work for us, but it seems we work for them. Then you get someone like Brad on there who wants to insult me and my friends, even Aunt Alice and Paul Ryan, and all he's doing is skirting around the issues. Bullying us, instead of proving his point. I am not in his league to win the debate, I don't like arguing (I will if I have to)but I am not good at it. I got extremely upset when he called Aunt Alice a pathetic piece of shit. I am still upset about it. Everything she went through right from the beginning when she came here, learning, struggling, and hatred...she is more than I ever thought she was. When he called her that...I felt this over whelming need to protect her...not Aunt Alice, but Ayn Rand! Can you believe it! I think the two are coming together for me. BTW I have a cane corso named Zorro ~Cathy~

If someone attacks Ayn Rand the person it's a logical fallacy. That should be pointed out, not that her or her views are being misrepresented. That would be mud-wrestling and sanction.

--Brant

then you disengage

[Cathy]

I don't really understand the attraction of either Facebook or Twitter. Why are people filling their heads with noise? I do see some of the utility--it's the casual socialness I don't gork. And then any asshole--aka the lowest common denominator--who wants to, gets to traduce and bully at will.

--Brant

the Zorro of the Internet (swish, slash, poke, poke, poke!)

Hi Brant! I have facebook because I have children out of state. this way they can talk to me and send me pictures. I woke up this morning with a headache from all this. Now Conny is starting on me about it ugh! I wish my dad would have let Aunt Alice inform us of some of her philosophies...maybe I would be better prepared. I just think our government should work for us, but it seems we work for them. Then you get someone like Brad on there who wants to insult me and my friends, even Aunt Alice and Paul Ryan, and all he's doing is skirting around the issues. Bullying us, instead of proving his point. I am not in his league to win the debate, I don't like arguing (I will if I have to)but I am not good at it. I got extremely upset when he called Aunt Alice a pathetic piece of shit. I am still upset about it. Everything she went through right from the beginning when she came here, learning, struggling, and hatred...she is more than I ever thought she was. When he called her that...I felt this over whelming need to protect her...not Aunt Alice, but Ayn Rand! Can you believe it! I think the two are coming together for me. BTW I have a cane corso named Zorro ~Cathy~

If someone attacks Ayn Rand the person it's a logical fallacy. That should be pointed out, not that her or her views are being misrepresented. That would be mud-wrestling and sanction.

--Brant

then you disengage

Your a nice man Brant, and I like you lots! But damn, do I ever have a hard time knowing what your saying without a dictionary! You could win an argument with me very easily

[caroljane]

I will help you out Cathy! If someone attacks Ayn Rand the person it is the logical fallacy of adhominem. If someone attacks Brant Gaede the person it is the logical fallacy of Reductio ad Absurdum BOOM! Attacker is reduced to his original components. , or as SCTV had it, blowed up real good.

[Brant Gaede]

I don't really understand the attraction of either Facebook or Twitter. Why are people filling their heads with noise? I do see some of the utility--it's the casual socialness I don't gork. And then any asshole--aka the lowest common denominator--who wants to, gets to traduce and bully at will.

--Brant

the Zorro of the Internet (swish, slash, poke, poke, poke!)

Hi Brant! I have facebook because I have children out of state. this way they can talk to me and send me pictures. I woke up this morning with a headache from all this. Now Conny is starting on me about it ugh! I wish my dad would have let Aunt Alice inform us of some of her philosophies...maybe I would be better prepared. I just think our government should work for us, but it seems we work for them. Then you get someone like Brad on there who wants to insult me and my friends, even Aunt Alice and Paul Ryan, and all he's doing is skirting around the issues. Bullying us, instead of proving his point. I am not in his league to win the debate, I don't like arguing (I will if I have to)but I am not good at it. I got extremely upset when he called Aunt Alice a pathetic piece of shit. I am still upset about it. Everything she went through right from the beginning when she came here, learning, struggling, and hatred...she is more than I ever thought she was. When he called her that...I felt this over whelming need to protect her...not Aunt Alice, but Ayn Rand! Can you believe it! I think the two are coming together for me. BTW I have a cane corso named Zorro ~Cathy~

If someone attacks Ayn Rand the person it's a logical fallacy. That should be pointed out, not that her or her views are being misrepresented. That would be mud-wrestling and sanction.

--Brant

then you disengage

Your a nice man Brant, and I like you lots! But damn, do I ever have a hard time knowing what your saying without a dictionary! You could win an argument with me very easily

Because I'm nice I don't generally try to win arguments. I've discovered there is no such thing respecting the person you are arguing with. But sometimes it's too much fun and I can't help myself!

--Brant

Clarice: the world is a much more interesting place with you in it--and I expect the same consideration in return

[Cathy]

Cathy, you mentioned that neither you nor your husband can get health coverage from your employerers, or from the state. This is the situation of millions of working people and, simplistically speaking, it is the problem that health care reformists have tried to solve by proposing various forms of Federal action. Did you know that the Affordable Care Act is in fact based on a Republican plan? The Heritage Foundation developed is for the Bob Dole campaign.?

Of course now it is just a political and ideological football in the schoolyard standoff that Congress has become.

Wasn't it introduce sometime in 09? I maybe wrong (nothing new) but was summited into law until Obama passed it with his overview of it? Why did Obama sneak behind close doors with out republicans there to sign it. Or am I reading to much research and am getting confused (nothing new there to) ~Cathy~