CNA

Thanks you guys for those posts and clarifying some of the terminology. I haven't had a lot of time to go through the site probably in several weeks now as I have been falling behind with work, my son, and a recent family tragedy. But ocassionally, when I can find the time, I'm slowly going through the site again. I did a little bit lastnight, not much, but some and keeping these terms in mind did help me understand better what everyone was talking about. I've put up a few posts recently but that's about it unfortunately. But hopefully will soon when things aren't so hectic. But thank you for the posts. It clarified a lot and has helped me understand better what everyone is talking about. Angie

Here is another song that is very personal for me as well as Neil I am sure. The lyrics in this song I'm sure will ring a bell to someone in here that I've been talking with privately as well as one other I've expressed my thoughts to about this. My private buddy...this one is for you !!! You know who you are. Enjoy the song and I hope you get this album. A lot of very personal information in here and some things are better kept private !!!! :D/ :D/ Scars Rush (Presto) I've stood upon my mountaintop And shouted at the sky Walked above the pavement With my senses amplified I get this feeling... All my nerves are naked wires Tender to the touch Sometimes super sensitive But who can care too much? I get this feeling... Scars of pleasure Scars of pain Atmospheric changes Make them sensitive again Each emotional injury Leaves behind its mark Sometimes they come tumbling out Like shadows in the dark I get this feeling... When I think about all I have seen And all I'll never see When I think about the people Who have opened up to me I get this feeling... Snow falls deep around my house And holds the winter light I've heard the lions hunting In the Serengeti night I get this feeling... Forests turned to factories And river, sea, and sky Hungry child in the desert And the flies that cloud her eyes I get this feeling... Pleasure leaves a fingerprint As surely as mortal pain In memories they resonate And echo back again... Scars of pleasure Scars of pain Atmospheric changes Make them sensitive again

There is not one song they play that I do not like. For me, that is rare to find in an artist. Here are just a few that I really like "Time Stand Still" I turn my back to the wind To catch my breath Before I start off again. Driven on without a moment to spend To pass an evening with a drink and a friend I let my skin get too thin I'd like to pause No matter what I pretend Like some pilgrim Who learns to transcend Learns to live as if each step was the end (Time stand still) I'm not looking back But I want to look around me now (Time stand still) See more of the people and the places that surround me now Freeze this moment a little bit longer Make each sensation a little bit stronger Experience slips away Experience slips away I turn my face to the sun Close my eyes Let my defences down All those wounds that I can't get unwound I let my past go too fast No time to pause If I could slow it all down Like some captain, whose ship runs aground I can wait until the tide comes around (Time stand still) I'm not looking back But I want to look around me now (Time stand still) See more of the people and the places that surround me now Freeze this moment a little bit longer Make each impression a little bit stronger Freeze this motion a little bit longer The innocence slips away The innocence slips away... Summer's going fast, nights growing colder Children growing up, old friends growing older Freeze this moment a little bit longer Make each impression a little bit stronger Experience slips away Experience slips away... The innocence slips away Afterimage Rush (Grace Under Pressure) Suddenly, you were gone From all the lives you left your mark upon I remember How we talked and drank into the misty dawn I hear the voices We ran by the water on the wet summer lawn I see the footprints I remember I feel the way you would I feel the way you would Tried to believe but you know it's no good This is something that just can't be understood I remember The shouts of joy skiing fast through the woods I hear the echoes I learned your love for life, I feel the way that you would I feel your presence I remember I feel the way you would This just can't be understood... Song: Losing It Album: Signals Words by neil peart, music by geddy lee and alex lifeson The dancer slows her frantic pace In pain and desperation, Her aching limbs and downcast face Aglow with perspiration Stiff as wire, her lungs on fire, With just the briefest pause --- The flooding through her memory, The echoes of old applause. She limps across the floor And closes her bedroom door... The writer stares with glassy eyes --- Defies the empty page His beard is white, his face is lined And streaked with tears of rage. Thirty years ago, how the words would flow With passion and precision, But now his mind is dark and dulled By sickness and indecision. And he stares out the kitchen door Where the sun will rise no more... Some are born to move the world --- To live their fantasies But most of us just dream about The things we'd like to be Sadder still to watch it die Than never to have known it For you -- the blind who once could see --- The bell tolls for thee... Since you are a Rush fan, here's another one I really enjoy as well. He is a phenomenal drummer. You should see his set up. It's mind boggling to see. I have a DVD of their Rio concert. They are an amazing group. I absolutely love their songs. But his journey through it is all in his songs. Yes, it does span over all their albums. Song: Witch Hunt Album: Moving Pictures Lyrics: The night is black, without a moon. The air is thick and still. The vigilantes gather on The lonely torchlit hill. Features distorted in the flickering light, Faces are twisted and grotesque. Silent and stern in the sweltering night, The mob moves like demons possesed. Quiet in conscience, calm in their right, Confident their ways are best. The righteous rise With burning eyes Of hatred and ill-will. Madmen fed on fear and lies To beat and burn and kill. They say there are strangers who threaten us, Our immigrants and infidels. They say there is strangeness to danger us In our theatres and bookstore shelves, That those who know what's best for us Must rise and save us from ourselves. Quick to judge, Quick to anger, Slow to understand Ignorance and prejudice And fear walk hand in hand.

I figure I can spare some extra time. I just turned in a transcript and I’m one day ahead of schedule so figure I can write a little bit more of my interpretation of it. And this interpretation is coming from what I went through. Everybody’s interpretation will be different to an extent. But this is being said from what I went through. Naked and alone is you cannot bring family members, friends, etc., along. They have to come to these uncompromising beliefs on their own based on what they SEE, their own knowledge and their own acceptance of it. I believe from what I know I went through and SAW this is one of the reasons why AR was so stubborn. It’s very difficult to deny what you SEE with your own two eyes. What I mean by what you SEE is the most gut wrenching pain and destruction you will ever witness to the point it will literally take your breath away and you seek solitude in an attempt to escape from it. But even in solitude and a so-called safe haven, pain and destruction is also there. It’s on every face you see, every object you see, it is everywhere and no matter how much you try to run from it, you can’t evade it until you ACCEPT it as is and this is reality as you live in it today. When you look at people’s faces, all you see are distortions of pain. The distortions are the pain they are bearing and the tremendous burden that they carry and they never think is all this really necessary. When you SEE it, it’s forever burned into your memory and you will never forget it. It truly is so heartbreaking to see. But there is nothing you can do. It is their CHOICE to live in this state. This is what I mean by what you will SEE. When you finally see this pain and destruction, you become very determined to never live that way again, you know, being ruled by your emotions, never naming your emotions, never naming your actions and why you do them, never questioning your pain, never questioning your actions and so forth. It’s terrifying to SEE. I know this sounds funny but it is sort of like those scared straight programs. I know I shouldn’t compare it to that but literally it will scare the hell out of you. When you get to this point, you won’t act until you know why you are acting and you weigh the consequences of your actions. Whenever your mind asks a question, you always answer it. If you can’t answer it right then and there, you are determined to figure it out and may take months before you come to a conclusion regarding it. Falsehoods of centuries is the belief that man is to suffer and to never succeed, never to survive which is what that code teaches you and most accept it and never question it. Not of an innocent heart is what you will go through and what you will witness, all innocence is stripped from you. You’ve been through so much and have SEEN so much and have suffered tremendously by it, that innocence is completely gone. Most people, just as I did so long ago and I didn’t pass judgment on others because I believed that they were good people, no matter what their track record was. I always wanted to believe that everyone out there has some good in them someplace. But what I saw told me otherwise. There are truly good people out there but you have to find them. The hardest thing to attain is indifference. I know it was for me. It’s extremely difficult to literally turn your back on mankind, family, so-called friends that you thought were your friends and truly were not, and your believing that you are to help those that you believe are truly needy and deserving of that need. In order to attain this indifference, you will pay tremendously for it in the way of pain, unbearable pain. Clarity of mind is finally coming through the fog and the fallacies that you were taught to believe in. When you have a good understanding of yourself and know why you do what you do, your actions as well as other people’s action become very clear and what their intent truly is. When you realize something about yourself, you have a tendency to pay closer attention to it and it is then projected on to others. You watch others to confirm if they also do it too. Clarity of mind, for me, is seeing reality for what it truly is. I’m trying to think of the others I wanted to talk about. I’m on a computer but not one that is hooked up to the internet. And I’m trying to remember everything. Not to convince or conquer the world is when you realize you do not have to prove anything to anyone but yourself. Under that code, so many people are interested in always winning at everything, nobody is ever right or wrong and they will do whatever they can to tear you down so they can have the edge. What I mean by this is they will back stab you, never take the blame that is rightfully theirs, won’t take responsibility for their own actions. They will intentionally do what they can to make things as “difficult” as possible for you which I’ve had happen a number of times. They believe that man’s constant state is to struggle. So many truly good people out there that are successful and determined to prove themselves to others and do what is demanded of them or expected of them so they can keep on climbing to the top. But it is very difficult to do this when you constantly have people making you feel guilty for your abilities to survive. They’ll say, well, you make enough money, what about me, I’m suffering, I need it more than you do. There’s the guilt trip so the good may truly give into them feeling pity for them. Or they will say to you as I’ve had said to me numerous times, well, you’ve never suffered. I’ve been through so much and have suffered tremendously so you owe it to me. They hold that the value of suffering is to be held over happiness, no one is ever to be happy. When you do finally find some shred of happiness, someone is right there to knock you down even more because they don’t want to see you happy. Man is not to be happy. He is only here to suffer. Why would anyone try to make a fortune under these circumstances? I know I wouldn’t. As AR says, don’t try to rise with a looter on your back. For me, it’s very true. I’m successful now but I know that under those beliefs I would much rather not be subjected to all the mudslinging and attempted guilt trips, tear downs for your ability to survive. I make more than my share now but that is mine and no one elses. My finances are my own personal business and no one elses, not even my husband’s. His money is his money as mine is mine. I don’t even know how much he makes a year, just as long as he can pay his own bills. If he needs help and vice versa with me, we do help each other. But this state is not constant. It’s only temporary. And once the hardship is over, everything goes back to what it was before. After seeing what I saw, I realized that the most important person was myself and that the only person I had to prove anything to was myself. I realized I didn’t have to convince or prove anything to anyone nor do I have the driving need to conquer looters, parasites, and those ruled by their emotions. They can battle it out all they want. I’m sure there is more that will come to mind after thinking about it more and remembering what I went through. But when you do finally SEE the pain and destruction that truly is unbearable and is the reason why so many people are so stressed out looking, or the ones that seem to age 15 years overnight, this is due to the tremendous burden that they carry. This burden is that they are to NEVER have the RIGHT to survive themselves but those around them do have the RIGHT and you are to take care of them no matter what. If you don’t take care of them, they use the number one component of destruction and that is GUILT. But when you finally do break free from all these chains that most people choose to wear and get through that cloud of doom that you SEE and the distorted faces of pain no matter where you go and you feel you can no longer bear it any longer and think to yourself, if this is what the world is like, I don’t want any part of it, I don’t want to be here. But just tell yourself, it will get easier, just give it a little more time, you can make it. I also remember telling myself that if it didn’t get easier, that I would commit suicide. Out of everything I’ve been through, this is the only time where I actually contemplated taking my own life. The pain is absolutely unbearable and it is such a burden to carry around. And when you finally ACCEPT it for what it is and what the world is truly like, you will be able to overlook that mountain you have climbed bloody and stripped of all innocence and so exhausted for the battle you have just WON and look out over that mountain and have an understanding of life that most will never have. And one day you’ll wake up one morning feeling so refreshed, with the bright sun shining through your windows, no more doom, no more fear, no more pain and destruction that hangs over everything you see, even objects, even things that you once held so dear such as memories or photos you look at, or your most prized possessions and all you SEE is death, pain, and destruction but it’s finally over with, this is what you will SEE. Literally, you cannot wait to get outside and look at how beautiful the sky is, how blue it is, how crisp everything is, how much you went to get out and LIVE life and LOVE it. Nothing matters but YOUR LIFE. From this point on, you do acquire an intense drive of determination to succeed and to never let anyone hold you down or make you feel guilty for being able to survive. And you are determined to never be ruled by your emotions or to ever go back to that state of existence they call life. When you are pushing so hard to succeed and to PROVE to yourself that you can do it and you start to get tired and start to waver from your course, all you have to do is remember what you went through and that is determination enough to keep pushing forward and to never give up. I know this is hard to believe but this is what I went through. Literally, I found myself only coming out of my room to eat, go to work, and go right back in. I didn’t talk to anyone, friends, family, etc. All would knock on the door and say, Angie, are you all right. I know something is wrong. Just come out here and talk to me please. I tried once and I couldn’t do it. Even in the living room, there was too much pain there and I couldn’t handle it. My dad had asked me why I looked the way I did and I couldn’t turn to look at him. I couldn’t look at it. It was unbearable pain. I had my eyes closed shut and he kept asking me to look at him. So I barely opened my eyes and looked in his direction and what I SAW was immense pain and the entire room only represented pain and destruction and he asked me what’s wrong. I said, there’s so much pain here and looked away again and kept my eyes closed. And he just laughed at me. I went back into my room and stayed there. I only came out when it was needed. I know this is hard to believe but truly and honestly this is what I went through. And it is the most gut wrenching pain you will ever witness. This is what you have to go through to get there and to finally SEE it. Rick, my friend, when I listen to him talk and watch his face, I can tell he is starting to suffer. Sometimes I see happiness on his face but at times see that he is beginning to suffer. Unfortunately, it seems that this is what you have to go through before breaking free of those chains and reaching indifference. This is one of the reasons why I would be considered a dogmatic O’ist and cannot budge from what I know to be the truth and know to be right. I’m sure this is why Ayn Rand was also so stubborn regarding her beliefs. If I am presented with hardcore evidence, shown it, and explained it thoroughly, then I will change my belief and integrate it in and move on. And this is the reason that I’m such an optimistic person. I don’t fear my future and what it will bring me. I embrace it with open arms and look at it as my opportunity to appreciate what was given back to me, something I had lost when I was younger and that is the LOVE of LIFE. There are aspects of her philosophy that I’m not familiar with. As I said, she went into it deeper than I ever did. Just as long as it rules my life and guides my life, then I am fine. But as I said, I cannot tell anyone anything to convince them otherwise. The only proof I can give anyone is if they go through it themselves. I know that that is how it started with me is when I started to question my actions, emotions while in the present and as I went along, etc. Even though I do not know any of you in here personally, for the most part we are working towards the same beliefs so I don’t mind sharing with most in here. And I’m learning from you guys as well. But some aspects of this stuff, I don’t want posted in public view. But this was my perception of it when going through it. Angie

Hi, Kat. I'm not sure who Neal Peart is. Duh....LOL. I was thinking of someone actually on the site right now. I was like, who is that? I listen heavily to his work but do not know him personally. I know he is very private. I've watched interviews with him that were very brief but most of the time he doesn't go in front of the camera to talk about his life. But I do know recently he lost his daughter I think to cancer and then a few months later lost the rest of his family to a drunk driver. So sad. I definitely want to write about this and will a little bit now. But I'm going to be leaving for the weekend and trying to catch up on work before I go so I don't have to worry about taking work with me. There are a few things in that particular excerpt I do want to address but privately. I don't want it posted. Certain aspects of that excerpt I put up were addressed to someone else in private email. But other excerpts I don't mind. The chains to be broken. The chains that are broken are various such as guilt, being set free of guilt. Guilt is one of the biggest aspects of destruction. The chains basically represent the major components of destruction. Guilt and fear are two huge ones. Uncertainty is another one. It is difficult to guide your life when you are constantly unsure of your actions and why. If a person can be certain of nothing and knowledge is impossible to him, he is doomed for failure after failure and never to succeed. He's basically going to rot away. If someone makes you feel guilty about something, they can pretty much do whatever they want with you. When you feel guilt, you are more easily submissive into their wishes and demands because you want to please them. Another one is the chain that you are to be a sacrificial animal to others and never to escape it. Fear is another chain that is broken. You no longer feel doom and dread for your own life and never to know what might come at you and how you are to deal with it and if you are to survive it. These are chains that are to be broken and are unnecessary and most people are willing to wear them like a prisoner that is to be shackled to the old ball and chain. Honestly, how many times, not now, but in the past, has someone manipulated you into feeling guilty for them; such as, family members, etc. Of course, they are family. You want to help. Most help because they feel obligated just because it is family, even if the family member is a looter. This is a chain that most are willing to bear the burden of. But they are afraid to break that chain because of what "others" will think of them or catching hell from other family members. Such as my friend Rick is experiencing now. That is one chain he has already started to break. Most people feel guilty for their ability to survive. The thinking is I make a lot but I really should give it to others, ones that are more needier. Intransigient mind is the mind that will not budge from the truth and what they know to be the truth because they saw it with their own two eyes. The mind that will not compromise their beliefs. It's similar to someone trying to Tell me that LOC is wrong. That is one thing I cannot budge from. If I waiver from this at all, I deny my mind. If I deny this, I'm denying the only tool that is the key to my survival. There are more personal things I've shared with others privately that talks about what I SAW and that is something I definitely don't want to go back too. Just tremendous amounts of pain and destruction to the point it takes your breath away and you literally have to force yourself to look at it. Even when you do force yourself to do look and SEE it, it's difficult to take it all in so you turn your head away from it again. Most people might listen to a conversation and someone "telling" them something and may quickly switch from one side to the other without having PROOF or evidence. I've seen it happen a few times on this site already. Where the person is unsure of what the truth is so they start to take up the idea of someone else's without having proof first. That's all I can write right now because I have to get back to work bad, another late night. There are a few other things I want to say. But honestly, the only proof I can give anyone is if they DECIDE to start it themselves and they will get the proof they are looking for. I can talk until I'm blue in the face and it won't do a thing. Some things I would like to keep private though and don't want posted out in public. Some of these things I've been sharing with others but on a more private level. Even though I'm pretty open about stuff. But some things are better left not said in public as I'm sure you are aware because I know you're private as well. I love Rush. Have all their albums. It spans over all the albums which is like 10 or 11, something like that.

Hi, Mike. As always, I have a lot to say but just want to explain a few aspects though. Some of those excerpts I posted were not to give off the light of being preachy, etc. Some of those were to SHOW that Ayn Rand has said it as well. With a few in here that I’ve talked with or have expressed my thoughts regarding it privately, it was to SHOW that I’m not the only one who was saying it. Everything that I’ve said can be found in her philosophy but some of it can be found obscurely. It’s not pronounced in her philosophy but it is there. My conclusion of this and theory of it is that this process will either confirm what you already know to be TRUE or may fix any misconceptions of it and then it will progress from there. This is my perception of it and basing on what I went through while progressing through it myself. This theory has been proved to myself because I went through it. But to make it concrete, I would like the perceptions of it from others as they progress through it themselves. And so far, I have a few “willing” participants, one that has gone gung ho into it and is learning a lot from it. I’m sure most, not all, but most have a hard time believing that someone else also come to the same conclusions. When you get a stranger that walks in here and says they also went through it and have come to the same beliefs, there will be many skeptics. Even though I came to the same conclusions, AR went way deep into it. It very much rules my life now and I’ve completely and successfully have integrated it in because I UNDERSTAND it FULLY. Believe it or not, there are many true life John Galts out there that have never studied her philosophy or even knew who she was. It’s just AR was the first to write about it in depth. Believe it or not, I met a true life John Galt about a year and a half ago. Come to find out, he had no clue who she was. When I first saw him, he was striking. It was the kind of face you never forget. His presence was amazing. He was the type of man that when he walked in the room all attention was drawn to him. I didn’t approach him at first. The few times I saw him walking across the parking lot I just watched him, didn’t approach him. The day before I approached I saw the car he had gotten out of. Out of my curiosity, I got out of my car and walked by his. And of all things, he had a sticker on his car that said “Think for yourself.” For me, that was it. The next time I saw him I approached him and asked him a strange question. I figured if he knew what I meant he would know how to answer it. I asked him, how long has it been for you. He looked at me weird and didn’t understand what type of answer I was looking for. And then the look on his face said it all, he knew what I was asking and he told me HIS answer. My jaw dropped. I asked him if he knew who AR was or her philosophy and all things he said NO. Floored me even more. We exchanged emails and talked for a while but lost contact. I don’t know what happened. But he said something major was going on and he would definitely be in touch. Well, haven’t heard from him since but he has my email address still. We shared a lot of past situations with each other and what had happened to make him come to those conclusions, etc. So believe it or not, there are real life AR’s out there walking around who don’t know who she was and they have come to the same conclusions. In reference to the beginners book, etc., and the reference to Atlantis. Even my old friend, the doctor, didn’t fully understand what she meant by this. He assumed it was the Valley because the Valley is so pronounced in her book. It’s not the valley. The valley is her ultimate vision of what life could be like. The real Atlantis she talks about is having your childhood spirit given back. Even my friend, real life AR, also spoke of this but never labeled it as such. Also know of another O’ist that also reached it and he is the drummer from Rush and writes all their songs. Almost every song he writes for the band is about Objectivism and his personal relationship with AR and the songs describe his journey to getting there. So it does exist. It’s just a different form of existence. I’m very interested in writing a book. But unfortunately, it would not be complete. It isn’t really like a step program at all. The correct foundation needs to be LEARNED first and UNDERSTOOD before you can progress through it correctly. And I’m still looking into this myself and sorting it out in my head. But the foundation is based on Q&A, rational self-interest, and learning about yourself as to why you do what you do in the present, your actions, emotions, and most of all Questioning your Pain and if it is justifiable. And then it will slowly builds from there and it WILL gradually gain in speed to the point it will propel your mind forward. And you do start to process information extremely fast about yourself, your environment, and others. You even start to talk faster, etc. I know with me, most people tell me to please slow down because I talk way too fast. It truly is a phenomenal journey. I don’t mean this to be degrading, etc. This is my perception of it and trying to sort it out in my head and laying it down correctly. If the correct foundation isn’t laid first, it makes it harder for the rest of the philosophy to be understood. It’s similar to learning pre-algebra and then midsemester you are yanked out of that class and thrown into Trig, and they tell you, understand this and solve these problems. Of course, you aren’t going to be able to. You haven’t learned enough through the hierarchy of knowledge on how to understand it in order to solve the problems. The more you learn and the more you fully understand it, it makes it easier to understand and to fully integrate it into your life and to solve problems. That is definitely an option that will stay open for me later on. I know what I went through and how it progressed for me. But I can only base it on my perception of it and what I went through. Two people’s perception of something may be quite different. One may look at the clouds and see only grey and white. But the other may see grey, white, traces of purple, traces of green, etc. The same with her book, what you get from it may be far different than what I get from it. What stands out to you will be far different than what stands out to me. This is very much individualized and how they learn it themselves and their own understanding of it, etc. I need data and more information from others regarding it and what they are going through before I can concretely write a book about it or definitively say, yes, this is the way without a doubt. I had my friend, doctor, start it a long time ago but is only progressing through it slowly now and told me many interesting things about it that coincided with what I went through. My other friend offline is quite an interesting person. I do have one major question that I have that will be answered once he gets through it. He doesn’t know her philosophy or who AR was but he’s been giving me tremendous insight based on what he is going through. So far his conclusions and his experiences with it coincide with what I went through and with what AR describes. But I’m still learning myself as I get deeper into it. It’s just I need more evidence or proof before I can say without a doubt, YES, this is how it starts and this is how to get there and it is a short cutted version, that you can skip steps on getting there rather than taking 50, 60, 70 years to get there. It’s similar to saying, you have an option, you can do it in 1 to 2 years or shorter or spend the next 50 trying to get there. I let my friend do all the talking and I just listen to him. Even though I object to some things he says but I know he will LEARN them on his own as he progresses through it and this is what it is all about, your SIGHT, your KNOWLEDGE, your ACCEPTANCE of it. Trust me, he’s a talker. When we get together, we will talk for many hours. Sometimes into early morning if I can do it. I saw him a few days ago and we talked. I brought a contradiction to his attention. He didn’t even realize it was a contradiction. But these contradictions are fixed as you go along through it. He said that selfish people are sociopathic. But a half an hour later was describing a situation where he himself was being selfish. I said, that’s interesting, you describe selfish people as being sociopaths but what you just told me now you were being selfish. I told him that there was nothing wrong with being selfish. I said that he was practicing rational self-interest and that he was doing what was best for him and not what was best for others. So he’s learning a lot. But the contradictions are fixed as you go along. I am big into medicine and studying medicine, took 4 years of it. I still read journals, etc. I’m fascinated by it. My friend offline is also homosexual. With my background, there are aspects of medicine that they are trying to blame on other things other than the contents of your mind and I disagree with it. Apparently, they THINK they have isolated a gene that may prove that homosexuality is something you are born with. But it is not concrete evidence yet. Since my friend is a homosexual and has been for a long time, I’m very curious as to whether or not he will keep that sexual preference if he does get there or if he will become straight if he makes it through. This is my big question and an answer I will get once he gets through it. Don’t think that I don’t do my own experiments and tests that I’ve come up with on my own. That’s something I’ve been doing for a long time now. You come up with a theory in your head and your conclusion of it. Then you intentionally set up a situation amongst friends or what have you where they are completely unaware of what your intentions are and then you create the situation for them without their knowing and then you watch it unfold. And for the most part, the theory and conclusion was correct. I love to people watch now more than anything. After the long winded post as always, I’m not being preachy, just trying to explain a little bit, yes, I would love to write a book. But I need more data and evidence and other people’s perception of it before I can say YES, for a fact, this is a short cutted version of it. I know it was fairly quick for me. But so far what I’ve seen and have talked with people about, IT IS the short version of getting there. So far, they are progressing through it just as I did. Even Rick, my offline gay friend, has stated he has learned so much over the past few months. This is evidence for me, that it truly does pick up speed just as it did with me so long ago and it confirms what I know to be true and what AR says to be true. But the only way I can concretely PROVE it without a doubt is by having “willing” participants to just try it so it will PROVE to me and themselves that it is what it is and this is definitely a way to skip those unnecessary steps to getting there. And so far, I have a few “willing” participants. I can’t force anyone to do it. But if they CHOOSE to do it so they can SEE it for themselves and to understand it fully and integrate it into their lives sucessfully, then I’m right there supporting them, giving my perception of it to see if it coincides with their own perception of it, what they are learning and why, etc. I do want to put up more excerpts to illustrate it and to “help” those in here that have started it already or to maybe encourage others to try it themselves. But it is their choice if they want to act on it or not. Don’t get me wrong still, I don’t have a problem with most in here. For the most part, we are working towards the same values and understanding it better. But there’s just a few in here I prefer to stay away from now. Their values are too far different from my own and it would not be beneficial to me in ultimately building my own hierarchy of knowledge and furthering what I already know to be the TRUTH. So that post was not directed to all in here. It was directed to just a few. And I’m sure when they read it, they will privately know that it was addressed to them. So no hostility or abuse, it was done to draw “their” attention to what they are doing and why in the hopes of putting a stop to it. I’m sure if I was that way and someone posted that and made it public it would definitely make me recoil from those actions in an attempt to cover up from others what it is I truly valued. Does that make sense? So no hostility, etc., but just wanting attention drawn to it. Angie

I don't mean to come off as preachy. Truly that was not my intent. I do have some strong comments as I am sure everyone does here as well. I don't mean to invoke hostility or what have you. That's not my intent. It's just I've noticed comments or I should say inflammatory remarks said that would definitly upset O'ists, some directed towards me. It was just my intention to draw attention to it. The post was not addressed to any one in particular. But if anyone that was this way read the post, they "privately" would know who they are. So truly, Mike, it was not my intent to come off as that. I do take responsibility for being a little harsh. To me, it makes no sense if you do not believe in Objectivism, then why are you here. The whole purpose of this site is for those who are supporters of this philosophy. We're not here to have people knock us down for what we believe in or they view us as being a fundamentalist religion. It's like, if you dislike us that much, then why stay here and intentionally say things to get us riled up. The way I look at this is not to let it bother me. It's not worth it. I only put up the examples to "help" those who have started it. Or to SHOW what I was saying a while ago to maybe help those that are truly "considering" it. I know I can't force anyone to do anything they don't want to do, etc., or preach it, etc. But what I can do is SHOW what I mean to "help" others who have started it or who are considering it. The post I put up was for examples only and then a few of my thoughts. I've pretty much already expressed my thoughts regarding it a while ago. But again, it was posted to help. One thing with this philosophy is there is nothing you can say or tell someone to convince them otherwise. They have to be SHOWN it or given proof/evidence. It is similar to the discussions on here with those that do believe heavily in identity, etc., versus those who do not. You can be presented with new thinking and may consider it. But it is still very difficult to tell someone what it is or what have you without SHOWING it to them so they can SEE for themselves. I also believe for the most part that everyone here IS working towards the same values. For me as an individual, I have to be SHOWN it and not told about it. In order for me to have a FULL understanding of it, I have to be given evidence of it and then EXPLAINED what it is and then I will draw my own conclusions regarding it. Don't get me wrong, I'm not down on other people's point of view but when I see remarks being made that is definetely argumentative and is degrading, you do have a tendency to shy away from that person(s). What I said was harsh and I do not deny that and I accept it but I can't interact with someone that is verbally abusive, even passive aggressively abusive. You know the type that will slip a few small things in here and there nonchalantly that is abusive. I made those comments so that if that person(s) read the post it would make them think twice about CHOOSING whether or not they would say anything degrading or abusive or what have you as I've seen in the past. But honestly I didn't mean to be preachy. And I think the only post that obviously came off to others as being preachy was that one post I put up. My other posts were basically trying to explain it and giving my belief regarding it. But most people, I know I am, have to be given evidence and shown it before they truly accept it. Everybody has there BUT. When you are given evidence and not told and are SHOWN it, it is much easier to ACCEPT it and to integrate it into your life. So I don't have a problem with hearing other points of view. But when there is abuse involved, I will definitely say something to deter you away from me or from what I say. You can pick it apart all you want. I don't care. What counts for me is as long as I personally know it is true. It's just I personally do not want to intentionally draw abuse towards myself. But when you get others that obviously do like to fight or argue or slip little things in here and there to upset someone, I will say something to intentionally draw your attention to what you are doing. I may not name anyone. But if they read it, they would privately know....This means you. Honestly, Mike, it was not my intention to sound the way I obviously came off to others. It was my intention to draw attention to it. And give them the OPTION if they CHOOSE to try it so they can SEE it for themselves, so they can UNDERSTAND it better. There is nothing that I can say to prove my point. The only way I can PROVE my point is by SHOWING it. I will apologize to you. But I prefer to stay out of conversations, etc., where I know for a fact they are this way. Their actions say everything about who they are and what they truly value. That was my whole point. But if I came off as preachy or what have you, I do apologize to you for that. If you would much rather not me put the examples up, then I won't do it. Or if the examples come off too much as being preachy or offensive to others, I won't do it. But it's not being posted to sound preachy. It's being posted to "help" those to understand it better and to be SHOWN examples of it. Angie

I've decided to put up another post saying that it wasn't my intent to be preachy or what have you or to portray a negative light. For the most part, I don't have a problem with most in here with the exception of a few. It is I just wanted to draw some attention to certain attitudes that I've noticed, argumentative behaviors, and intentionally saying things that they know full well would upset O'ists, etc., with an intent to provoke hostility. So it was not my intent to portray any negativity or to sound preachy, etc. Yes, abrasive. I don't deny that and I accept full responsibility for that with no problems. But again, it was just to draw the attention. Angie

One other thing I wanted to say.....Take a look around you from the cars you drive to and from work, to the computer you browse the internet with and answer your emails with, to the computer that plays chess that is so human like, to the hair dryer you use to blow dry your hair, to the labs you work in, to the microscopes you use to "see" minute details, to the sky scrapers that you see in cities......This has all been created by MAN'S MIND performing the LAW OF CAUSALITY and THE LAW OF IDENTITY. These are the men that ask WHAT is it, WHY is it, WHAT is its purpose, HOW can I use it, WHY does it ACT the way it does. This is the LOC and LOI. Everything that you see around you, everything that has made your life just a little bit EASIER is all due to the LOC and the LOI. If we did not have this, we would still be in the caveman days. If you deny this, then you hold the value that man's mind is impotent, that knowledge is impossible to man, that man's mind is worthless and has no value to his survival. If you believe this, you hold that man's constant state of existence is pain and destruction. You value death. I have nothing to offer of value to men that hold the value of death as they have nothing of value to offer me other than pain and frustration. I do not take a step in their direction nor do I interact with them. For the doubters, why don't you take a step through the door I just opened to you and then PROVE me wrong and PROVE Ayn Rand wrong. When you take the first step through that door, you'll DISCOVER and figure out WHY you do WHAT you do in the present and you will UNCOVER your true values. I don't mean to sound mean but some values in here are quite different from my own. There are those that have the same values as mine and I don't mind interacting with them and sharing thoughts. But if it is obvious that you value death and not life, I don't want to interact with you. If you CHOOSE to degrade me, belittle me, or intentionally push my buttons, then that will REVEAL even more of WHAT you truly value. I don't care if I get a bad rep regarding this or even kicked out. I'm expressing my opinions and revealing what I truly value. There are those here that I have made friends with both through posts as well as private emails, those are the ones that VALUE LIFE life, they have something of value to offer me as I have something of value to offer them. Angie

These are from Atlas Shrugged, just various examples of introspection “while in the present,” as well as other various excerpts that I’m sure some of you in here will recognize from past conversations on your posts or through PMs. I just wanted to give examples of it because it coincides with the posts I put up. This is long but well worth reading. There are a few in here that I really would like to read this, even though, it is long. And I'm sure you know who you are. I know that this is how it started with me and the conclusions are pretty much the same with small variations here and there. I just would like someone to try this introspection while in the present to SEE if this is a short cutted version to getting there. I do have one friend near me, not online, a friend of the family that started this introspection while in the present and asking yourself question after question until you understand WHY you do WHAT you do in the present. He calls it real-time analyzing. He's been questioning all of his actions, emotions, and most of all THE PAIN he is experiencing and obviously is realizing that pain is not his constant state of existence. He’s been doing it for a few months now. When talking to him, he is basically seeking self-preservation and performing rational self-interest, even though he’s not fully aware of it yet. He has stated that he is starting to go through a lot and is making some very difficult DECISIONS about his life; such as, recently kicking out his looter mom that is a major drama queen. He said that he just can’t do it anymore, “It’s not healthy.” And that he basically can’t be responsible for her life. He also stated that he has LEARNED so much over these past few months. For those of you who have started it or who I have talked with about this, here are some examples. Some of this will be put in italics to make it stand out, even though it’s not in italics in the book. “She could have understood any change, but not the things she saw. There was no sparkle of life in his face, no hint of amusement; the face had become implacable. The plea of his first smile had not been a plea of weakness; he had ACQUIRED an air of determination that seemed merciless. He acted like a man who stood straight, under the weight of an unendurable burden. She saw what she could not have believed possible: that there were lines of bitterness in his face and that he looked tortured.” “They sat in silence, listening to the statement of rebellion – the anthem of the triumph of the great victims who would refuse to ACCEPT pain.” “Looking past her, as if ANSWERING a THOUGHT of his own, a faint smile of bitter amusement on his face…” “He sat down looking at her, as if WEIGHING a QUESTION. Then he shook his head again, in ANSWER to HIMSELF.” “Don’t be afraid for me. It was just this once. It won’t happen to me again. It will become much EASIER…..LATER.” “He did not look like a man bearing torture now, but like a man who sees that which makes the torture worth bearing.” “Next time we meet, you will not want to see me. I will have a REASON for the things I’ll do.” “You have to live by your OWN knowledge and JUDGMENT.” “Is it as terrible as that? It is an answer YOU MUST reach by YOURSELF.” Dagny performs more extrospection than introspection. She is taking her enviroment and trying to figure out WHY and WHAT. She’s doing a good job of it because everything she is doing is performing LOC and LOI. She’s putting a NAME to all these things that she is SEEING “while in the present.” “WHYy had she always felt that joyous sense of confidence when looking at machines?—she THOUGHT. In these giant shapes, two aspects pertaining to the inhuman were radiantly absent: the causeless and the purposeless. Every part of the motor was an embodied answer to “Why?” and “What for?”—like the steps of a life-course chosen by the sort of mind she worshipped. The motors were a moral code cast in steel. They are alive, she THOUGHT, BECAUSE they are the physical shape of the action of a living power—of the mind that had been able to grasp the whole of this complexity, to set its purpose, to give it form.” “They are alive, she THOUGHT, but their soul operates them by remote control. Their soul is in every man who has the capacity to this achievement. Should the soul vanish from the earth, the motors would stop, because that is the power which keeps them going--…… This next excerpt is Taggart, performing no introspection at all while in the present. He refuses to identify, name or figure out why he is doing what he is doing and why he feels it. “The feeling seemed to have some quality in common with the things he felt about the John Galt Line. It’s because he had a cold, he THOUGHT; he wouldn’t feel this way if he didn’t have a cold; a man couldn’t be expected to be in top form when he had a cold—he couldn’t help it—WHAT did they expect him to do tonight, sing and dance?—he snapped the QUESTION angrily at unknown judges of his unwitnessed mood.” “He stood looking after her for a moment, his eyes narrowed. He did NOT NAME to HIMSELF the nature of his OWN FEELING—NEVER to IDENTIFY his emotions was the only steadfast rule of his life; he merely felt it—and this particular feeling was pleasurable, which was the only identification he cared to know. But the feeling was the product of a thought he would not utter.” This is Mulligan I think. “It was a growing, successful concern at the time. It gave my husband the kind of work he liked. He was NOT a person prone to INNER CONFLICTS, he had always been sure of his actions and at peace with himself. But for a WHOLE YEAR after we left Wisconsin, he acted as if he were tortured by something, as if he were STRUGGLING with a PERSONAL PROBLEM he could not solve.” This one is Hank. “Walking through the darkness of the streets, on his way to her apartment, Rearden kept his hands in his coat pockets and his arms pressed to his sides, because he felt that he did not want to touch anything or brush against anyone. He had never experienced it before—this sense of revulsion that was not aroused by any particular object but seemed to FLOOD EVERYTHING around him, making the city seem SODDEN. He could understand disgust for any one thing, and he could fight that thing with the healthy indignation of knowing that it did not belong in the world; but this was new to him—this feeling that the world was a loathsome place where he did not want to belong.” “Rearden felt nothing but a great stillness and a great CLARITY. It was as if some VOICE was telling him sternly: This is the time—the scene is lighted—NOW LOOK. And standing naked in the great light; he was looking quietly, solemnly, stripped of fear, of pain, of hope, with nothing left to him but the desire TO KNOW.” “She could renounce the railroad, she THOUGHT; she could find contentment here, in this forest; but she would build the path, then reach the road below, then rebuild the road—and then she would reach the storekeeper of Woodstock and that would be the end, and the empty white face staring at the universe in stagnant apathy would be the limit placed on her effort. WHY? She heard herself screaming aloud. There was no answer. Then stay here until you ANSWER it, she THOUGHT. This is Galt. “Oh, she said weakly, and laughed; she had no capacity for astonishment any longer. Do you suppose I was killed in that crash—and this is some other form of EXISTENCE?” “It is another kind of EXISTENCE.” Said Galt. “But as for being killed, doesn’t it seem more like the other way around?” “We never make assertions, Miss Taggart,” said Hugh Akston. That is the moral crime peculiar to our enemies. We do NOT TELL—WE SHOW. WE DO NOT CLAIM—WE PROVE. It is not your obedience that we seek to win, but your RATIONAL CONVICTION. You have seen all the elements of our secret. The CONCLUSION is now YOURS TO DRAW—we can help you to NAME it, but NOT to ACCEPT it—the SIGHT, the KNOWLEDGE and the ACCEPTANCE, MUST be YOURS.” “You have seen the Atlantis they were seeking, it is here, it EXISTS—but one must enter it naked and alone, with no rags from the falsehoods of centuries, with the purist clarity of mind—not an INNOCENT heart—but that which is much rarer: an INTRANSIGENT mind—as one’s only possession and key. You will not enter it until you LEARN that you do NOT need to CONVINCE or to conquer the world. When you LEARN it, you will SEE through all the years of your struggle, nothing had barred you from Atlantis and there were no chains to hold you, except the chains you were willing to wear.” Galt’s speech “We have granted you everything you demanded of us, we who had always been the GIVERS, but have only now understood it. We have no demands to present to you, no terms to bargain about, no compromise to reach. You have nothing to offer us. We do not need you.” “To remain alive, he must ACT, and BEFORE he can ACT he MUST KNOW the NATURE and PURPOSE of "HIS ACTIONS." “The day when he grasps that his SENSES cannot deceive him, that physical objects cannot act without causes, that his organs of perception are physical and have no volition, no power to invent or to distort, that the evidence they give him is an absolute, but his mind MUST LEARN to UNDERSTAND it, his mind must DISCOVER the NATURE, the CAUSES, the full context of his sensory material, his mind MUST IDENTIFY the things that he PERCEIVES—that is the day of HIS BIRTH as a THINKER and SCIENTIST. We are the men who reached that day; you are the men who CHOOSE to reach it partly; a savage is a man who never does. To a savage, the world is a place of unintelligible miracles where anything is possible to inanimate matter and NOTHING is POSSIBLE to HIM. His world is not the unknown, but that irrational horror: the unknowable. He believes that physical objects are endowed with a mysterious volition, moved by causeless, unpredictable whims, while he is a helpless pawn at the mercy of forces BEYOND HIS CONTROL.” “Observe the persistence, in mankind’s mythologies, of the legend about a paradise that men had once possessed, the city of Atlantis or the Garden of Eden or some kingdom of perfection, always behind us. The root of the legend exists, not in the past of the race, but in the past of every man. You still retain a sense—not as firm as a memory, but diffused like the pain of hopeless longing—that somewhere in the starting years of your CHILDHOOD, before you had learned to submit, to absorb the terror of unreason and to DOUBT the VALUE of YOUR MIND, you had known a radiant state of existence, you had known the independence of a rational consciousness facing an open universe. That is the paradise which you have lost, which you see—which is yours for the taking.” “In that world, you’ll be able to rise in the morning with the SPIRIT you have known in your CHILDHOOD: that spirit of EAGERNESS, ADVENTURE, and CERTAINTY which comes from dealing with a rational universe. No child is afraid of nature; it is your fear of men that will vanish, the fear that has stunted your soul, the fear you ACQUIRED in your early encounters with the incomprehensible, the unpredictable, the contradictory, the arbitrary, the hidden, the faked, the irrational in men.” I have tons more excerpts but went through them and pulled out the ones I wanted to write. I have page after page of examples of introspection and extrospection while in the present as well as various other excerpts. All you have to do is question your actions and your emotions and YOUR PAIN and why you are having them and then give them an Identity. Put 2 and 2 together. When you do the introspection while in the present and figuring out WHY you do WHAT you do, you are practicing Law of Identity and Law of Causality. When doing this for a period of time, you’ll find you enjoy using your mind the way it is supposed to be used. You’ll find the answers are fascinating and the detective story about yourself as being most intriguing and so complex at first. When you understand yourself and why, it makes others around you and their actions and why they do what they do easier to understand. You will see their values by just watching them and/or observing their thoughts. There is one more excerpt I want to share. For those of you in here that have started this, here are some good examples to give you a better idea of it and how to go about it. But there are some here that would never take a step in the direction of figuring out Why you do What you do and what your true values are. For you, there is too much fear in realizing that what Ayn Rand says is more accurate than you can imagine. This one is from Ayn Rand Library Objectivism: The Philosophy of Ayn Rand "This is not to deny that a person's ideas can have effects, positive or negative, on his mental state. If an individual accepts a philosophy of reason, and if he characteristically CHOOSES to be in FOCUS, he will gradually GAIN knowledge, confidence, and a sense of intellectual control. This will make it easier for him to be in FOCUS. After he practices the policy for a time, FOCUSSING will come to seem NATURAL, his thought processes will gain in speed and efficiency, HE WILL ENJOY USING HIS MIND, and he will experience little temptation to drop the mental reins." "On the other hand, if an individual ACCEPTS an anti-reason philosophy, and if he characteristically remains out of focus, he will increasingly feel blind, UNCERTAIN and anxious. This will make the CHOICE to focus harder. After a while, he will experience focus as an unnatural strain, his thought processes will become relatively tortured and unproductive, and he will be tempted more than ever to escape into a state of passive drift." "If you avail yourself of the power of a rational epistemology, you do not have to fear new data or new ideas. Every new item you integrate into the fabric of your knowledge will mean that much more fact on your side, that much more weight to YOUR CONCLUSIONS, that much more conviction to the total of your cognition. By this method, you will soon discover what, in logic, should have been the popular wisdom: that the more you learn, if you LEARN IT PROPERLY, the more CLEAR you become and the more you know."

Hi, David. You can call me Angie. CNA is Chris 'n' Angie, my son. Tom Hanks is a wonderful actor. Yes, extremely versatile. One of the reasons he is at the top of his profession. I enjoy watching his movies. Unfortunately I haven't seen Road to Perdition. I don't get to watch movies much anymore. But when I was younger, I was a movie buff. I even know the old B movies from a long time ago; such as Hell Night...that gave me the heebie jeebies. I couldn't have been maybe 12 or 13 when I watched it....no plot, typical B movie, blood, gore, etc. Oh, wait, a young Linda Blair was in it. Nowadays, my taste in movies are far different and I'm a lot more selective on what I'll watch now. I love the survivor stories or the stories where someone overcomes tremendous tragedies, etc. I don't watch scary movies because my heart can't take the adrenaline pumping......LOL I watched too many horror shows as a kid and they always freaked me out. I don't like watching things that might possibly threaten a life.....Does that make sense? I'll watch it, especially if it gets great reviews. But they are by no means my favorites. They just don't sit well with me. Angie

Dragonfly, one of the reasons O'ists are so long winded and write essays is because we are thinkers. We like to explore our thoughts and why we are having them. Typically when you are a writer, you will find that you start with one subject but the next thing you know you are branching off into something else and you think about that branch and explore it and it helps you understand the first thought you had better. This is called the Heirarchy of Knowledge. True O'ists do no abdicate reason. When we write as we do, it helps us to UNDERSTAND it better. It helps us to branch off into other things (Heirarchy of Knowledge I referred to in another post) in an attempt to further our UNDERSTANDING in an attempt to further our knowledge. This is one of the reasons Ayn Rand was such a prolific writer. She found the more she wrote the more she UNDERSTOOD. It gave her insight into her own mind and how it worked, how if affected her body, her emotions, etc. We do not come up with one thought or question and then just leave it at that such as you refer to making it short and then wait for others to provoke more questions. We are exhaustive writers and exhaustive thinkers. Why are we this way...Because we're not depending on someone else to tell us what is right or what is wrong. We're doing it to DISCOVER our own understanding of it and to further that understanding. Angie

That would be nice so we can share the movies we've seen and our favorites. Well, if I ever get a chance to watch TV, period, it woud be nice. But my favorites right now are The Edge with Anthony Hopkins, great survival story between the man ruled by his mind, the parasite looter and the man ruled by his emotions. Of course, what's the outcome? You gotta watch to find out. And another favorite of mine is Cast Away with Tom Hanks. Yeah, kind of slow but another great survival movie. Sharing movies woud be nice; that is, if I ever get the time.....LOL Angie

That's okay, Kat. I know you were working on them. I think she knows my intention %? :D/

Hi, Jenna. You are such a strong lady. Girl, keep your head up and walk in pride. Just remember though and I'm sure you know this already, you do not have to prove anything to anyone. The only person you have to prove it to is YOURSELF. I hope the standing o's are working. You deserve it !!!! I'll try again =D> =D> =D> =D> =D> =D> =D> =D>

Oh, and Jenna, while putting that bad boy into high gear laugh while you're doing it because it is your triumph over them in refusing to let them affect your life. And BTW, don't forget to LAUGH all the way to the BANK. Your life is your life and what you make FOR YOURSELF is YOURS and no one elses. So Honey, I'll join you with all the joyous laughter I can muster up the next time I go to the bank and deposit MY BIG FAT PAYCHECK because not only am I celebrating MY LIFE I am also celebrating YOURS !!!!!!!!! Angie

Hi, Jenna. Girl, take PRIDE, tremendous amounts of PRIDE for not allowing others to affect your life and the outcome of your life. I LOVE to see people succeed and you are living proof of that. I agree that the best REVENGE on others that attempt to destroy your life, your love of it, your self-esteem, is to become SUCCESSFUL. It shows them that you downright REFUSE to let them destroy you which is their goal in the first place. If you allow them the satisfaction of hurting you and destroying your ability to survive as a result of what they've done to you, they've succeeded in their goal. But If you succeed, you've PROVEN to YOURSELFf and to them that you will not allow them to hurt you and to be a victim. In my eyes, you ARE NOT A VICTIM. You are the SURVIVOR. Victims do not overcome their tragedies. The SURVIVORS are the ones that are capable of overcoming them and succeeding. Girl, never ever allow anyone to be a speed bump in the road we call life. Since you are so capable of recognizing those speed bumps now, when you see it, Yell out, get the F out of my way, if you don't I will ball you over and then put that puppy into high gear and put the pedal to the metal and run their A**es over. I love to see people who are so rebellious and are the fighters for what is right, the right to life. When we are rebellious, we refuse to conform. When we are rebellious, we refuse to be controlled. When we are rebellious, we are telling them, YOU cannot tell me what I can and cannot do so get the H*ll out of my way. When someone tells you something is bad or sinful, people have a tendency to throw themselves even more into that situation or will intentionally seek it out. This is their way of being rebellious against the person who told them it was bad or sinful in the first place and saying, You can't tell me what I can and cannot do. But unfortunately, sometimes the behaviors and the situation they throw themselves into may be harmful to them without realizing the end results of it. But it still boils down to not wanting to conform, not wanting to be controlled, not being told that you cannot do something because they consider it to be sinful or bad. I have a story when I was in college with a very well known professor. Most all girls in his class but obviously this was a man that didn't particularly care for women, he felt we were inferior and would make snide remarks while in class. I did want to pass the class. I needed to in order to graduate but he was the best in his field regarding English, had written many many books. Of course, I kept my mouth shut and tolerated it. I figured, you know, just a couple more months and I was done, no more of him and having to deal with him. Well, he also had a lot of pull with the school, etc., because of his well known name so if I said anything to him, it would threaten my grade point average which was a 4.0 ( I was determined to succeed) and might threaten my going to that school. Well, one day, that was it, I had had enough of his remarks and his degradation towards women. I got up in the middle of the class during his lecture, (I did not care, I was tired of it and no longer willing to tolerate it) walked up to his desk and said outloud, I'm withdrawing from your class. I do not like your attitude towards me or any of the other women in this class. I started to walk out the door and he said, if you leave, you will take an F and will never step another foot in this class. I said, that's a chance I'm willing to take because I'm tired of it. And then he said, you are not allowed to leave my class. If you leave, you will never attend this school again. I gave him a dirty look and walked out. He came storming out of his class and grabbed my arm forcibly and said, I WILL NOT allow you to leave my class. I just looked at him right in the face, no expression, nothing on my face and said, I did not give you permission to touch me so I would advise you to take your hands off of me right now. You cannot tell me what I can and cannot do. Something else I remembered, he said, Do you know who I am? I said, I do not care who you are nor how many books you have written. It does not GIVE you the RIGHT to be an A**hole. Other things were said but that's the gist of it. He just looked at me and I could see the fear in his face and eyes. I don't know what he saw in mine but he let go of my arm and just stared at me. I had no expression on my face whatsoever looking back at him and I just walked away. I went to the president of the school, explained what happened. I didn't take an F, didn't get kicked out, kept my 4.0 and was privately tutored with another teacher and given the test and I passed. I got so many comments from the girls at that school of congratulations, I'm glad somebody finally did it. Even some of the teachers secretly congratulated me for doing it and that he deserved it. When I saw him on campus and he saw ne, he stayed quite a distance from me and never came close to me again. Six months later, he left the school and retired from his field of profession. No one knew the real reason but the rumor around the school was because of me. So girl, TAKE PRIDE for standing up for yourself and saying NO, this is not what LIFE is supposed to be like and I downright REFUSE to let you tear me down for being able to survive and for loving my life. Honey, CONGRATULATIONS ON A JOB WELL DONE !!!!!! You are deserving of the HAPPINESS you have fought so hard to attain and don't ever let anyone tell you otherwise. Girl, BIG HUGS AND KISSES to you and take PRIDE in what you've ACCOMPLISHED and all of YOUR ACHIEVEMENTS That deserves a standing ovation..... =D> =D> =D> //;-)) You are my fellow SURVIVOR and FIGHTER of LIFE in WHAT IS RIGHT !!! Well, that sucked, I tried to put up the happy face that is clapping and he doesn't work. Let me try it again, if it doesn't work, then girl you have my support and my standing ovation for everything you've fought so hard to attain. Here are the standing O's I hope they come out =D> =D> =D> I guess not....but JOB WELL DONE !!! Angie

thank you, Kat. I figured that. I pretty much know it wasn't directed at me, yes, maybe frustration, and a little bit argumentative at times I've noticed. But obviously he is a passionate man, especially for the things he believes in. But I understand and I have to laugh at it.....LOL.....because he is definitely a character. That's for sure. //;-))

I went ahead and decided to post this in defense from a possible unprovoked attack. I doubt it is because I haven't heard Rich's side or what his true intentions were when positing it. I didn't want to confront him out in the open re: it so I sent a PM to him. But after thinking about what was said and that it was possibly directed towards me, I doubt it, but just in case, this is what I sent him "Hi, Rich. I hope you weren't referring to me in regards to being a lockstep. If it was, that was a low blow. I don't know anything about you and you know very little about me. But I will say this, once getting through her process such as I did at a very young age, sex is so much better and so much more exciting because you go in wanting to please yourself but at the same time pleasing your partner, you experiment and try anything, new discoveries. You go in celebrating life. My purpose going in is for my pleasure. But he also benefits. You know, I scratch your back, you scratch mine. Even though sex is the most profoundly selfish act, the trader principle is also applied in this situation. So I hope that low blow wasn't directed towards me. I'm not trying to be a bitch but just possibly defending myself from an unprovoked attack. I hope you weren't directing that at me. "

Hi, Mike. Being a mom and watching my son, even on the playground with kids he does not know, he will mimic them. They are doing it so he does it as well. What I found interesting is that in these tests it seems, no action was attempted on the part of the infant when the stranger wasn't encouraging action on the infant's part. The only time he attempts to "help" is when he is obersving another performing an action. I've done this with other kids I didn't know. Such as meeting a friend's kids for the first time. Like in play groups or play dates. Especially with autistic kids such as my son, they encourage play dates, etc., with other kids heavily. When Chris was dxd, I was given tons of paper work on places that I could go to meet other parents of autistic kids to help form a support group Becuase depending on severity of the child, it can be very difficult. Being a new parent with a "normal" kid that is compliant, conforms within the group is hard enough as it is. But when you get a child, that is very independent and individual and does not want to conform, it gets very challenging. So being in playgroups with kids I did not know and my son being there, being around other parents I did not know, etc., they still mimicked others. I also agree that human beings in order to survive have to set goals and have to perform those actions in order to attain that goal. Human beings have a strong need for certainity in their lives. When you've set a goal and work towards that goal and finally attain it, you've also attained certainty of your action. I hope that made sense. It makes sense in my head but I may have screwed it all up when writing it. I like that you're not "blanking out" and accepting what someone else is telling you, what it is, and what their conclusions of it are. One of the things Ayn Rand talks about in her books which I'm going through now and going to put some excerpts up of introspection and other areas which I hope everyone will be able to get something from. This is where an individual asks himself a question, and then "blanks out" the answer and never THINKS for HIMSELF. You didn't do this. You thought of a question and started to think about what the possible "cause" was, you didn't blank it out. You came to the conclusion that it was man's strong urge to set goals, action, and the completing it. I LIKE THAT A LOT You just performed cause and effect as well as Law of Identity. Mike, you truly don't believe that your mind is futile. I've so many people like this and it is so sad to see. Instead of investigating it themselves, they rely on others to tell them the answer. They never stop to think, is the right or is the wrong?? Are there any contradictions, what other tests can be performed to rebutt it, etc. They accept it as is without ever thinking about it themselves. And these individuals truly believe that their minds are futile and that man is to doubt his own senses, his own mind, his own conclusions. He believes that is mind is impotent. They believe that the only way you can learn for yourself is by what others tell you. And you're not this way.....I LIKE THAT A LOT. But I agree with you. I think there are too many factors that are not being taken into account; such as, mimicking, and goals, action, and certainty that is being performed by the infant. What I've noticed with kids be it a stranger or family, they watch very closely in an attempt to understand their surroundings better. Just because the infant shows very little verbal development, doesn't mean he's incapable of learning such as this article implies. His sense of sight is what will give him the most information about his surroundings. Then watching the events unfold before him he is able to understand it better, what the purpose is, what the cause is, why someone is doing something. But the big question that is so prevelant in this article and is not answered and you addressed the question in the first post was "Why doesn't the infant do anything when the stranger is not showing him how to act or showing him to grab something?" When the stranger throws it down on the ground, etc., and performs no other action, the child is going to look at him and be like, what the hell was that, he would be completely bewildered on what the purpose of it was and wouldn't know the purpose (goal ) of what his action was. But when the stranger of course bends down and very slowly watching him for an entire 10 seconds, I mean come on now, of course the child is observing and will start to mimic in an attempt to figure out what he is doing and what his purpose is. So he will attempt to reach for the same thing. So both of our minds right now just put a theory together to rebutt this supposed new evidence. A theory based on mimicking, goal, action, completion, and certainty. For me, personally, I would need a LOT more evidence than that to make it conclusive and definitive. Angie //;-))

Hi, Mike. Being a mom, one thing I find interesting that isn't mentioned in the article is that kids this age mimic a lot. They're learning. I've played games with my son at this age on the floor with him. If I just sat there, he wouldn't do anything. But as soon as I would start to do something such as reach for his toy or the remote to change the channel to something else, he would also start to reach for it. It's the same idea as when you teach your little ones at 8 or 9 months or ever younger to play peekaboo. Chris saw me do it at first and then immitated it. It seems that by throwing the object down on the ground the child is going to stare at him in bewilderment. But if he starts to reach for the object, of course he is going to go for it because he's imitating him. I have a book called parenthood the first 5 years. It's like a handguide to give new parents an idea of what to expect, miles, stones, teething, and behaviors that are exhibited during the first 5 years and mimicking is addressed in this book even before the age of 12 months; such as playing peekaboo. This is just a mom's perspective and what I've seen Chris do while growing up. Is it just me or did I miss something? I'll read it over again to make sure.

I do want to clarify something re: what I said above with my marriage. I'm still not lookig for someone to date or meet up with, etc. At least not for a long time. I want my freedom to do what I want, when I went, etc. I'm just looking for friendly conversation regarding this philosophy, family, past situations, etc.

Hi, Kevin. That's an interesting one because I just tore apart my marriage and discovered went wrong which was very interesting for me to look at. Aside from the controlling behavior, possessiveness, differences in value, materialism, etc., the relationship was doomed before it got out of the starting gate. This was an interesting one for me to discover and a little disturbing and I agree with what Ayn Rand said regarding this. When I read it at first, I didn't agree with it but now I do because I now understand it. A friend asked me to read a book about the Myth of Monogamy which highly offended me but is very accurate on how relationships work under the philosophy where man holds that pain and destruction as his only means of existence. No. There was no infidelity in my marriage but asked me to read it and wanted to know what I thought which, yes, I tore the book apart and found contradictions, etc. Since I was already in the process of analyzing my relationship, this book brought all the other issues to the forefront. What I realized and finally understood why Ayn Rand said this is the partner you keep at home is the one you hate the most but all others outside of that partner is the one who reflects the deepest vision of himself and are the ones you are the most attracted to. Have you ever wondered why in the beginning of the relationship everything is so wonderful, sex is great and new, etc., but as time goes on, you begin to lose interest and you start to fall into the same routine, sex is not as enjoyable as before nor as frequent, and yes, has a lot to do with what we value and the components of destruction within the relationship. There are many components of destruction....the big one is guilt, fear, shame, contradictions, religion, force, possessiveness, controlling behavior, mind games that people play, materialism, sacrifice, etc. There are so many it's difficult to count them all. These all play into the demise of the relationship. It's not just infidelity that is the homewrecker. Anyone that lives under the code that pain and destuction is his constant state of existence ultimately will not survive. He is continously working for his own destruction and this goes for relationships too. You get two people that are working towards their own destruction, there is only one outcome, death of the relationship. I'll write more about this one I'm sure. Also the mind very much affects what you are capable of feeling and not feeling as well as what you value will influence the outcome of your health and overall well being...I'm living proof of that and what I valued then literally almost killed me. Which this is another interesting topic to get into. More later on these I'm sure.

Wait....forgot about this one that I didn't put in the last post. With the exception of the blood flowing through my veins, into my arteries and then through the chambers of my heart and out again. And with the exception of the air that I inhale through my mouth or nose into my lungs, through the bronchial tubes and exhaled out. With the exception of the kidneys and liver that filter the toxins from my body then pass through the uereters into the bladder and then passed out of the body through the urethra. You get the idea. These are functions of my body that I do not have a conscious awareness of in turn I'm unable to make conscious decisions for these functions to happen in my body.

Hi, Ellen. I agree but the act of tying a shoe was learned on my part when I was a very small child; right? If I didn't learn it beforehand, I never would know how to do it in the first place. Observing the information through the senses, especially sight, acquiring information and learning it and then integrating it is the heirarchy of knowledge. Everything we do in our daily lives from tying our shoes to learning what one plus one is all due to conscious awareness and not unconscious decisions. When you start with one action and learn why you do it and what the purose is and what the goal is, the more you understand. The more you are able to apply what you just learned into other areas of your life and then it builds from there, all the way to tying my shoes. So everything I do in my daily life is due to conscious awareness and the heirarchy of knowledge. //;-))