CNA

Hi, Paul I am so grateful I wasn't exposed to this stuff as a kid. I think sometimes, Did I ever form a belief in a God? Honestly, the more I think about it I can honestly say, No, I never formed that belief. In fact, I rejected it heavily when I was very young and never took a step in that direction. At that time, I sensed something was bad about it. Even the very few times I walked into a church, it majorily gave me the heebie jeebies and I pretty much stayed clear of it. I look back on my life and what I've been through and look at how much I've been exposed to it, which is practically nill, I can honestly say I never formed the belief. My exposure and knowledge of religion is very close to being zero. And I am so grateful for that. As I read more and more about religion on O'ist sites, I become even more grateful that I am pure in that sense. Since I know very little about it, my biggest problem with the whole religious thing, then and now, was people that formed the "belief" of a being you could not see and that this being could help make your life better or that you could pray to him to get what you wanted, etc. For me and my realization is that it was up to ME, to put hope into MYSELF and no one else. The way I look at Hope and that whole issue is that Hope comes from within and nowhere else. After what I read in Nick's post, I am very very grateful I never formed a belief in it. I am so very grateful I was never exposed to it other than my 2 to 3 week stint which I didn't take it seriously and thought it was a joke and then what I've seen on O'ist sites and the little I've been learning. I've been told that different religions are not all about a mean angry guy in the sky type deal. But there are many different variations of it and so on. I don't know. Obviously there are many different variations and interpretations of it. What a way to be pulled in so many different directions. Even more grateful now I never formed a belief and never took a step in that direction. I have a friend that is an O'ist himself but grew up in a very strict religious family. But at the age of 23 or so in med school, he finally rejected it with a vengence. He is not on forums, etc., but is involved in ARI, O'ism, etc. and this is what he wrote to me the other night about O'ists, etc, "balking with physics and the origins of the universe in ways that remind me of the christian literalists....and supporting Israel too much, a theocracy." He has noticed the same thing as you have and Christianity or such type religion. We were talking about O'ists that follow so blindly amongst various other aspects of it, etc. And the above is part of what he has sent me in addition to other emails over the last few days or so. But he told me the same, parallels between O'ism and Christianity and this is coming from a man who has been involved with ARI for many years. I can't talk about religion since I have no understanding of it, beliefs formed, knowledge, etc., and prefer to keep it that way. But I just wanted to post this to let you know that you're definitely not the only one that sees the parallel of O'ism and Christianity. Angie As always, edited for clarification, never fails with me and how I am. keeping it as real and as clear as possible.....LOL

Hi, Dennis. My parents were definitely not O'ists but put a toe or two into religion. I had very very little exposure to it growing up. I had a big 2 or 3 week whopping stint into it and even then didn't take it seriously and thought it was a joke and was something other people chose to do. My parents were mormons. Well, I should say baptized as mormons and grew up in their own families practicing it but later rejected it and didn't push it onto me or my sister. I was never baptized so I guess I can say I am pure that way....LOL Since God was very rarely brought up in my home, my parents gave us a choice that if we wanted to pursue it when we got older, it would be our choice. My sister pursued it when she was 16 I think and finally baptized and was hardcore into it for a period of time and then stopped. For me, at such a young age when asked if I was going to pursue it as my sister did and finally be baptized, etc., I said of all things, no, it's evil. LOL. The short period of 2 to 3 weeks where I actually did open up a bible, I never even read it. I was there to play so I actually found myself defacing it and drawing my artwork in the bible. So I would say that I am fortunate and can truly say, I'm as pure as they come and I am one human who truly hasn't been touched by it. Even though religion is everywhere, there are people such as myself out there that have never been exposed to it, who never even knew who Mary was, etc. I know of someone named Jesus and a guy named -- see, shows how much I know of religion and the people involved. I can't even remember his name. The ten commandments guy, Moses. See, I knew I'd remember it. So religion has never been a part of my life and obviously is not something that is necessary for me to know about in order to sustain my life. I'm one of the very few and fortunate humans walking this earth who truly have never been touched by it. Believe it or not, I've learned more about religion on the O'ist sites than I have in my entire life. And quite frankly, since I was never exposed to it other than my 2 to 3 week stint as a child and what I've been exposed to on O'ist sites, I truly have no desire/want to pursue any knowledge into it. I've managed to stay clear of it this long and plan on keeping it that way. Obviously for me, religion was never a part of my life and is not a necessary aspect for ME as a human to survive. Proud to be Pure in that way !! But if someone feels the need to get into it or practice it, that's their choice. I don't have a problem with it just as long as they don't push it onto me and I won't push my way of life onto them. Very Pure Angie Clarification: The very very few times I did walk into a church when I was very young, I didn't like being in there one bit. At that time and being so young, I couldn't identify why I got such bad feelings being in there. All I knew and the only words I could put to it at that time was that there was something bad about it and eventually put the word "evil" to it. Although I knew people who went to church, friends, etc., and my knowing this, I did find myself, when my life was getting brutal by others around me and unbearable, I did find myself, the very few times, praying for him or just someone to help make my situation better. But I quickly realized that no one could help my situation other than myself and it was up to me to make the best of my situation until I could get out and eventually I did and made the choice to finally leave and it was one of the best choices I have ever made !!

My cock eyed friend , I like your style and I actually got to see a serious side to you. I like it. Sorry it has taken me so long to respond but have been very busy and plus taking some time off from O'ist sites right now and it's been a nice little respite for me and very much enjoying it !! but still stopping by to see what's been going on. I've given "the way out is the way in" some thought but haven't devoted much time to it lately. My life has been pretty busy so haven't had much time to play with this idea but sure I will eventually as I am always thinking about something or other or playing with some idea and always ripping it apart. I liked your post, loved the forest deal. Although have been lost in the forest as well as the desert as well as an abandoned mine and various others before, don't ask please, VERY adventurous as a child and still am to this day. And after a while, everything starts to look the freakin' same and it really sucks the big one.....LOL Although was with many friends in the abandoned mine and was definitely an adventure I won't ever forget, oh, and plus coming out of the mine, not the same way we came in, let us out on the other side, onto fine gravel with 2 friends behind me. We all slipped, very loose gravel, and started sliding down the side of the mountain. But after all of us digging feet and hands into the gravel, we came to a stop about 3 feet short of going over the cliff. The girl in the very back got up first and very carefully and slowly made her way to the side and then the girl behind me did the same and then I finally got up and made it to the side. Walked over to the drop off and grateful we stopped in time because if not we would have plummeted an easy 300 or more feet to the bottom. The crazy and stupid stuff I used to do as a kid....amazing. Still fun having adventures though and always looking forward to a new one but just no more mines, young when that one happened. But I enjoyed your post, brought back some of my own funky memories....LOL Although hair raising, they were adventures I will never forget and some were quite fun !! Angie

Happy B-Day, Mike !! and hope you enjoyed every moment of it !!

You are on the right track. It leads to finding something, the way out is the way in. But you always return no matter what. You can leave it but only temporarily, you always return to yourself and finding it again !! That part I got down. It's just putting all the others together in a more detailed way. But Rich, you are on the right track. But for me, there is still much more to go and having fun with it !! Angie

Hi, LW. You're funny. No, you weren't rambling at all. This one is interesting for me in the way it does point to one specific thing and I know what it is but it is just building that bridge so to speak to get to it. And what it seems on the surface isn't what it truly means. There is a lot with this one and I'm still working on it as usual. Rush is a group that is heavy into O'ism, at least the song writer is. In each of their songs, the lyrics don't concentrate on one aspect of O'ism. It touches on many different aspects of O'ism and it's just a matter of tearing it apart, taking certain words and building on it to get to the true meaning of it which is interesting for me to pick apart and is fun for me. Each word ties into the first somehow. It's just building on it from there. And it will span the entire philosophy. Neil is a phenomenal writer and a phenomenal drummer. Here are the lyrics to the song but doesn't help me much in tearing apart the Way out is the way in. But it is all tied in somehow. The experience slips away, even though I wasn't aware of AR's view when picking it apart, considering I haven't read many of the books regarding the philosophy, etc., I'm just over here wingin' it as usual but found out recently what AR meant by experience. And it is very true with this philosophy, experience slips away, as in the example I gave up above. There are many pitfalls to using your experiences as a form of knowledge especially when there are no ideas involved, ethics, etc. It very much can work against you as in the case of Tom Lykus. But here are the rest of the lyrics to the song. I'm picking it apart, slowly but surely but stuck right now. I am sure eventually something will happen, evidence will present itself eventually, reading a post or something in my own life, etc., that will make it more clear and I will take off running with it happily !! But I'm getting there. It's just each line has to be picked apart and each touches on some aspect of the philosophy. But right now the way out is the way in and this points directly to it and in a sense is the main path, the rest just has to be tied into it. The way out Is the way in The way out Is the way in... Out of touch With the weather and the wind direction With the sunrise And the phases of the moon Out of touch With life in the land of the loving With the living night And the darkness at high noon You can never break the chain There is never love without pain A gentle hand, a secret touch on the heart Out of sync With the rhythm of my own reactions With the things that last And the things that come apart Out of sync With love in the land of the living A gentle hand, a secret touch on the heart A healing hand, a secret touch on the heart There is never love without pain Life is a power that remains Any other suggestions are definitely appreciated Angie P.S. Thinking more about it now, I know without a doubt what it points to and that realization just re-confirmed my first thought of what it truly touches on.

Come on you guys. This has now turned into the Love Thread. It's wonderful to see all the different and wonderful temperments on this thread and on OL. It's an eclectic group of people. It's who we are as individuals. There are those that are proper to those who are cock eyed bristle haired hyenas It's all good. It's the LOVE THREAD.....LOL Jody, it is wonderful to hear that you are back and you know I've always got your back !! Always Fiesty Angie

Major clarification, the reference made to not finding the right one yet and knowing where to find him now with the happy face was meant in the way of I know where to find him, meaning O'ist land and hopefully having the same values as mine I'm definitely not looking right now but probably will be looking one day sometime in the "way distant" future. Just seriously wanted to clarify that. Angie

Hi, Kat. I'm working with very little as well. I pick up words all the time from various places or just when thinking about something and then wanting to build on it and around it to come to a conclusion. These particular words are lyrics from all groups Rush, or the ones I picked up on in Mike's post not too long ago, past, present, future. As you know, Neil from Rush is also heavy into Objectivism and almost every single song he writes is about O'ism. But when talking with someone or reading or listening to music, etc., even if the words are not directly related to O'ism itself, I'll pick the words apart and apply them somehow to O'ism and then a conclusion. A really quick example of experience slips away -- these words sitting in the back of my head a while ago and then read a post shortly thereafter, it made the experience slips away words easier to build on. But real quickly, not full explanation but a quick example, people have a tendency to use their experiences to predict a future outcome or use their experiences to work against them rather than for them. A good example is I know many women that have used their past experiences with men and how they've been treated to predict "possible" future events with another mate; such as, cheating. Some I know have been cheated on numerous times and they go into the next relationship with suspicion that it just might happen again. This only breeds destruction in the way of suspicion and distrust before the relationship even gets out of the gate. It is working against them and the relationship is strained from the start. I know a few men that also think this way due to their mate cheating. They automatically classify all women to be cheaters and vice versa because of the way they've been treated in the past. Now looking at my own life and my own past relationships which we've all had a few that were not the ideal circumstances, I've had men that have cheated on me, etc., just not the nicest of guys. I haven't found the right one yet but know where to find him now. But I never once went into my next relationship with baggage so to speak from the past relationship. I do not anticipate an "event" that "might" happen. I'm not suspicious of him not until he gives me a reason while in the present to suspect otherwise. Basically, I wait for the situtation to present itself first while in the present and then deal with it appropriately. Every man is different and so is every woman in terms of what they value. Tom Lykus is a good example of using past experiences to destroy him and his future relationships. He believes all women are to be treated like dirt. But I do not believe in conditioning and that his experiences from his past relationships have made him this way. It was his choice to either have it work for him or against him. He chose to make it work against him. But also the experience slips away can also be used in terms of introspection and extrospection but also the idea of "enjoying the moment" that is also heavily involved in this philosophy was brought up. But mostly after thinking about those 3 words and the post I read it boiled down to introspection and extrospection. But the thoughts pretty much covered ethics, reason, intro, extro, etc. But my focus now is on "The way out is the way in." And I'm also working with very little on this. I have a few ideas that I can start working with and to build this. These are words or phrases that probably won't be found in AR philosophy. These are words or phrases that I've picked up from talking with people, reading, etc. And when hearing them or reading them, it will stick in my head. And when this happens, I will as always put more thought into it and will slowly start tearing it down to come to a conclusion usually by looking at my own life in the present and/or delving a little into my past. What I'm looking for is if anyone has any suggestions about "The way out is the way in" or possibly more words to throw out there. I am very much looking forward to tearing this one apart and I know it will be fun and might be a heavy conclusion for me. I know it's not a lot to work with and not expecting many posts regarding it. I know if I don't get any responses I'm sure I'll find a post someplace that will indirectly relate to these words. But any suggestions would be appreciated and thank you Angie

As usual, always thinking about something and then looking for something that will relate to the words that have come to my mind and then can build on it from there. I've been browsing many sites looking for a post that may relate to these words that have come to mind. The words are "The way out is the way in." I have a few ideas already that I'm playing with and how it MAY relate to the meaning of these words. The obvious and most simplistic one to me is of course walking into a situation that is irrational and simply enough you walk out the same way you came in. But for me, there's much more to it. I'm also looking at contradictions, how people contradict themselves, etc., and how this may play into these words, also looking at mind aspects of it, reason, ethics, etc. A while back the words "experience slips away," came to mind, saw a post that indirectly related to these words and went from there and built on it and then came to a conclusion. Does anyone have any suggestions or maybe additional words to throw out there regarding "The way out is the way in?" I have many other words to go by that may relate to these words but right now having a hard time sorting it out into groups and then take each word in that group and build on that word. And from there, taking all the words and conclusions in each group and forming one main conclusion, if that made any sense....LOL. Well, it made sense to me. I have a weird way sometimes of going about analyzing and drawing conclusions. I've talked to a few people about this and have had some interesting suggestions. Any additional ones are greatly appreciated I'm hoping not to lose this one and not progressing with it and forming it. But I've also in the past have worked on words and ideas and wanting to understand them and draw them into one conclusion (integrate them) that literally took me months to finally figure it out. Right now I'm looking at my present life mostly but also a little of my past, I guess introspection as well as looking on sites and other posts, I guess extrospection to help me build this one. Just looking for suggestions Angie

You're so bad, Kat !! You just had to instigate it even more. I can think of many things to say about slipping on banana peels and big weenies and then you have to bring in nuts and pictures on top of it.....LOL Let the imagination run wild !! I know mine is and I'm laughing my ass off right now. But I'm still a lady, proper and true O:) yeah, right !! I think it would be very wise to lock this baby down again. //;-))

Rich, I so agree with health issues and meat or protein, period. I eat meat but not much. I've never really liked the taste of it anyway but on ocassion will eat it. I'll put out one health issue where the first thing a doctor will tell the patient is: Cut out all meat, watch your protein intake, keep it to a minimum which is not easy to do since protein is in most of what we eat. And that health condition is called kidney failure. If you are spilling even the tiniest amount of protein from the kidneys, (very early stages of kideny failure) medication and eliminating meat will slow the amount of damage that has already been done and will help save your ass from dialysis. Trust me, dialysis is not pretty and neither is a kidney transplant. I had my own possible scare and the thought was brought to the forefront, god damn, I may eventually need dialysis which will eventually kill me or get on the waiting list for a kidney transplant. Protein is present in most of the foods we eat, believe it or not. As we all know, meat is the ridden with protein. Go look at the nutrition label on your can of corn or green beans and you will see protein and the amount that is in it although I'm sure you already know this since you seem to take care of yourself anyway. But if you have any problems at all with your kidneys, meat will take its serious toll. Unfortunately, here about 4 or 5 years ago with my own health problems which some on here know about, I started spilling trace amounts of protein and blood in the urine (hematuria), I was relatively calm about it but the doctors treated it as a four alarm fire. The first thing I was told was cut out as much protein as possible, do not eat any meat, here is some medication. From there, they ran an amazing amount of tests which all came back negative. The diet I was put on was horrendous. But a plus on my side, I don't eat much meat in the first place so it wasn't much of a lifestyle change for me and adjusted nicely to it as I always do. But it was a false alarm and everything turned out fine, extremely healthy in that department and haven't had a scare since and my kidneys are extremely health...woooohoooo !! Meat can be brutal on the body, especially if there are deleterious health conditions present such as kideny failure, etc. I "try" to take care of myself but it is not always easy. But not much into red meat, etc. I'll eat on ocassion boneless, skinless chicken breast or fish but not often. I'm very much into pastas, salads, breads, etc. The almost near vegan due to wanting to live longer !! Angie

Gary, that's a damn big weenie you got there my cock eyed friend.....hehehehe //;-)) In order to see the whole perspective of it, I may need bigger eyes LOL :eek: I will definitely stop now because this whole conversation could get ugly and vulgar real quick. Rich, yeah, I'm a little slow too #-o d'oh. What got me was the remarks made when Jody left. I didn't go over there to read. I saw the post here and then the link so went to check it out, read it, thought it was a low blow, came back here, and started to read the rest of the posts about it. I'm not seeking it out, trust me, far from that. I don't intentionally go looking for drama such as that. I just wanted to know the full story with Jody. First, I've browsed many sites that have something going on with O'ism, not to post but to find something to pick apart which I know you know about this because I've talked to you about some of it, you know, taking a few words that were posted and then tearing it apart, building on it, and conclusion based on the philosophy or looking at my own life to get examples of it and build from there. You know what I'm talking about. So anyway....since browsing many sites, I've seen many satirical type posts that seemed just as that but their intention was quite different. Apparently Gary has been here a while but I don't browse OL that much so I didn't know and that he's been having fun with everyone. Don't get me wrong, I do browse OL but don't go heavily into the site. I don't stay up on it. When I get time, I do browse a little. When I read it even though "seemingly" satirical, I wanted to say something in Jody's defense. I know he's a big boy and can take care of himself and hold his own, etc., etc. But you know, when a seemingly cock eyed bristle haired hyena with a big wanker comes over here to bash Jody over the head, I'll be there in his defense because the bashing is wholeheartedly unjustified. I won't ever take a step in their direction. But for them to come over here to do more bashing is very telling; these types of people are the weakest of their "group" and are the ones that are looking for the most praise and attention from their clan. Now if he's (Jody) a "public" basher himself, then he can walk that road alone and I am nowhere in sight to defend him or offer support which I'm sure he is not a basher anyway. (Everybody has their harsh words of course. Most keep them private. Well, I've kept mine private regarding certain issues or regarding other bashers with the exception of Gary and that was done in defense.) I don't plan on taking a hiatus from O'ist sites. I'm still here browsing and looking for material. What goes on amongst the others, it doesn't affect my life. I don't know them. It just rubbed me the wrong way when someone such as Jody, honest and true, etc., is attacked for making a choice that SOLO is no longer worthy of his presence. I've developed an allergy, not anaphylactic shock. LOL Out of all the sites I've been browsing, there are a few I know to stay away from. But it seems more and more of them are about ready to self-destruct. There are a few sites I do browse still, OL being one of them !! So I'm still here. Not here often but still kickin' it. //;-)) Rich, to one of my Buds Angie As always, edited, to make sure it is more clear.

Eeek, now you guys are running around butt naked. Ohmigod, I so have to cover my eyes now and start giggling. Jody, my dear, apparently I no longer have your back. It looks like Gary is the one who literally has your back now…..LOL Do I dare bring in the small kiwi shrimp that seems to have made its presence known in all of this butt naked running around the forum with it all hangin’ and swingin’ about? LMAO Oh, that was so rude of me. Pardon if I offended anyone. I so have to get off of this because my lady like demeanor will quickly go out the door and I will show my true colors as to how much one of the guys I can be !! So how’s it hangin’, fellas or can us girls even tell? Please don’t answer. I'm sure you all have big weenies and are very PROUD of them.....LMAO :oops: ….I’m so bad, shame on me….before any more vulgarities slip out of my mouth, I so have to end this post. By the way, Gary, from this point on, you’ll also be known as the cock eyed bristle haired hyena. LOL ;) I'm sure Jody is.....ummmmm, what do they call that, metrosexual....LOL Although I'm sure he is hetero. Frisky and Fiery Angie

Mike, it was the mother of all banana peels, did a few flips, a hand stand and then landed flat on my BIG ass. I'm glad you enjoyed my ripping into Gary. It seriously rubbed me the wrong way when I read it and then the other posts. I read it this morning and turned very frisky because of it. Figured I would walk away from it and just chill out for a while but that didn't work. I just had to say it, to get it off my chest. Gary, LMAO. I'm relieved you weren't the lone billy club wielding straggler because I was ready for a confrontation. I'm not into confrontation but will when it is called for. But when dealing with people such as that over on SOLO, I wouldn't take a step in their direction of going over there and playing the same game. It's just it seemed the cock eyed bristled hair straggler, similar to a hyena that has had its ass kicked one too many times, came over onto this territory thinking he could get away with the last bash over the head and not feel any of the ramifications for it. I'm glad to hear that you and Jody are way more than buddies, if you know what I mean !! LOL Jody, I got your back, Baby !! LOL Angie

Hi, Ellen After re-reading the post earlier today again, I also then took it the same way you did...the spin off. It's so unfortunate to see all the name calling, etc., especially when it is towards truly decent people. When I saw the bickering towards Jody or any others that I know are sincere, true, and sweethearts, I will definitely put my 2 cents in in their defense. Gary does seem to have a colorful style as you say. But if it is just that, "the spin off", then I truly apologize to Gary for it and my harsh words. But if not, my post still stands and those are my thoughts about that whole ordeal and the type of people they are. Angie

Hi, Ellen, maybe I did misunderstand the post. Different writing style than what I am used to seeing. What made me upset was the name calling, inarticulate, dimwitted Jody, etc., etc. The way it was presented it seemed as if it was directed at him when it was being written. If this is my misunderstanding which it looks like it is, then I sincerely apologize to Gary for my harsh words and I will wholeheartedly retract what I said. I went over there and read some other posts and just horrified by it. I don't really care of what is going on over there. I do not know any of the parties involved. But when someone attacks another that I know for a fact is a complete sweetheart and so kind and sincere and is by no means dimwitted or inarticulate, I'll put my 2 cents in, no matter how harsh the words are. I take full resonsibility for those words. Gary, I'm not quite used to your writing style and obviously I misinterpreted your post. I truly apologize for my harsh words to you. But that post I put up still stands for the others. And I am sure you know what others I am referring. Ellen, quite honestly, I've become a little allergic to the O'ist sites now, not OL but the others. I ocassionally browse other sites, although not a member, looking for stuff to pick apart and think about on my own even though I may not express them to others. And after reading so much bickering and more bickering, it's like what's the point of even becoming involved in it. When I found out about the comments made about Jody's leaving, it did make me upset. He's doing what is best for him and his life. And it's unfortunate that he would get flack for something such as that or any others that would catch flack for leaving. With all the banning that is going on over there or those that are leaving on their own, OL will definitely have a lot of newcomers. Again apologies to Gary. Angie

Jody, Now isn't that just classic and so very telling. For me, actions always speaks louder than words. The one lone straggler of the "group" comes running over here hunched over with glazed over eyes that are mucuous filled and are cess pools of disease with a grotesquely distorted face with billy club in hand to bash you over the head one last time for good measure. Then runs back to his little clan hooping and hollering over his triumph of what he has just done and so desparately hoping for "praise" and "approval" from the "group" he so heavily abides by. He doesn't do this because HE THINKS it is right. He does this because the "group" thinks it's right. He doesn't think for himself. He thinks for the Institution and what the Institution thinks is right. I'm sure I'll be bashed over the head for this at some point or another. But what I'm going to say is not for you or anyone on OL or any O'ist who sees all this BS for what it truly is, this kind of behavior from the "group." Tell me my desolate friends when you've come to the end of your road that you have ultimately chosen to take and you've realized how lonely and rejected you feel, whose fault is it? Will you ultimately blame yourself for the poor decisions you have made and why you feel so lonely or will you blame the Institution and group for the way your life has ultimately turned out? My desolate friends, YOU THINK for the Institution. You blindly follow what your "group" believes is right and HOW THEY THINK you should live your life. You do not own your mind. The Institution does. All of this in the name of social rising. This is what you value. The more social pull you have the more powerful you seem to think you are. When you're drowning your sorrows in the bottle of whiskey you just pounded and thinking to yourself, if I just bash one more person over the head, I'll be happy. The Institution will be happy. If the Institution is happy, then that must mean I am also happy. Stop thinking for the "group" and the Institution and start thinking for yourself. What is even more disturbing about this is the fact they are taking "PRIDE" and "ENJOYMENT" in beating people down. I have one very harsh conclusion regarding these types of people and I am sure most here know what I would say. Since this is a public forum, I will not express my more brutal judgment and how I see these people to truly be. My more harsh judgment will be done privately and better believe it is a lot more brutal. This is in defense of Jody and it's a bunch of bullshit that they would play these childish god damn games and start bashing someone over the head because Jody THINKS what they are doing is wrong. And they're pissed off because they can't control him and his thoughts. So what do they do, start bashing him over the head. God damn, control freaks. Jody, you did the right thing. Your actions speaks volumes and is indicative of what you truly value for yourself and what YOU THINK is best for yourself and your life. You go, BOY !! Tell them to stick it where the sun don't shine although the silver spoon that's been jammed up their asses for so long might get in the way. I so hope this is the rant folder. I needed to blow off some serious steam about this. Angie

Ciro, Thank you also for the link. As you said, about social meta stuff, for me, it has nothing to do with that. It helps me further my understanding and knowledge of my surroundings, especially of those I am close with and what their true intentions may be towards me, reading them, etc. For instance, the show I watched last night gave me a different perspective of the world and was quite disturbing to watch, very graphic. But their choice to live that way. Even if someone does classify it as social meta, whatever, they can bite me because I really don't care. All I'm looking for is to help further my own understanding and that's it. So don't worry one bit if it came off as that. It's just our desire to help ourselves understand our surroundings better. Angie

Since I have a spare minute now, if you would like me to I can try to find some pictures of people that have strain on their faces versus others that don't; such as, LP, NB, etc., where there is very little strain on their face. It is indicative of the life they lead versus the man that always looks stressed out. Or a good example of a show I watched lastnight about drug addicts, bums, etc., that were being followed around in their daily lives. The amount of strain on these people's face are very telling of what they value, extremely unhappy looking, evading reality, evading to make a choice, evading to take responsibility for their lives versus LP, NB's wonderful no strain on their faces look. I'm sure you know what I'm saying but I can show photos of what I'm saying if you'd like me to. Haven't checked the link yet that you provided but will. I'm not at home now and don't want to load anything on this computer without their permission first. Angie

And of course, Ciro, I can't load the damn thing and don't have a lot of time now to do it. But I think I know who you are talking about because I've seen these types of shows before and I would agree with you, it is quite interesting. I have a good example of what AR talks about and things I've seen as well...how can you tell if a man enjoys watching someone suffering by his facial expressions. There is a movie where I can seriously see it. I don't know about others but I personally can see it. Mel Gibson's the Passion of Christ. I haven't seen it all but did see bits and pieces of it. If you want to know what it looks like to see a facial expression of a man "enjoying" watching another man suffering, go to the scene of the movie where Jesus is being beaten brutally by the 2 men with the whips. Watch their faces and you will be able to tell which one gets off on human suffering. And it is quite disturbing. Unfortunately, I have also seen this facial expression on my mom's face when talking to her about more private matters. And again, seriously disturbing. This is the stuff I am talking about when I posted my first response. But when I get more time to load it, I'll go check it out but I think I know who he is. Angie

oh, yes, Ciro. I've seen these. Not this particular one but have watched many shows about facial expressions and the interesting one is how to tell when someone is lying to you. Involuntary muscle contractions in the face when people lie versus when they are telling the truth, they won't squint their nose or raise their eyebrows real quick, etc. Their new research into it. It was a very interesting program. I came back on to clarify what I said in more detail about my post. What LW said about aggressive behavior, etc., before a word is even spoken, of course. But I'm talking for me overall the areas that I personally watch when talking with someone. But I'll go check out that site real quick. Angie

I agree, Ciro. When I talk with someone or meet for the first time, the first thing I look at are their eyes. It tells me volumes. I'll then look at their face, how happy they seem, how much strain may be there. This gives me an idea of what kind of life they lead. The more strain on their face the unhappier they seem to be. As I talk with somebody, I'm very aware of their demeanor, how they hold themselves, how much eye contact there is, their facial expressions when they talk, their body movements. But for me what is most telling and how comfortable they are is the avoidance of eye contact or fleeting eye contact I should say. It tells me they're uncomfortable for some reason. But talking with them more, I can get a pretty good idea as to why they are uncomfortable and unhappy. Even in photos that I look at of people, the first thing I look at are their eyes, and then their face and how much strain there may be, etc. For me, it speaks volumes of who they are and what type of life they may lead. I've noticed the more strain there is it is indicative of their present life and what they might be going through. To what extent, I don't know. But the harder the strain it seems, the more there is evasion of reality amongst many others. I've known many people this way. My mom is one of them (evasion of reality, much strain on her face. My sister is the same way, much strain and complete evasion of reality at all costs, as well as many other people I've known and have been friends with.) But I'm the same way.....very aware of people and watching them closely when I talk with someone. But it's difficult to "judge" someone by what they look like. Once I get to know them, then it speaks volumes of who they truly are. Angie

Me personally, I agree with AR in this regard as to the present. I honestly believe she was performing introspection while in the present as well as extrospection while in the present. I've even posted about this when I first came to this site, Looking for a real life John Galt, and then the posts thereafter with examples of it from her book Atlas. When I perform introspection or extrospection while in the present, I form rational beliefs by asking myself question after question and answer after answer as to why I do what I do. For me, every action, every emotion should be analzyed while in the present to form those "rational" beliefs. It has so much to do with the "present." Everyone knows that as time goes on, you forget so much, things become distorted, you forget exactly what you were feeling, your emotions, everything that was said, etc. Or you may start mixing up memories. I look to my past sometimes to help me explore ideas and situations to help me understand better why I may be doing something while in the present or as to why others may be doing what they are doing while in the present. It's not always 100 percent accurate but it was a way for me personally to form those rational beliefs as to why "I" thought I was doing what I was doing. This is just my opinion regarding it. I don't know enough about AR, etc., but what I do know is that this is how I personally formed my rational beliefs and it was performing introspection and extrospection while in the present. I don't have all the answers and I can't answer every single question. But as I've gone along performing it this way, it's enabled me to figure things out more accurately. Angie

Thank you, Kat, for the post. Very interesting considering what's going on. I've read the posts and links about ARI and have learned quite a bit and it speaks volumes. Angie