moralist

I do. As an adult, Bob chose to refuse to become aware of himself, and so he gets the just and deserved consequences of his own choice. Greg

Spot on, Tony. The government isn't the primary cause because it can only be what people created in their own image, driven by their own weak parasitic dependent need for it to educate them, employ them, underwrite their debts, indemnify them, give them benefits checks, and take care of their health. It's peoples' own infantile need for the government to be their mommie which grants it such tremendous intrusive power over their lives. Freedom is never revoked. People can only piss it away. In my opinion, only children are innocent. When they get older they can choose either to grow up and out of their infantile condition, or to remain in it. Bob's mentally crippled state was his defense mechanism against his parents mindfuck. (Sorry, there's just no other word to describe the atrocity of parents dumping their own unresolved issues onto their kids just as they were dumped onto them.) He had the choice to grow out of it to become a self aware adult, but instead chose to reject adult self reflection by embracing his impairment as if it was a virtue. And because of his taking so much pride in what he himself freely chose not to grow out of, if he had any kids there is the likely potential for him to pass his condition onto them as it was passed onto him. Greg .

Ok, Peter... you made it perfectly clear you regard that definition of murder as being a lie. That's your own opinion and you are welcome to it. It's also clear I disagree with your stated opinion. I think it's a practical working definition of murder as well as prescribing a proper response to it.. Greg

Now that would all depend on What the Authority is, Wolf. Those words are either true or a lie. Since your no comment is such a cowardly evasion worthy of a secular liberal, I'll ask you directly. Which are they? True or lie? Or are you just like Bob, and you don't know why murder is wrong either? Greg

So you disagree that's murder, Wolf. Fine with me. That's your opinion. Greg

That's not murder, Brant... that's justice. "But if he struck his victim down intentionally with an iron object so that he died, he is a murderer; the murderer shall certainly be put to death. If he struck his victim down intentionally with a stone in hand, which may cause a person to die, and he died, he is a murderer; the murderer shall certainly be put to death. Or if he struck his victim down intentionally with a wooden object in hand, which may cause a person to die, and he died, he is a murderer; the murderer shall certainly be put to death. The blood avenger shall himself put the murderer to death; he shall put him to death when he meets him. But if he pushed his victim out of hatred or threw something at him with malicious intent, and he died, or if, in enmity, he struck the victim down with his hand, and he died, the one that struck the victim shall certainly be put to death; he is a murderer. The blood avenger shall put the murderer to death when he meets him... ...If anyone kills a person intentionally, the murderer shall be put to death on the testimony of two or more witnesses; but no one shall be put to death on the testimony of only one witness." Greg

The ability to choose as well as the ability to be aware of what we choose and it's just and deserved consequences is what allows us to know we are accountable to the objective reality of a moral code of behavior we did not create. Our actions can only either agree or disagree with that objective moral reality... but they can never change that objective moral reality. What's morally right will always be what's morally right. What's morally wrong will always be what's morally wrong.... ...and each of us chooses either to agree... or to disagree with It. And if you or anyone else here is wondering why I'm so down on Bob, the reason is he made the wrong choice. I have no respect for people who make wrong choices. America is basically a decent nation because is was originally founded on Judeo Christian moral law... and Bob only behaves because his government tells him it's legal... not because he knows what's right or wrong. This behavior is only possible for individuals who have chosen to avoid self awareness. If Bob was in WWII Germany, he'd be gassing Jews because his government told him it was legal. If he was in an Islamic terrorist country, he'd be cutting heads off of infidels because Sharia law told him it was legal. And if he was in a cannibal tribe, he'd be eating someone else's brains. Sad to say Bob's parents mindfucked him, and he never grew out of it to become self aware and morally self reflective adult. Instead he embraced the mindfuck, and is actually proud of it. Liberal governments love people like Bob who choose to not to be self aware, because they make such excellent bureaucratic employees. The amoral secular liberal education system in America has only one purpose... to produce amoral secularists like Bob who will serve the State by doing whatever they're told... ... as long as the State tells them it's legal. Greg .

You have just succinctly described the reason Bob doesn't know why murder is wrong. Nature can only be is... whereas ought pertains solely to man. Greg

Anthony, I'm in awe of your ability at defining this issue. With the rise of the secular liberal political religion of "nonjudgemental" amoral determinism, of which Bob is among the most ardent of sycophants, comes the government's codification of the abdication of personal moral responsibility, and it's replacement with social engineering. Crime becomes just another disease to be treated with therapy and drugs. Criminals become innocent patients, innocent victims who had nothing to do with what they became and who are in need of government rehab counseling and healthcare. In California, illegal alien felons are a politically protected class. Greg

I won't haggle over the numbers, Brant. But yes, California ranks as the world's sixth largest economy. 1. United States 2. China 3. Japan 4. Germany 5. Great Britain 6. California Every time the government here raises taxes dedicated to a specific purpose like in this situation, road repairs, the revenues get siphoned off to other areas like obscenely lavish liberal democrat public union parasite pensions and other liberal democrat transfer of wealth benefits programs. Then the complaint arises again that there is not enough money to repair the roads and that more money is needed to fund the repairs. With a liberal democrat Governor and liberal democrat majorities in both the State Senate and Assembly... ...there exists no advocate for the taxpayer when liberal democrat benefits recipient parasites and liberal democrat public union employee parasites dominate state and local elections. Greg

We'll just have to agree to disagree on that one, Brant. This latest California gas tax increase has no expiration date and will generate $5,200,000,000 MORE revenue per year in perpetuity. Also it will add even more to those billions every year because it's indexed to the inflation rate. $5.2 billion is a lot of screwing. But it will affect others a lot more than it could ever effect me. I'm protected because as a producer, I simply raise my rates fo cover the increase material transportation costs just like every other business does when their taxes increase. The cost of government built into every product and service makes everything cost more. Greg

(shrug...) Big deal. So did I. In Vietnam. Bob is the end product of government education... an amoral leech whose dependence makes his liberal government bureaucracy larger. Greg

The only accomplice to your own destruction is you, Bob. You're a government parasite. Greg

Peter, I was happy to donate money to Trump's election campaign and if he runs again I'll do it again. I don't live in a vacuum. I am actively involved in working to improve my local community which is within my personal sphere of influence and personal responsibility. My point that there is no such thing as a collective political solution, because the majority of people living in the US are unproductive government parasites. They are responsible for creating the huge government bureaucracy in their own image. I can't change how other people have already chosen to live. I can only choose how I live, and I followed the Galt's Gulch model. Living by Galt's Gulch ethical values protects me from the government created by others. There are only individual personal solutions, and I have made my own choice to be a valuable asset to my community. Greg

I completely agree with your qualifier, Brant. However, besides my vote I'm completely powerless to implement government public policy. I did nothing to create the bloated bureaucracy which exists today. I am not responsible for what the government is now. It does not represent the values by which I live. It does not represent me. But that's ok, because I don't need the government to represent me or my values. What I have discovered is that to the extent that I don't need the government in my life... ...not government education, not government debt relief, not government grants, not government loans, not government funding, not government benefits, not government employment, not government indemnification, not government healthcare... ...to that exact same extent it leaves me alone to enjoy my life. Here's an example: The liberal Democrat Governor, liberal Democrat State Senate, and the liberal Democrat State Assembly just raised the gasoline tax by 12 cents a gallon. This will cause inflation because gasoline or diesel is needed to transport and deliver most every product or service. They pegged the tax to the inflation it causes so that it can feed upon itself in a viscious cycle. With the latest hike, the total state tax federal tax and sales tax and cap and trade fee on California gas is $1.12 per gallon. Right now regular is $2.75. So the gas is $1.63 and the tax is $1.12. Now, I have absolutely no power to control either the price of gasoline or the cost of the taxes on it... however, I do have the power to control my response to it. So this is what I have done. I established my business in our local town so that I don't need to be driving all over Los Angeles. We have a 40 mpg car. My work truck averages 25 mpg even fully loaded with tools and materials, and I use a 70 mpg motorcycle and a 100+ mpg scooter for grocery shopping, banking, and running errands. So we need to use very little gas. This is how to deal with situations over which I have no control. I creatively adapt so as not to become a helpless victim of the world around me. Greg

See what I mean, Anthony? Bob is an amoral secularist so he is completely blind to values because he has none. For him there is only the letter of the law as its own end, serving nothing greater than his government. Greg

Sure they can, Brant. Where I live has been declared a sanctuary city by the liberal democrat government, and the border has been wide open for decades. The freedom of America allows anyone to live here regardless of their values. This explains why the government is so huge. It needs to be gigantic in order to give free stuff to the parasitic majority who don't live by American values. Greg

America is an exceptional nation in that becoming one is not a matter of genetic bloodline, but is rather a conscious choice. Anyone can come here and live by American values regardless of where they are born.. Because of his liberal entitlement values, Bob will never understand nor appreciate that being an American means living by American values. Greg

Bob, if the majority of people living in America lived by American values, the government would be very small and well within its Constitutional limitations... ...but it isn't... ...and you're one of the reasons the government is so huge. Just like the liberal parasites, you also believe that being an American is an unearned entitlement and not an earned merit. Needing a huge bureaucracy to take care of you is not an American value Greg

While what you said holds true for Americans... ...most of the people living in the US aren't Americans. Want proof? The size of government itself is proof. Someone needed to create a huge bureaucracy to take care of them... but it wasn't the Americans. Greg

I'd never be your client, Wolf, because you'll never see me in court unless I'm serving jury duty. There's always plenty of your own kind who you can get to be your clients. I don't do business with people who don't share my values. That's the best way I know to never get entangled in the legal system. It's worked like a charm for all of my life. Greg

Yes. Just because it happens in a court of law doesn't always mean it's just. To enjoy natural law only requires living a life deserving of it. Greg

Secular relativistic Europe has no moral culture with which to counter Islamic Sharia values... ...and this is why Europe is being assimilated. Greg

This is what makes amoral secularist legalistic wards of the state like Bob so creepy. They're the ones who gassed Jews because their government told them it was legal to do it... ...and all because they haven't the foggiest notion why murder is wrong. Greg

Prisoners choose not to see the bars... ...because they were forged by their own hand. Greg