Cathy

I am sorry PDF if I missed understood...please except my apologies no hard feelings ok? I'm just having a hard time with all this, so please be patient with me. ~Cathy~ sorry...

Brant thank you so much! Who is PDF and why does he care what we talk about? I will email you my address, I would love to have it!!!! You all will never know how much you all have helped me remember. One thing I truly wish you all would have Known "Ayn Rand" as aunt Alice! You all see her as this independent thinker with strong views, I seen her as a flumpy (if that is a word) disorganized, rattled, sweet, kind, excited woman. If that all makes sense to you. I've seen some of her early interviews today, and in them she seem kind of a dictator. Well, just like Michael said...he wears two hats, That must have been Aunt Alice to...and that's ok. Brant I truly appreciate your gift, and the sentiment you have for my uncle...sincerely thank you. ~Cathy~

PFD, if you are not interested in these post, then why are you here? I don't know about the others, but I don't care if you think this post should matter or not, your opinion does not matter to me!

Ellen, Elizabeth was the youngest of the O'Connor children born to Mary (Minnie and Dennis O'Connor). We called her aunt Bess...and you got it...I remember that Ellen is Aunt Bess's daughter! It wasn't Aunt Agnes's grandchild it was another niece. I remember now that we were jealous of her...if my aunt loved her more.I Didn't remember that until you said Elizabeth, thank you. Is she still living??? I think I better start writing down all these memories, I don't want to lose them again. Ellen couldn't be that much older than us...I don't think. She could still be alive. We left my father's home in early 71, it was way before that was the last time I seen Uncle Frank and Aunt Alice. I believe the last time was in 69. I also now believe the conversation between my father and Aunt Agnes was in 69/70 because we were not in my father's house most of the year of 71. Ellen, I just remembered that Denny Donahue (one of the other set of twins) is the last remaining cousin's I have...he was Ellen's brother and he is well up in his 70's. The twin boy's Denny and Danny were the youngest of Aunt Bess's children:( ~Cathy~

Michael, I am not sure if my grandfather's house is still there or not. Last time I looked for it, I thought it was an empty field. Conny still lives in Lorain County and I am going to see of she will go by and see. Ellen, I don't know if she wore a jacket over the top. Do you really think a child of three could remember a prayer in Russian? I don't know, but maybe...I do remember some events as young as three, like my father still living in the house with my mother, among others. But what if they just didn't tell anyone about the visits? James Valliant believes they were protect us...she had several death threat during her years as an activist. Neil, they could have spent the night...I don't remember them doing that, but they could have and I just turned the next day into another trip. We didn't have people often ...really if ever at my father's house...only family. So when any of the family came it, it was exciting. The only other family members that I can remember that came was my cousin charlotte from my mother's side, with her baby and husband. They stayed only an hour because my step mother made them feel uncomfortable so they would leave. Jonathan...he wasn't a very good painter...lol. Does it say anywhere where he would do magic tricks...he was good at that. ~Cathy~

The house isn't there anymore. My grandmother died at St Joseph, which is still a hospital today in Lorain. That is the house the smaller children almost burnt down, and that's where they lived when the state took my father and all his sibling's to the orphanage. Thank you Michael. ~Cathy~

Ginny, is there away you can post that article from the morning journal on here?

Yes! Ellen was Aunt Agnes's favorite grand daughter...But I can't remember who was which one of my cousin's was her mother. Aunt Agnes would talk about Ellen all the time! Is she still alive????

Thank you Jonathan, do you know were his paintings are? He said it was a hobby he was doing...why are they of interest now? Don't tell me he became a famous painter...did he? Some I think are good...but some are weird lol. Can you tell me more about them? I love the one he painted of Aunt Alice! There is so much more I want to tell everyone about them...I miss them all so much. I know they lied but I think they may have did it for our safety, Reminds me about My mother adopted my older sister eighteen years before we were born, she didn't find out that she was adopted until she was twenty five. When she found out, she hit the roof, and didn't speak to my mother for years and years, which broke my mother's heart. It wasn't until my mother had gotten sick before she came back around. What I thought about her at the time even tho I was young was...what a brat, at least she was adopted by my mom. It isn't until this very moment that I completely understand how she felt. I need to call her...

Thank you Ginny, So, she was famous before we were born????? How can anyone keep that a secrete from me and my sister for that long...and why? You all have been so helpful and thank you so much. They are all probably laughing in heaven...the O'Connor's best kept secret! Except for Aunt Alice and Uncle Frank, because I do not know where Atheist go. Thank you Ginny ~Cathy~ p.s. my uncle was handsome wasn't he?

WOW! Michael, thank you. I called my husband in to view it for the first time with me. I could tell he (Uncle Frank) was nervous and a bit uncomfortable. None of the O'Connor's like attention on them, it made them feel self conscience and believe it or not I could tell by his movements that's exactly how he felt. Its weird to see him walking around, instead of walking around in my memories, or in still pictures. This has been amazing for me, you and Stephen has made me very happy today, thank you both so much! ~Cathy~

Thank you again Stephen, In Jan. of 1959, we were a little over a year old. I thought she was unknown until she wrote Atlas Shrugged. I have a lot to learn. But one thing, her eyes never have changed. From what I just saw of that first interview in 1959, I know why my father never told us. Her beliefs and views would have been outrageous in the O'Connor household. I am a little taken back by her black and white attitude...she never came across that way to me...but of course I was young, and nobody would ever have a conversation of that kind in my father's house. I see on the link there are more interviews...I will watch them little by litter so they can sink in on what she is saying. We called her kooky Aunt Alice, and I always thought it was her accent that they thought of her that way, but I beginning to lean toward it was her views. Thanks again. p.s. do you have anything on my uncle? ~Cathy~

OMGOSH! No, I never seen this before. yes, yes, her voice is the same...and do you see how her eyes bounce around, that's exactly how I remember. The only things is, her dress made her look slightly slimmer than what I remember. The portrait of my uncle must be from earlier years...I remember him being a little thicker than that. But all in all I recognized him. Do you have anymore???? I only seen the interview on Donahue...and that's where I made the connection of Aunt Alice and Ayn Rand. But by that interview she had aged by then. The interview on Carson is how I remember her...LOL!!!!! Thank you for sharing that with me...I am not good at computers! All I can say is WOW!!!! LOL!!!!! :smile:

Jonathan, thank you, I will take that into consideration from now on. Neil, They only other explanation I can come up with is, they spent a couple of nights visiting. I don't remember them spending the night, doesn't mean they didn't. I remember them so far six times...if they spent the night, that would mean three visits, lets say. I just remember days...different clothes, different magic trick so on, and I may have confused that with different times of visiting. Do you understand what I am trying to say. I am going back along way. I really didn't mean to start all this fuss. ~Cathy~

LOL...that's funny Michael! Ellen, no I never meet them, MiMi & Dockey). Aunt Agnes told me a lot about them tho. One of Aunt Agnes's favorite grand child was named Ellen...but I don't remember which daughter had her. But we were Aunt Agnes's favorite nieces. I know they ALL knew about us (me and Conny). I just don't know why we were a big secret(unless they didn't want the abuse to come out). Ok Michael, I will write James. I just don't want to be overloaded with anymore until I sort through what is in my head now. What book are you talking about where they were pro Frank. I ordered the book "Letter's by Ayn Rand" (I think that's the title) and it should be here any day. But to tell you the truth...I really don't want to cry anymore. My sister told me, you better make sure you want to open this can of worms Cathy...you might just regret it...I hope I don't. ~Cathy~

I just read your comment Neil, thank you...I don't think I am going to write James Valiant just yet. I don't know who to trust. Michael help...

Thank you Michael and KacyRay, it is a relief to know you believe who I am. Neil...do you believe me now? These last six months has been very hard. Sorting out memories, sorting out lies and then having to defend who I am...whew! But the books doesn't have it all right. I don't know why MiMi said that the O'Connor didn't like Aunt Alice because she was a foreigner. It was true that they didn't like how she came acrossed. Being a quiet family and NEVER outspoken, these were the qualities in Aunt Alice that the family didn't like, especially her being a woman. But that is what I loved about her! But the biggest reason the family didn't care for her was because she was Jewish. I don't know why MiMi didn't say that. Unless out of respect for our family, which growing up was a big deal. But I also understand MiMi to. My father died in 1980, I was about twenty one and I went to his funeral. I was very nervous through the whole thing, because I had converted over from Catholic to Pentecostal, and I just knew my father was rolling over in his grave! So I guess what is instilled in you as a child stays with you forever. I try to talk to my sister about all this and she doesn't want to hear about it, (at least the years spent with our father), she does however remember the Russian prayer and the only reason I got that out of her is because we were with our mother at the time. I don't want to upset her with all this, but I would like her to join in...but I don't see that happen in the near future. I have always been the stronger of the two of us (I get that from my mother). I would like to get my memories together, it seems like once I open that part of my mind, it wont turn off. I am fuzzy on my Aunt telling me about Uncle Harry (Nick) I am almost certain she said Nick got the nick name Nick Carter in the service...can anyone help me with that? Also when I said that Aunt Alice said that Uncle Nick was gay, she only thought that. The family said he wasn't. I am trying to put this in context as to not being read more into that than what it was. My Aunt Agnes said that he was like one of those friends that every girl has who is a boy, but more like a girlfriend. That is what he was to Aunt Alice. Aunt Agnes said that I would have a friend like that one day...and I did...and he was far from gay. When I became friends with him...I remember what Aunt Agnes told me, and she was right...like always. Someone asked me if I had pictures...no, I left when I was thirteen with nothing. But a year ago a cousin on my mother's side sent me a picture of my mother and some of us growing up with her. From my father's funeral, someone gave me his bible and watch, and I have those. But the weird thing is, I was digging through some pictures about six months ago and I came across two of my father and us when we lived with him...I don't know how I got them or how long I've had them. Its because of those two pictures I started all of this. Believe it or not, I did love my father. ~Cathy~

Thank you Michael, yes, I am a Christian...I wouldn't have it any other way

If anyone one is still not believing who I am...go to my facebook page under cathy dupler. I put up a marriage license that has my maiden name, a family bible that has my father's name hand written and part of my drivers license under Dupler. ~Cathy~

Neil, the reason I said once a year is...I knew they had visited clearly 6 times. I remembered Clearly (Aunt Alice) once at my mother's house and I assumed the other 5 times were at my father's house since I lived with them for almost 5 yrs...so I assumed about once a year.. Thinking about the visits, I am not for sure on 2 occasions if it was at my father's or mother's house...which would broaden the time between their visits. Clearly I remember 3 visits at my dad's, and one at my mother's. The other 2 I am unsure which parent I was with. I said at the end it was less often. So these visit were from 1963-69...but it could have been up to 1970. Where were they in 66, because we moved to Arizona then, and we could have traveled to visit them. How many times did she visit Agnes in those years? How do I get a hold of Barbara? Or Heller? I want to know if they were ever told about us. Look, I'm trying hard to remember why, where, when and with who...I didn't write down my life history, so I don't have a book to refer back to. I started this by researching my mother's side first...I ran into far less arguments(which were none)...I should have known my father's side wouldn't be that easy. Even if we took from 63-69 that still equals once a year. I am saying from 63, because I was 5 and don't think I could remember at 4...but any things possible. really..what do you want from me Neil? Are you still trying to find out if I'm there niece? Is anyone on this site a judge that I could give written permission to open my juvenile records? I talked to my last foster mother about what she knew of my father. She said that the social worker told her my dad was never allowed to know were we were. I don't understand why...he never hurt us. So the big problem this leads me back to is why, all these why's! So really, why does it matter when they came to visit...is it written about every time she went to the grocery store, or doctor, or the bathroom? ~Cathy~

I'm am so confused. I am trying little by little to sort out all of this...knowing one thing and then finding it was something else. Maybe I should have re-stated the yearly thing. I didn't see them often, but I can clearly remember seeing them 6 times. Some of them times could have been when we were with my mother...since I can't recall what the surrounding was. When Aunt Alice taught us the Russian prayer, it was diffenanlty when we were with our mother. that was up until 66. I know of 3 clear times they were at my dads, I remember where they were sitting how they were sitting, and they always came in cold weather...they always had coats on when they came and Uncle Frank always wore a brown felt brimmed hat with a ribbon around it with a bow on the ribbon, and when he was sitting he would cross his legs and his legs (to me) looked very long. Those times would be between 66 and 71. These visits are very clear to me..because.each time they would visit Uncle Frank had a new magic trick to show us and I remember everyone of them. The picture you have of my Aunt Alice in your heading, her hair is neater than what I remember...her hair wasn't slicked down like that, actually, it always looked a little wind blown. The first memory I have of Aunt Alice (so far) is when she came to mothers and taught us the prayer. That time it must have been warmer weather because she wore a short sleeve pink shell like top. All the other times I seen her she wore dark clothes. The reason this memory stands out is because, we never heard an accent before. She must have liked my mother because my dad and my mom wasn't together anymore by this time. We were getting ready for bed and both my mom and Aunt Alice stood in our bedroom as we were saying our prayers...I knew she was leaving after they put us to bed. She sat down on my bed and said Do you want to hear a prayer in Russian? She said that was a prayer her mother taught her when she was a little girl our age.That is how we learned the Russian prayer...it was a prayer...not a lullaby. That so far is my first memory of her. As I look back, I don't remember her wearing necklaces or ear rings. I am not sure about rings. I know of one time she wore a black or navy blue skirt white blouse with black or navy blue jacket over the blouse, black small heeled shoes. She wore a pin on that jacket. She had one side of her hair bobby pinned back, the other side came down along her face. Her hair was always the same length every time I saw her which was short. I don't know why they didn't tell anyone of these trips, or they just didn't tell Barbara. I don't know why they listed my father' s nick name, Bill instead of John. I'm not going to any other sites...but I don't know why I would be banned. I knew she wrote books, I knew Uncle Frank painted and my dad played poker..to me it was just something they did. Then I find out she was an author, then it just kept getting bigger until someone said she was the philosopher of the century. It just kept getting bigger all at once. So when I sarcastically said Something about that...someone said there maybe more implications to that statement. This is what I meant...she had no problem telling people how to live, had no problem teaching people how to live, and had no problem telling how our government should be ran ...but couldn't voice anything when it came to us. She wanted to clean up everyone and everything else except what was right in front of her. ~Cathy~

Brant, why didn't she just divorce Uncle Frank? He deserve better than that! Why did he stay??? Was being with someone better than being alone? I know it wasn't money, Aunt Agnes had money and she would have taken care of him, plus he could have gotten alimony. It just seems like over the years he was a beaten man and just gave up...and it is so sad to me that he lived through all that. I can understand why my father was so angry...and that's the only thing I understand about the O'Connor's. ~Cathy~

KacyRay, you were one of my doubters weren't you? Do you believe me now? I think I've gotten over the first hurdle on everyone knowing who I am and not a so called sock puppet, or a so called troll. Now I have to sort out all this memories, that now apparently keep flooding back into my mind and can't stop. I suppressed so much...its unbelievable! But I am not going to say anymore about what I remember until I get them straight in my head. Some are fuzzy and I can't remember the years of when things happened, and I don't want the critics telling me it wasn't so. So until then, I stand firm on what I have already said...it happened and it is what it is regardless of what anyone thinks. I don't want to come away with those impressions of my uncle, because that is not the person I knew, but then again, neither was Aunt Alice. ~Cathy~

Ellen, I want to thank you from the bottom of my heart. You have stood up for me countless of times. Nobody but me know how hard this is, but you and Michael come close. I already came this far, and I'm not going to suppress anymore memories...I know what I know and no matter what these other people say (Neil for one) can kiss my ass! Thank you Ellen. ~Cathy~

Jerry, it was all a lie. Really, how can one person be Aunt Alice, who put on this act that she was almost motherly, but had an abortion, who would look lovingly at my uncle, but had an affair, who taught us a Russian prayer, but was Atheist, who didn't tell us who she really was, lie of ommision...an then be this outspoken activist woman Ayn Rand???? It was all a lie! I don't have any reason to lie...she did! ~Cathy~