Cathy

I didn't say she was evil...I think you had to believe her way or you would pay hell for it. I think Uncle Frank had to go along with her and if he disagreed he had to keep his mouth shut to keep the peace. I see things differently now...I'm not a young girl anymore and am remembering more things. I think she was brilliant...really. But I also think a person couldn't have their own views that were against her views and talk about it. I am sure she loved him...but not more than she loved herself. ~Cathy~

This site was started with Ayn Rand's philosophy in mind. I would like to know why so may people still follow her today. I have been reading some of her beliefs, and so far I don't agree. I know I am only in the beginning and there is much, much more, but just the simplest points I just don't believe in. She said if there was only enough food to feed your husband...you wouldn't give the food to the neighbors husband...had to laugh about that one...I think if his name was Branden she would! She said she is Atheist, and when asked, where will she go when she dies...she said she wont die but the world will die...please explain that one. I believe she had a great mind, and convinced everyone else she did to, and when I get further into her philosophy I may agree on some of her views...but as of now these two things bothered me. As I look back now, and remembering the Aunt Alice I knew, she sucked the life out of Uncle Frank...he didn't stand a chance...I don't think anybody else did either.

Neil is ok...I can handle him ;)

Happy Birthday Ginny! ~Cathy~

Happy Birthday Miss Barbra! ~Cathy~

I just watched the first movie I had ever seen about my aunt and uncle...Sense of life. I'm happy I waited to watch it. I seen a picture of my dad and my aunts and uncles when they were little before my grandmother died...it was awesome! I think my sister and I take mostly after the O'Connor side than my mothers...at least the eyes and cheek bones. Uncle Frank looked like my father when he was younger, more so than older. I cried in the movie where uncle Frank died...I guess all along I thought it was all kind of a dream that I was remembering and they were still out there somewhere. My husband bought me the movie for Mother's Day, I'm happy he didn't rent it, I would have a terrible time returning it. ~Cathy~

I heard the conversation about the affair, and knew what that meant. I ask my Aunt Agnes about it. I was 11 or 12...I thought I was 13, but I wasn't in my father's house long after I turned 13. I thought they were going to get a divorce. She said that Aunt Alice loves Uncle Frank with all her heart. She said that Aunt Alice was looking to be young again and excitement. She did not tell me Aunt Alice was dissatisfied with Uncle Frank. She did say he couldn't give her variety but she was joking, because she laughed after she said it. She said the affair had nothing to do with love but with sex. She said some people think that love and sex are 2 different things. Uncle Frank was passive and they were together a long time and Aunt Alice got bored. Aunt Agnes is the one who taught us about sex and where babies came from, and taught us to bake pies and cookies. We didn't have anyone else. ~Cathy~

I didn't hear about the car, just the coat. Aunt Agnes was telling my dad. I don't know what year...the argument happened a long time before they had the conversation. My Aunt Agnes was saying to my dad that Aunt Alice expects everyone to say what they mean and mean what they say...but it didn't apply to Aunt Alice. My aunt brought up the coat that Aunt Alice promise one of her cousins, that started the whole argument. But it wasn't the cousin who didn't want anything to do with Aunt Alice, it was Aunt Alice who cut ties with the cousin. I just remember that it didn't seem right that Aunt Alice would have been mad about it cause she promised her the coat. If I remember right (I maybe wrong) but I think Aunt Alice didn't go to the funeral because that cousin would have been there. I remember they were saying it would have been something if Aunt Alice would have went wearing that coat. I think I'm remembering that right. ~Cathy~

Aunt Agnes was in contact with Aunt Alice...I just heard the gossip about it

I don't know which cousin...but it was Aunt Alice's cousin. and it was Aunt Agnes who told me. It turned into a big argument and they stopped talking. ~Cathy~

I think he felt like a nobody (no face) a dummy, a puppet with his drum, with Ayn looking on. He feels all alone on the edge of a cliff in the vast openness...nowhere to go. He's trying to juggle all the fragileness of his life around him, knowing he can't. He felt alone and helpless. At least that's what I think the painting means. ~Cathy~

I'm sure they did...but I don't remember them right now. ~Cathy~

Ellen, here's what I found out... Miriam agnes papurt Sutton 1918-1985 Marna m papurt wolfe 1927-1995 I still cant find out anything about Margret, but I vaguely remember something about her (I could be wrong) but that she died at eighteen in some kind of explosion. I don't know if my memory is right on this. I am still trying to find anything out about her. ~Cathy~

Well, Heller gives quotes from interviews with Marna in 2004 and 2006, and from correspondence with her in 2005, and Heller wasn't working on her book in 1995, so I think the death date for Marna has to be wrong. Where did you find it? Doing re-calculating with the information given in Heller's text about Marna, I'm now figuring Marna's birth year as 1927 or possibly 1926, depending on what time of year. Ellen I have been working with Tom Nelson, he is retired from the social security administration...MiMi died in 85 and Marna died in 95. I can give you his e-mail address if you would like. ~Cathy~

Ellen, Marna was already died by 04/05 she died in 1995. It must have been Connie. ~Cathy~

I just read some of Heller's book. It states in there ...in middle age she (Rand) could still amaze her friends by correcting a mistake recitation of a well known Russian Orthodox prayer. I wonder if this was the prayer she taught me and my sister. Also it seems to me out of the Brandan's and O'Connor's the good ones was Barbra and Uncle Frank. Some people may not like what I have to say but...I think all three of them were Ayn Rand's victims...if the book is correct. Aunt Alice and Ayn Rand are two different people to me...I have not connected the two together...and in a way I hope I don't. ~Cathy~

I have no idea. Did they mention anything about Margaret? I can not for the life of me remember her. I don't remember any visits from her, or Aunt Agnes saying much about her. Did she die young? Now I am also wondering if the reason my dad said he wasn't fond of Aunt Alice because she was Jewish, and didn't want me to know she was Atheist. Isn't a biography suppose to be about her whole life, or just parts they want people to know? BTW, it must have been Donahue that triggered the memory, if you didn't say Elizabeth. Whatever I'm glad it did lol. Does anyone on hear talk to Barbra? If she was Aunt Alice's friend...don't you think she would know about the family? Did Connie ever say that my grandparents ever found out about the abortion? ~Cathy~ sorry so many questions Nothing about Margaret, except her name listed among Dennis's children in Barbara's book. Not even that in Heller's. Maybe she died young. She'd have to be more than a hundred if she's still alive, since she was older than your dad, who you say was born in 1902. Wouldn't it be something if the reason there's no mention of her is because she ran away from home and became an adventuress? Your grandmother died when Frank was about fifteen. Do you mean a step-grandma? I'm sorry. I misremembered which of the Papurt girls told Heller about the abortion. It was Mimi not Connie. EDIT : SORRY AGAIN. Eye troubles don't help. Looks like it was MARNA - MW - not MIMI - MS - who was being interviewed and told Heller of the abortion. That also makes sense of the being a toddler, although it would probably date the abortion as the late 20s. The references in Heller's book are slight: The endnotes give these references: For the phrase "it wouldn't fit with Ayn," a taped interview with Mimi conducted by Barbara February 18, 1983. For the decision to have an abortion, Heller says: SCRATCH the part about Heller's missaddition. Heller's addition can't be right about when Mimi was a toddler, not if Mimi was 20 in 1939, as Barbara says, but then Barbara has something off too, since she says Mimi was 16 at her grandfather's funeral. But if Mimi was 20 in 1939, then she couldn't have been a toddler when the abortion happened, since that would place the abortion before Rand even came to America. Something is off somewhere. The only other reference to the abortion is in a passage pertaining to Ayn's and Frank's years in California on the ranch (1944-1951). I'll quote a two-paragraph part, since this also has material about Ayn's relationship with Marna. The references for the passage are letters from AR to Mimi, and Heller's June 21, 2004, interview of Marna. Ellen Ellen, I found a website with death dates. MiMi died in 1985 and Marna died in 1995. I cant find connie yet or Margaret, But she couldn't have had an interview with them in 2004/2005. ~Cathy~

I remembered something today. After the falling out and Aunt Agnes left, me and my sister ran away every chance we could. We were so dumb thinking we wouldn't get caught and the cops always found us. My step mother would dress us alike and it wouldn't have been hard for the cops to see two girls who looked alike and dressed alike. In between the times of running away, letters would come to the house with clerk of courts written on the envelopes address to John O'Connor in care of Conny and Cathy O'Connor. We never knew what those envelopes contained and where never told. What if my aunts and uncle got a hold of the courts? What if they (aunts and Uncle) pushed my dad into doing something, and that's why he dropped us off at the detention home? What if my aunts and uncle did try to find us and found out we were wards of the state and thought we were adopted out? If that were the case, then the family would not have mentioned us...I don't think. I am trying to look at all what if's. BTW, I just found out a few years back that my mother was six months pregnant with us when her and my father got married. Both sides were full of secretes. ~Cathy~

Neil, when u wrote that Aunt Alice had a falling out with her cousin because she didn't go to a funeral, and I said, she said that as an excuse. The falling out was really over a coat. Aunt Alice promised her cousin a certain coat and didn't give it to her. That's what the real argument was over. ~Cathy~

Again, different books written by different people. Heller's and Barbara's respective pictures of Ayn's relationship with Frank's family have some divergences of detail. Nonetheless, Heller does not mention anything about trips to Ohio except for the one when your grandfather died, so I guess that she didn't hear anything about those from Marna or Connie. Looks like Mimi was already dead when Heller started interviewing. Agnes was dead well before Heller started interviewing. Agnes might have been already ill - at any rate she was at least 80 and didn't live much longer - when Barbara started interviewing. Do you know what Agnes died of? Ellen No, I don't. I didn't find out the year she died until recently. ~Cathy~

EllenMy Aunt Agnes said that thank God he was in silent films and good looking or he wouldn't have a job at all in that industry! ~Cathy~Thank you Ellen...good night

EllenMy Aunt Agnes said that thank God he was in silent films and good looking or he wouldn't have a job at all in that industry! ~Cathy~

she wouldn't dare lol...I think that's why they got a long so well!Well, that's something I've been wondering about, Alice and Agnes. Agnes sounds to me like someone Ayn/Alice would have liked. Barbara said that Ayn was not interested in Frank's family, but I wonder if it's that Barbara wasn't and Ayn was more interested than Barbara realized. Ellen But part of the books states they enjoyed her at family dinners...how does that happen if she Kept Uncle Frank away from the family?hmmm, maybe Aunt Alice didn't want Barbra to know the O'Connor family.they might have converted her lol.