Cathy

she wouldn't dare lol...I think that's why they got a long so well!Well, that's something I've been wondering about, Alice and Agnes. Agnes sounds to me like someone Ayn/Alice would have liked. Barbara said that Ayn was not interested in Frank's family, but I wonder if it's that Barbara wasn't and Ayn was more interested than Barbara realized. Ellen But part of the books states they enjoyed her at family dinners...how does that happen if she Kept Uncle Frank away from the family?hmmm, maybe Aunt Alice didn't want Barbra to know the O'Connor family.

she wouldn't dare lol...I think that's why they got a long so well!Well, that's something I've been wondering about, Alice and Agnes. Agnes sounds to me like someone Ayn/Alice would have liked. Barbara said that Ayn was not interested in Frank's family, but I wonder if it's that Barbara wasn't and Ayn was more interested than Barbara realized. Ellen But part of the books states they enjoyed her at family dinners...how does that happen if she Kept Uncle Frank away from the family?

Two different people. Harry Binswanger wrote age six. There are discrepancies between the reports, the usual with people remembering things they were told. Ellen I see. My aunt told me he dodged the draft...do you know if they ever caught up to him and made him serve? ~Cathy~

after his mother's death, he had dropped out of his Catholic high school and become a lifelong atheist Ellen, why did she write this...I thought she wrote he was six when he went to a public school?

she wouldn't dare lol...I think that's why they got a long so well!

I got more than a photo of the sketch posted, thanks to help from my husband, who took the pictures, and Jonathan, a wiz at such procedures, who posted them for me on another thread. I'll copy them here....... The first one is photographed from Heller's book. Champagne was the author; Giffey was the illustrator. Uncle Frank and my dad's stature was like that. They all resembled each other anyway.

EllenThank you!

According to a news item cited on pg. 441 of Heller's book, your grandmother died July 19, 1911. Frank was born September 22, 1987, so he'd have been 13 and 1/2. The pg. reference to 100 Voices is from Harry Binswanger's interview: Barbara writes: Barbara describes Frank as "fifteen-year-old" when his mother died. Heller says: The endnote reference for Frank's dropping out of school says: No documentation is given for this (and was he going to summer school, that he dropped out in the summer?). Ellen Thank you Ellen...Yes, Frank was 13 because my father was almost 7 when my grandmother died. They all went to a catholic school except Aunt Agnes, she was kicked out for mooning the nun. They were strict Catholics as adults to. Aunt Agnes attended mass with me before. I do believe Uncle Frank did drop out of school in 1911 or there after. My father dropped out to I think he was in 6th grade. As I told you when my grandmother died my grandfather was a mess. The kids took care of themselves, I think all of them dropped out of school one by one. But they didn't drop out of church. I really feel deep down that Uncle Frank wasn't Atheist, I think he was a husband keeping his wife happy. Or I'm just in denial of it...I hope not. Thank you Ellen ~Cathy~

Could somebody please put on here (page 598, 100 voices) for me? Because someone said that Uncle Frank dropped out of Catholic school at a young age and enrolled himself in a public school because he was anti-religious. Does it say how old he was? My grandmother died when he was twelve, there was no way before then that my grandparents would have allowed that. Who said that? ~Cathy~

Thank you Jerry. ~Cathy~

ok Neil, thank you...but we really don't know what's in there...there could be a bombshell, otherwise why keep it secret...ugh...all these secrets! ~Cathy~

Re "the only living relative" of Frank's, does that mean you know that Marna and Connie are dead? And I think you mentioned a 70 or so male cousin who's still alive. As to Peikoff's coming on here and reading stuff, no way, Cathy. For one thing, Peikoff's sight is so bad, he needs large magnification to read at all. For another, a site such as this is beneath notice to Peikoff. Your e-mailing him doesn't mean he saw or was even told about the email. He must have someone screen his e-mail except maybe on private addresses which only a few know. Unless you've received some kind of response from someone at ARI, I wouldn't be sure anyone there knows of you. The archives are a privately owned resource, entrance to which is by permission. -- I'm working on compiling an interview list for Marc. It's taking awhile, speaking of difficulty reading, and I have stuff scheduled for the next couple days, so the project will take longer than I'd anticipated. Meanwhile, I found a couple references to your uncle Nick having bouts with TB as well as the chronic lung problems resulting from his being gassed in the war. Ellen Yes, I like a lot of people on here. For smart people you guys are pretty nice to me I am not trying to judge anyone. I've had hard battles in my life, drug use was one of them. I just had to turn my life around and in 1983 I was born again. Believe me, I have no rights to point fingers. Those things are just things I personally don't believe in. But I do believe in choice. Adultery, is not an accident. Atheism I do not know much about. Do they believe in evolution(sp?)then where do cows come from? The bible is a constant. I know sometimes its hard to believe in God, but I trust him. Peikoff has to live with himself...I wonder how he likes it. Thank you Jenny. Ellen, I m sorry got Denny confused with my mother's side. Denny was a lawyer and he is I believe seventy eight now. It was his daughter I talked to. She never meet Aunt Agnes and was excited that I grew up with her. Her grandmother (my aunt) told her stories of Aunt Agnes. I will try and find her name for you, I know it, just forgot it but it will come back to me. I am writing things down now, because there is so much coming back to me that I don't want to forget. Sorry about the confusion. ~Cathy~

Thank you Jerry, I have a few days off and I will see what I can do. Where is the library of congress located? ~Cathy~

Cathy, for Atlas Shrugged (1957), Rand chose the dedication TO FRANK O’CONNOR AND NATHANIEL BRANDEN. In the “About the Author” section following the novel’s conclusion, she included: At that time, she was having her romantic relationship with Nathan, in addition to their intellectual relationship. I approve of her front to the public, concealing her precious relationship which the public would condemn and ridicule. Cathy, people here have not wanted to get into a debate with you over your religious faith and your moral views. I don’t want to do that either. I want to let you know, however, that Objectivists are all atheists, they do not regard all abortions as morally wrong, and they do not regard adultery as necessarily wrong. Many who post here are not Objectivists, not in full agreement with the philosophy of Ayn Rand, and some disagree vehemently with Objectivism on some points, though they agree with the points atheism, abortion, adultery. That is, they do not share the traditional moral valence placed on those choices. Additionally, in my own case, I am gay, and I don’t agree with the traditional valence placed on that either. My first lover and I were together 22 years, from when we were both 19 to his death in 1990. My second partner and I have been together for 17 years. Those are accomplishments in unconventional happiness, eyes wide open. I recall my first partner telling a friend once that if he and I thought what we were doing was wrong, we wouldn’t do it. Period. That’s the deal: there are disagreements of moral judgment over such relationships. With The Fountainhead, Rand gave me a vivid vista of the goodness of living by one’s own independent judgment. I still appreciate that gift these 46 years later. I do admire Ayn Rand, your aunt Alice, for some accomplishments in literature and in philosophy. But that is not all. I have some affection for her too, because of her gift. I do not worship her—that is another mentality, where you hear tell Rand was morally perfect, the greatest novelist ever, the greatest philosopher since Aquinas, and so forth. Stephen ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ PS If one looks up “O’Connor, Frank” in the Index of this book (p. 418), there is a lot. Stephen, this was great. Brought back even more memories for me! Aunt Agnes said that Uncle Frank Balanced Aunt Alice...keep her grounded, slowed her down so she could think straight (if that makes sense). She said they were the complete opposites of one another and would feed off each, as I remember her saying. I think he lack the excitement part that maybe she needed. Aunt Agnes said that Aunt Alice said if could blend both men together she would have the perfect man. Uncle Frank and my father, because of the way they carried themselves you would think that everything to them was casual and serious, but they would comment funny things spontaneously, and at times inappropriately that made them witty plus funny, because you wouldn't see it coming or coming from them. Aunt Agnes said when Uncle Frank first meet her,(Aunt Alice) she did most of the talking, and Uncle Frank was blown over by how enthusiastic she was to learn the American way. Almost like she wanted everything now (not material things, but knowledge)that it takes Americans to learn over a lifetime. She writes about what she seen in Uncle Frank, but doesn't say what he seen in her. Aunt Agnes said the Aunt Alice had a personality that if she walked into a room and didn't say a word, her personality so enormous that it would fill the room, just with her presents...I think that's what Uncle Frank seen/felt in her. Thank you Stephen, for putting that on here, I am remember clearly now on my talks with Aunt Agnes as though it was yesterday, she had the softest skin, and was very prim, proper and lady like. But she did have another side to her to, when she had enough, she was very outspoken. When she was in elementary school, she got mad at one of the nuns and mooned her and was kicked out of school. All of them (O'Connors) didn't talk much, so when they did it was something to listen to. As far as my beliefs about abortions, I believe it is a woman choice, I just choose not to. While my children were growing up I use to tell them, do you know why I only had six children, they would ask why, and I would say because I didn't want seven...that left them thinking for a minute. I do not believe in adultery...there has to be something sacred in a marriage, or don't get married. My last husband and I were married fifteen years and he cheated, I divorced him without hesitation, if your a cheat, your a liar...and I hate both. I don't know any Atheists, from the time I was born I was taught about God. When I was thirteen, I really thought there wasn't a God, and by fifteen got into drugs for years...but it was God that brought me out of it. My favorite and last foster mother, who taught me the most is gay. Not only is she gay but is married to a black woman. She was the only one that ever cared about me and I always wished that she would have been my first foster home...things may have been different. The only judgments I have (or try to have) for people is how they treat me. I know I said some hateful things about my aunt and uncle, I still don't know why we were not told, and I may never know why. I am getting over the anger part of it (sometimes)it helps when I remember Aunt Agnes's stories. You all have helped me more than you know... ~Cathy~

Ha ha ha ha ha!

am getting so confused with who is writing. Ellen or Ginny?

Re "the only living relative" of Frank's, does that mean you know that Marna and Connie are dead? And I think you mentioned a 70 or so male cousin who's still alive. As to Peikoff's coming on here and reading stuff, no way, Cathy. For one thing, Peikoff's sight is so bad, he needs large magnification to read at all. For another, a site such as this is beneath notice to Peikoff. Your e-mailing him doesn't mean he saw or was even told about the email. He must have someone screen his e-mail except maybe on private addresses which only a few know. Unless you've received some kind of response from someone at ARI, I wouldn't be sure anyone there knows of you. The archives are a privately owned resource, entrance to which is by permission. -- I'm working on compiling an interview list for Marc. It's taking awhile, speaking of difficulty reading, and I have stuff scheduled for the next couple days, so the project will take longer than I'd anticipated. Meanwhile, I found a couple references to your uncle Nick having bouts with TB as well as the chronic lung problems resulting from his being gassed in the war. Ellen Yes, I like a lot of people on here. For smart people you guys are pretty nice to me I am not trying to judge anyone. I've had hard battles in my life, drug use was one of them. I just had to turn my life around and in 1983 I was born again. Believe me, I have no rights to point fingers. Those things are just things I personally don't believe in. But I do believe in choice. Adultery, is not an accident. Atheism I do not know much about. Do they believe in evolution(sp?)then where do cows come from? The bible is a constant. I know sometimes its hard to believe in God, but I trust him. Peikoff has to live with himself...I wonder how he likes it. Thank you Jenny.

Re "the only living relative" of Frank's, does that mean you know that Marna and Connie are dead? And I think you mentioned a 70 or so male cousin who's still alive. As to Peikoff's coming on here and reading stuff, no way, Cathy. For one thing, Peikoff's sight is so bad, he needs large magnification to read at all. For another, a site such as this is beneath notice to Peikoff. Your e-mailing him doesn't mean he saw or was even told about the email. He must have someone screen his e-mail except maybe on private addresses which only a few know. Unless you've received some kind of response from someone at ARI, I wouldn't be sure anyone there knows of you. The archives are a privately owned resource, entrance to which is by permission. -- I'm working on compiling an interview list for Marc. It's taking awhile, speaking of difficulty reading, and I have stuff scheduled for the next couple days, so the project will take longer than I'd anticipated. Meanwhile, I found a couple references to your uncle Nick having bouts with TB as well as the chronic lung problems resulting from his being gassed in the war. Ellen Hi Ginny, I don't believe Connie or Marna are still alive. Denny, my cousin who is still alive is not totally with it. I talked to his nurse. He is well up there in his 70's. My Aunt Agnes told me Uncle Nick died of tuberculosis...see, my memory is right...except for maybe the dates.

Thank you Ginny. I already tried Peikoff. I wonder if he waited for this day to happen...and now he hides! You would think that anyone who was with my uncle all those years and admired him would want to talk to the only living relative of his, I would. Peikoff isn't even related and I wanted to talk to him about them, because he was with them. He doesn't know what I agree upon on her views and beliefs to disapprove of me, so what is he afraid of? He knows! Does he come on here...do you think he has read this. And if he has, why doesn't he try to disprove me? I am sure by now he's been told, plus I e-mailed him in Feb. Let me ask you something...I hope no one takes this personally, or gets offended, this is just my thoughts... How can anyone worship a person who commits adultery, had an abortion, and who is Atheist? All the things I do not believe in. How much power does she have???? Let me ask you something again...do I have any legal rights to get into that archive???? ~Cathy~ p.s.s. what are these $$$ above our heads for?

Thank you Ginny. I already tried Peikoff. I wonder if he waited for this day to happen...and now he hides! You would think that anyone who was with my uncle all those years and admired him would want to talk to the only living relative of his, I would. Peikoff isn't even related and I wanted to talk to him about them, because he was with them. He doesn't know what I agree upon on her views and beliefs to disapprove of me, so what is he afraid of? He knows! Does he come on here...do you think he has read this. And if he has, why doesn't he try to disprove me? I am sure by now he's been told, plus I e-mailed him in Feb. Let me ask you something...I hope no one takes this personally, or gets offended, this is just my thoughts... How can anyone worship a person who commits adultery, had an abortion, and who is Atheist? All the things I do not believe in. How much power does she have???? Let me ask you something again...do I have any legal rights to get into that archive???? ~Cathy~p.s. they never called her kooky Alice to her face...I believe now it was her views is why they called her that. I thought it was her accent. I am sorry they did that...she accomplished more in life than my dad did...maybe that's why he didn't like her, and used other excuses for his dislike.

Thank you Ginny. I already tried Peikoff. I wonder if he waited for this day to happen...and now he hides! You would think that anyone who was with my uncle all those years and admired him would want to talk to the only living relative of his, I would. Peikoff isn't even related and I wanted to talk to him about them, because he was with them. He doesn't know what I agree upon on her views and beliefs to disapprove of me, so what is he afraid of? He knows! Does he come on here...do you think he has read this. And if he has, why doesn't he try to disprove me? I am sure by now he's been told, plus I e-mailed him in Feb. Let me ask you something...I hope no one takes this personally, or gets offended, this is just my thoughts... How can anyone worship a person who commits adultery, had an abortion, and who is Atheist? All the things I do not believe in. How much power does she have???? Let me ask you something again...do I have any legal rights to get into that archive???? ~Cathy~

Then what are they hiding? Do you think Marc has the something's as Peikoff does in his archives? How is away someone could get in there and see it?

why wont they open it?