Cathy

I have all the documents to prove who I am, If they don't believe what happened to me and my sister, I am sure we could get a judge to open juvenile records and children service's records. I didn't mean to make it unflattering to Aunt Alice, but for Ayn Rand I am, because they are 2 different people to me and it is the ugly truth...

Thank You!

I don't understand what the big deal is if everyone already knew of the abortion and affair. My first book is coming today, so maybe I will start understanding what the big fuss is over. Im not just upset that they left us there with that crazy woman. Im also just as upset that they let us waste away in the foster care system. From 13 to 18 where the hell where they? I got married at 17 to lose the O'Connor name, my sister soon after she turned 18, that's how bitter we entered into adulthood. Maybe (In those days)you couldn't do much about the abuse in a household, But when the state takes over, where is the family then???? I know they didn't talk after the falling out, but what did they do, just forget about us? Aunt Alice had money, she could have gotten a lawyer or something. But yet they took in Peikoof that wasn't even a relative! I am not angry about Piekoff, or maybe I am, I just don't know yet. I just talked to my sister, she reminded me when we were in 3rd grade, we were taken down to the principals office. The teacher Ms Manzo made us pull up our sleeves and pull down our socks while the principal, Mr Marks examined us, then we were sent back to class. we were totally embarrassed because we had known he seen the bruises and welts, that we received the night before, and thought if my step-mother found out we would pay to the death. It was either a day later or two, a man came and took us to Howard Johnsons and bought us ice cream. He was asking us questions, but we were so happy to have ice cream (my step mother never allowed us to have anything like that)that we concentrated on the ice cream more than the questions. But we (me and Conny) both acted like our life was ok, because we were afraid to tell the truth for fear of my step mother finding out. We didn't know the man was from Children Services and was there to help us. So there is a record somewhere. I sure hope their procedures of interviewing children about their abuse have change, because after the interview those children have to go back to the abusers. When you are abused, you don't trust anybody, for all we knew this was a set up from my step mother to make sure we didn't talk. So why didn't my aunts and uncle care enough to find out about us after the falling out? Aunt Alice could have hire a lawyer...or maybe they thought she killed us by then. To me, their view on things were, they saved Peikoff with out much work, and it publicly looked good, to much work for us, to much ugly publicity...so let them fend for their selves. That would have been around 67/68 and according to OL she was well known then...yes I am angry...very! ~Cathy~

Continuing with piecing together who's who, and chronology. Heller says that Dennis (Frank's father, Cathy's grandfather) "died in late December 1938, at the age of seventy-four [...]" (pg. 124). That would make 1864 his birth year. So: Dennis, 1864-1938 Frank was born September 22, 1897 (died November 9, 1979). John (Bill) was born December 29, 1902 (died 1980). So Agnes and Margaret were born, in that order, at dates between June 1898 (allowing nine months after Frank's birth) and March 1902 (allowing nine months before John/Bill's birth). Agnes died in 1983. Figuring that 1901 was the latest she could have been born, she was at minimum 81 when she died. Children not mentioned before: Agnes' child Lee Was Lee a girl or boy? Elizabeth's children Larry and Gil. Do you know anything about them? I haven't found a word about Margaret except her name in the list of children on pg. 84 of Barbara's book. Heller doesn't mention her. Ellen I never met any of Aunt Agnes's children. By the time I moved into my father house her children where grown with families of their own. She talked about them a lot. Lee was her son. She talked About Aunt Bess's children to, and no, I never meet them either. ~Cathy~BTW Aunt Agnes told me her father (my grandfather) was buried Christmas eve. Do you know if I have this right? And if I have Harry (nick) getting his nick name Nick Carter when he was in the service right also. Also Aunt Agnes told my Uncle Nick died from Tuberculosis...anybody know? ~Cathy~

Michael, I have reviewed all of Cathy's posts to this point here and on SOLO and the closest I can get to her supporting your statement is her 89, 104 and 135. Did you get something off her Facebook page? --Brant I couldn't quite understand what she was writing about in 104 Brant, Here's how I understand it, but I might have some things wrong. (And I hope Cathy corrects me if I do.) Cathy has a twin sister, Conny. They were born in 1958 when her parents, John and Pauline, were up in the years. When the twins were very young her parents divorced and her mother later had a stroke. John remarried. Enter the stepmother from hell. (I haven't found her name yet.) Cathy's stepmother made the evil stepmother in Cinderella look like a saint and she constantly beat the twins bad enough to leave bruises on them. Frank was John's brother and Agnes was his sister. Uncle Frank and Aunt Agnes to the twins. When Frank would come around, he obviously brought "kooky Aunt Alice" (Ayn Rand) with him. If I understand correctly, Agnes had started playing a game with the twins of drawing letters (and words?) on their backs. And Rand did it, too, probably when they were visiting at the same time. I imagine she watched Agnes do it and chimed in. Cathy thinks part of the reason they did this was to have an excuse to raise her and her sister's shirts and look at the bruises on their backs without letting them know. Agnes got really pissed about the abuse one night and had a nasty falling out with Cathy's father. Cathy and her sister Conny listened to argument from another room and were happy and hopeful that this would change things for them, like maybe end the beatings. But this was the last time Agnes ever visited. From in between the lines, I gather Cathy and Conny became little hell-raisers on their own. (Sorry, Cathy. I kinda know this culture from growing up in something similar, so I speculate. If I'm wrong, please correct me.) Cathy mentioned several times that she ran away and the police would bring her back. I gather it was more than once. Later, bouncing around foster homes, she ran away several times, too. But before that, her father John got sick with cancer and started thinking of dumping the twins on Pauline, their biological mother. But Pauline had gotten ill with a stroke and had not recovered. Then she died. The girls were 13 and there went that plan out the window. As John was increasingly ill and weak, he finally turned the girls over to foster care. I don't know what happened to the evil stepmother during John's illness. Cathy thinks the world of her aunt Agnes. From what I gather, Agnes was her main source of the family lore while she was young and still living with her father. Now, after all these years, she remembers the drawing on the back games and knows her aunt Alice was aware of the beatings. And it hurts and pisses her off that her aunt stood by and did nothing. Even more so after she learned her aunt was a famous author. As icing on that cake, a promoter of reason, individual rights, etc. I hope I got that right. I didn't get any of this from her Facebook page. That is more devoted to her life and chit-chat and photos, etc., like a normal Facebook page is. Michael On Solo and this site is the first time anyone other than my best friend since I was thirteen knows this much about my life back then. Susan Jane O'Connor was my step mother's name. You've got it right...of course there is much more. Yes I am angry about Aunt Alice...even if she didn't see the bruises, she knew because Aunt Agnes would have told her. My sister called at four this morning...she remembers (and now I do to) at my mother's funeral, someone gave my father a box of pictures of us living with my mother. They were everyday pictures and school pictures...much better years for us. The Monday after the funeral we had to go to school, my step mother made us take out this sloppy bag of garbage. We thought it was weird because my dad always took at the garbage. We went out and open the garbage lid to the trash can, and down at the bottom sat all those pictures. We had to dump that sloppy mess of garbage on our whole life and memories of our mother. It was the first time ever we walked to school in silence. Conny was very upset. Either she's going to back down (she is an O'Connor after all) or I can pull her through all this. I really think it would helps us both. ~Cathy~

Continuing with piecing together who's who, and chronology. Heller says that Dennis (Frank's father, Cathy's grandfather) "died in late December 1938, at the age of seventy-four [...]" (pg. 124). That would make 1864 his birth year. So: Dennis, 1864-1938 Frank was born September 22, 1897 (died November 9, 1979). John (Bill) was born December 29, 1902 (died 1980). So Agnes and Margaret were born, in that order, at dates between June 1898 (allowing nine months after Frank's birth) and March 1902 (allowing nine months before John/Bill's birth). Agnes died in 1983. Figuring that 1901 was the latest she could have been born, she was at minimum 81 when she died. Children not mentioned before: Agnes' child Lee Was Lee a girl or boy? Elizabeth's children Larry and Gil. Do you know anything about them? I haven't found a word about Margaret except her name in the list of children on pg. 84 of Barbara's book. Heller doesn't mention her. Ellen I never met any of Aunt Agnes's children. By the time I moved into my father house her children where grown with families of their own. She talked about them a lot. Lee was her son. She talked About Aunt Bess's children to, and no, I never meet them either. ~Cathy~

You think it is likely that Aunt Alice would tell Cathy about Frank's sexuality and that Cathy's mother would tell her about Rand's alleged abortion? -Neil Parille Neil, it wasn't Aunt Alice...it was Aunt Agnes who told me, And it was Uncle Nick's. Aunt Agnes told me about the abortion to, and she did have one.~Cathy~

Yes, she said that. I've formed quite a liking for your Aunt Agnes from your tale. Agnes sounds like she was a sharp lady. Ellen Then my Aunt Agnes told me the truth! She was my absolute favorite person in the whole world! She taught us little things to. She said when you have company and you have to pee pee, turn on the water first so your company doesn't hear you...thats what ladies do! I miss her terribly! ~Cathy That wasn't why I turned the water on first so the company didn't hear me. --Brant pissing in the sink, BTW, is a male option when I visited my grand parents in D.C. in November 1960 I didn't know where anything was in the apartment and there were no night lights on at night--I woke up around two or three AM and had to go big time--desperately stumbling blindly around, bumping into stuff, I couldn't find the light switch or the bathroom and thought I finally found it until I discovered I was in the kitchen pissing on a chair HA HA HA! gross! LOL

Thank you Michael. I am not good at this yet, just learning. I wrote something, I thought I hit the post and didn't see it and re-wrote it. who knows where it went lol.

I have no idea. Did they mention anything about Margaret? I can not for the life of me remember her. I don't remember any visits from her, or Aunt Agnes saying much about her. Did she die young? Now I am also wondering if the reason my dad said he wasn't fond of Aunt Alice because she was Jewish, and didn't want me to know she was Atheist. Isn't a biography suppose to be about her whole life, or just parts they want people to know? BTW, it must have been Donahue that triggered the memory, if you didn't say Elizabeth. Whatever I'm glad it did lol. Does anyone on hear talk to Barbra? If she was Aunt Alice's friend...don't you think she would know about the family? Did Connie ever say that my grandparents ever found out about the abortion? ~Cathy~ sorry so many questions

Yes, she said that.I've formed quite a liking for your Aunt Agnes from your tale. Agnes sounds like she was a sharp lady. Ellen Then my Aunt Agnes told me the truth! She was my absolute favorite person in the whole world! She taught us little things to. She said when you have company and you have to pee pee, turn on the water first so your company doesn't hear you...thats what ladies do! I miss her terribly! ~Cathy

Did Connie say it was her mom and dad that loaned them the money? Connie would know because she was Aunt Agnes's daughter and if Aunt Agnes told me she would have told her children. I know she had an affair...never was I told the name or how long it went on...until here. ~Cathy~

No Cathy, Brant may be, but "we all" are not smarter than you. Knowing a lot of words is not the same as being smart. In my case it just indicates laziness, I was able to lie around reading a lot instead of doing anything productive. Successfully raising six kids is smart. I only raised two and the smart parent was my husband, not me. The younger one hung around the house until I finally had to sell it.[LOL! That's funny. I would love for all my kids to live with me forever, but I know I wouldn't be doing them justice. I don't know about successfully...I am more proud of some than others, shhhhh. My son Ricky is the most like the O'Connor men. He is 28 still not married and no children...I don't think that will ever happen for him. My daughter Kristen is starting off just like me, two babies 11 months apart and both in diapers and she loves every minute of it, and works full time. It is Kristen who wanted me to find out about my family because of her babies. I have been telling her everything, she said mom, with everything you went through with your step mother, you were a good role model for me and a good mother and now best friend...she made me cry ~Cathy~

I don't think my aunt would lie to me...telling me everything maybe a different story tho. She told me Uncle Harry (Nick) was not gay. Anymore who knows...I could careless if he was or wasn't but in that day and time they would care. Maybe she was protecting him...she was the rescuer of the family. If anyone in my family should have had the fame and fortune, it should have been Aunt Agnes...she was everything. Do you know how to look up old newspaper articles? I believe Eddie's cigar store got busted in late 69/70. whatever date on that I believe it was a year before was the last time I seen them. I could be wrong...it just came back when Neil was talking about his Catholic family. My sister for the first time read all the SOLO post last night...big step for her. She didn't want to talk about it last night or today yet, but she said she is getting memory back...and she is not to happy with me about it. But she is coming around. Maybe between her and me we can make sense of it all. Ellen...didn't you all know about the abortion and affair? ~Cathy~

Michael, thank you once again

Ellen Oh, damn, spoke too soon. The next "Calendar" - February 1969 - says the appearance was canceled. [Ellen, did they already leave before it got cancelled? ~Cathy~ BTW your the one who helped me remember Aunt Bess's family :)/quote]

Do you know how my father made a living, he was a professional poker player...the strict Catholic that he was. He was even going to rig a dice table in our basement and use our hands to get over the rafters to rig the wires because our hands were small. He was also a bookie...maybe you can find the article in the Chronicle telegram where Eddie's cigar store on Broad st Elyria got busted for placing bets...that's where my dad would got to drop off all those long white pieces of paper with circled numbers around them at. We went with him many, many of times. that should give you a time frame of what I am remembering. It was always, do as I say, not as I do. ~Cathy~

Neil, My aunt told me of the abortion. She felt it was going to come out sooner than later and she wanted us to know her side of it. My aunt also told us of Harry, same thing applies. maybe she wanted us prepared down the line...she knew about Aunt Alice really being "Ayn" and according to you all this was when she was really big. Abortions I don't think were legal back then and homosexuality wasn't as accepted as it is today. I never meet MiMi or her husband. It was Uncle Frank who did the magic tricks. I heard the conversation from the next room about the affair. I asked my aunt about it and she told me. Aunt Agnes always told my dad...Bill if they ask you, then they deserve the truth. I asked and I got the truth. Just because we were Catholic, doesn't mean the damn family wasn't dysfunctional...Cathy

ok...first things first. I will listr the order of each family; you are right Ellen about my father and sibling. Except Nick's name was Harry, and Bill's name was John. Aunt Agnes Marnia (MiMi) Lee Marna (Dockey) Connor (Connie) She also had a baby girl named Denise born Feb 13th but died when she was 7 months old. Margret...I know nothing about, right now anyway. Elizabeth Aunt Bess) Larry Gil Ellen Denny Danny John (my dad) Cathy conny agnes died 1983 John died 1980 birthdate was Dec 29 1902 I don't know the rest. My oldest adopted sister was my mom and her first husbands child.. She was not my dad's.

It's the first one in post 252. The framing is right but burnished aluminum works too. Make sure you use non-acidic matting or it will gas up under the glass and slowly degrade the print by dulling it. --Brant OMGOSH Brant I would love to have it, thank you so much! ~Cathy~

Cathy: Now that's the right attitude! Seriously. Almost like a line from The Fountainhead, ironically.... Please don't be offended by a simple question. That's all it was. The "reason I am here" is the reason have always been here: the posters on this site are invariably interesting, well-read, and mostly recovering Rand aficionados. And they usually aren't as sensitive as Brant is/was this afternoon. I asked the question because I assumed somebody would enlighten me. Again, that is all. What was the line in the fountain head? Hey I just learned how to do this!

Brant, you all are so much smarter than me. When I get it, I will email you so you can tell me exactly how to take care of it. I raised six children, and apparently I only know baby talk. I'm going to get me a dictionary and set it right by me, so I know every word you all are saying...but you all are teaching me some really cool words!

lol...Im sorry once again about the name thing PDS

Jonathan, they are better than I thought. I can say one thing, he is better at it than I am. Thank you for sharing them with me. ~Cathy~