NY TIMES ALERT Congresswoman Giffords shot in the head in Tucson!

[jriggenbach]

I use the word "journalist" in the above post to mean a current group of media members who are biased and agenda driven. A group who will lie, suppress the truth and manipulate the "facts" to advance their agenda.

If I were a masochist, I would try to find out why "Adam Selene," who has probably never worked a day in any newsroom anywhere on Earth, who has no first-hand knowledge whatever of the kinds of people one actually finds working as reporters for newspapers and radio and TV stations and networks, who knows exactly nothing about the actual beliefs and assumptions and purposes such people typically work under when they make the decisions they make at work - why this utter ignoramus believes he "knows" what he claims to know about these people. Not being a masochist, I won't bother to ask.

In any case, we already know the answer, don't we? Does "Adam Selene" ever post anything on politics that isn't a straightforward recitation of the Standard Operating Delusions of the most ignorant branch of the American Right Wing? The delusion that the policies of Barack Obama differ in any significant way from the policies of George W. Bush. The delusion that there is any important difference between Republicans and Democrats. The delusion that evil employees of the major media have conspired to deceive and bamboozle the American public. The delusion that dropping bombs on innocent civilians who have the misfortune to live near the people the U.S. government has issues with is "self defense." The delusion that "we" - that is, Americans - are identical with the U.S. government. The delusion that the U.S. government is the severely limited nightwatchman State envisioned and favored by some of the American founding fathers and has never done anything criminal in all its years of existence - except perhaps when in the hands of evil Democrats.

Such crap.

It's truly depressing.

JR

Edited January 10, 2011 by Jeff Riggenbach

[caroljane]

Messrs. Keer and Brant, you are talking about the inalienable right, which you have, and your strong feelings about that right, and hypothetical scenarios of better exercise of that right.

I am talking about a recent outcome of that right.

Collateral damage? Unintended consequence? Egg in the omelette?

I thought human life, an individual human life like Christina's, was your highest value.

I thought Christina's father was very sensible. As mentioned elsewhere, I am a shotgown owner. The headline equating the right to kill her with "liberty" was grotesque.

[pippi]

Until proven otherwise, this piece of human garbage has the inalienable right to bear a semiautomatic weapon. This crucial symbol of your liberty will last forever while Christina Green age 9, born on 9/11, crumbles into dust.

STOP IT STOP IT STOP IT!!

guns dont kill people people kill people

no surprise you are a teacher in a union

go fuck yourself

[pippi]

you were the one who protested my avatar werent you ?

once again go jump

it's back

Edited January 10, 2011 by pippi

[sjw]

Do you guys even know what Daunce means? I can't understand half of what he's saying. Maybe you should calm yourselves until he makes his meaning clear.

Shayne

[pippi]

Do you guys even know what Daunce means? I can't understand half of what he's saying. Maybe you should calm yourselves until he makes his meaning clear.

Shayne

I dont care what he/she means Shayne

try making an original point here

[pippi]

"daunce" is a teacher and was offended by my avatar and made a whole bunch of baby powder puffy fuss over it

I took it down after the congresswoman got shot out of respect-it is back up now tho

Why the heck anyone in a teachers union adverse to the right to bear arms would post in a forum called OBJECTIVIST LIVING is beyond me unless she (she identified herself as a she somewhere-i cant recall) is just asking for abuse

then again you dont have to self identify here to get abused

damn i was trying like hell not to be top poster - I do not want to be one

Edited January 10, 2011 by pippi

[caroljane]

Do you guys even know what Daunce means? I can't understand half of what he's saying. Maybe you should calm yourselves until he makes his meaning clear.

Shayne

Shayne, thanks, this actually started with a discussion i was having with Adam (Selene) about guns...just a few minutes, i think, before Loughner opened fire. Maybe he can collate it for you, even we unionized teachers have to work sometimes and I have to go to bed. Btw I'm a she, and to Ted and Pippi I say, nice advice you give to a respectable widow, do your mothers know you use such language? \

I will break down and say lol here.

I stand by my thoughts and feelings on the issue at hand.

[pippi]

Do you guys even know what Daunce means? I can't understand half of what he's saying. Maybe you should calm yourselves until he makes his meaning clear.

Shayne

Shayne, thanks, this actually started with a discussion i was having with Adam (Selene) about guns...just a few minutes, i think, before Loughner opened fire. Maybe he can collate it for you, even we unionized teachers have to work sometimes and I have to go to bed. Btw I'm a she, and to Ted and Pippi I say, nice advice you give to a respectable widow, do your mothers know you use such language? \

I will break down and say lol here.

I stand by my thoughts and feelings on the issue at hand.

what language?

[pippi]

ugh

Edited January 10, 2011 by pippi

[pippi]

nm

Edited January 10, 2011 by pippi

[sjw]

So screw you and your pampered ass and sjw-you kindof suck too (not phil he actually ended up being decent hugs phil)

PIPPI

Well I think you and Phil make a perfect couple. Congratulations.

Shayne

[anthony]

John Green:

"After 9/11...we don't need any more restrictions on our society, I think.

That's an American, for you.

I live in a country where the first response to any disaster is blame and regulate. Even in his grief and shock, Mr.Green still holds to his principles.

(Now if his government can only agree with him.)

[BaalChatzaf]

John Green:

"After 9/11...we don't need any more restrictions on our society, I think.

That's an American, for you.

I live in a country where the first response to any disaster is blame and regulate. Even in his grief and shock, Mr.Green still holds to his principles.

(Now if his government can only agree with him.)

It won't.

What a god damn shame about the little girl. I grieve with the father. I have a grand daughter just a year younger so I felt the hot breath of that misfortune down the back of my neck. That little girl should have had a trouble free life, but she did not get it. Damn!

Ba'al Chatzaf

[Brant Gaede]

Messrs. Keer and Brant, you are talking about the inalienable right, which you have, and your strong feelings about that right, and hypothetical scenarios of better exercise of that right.

I am talking about a recent outcome of that right.

Collateral damage? Unintended consequence? Egg in the omelette?

I thought human life, an individual human life like Christina's, was your highest value.

Shall we now talk about "the inalienable right" to possess and drive a car and the horrible consequences of that?

--Brant

Edited January 10, 2011 by Brant Gaede

[Robert Campbell]

The delusion that the policies of Barack Obama differ in any significant way from the policies of George W. Bush. The delusion that there is any important difference between Republicans and Democrats. The delusion that evil employees of the major media have conspired to deceive and bamboozle the American public.

Jeff,

A great many employees of major media outlets in the US talk and act as though Barack Obama's policies are very different from those of George W. Bush—and that there are major disparities between Republicans and Democrats.

Do you agree that they talk and act in these ways?

If so, how do you explain such talk and action?

Robert Campbell

[Brant Gaede]

The delusion that the policies of Barack Obama differ in any significant way from the policies of George W. Bush. The delusion that there is any important difference between Republicans and Democrats. The delusion that evil employees of the major media have conspired to deceive and bamboozle the American public.

Jeff,

A great many employees of major media outlets in the US talk and act as though Barack Obama's policies are very different from those of George W. Bush—and that there are major disparities between Republicans and Democrats.

Do you agree that they talk and act in these ways?

If so, how do you explain such talk and action?

Robert Campbell

Both parties try to bribe the voters, sometimes with different things and sometimes with the same things. The citizens are continually bitch slapped in a form of tag. So far Bush, by far the worst President since Lincoln (maybe Wilson, maybe Hoover, maybe the Roosevelts, maybe Johnson), did much more damage than Obama, but Obama's been President for only two years.

--Brant

what the voters want, the voters get, "good and hard"

Edited January 10, 2011 by Brant Gaede

[pippi]

apologies for the ranting and raving-my goal today is to NOT be a top poster.

have a good one.

[caroljane]

Do you guys even know what Daunce means? I can't understand half of what he's saying. Maybe you should calm yourselves until he makes his meaning clear.

Shayne

Shayne, thanks, this actually started with a discussion i was having with Adam (Selene) about guns...just a few minutes, i think, before Loughner opened fire. Maybe he can collate it for you, even we unionized teachers have to work sometimes and I have to go to bed. Btw I'm a she, and to Ted and Pippi I say, nice advice you give to a respectable widow, do your mothers know you use such language? \

I will break down and say lol here.

I stand by my thoughts and feelings on the issue at hand.

what language?

Well, I speak English and French, and you speak the more popular Fuckish.

[Selene]

From the NY Times:

"Neighbors of Mr. Loughner in Orangewood Estates, a middle-class subdivision of single-family homes north of Tucson, said that he lived with his parents, Amy and Randy Loughner, and that they did not believe he had siblings. Two neighbors said they saw the family come and go but knew little about them."

CGI's ellesea: PEEKYOU.COM - JARED LOUGHNER RESULTS

Posted By: Susoni

Date: Monday, 10-Jan-2011 00:13:57

I searched peek you.com for Jared Loughner:

http://www.peekyou.com/usa/arizona/jared_loughner

And the first web result is with google :

Arizona - State - USA - Knol Authors - a knol by Narayana Rao K.V.S.S.

http://knol.google.com/k/narayana-rao-k-v-s-s/arizona-state-usa-knol-authors/2utb2lsm2k7a/1013

#

Go down to: “Knol Authors of Arizona State.” and it has: “Jared Loughner, Arizona, Pima College Student ”

Clicking on that link brings up his page? Which looks like if information was there it has been deleted.

Going to the right column it has:

Author's statistics

Author since: Feb 1, 2009 12:17 AM

Last active: Dec 5, 2009 2:07 AM

And a list of categories:

Categories

Drug addiction

health

health conditions

hental health

psychology

society

Learn more about categories

Clicking on the “Learn more about categories” page, it says authors, readers, and google, ( if there is no category already added), can assign categories,

http://knol.google.com/k/knol-category-browsing

#

Back to the PEEKYOU.COM page, it says possible relations is randy loughner (58) and amy loughner (53)

Going to their pages, starting with Amy:

http://www.peekyou.com/amy_loughner/319383294

Going to the possible links section, pagnet.org links, ( they are both PDFS):

1) Cienega Creek Natural Preserve Surface Water

Annual Report for the 2007-2008 Fiscal Year (dated Aug 11, 2009)

This PDF was CC to her.

2) Reducing the Exotic Aquatic Species Threat in Pima County (dated Feb. 27th 2001)

This says in the acknowledgments: "Amy Loughner, Pima

County Parks and Recreation" [pg.2, 9th and 10th line)

The third one, also a pdf: (dated May 2004)

friendsofaguacaliente.org

says she is the Park Manager, and a Pima County Employee. [pg. 2, on the left hand side, under the picture]

I also found this link, I cant remember which page I found it on of amy's, (it seems she has a few pages that peekyou as made:

http://www.speciesbanking.com/pages/dynamic/directory.page.php?page_id=7083

Another page from peekyou with info about her:

http://www.peekyou.com/ext/?target=http://pipl.com/directory/name/Loughner/Amy&first=amy&last=loughner&city=&region=AZ

--------------------------------------------------

On to Randy Loughner's page:

http://www.peekyou.com/randy_loughner/319377678

If you go down to the possible links section again, you will see two (2) entries for democraticunderground.com, one leads to this:

"cbdo2007 (1000+ posts) Click to send private message to this author Click to view this author's profile Click to add this author to your buddy list Click to add this author to your Ignore list Sat Jan-08-11 09:35 PM

Response to Original message

46. Shooters dad is 58 year old Randy Loughner from Tucson, AZ

Could this be who accompanied him to the meetings?

We've searched like crazy for the shooter - Jared - but let's see if we can some up with any FR or tea party stuff about his dad Randy Loughner. I'll be searching as well and let you know if I come up with anything.

"

and the other to:

"musette_sf Donating Member (1000+ posts) Click to send private message to this author Click to view this author's profile Click to add this author to your buddy list Click to add this author to your Ignore list Sat Jan-08-11 08:23 PM

Original message

"Person of Interest" is white, in his 50s

Advertisements [?]

Edited on Sat Jan-08-11 08:29 PM by musette_sf

just on live presser, per Pima Cty Sheriff

add:

Reporters asking any detail on POI

Sheriff says "He's white"

Reporters ask if POI is in same age group as captured suspect

Sheriff says "in his 50s""

The searchbug.com link didnt lead to anything.

--------------------------------------------------------

I typed Amy Loughner and by accident put arkansas instead of arizona and another page comes up for her:

http://www.peekyou.com/usa/arkansas/amy_loughner

(as well as this with more PDFS like the first ones:

http://www.peekyou.com/usa/arizona/amy_loughner

)

it has another, way more detailed page on her son jared lee loughner:

http://www.peekyou.com/tucson/319378661

Starting with his username leads to this page:

http://www.peekyou.com/username=classitup10

His bio on this page says:

"Bio:

Jared Lee Loughner is 22 years old. He lives in Tucson, AZ.

He loves listening to Pulp and Siddhartha. The Wizard Of Oz and To Kill A Mockingbird are his favorite films.

On the web, Jared goes by the aliases Jared and classitup10."

----------------------------------------------

I havent gone through this yet, because I want to get this up and posted so everyone can grab and look through it if it happens to be taken down in the future.

Ellesea

Edited January 10, 2011 by Selene

[jriggenbach]

A great many employees of major media outlets in the US talk and act as though Barack Obama's policies are very different from those of George W. Bush—and that there are major disparities between Republicans and Democrats.

Do you agree that they talk and act in these ways?

If so, how do you explain such talk and action?

People who work as reporters, especially for the major media (but not only for the major media), are not highly intelligent or thoughtful or critically self-aware people. Like most Americans they buy wholeheartedly into the nationalist civic religion of the United States, which stipulates that there is a fundamental clash between Republicans and Democrats, representing two entirely different views of how society should be organized and should work, and that this clash is the most momentous ongoing event in all our lives - one we must attend to just as though it posed a life or death choice upon us. Further, their training in journalism has taught them (mostly implicitly but very forcibly) that interesting viewers or readers or listeners in the news of the day involves casting that news in the form of a story about a conflict (the more momentous that conflict the better) - preferably a conflict with a clear bad guy and a clear good guy and a clear, unequivocal result. Like most other Americans, these reporters have favorites in this momentous ongoing conflict between the Republicans and the Democrats, though, like most Americans, the reporters are mostly unaware that they do have such favorites. They believe themselves to be neutral observers on the sidelines, presenting the simple truth about the latest skirmishes in the momentous conflict. They do not regard their copy as "biased." They do not make it biased on purpose. On the contrary, they strive (though ineffectively, due to their ignorance and their lack of intelligence) to banish such bias from what they write.

JR

[sjw]

A great many employees of major media outlets in the US talk and act as though Barack Obama's policies are very different from those of George W. Bush—and that there are major disparities between Republicans and Democrats.

Do you agree that they talk and act in these ways?

If so, how do you explain such talk and action?

People who work as reporters, especially for the major media (but not only for the major media), are not highly intelligent or thoughtful or critically self-aware people. Like most Americans they buy wholeheartedly into the nationalist civic religion of the United States, which stipulates that there is a fundamental clash between Republicans and Democrats, representing two entirely different views of how society should be organized and should work, and that this clash is the most momentous ongoing event in all our lives - one we must attend to just as though it posed a life or death choice upon us. Further, their training in journalism has taught them (mostly implicitly but very forcibly) that interesting viewers or readers or listeners in the news of the day involves casting that news in the form of a story about a conflict (the more momentous that conflict the better) - preferably a conflict with a clear bad guy and a clear good guy and a clear, unequivocal result. Like most other Americans, these reporters have favorites in this momentous ongoing conflict between the Republicans and the Democrats, though, like most Americans, the reporters are mostly unaware that they do have such favorites. They believe themselves to be neutral observers on the sidelines, presenting the simple truth about the latest skirmishes in the momentous conflict. They do not regard their copy as "biased." They do not make it biased on purpose. On the contrary, they strive (though ineffectively, due to their ignorance and their lack of intelligence) to banish such bias from what they write.

JR

Penetrating insight. I wish JR posted more.

Shayne

[Brant Gaede]

Adam, why are you wasting your time rooting around in the bottom of the barrel for minutiae? You've taken it from beyond interesting ever for me, and I'm a local who sent Giffords emails announcing her political annihilation if she voted for Obamacare. (I suspect the FBI will knock on my door in about two months, working off a list of several hundred.)

--Brant

[Selene]

Adam, why are you wasting your time rooting around in the bottom of the barrel for minutiae? You've taken it from beyond interesting ever for me, and I'm a local who sent Giffords emails announcing her political annihilation if she voted for Obamacare. (I suspect the FBI will knock on my door in about two months, working off a list of several hundred.)

--Brant

Brant:

Actually, it is an experiment to track one narrow piece of information. It is not meant to annoy folks. It takes no time at all actually. While I am speaking to a company about a client, I can run a search without disrupting my train of thought. I have a very compartmentalized mind. I might have spent ten (10) minutes today on the searches.

My apologies.

Adam

[Brant Gaede]

Adam, why are you wasting your time rooting around in the bottom of the barrel for minutiae? You've taken it from beyond interesting ever for me, and I'm a local who sent Giffords emails announcing her political annihilation if she voted for Obamacare. (I suspect the FBI will knock on my door in about two months, working off a list of several hundred.)

--Brant

Brant:

Actually, it is an experiment to track one narrow piece of information. It is not meant to annoy folks. It takes no time at all actually. While I am speaking to a company about a client, I can run a search without disrupting my train of thought. I have a very compartmentalized mind. I might have spent ten (10) minutes today on the searches.

My apologies.

Adam

I didn't know you're a lawyer.

--Brant