Peikoff on the Ground Zero Mosque

[Michael Stuart Kelly]

Objectivist Living should change its name to Libertarian Living.-it would be appropriate to the prevalent philosophy here.

blackhorse,

It occurs to me that you are a preacher, not an intellectual. The site is not called "Objectivist Preaching" and never will be.

The purpose here is to examine ideas, not preach them. It is for people to work through their own thinking, not the thinking people like you want to impose on them.

The starting point is Objectivism, not the end point. OL is not a part of any "movement."

If people thinking for themselves causes you discomfort, you can move on.

Michael

[blackhorse]

James, my list of safe nations-states to visit; Iceland, Norway, Finland, Greenland, Ireland, Tasmania, Canada, New Zealand, Switzerland.

[blackhorse]

Michael, I am merely stating that OL is more in line with libertarian ideology then objectivist as defined by Ayn Rand.

[sbeaulieu]

Is this a deliniating marker for suicide attacks? That is, did Nazis have a direct link to terrorist usage of suicide bombing? If so, how did they convince Muslims? The only reason I ask is I haven't heard or read much of any similar techniques used by the Nazis during WWII.

Shane,

Muslim suicide bombing like we know it today is a recent thing. The technique is not derived from Nazism. The Nazi part is the raw evil intelligent enough to recognize a great opportunity to do more evil and develop it as cannon fodder (or bomb fodder to be more precise). One hallmark of Nazism was nasty experiments where human life was expendable.

And just to be clear, I don't think pure Nazism exists anymore in the Muslim world. Nazism is a seminal influence, not a formal ideology. The ideas got transmitted and wedded to Islam in Islamism, but not the forms.

Michael

Michael,

Yeah...I did a bit of looking up bombing origins. Apparently, that came about in the early 80s via the Hezbullah Suicide Bombing Origins.

Of note are the Tamil Tigers, suspected of being aboard ships on their way to Canada. Agenda? Hard to say...

I see where you're coming from with regard to the Nazis. Ideologically, they found a haven in the Muslims to instill hatred. I wonder what the Neo-Nazi stance is towards Muslims, specifically those of Arab descent?

~ Shane

[Michael Stuart Kelly]

blackhorse,

Wrong again.

OL is not in line with anything. There is no preaching of any party line.

OL is a place where individuals discuss ideas. Sometimes we get more libertarians. Sometimes we get Rand critics. Sometimes we get Rand scholars. Sometimes we even get people from other philosophies like General Semantics.

We don't get many preachers (Objectivist or otherwise) because I make them uncomfortable when they start intimidating others. Unfortunatley, that's what preachers always do on forums. And if If they don't stop or move on, I prune them. Most move on because they seek followings and can't get one here. Too many independent-thinking individuals and a big meanie like me who wants to keep it that way.

Michael

[Michael Stuart Kelly]

I see where you're coming from with regard to the Nazis. Ideologically, they found a haven in the Muslims to instill hatred. I wonder what the Neo-Nazi stance is towards Muslims, specifically those of Arab descent?

Shane,

From what I have seen, they can't stand them.

And the reasons are racial.

They are haters, after all...

Hitler used to look down on Grand Mufti al-Husseini, even has he gave him some power. I think he had Muslims in mind for a final solution after he finished with the Jews. Speculation, I know, but it feels right if you look at his history.

Michael

[Libertarian Muslim]

James, my list of safe nations-states to visit; Iceland, Norway, Finland, Greenland, Ireland, Tasmania, Canada, New Zealand, Switzerland.

Tasmania is not a nation state, it's a state of Australia.

[Brant Gaede]

James, my list of safe nations-states to visit; Iceland, Norway, Finland, Greenland, Ireland, Tasmania, Canada, New Zealand, Switzerland.

Tasmania is not a nation state, it's a state of Australia.

Europeans exterminated all the Tasmanians, mostly by disease. There were probably about 10,000 in the early 19th C.

--Brant

not one left

Edited August 13, 2010 by Brant Gaede

[blackhorse]

Adonis, re-read my post. I wrote nations-STATES.

[blackhorse]

Geez Brant, I can only imagine what your opinion of Columbus could be.

[Brant Gaede]

Geez Brant, I can only imagine what your opinion of Columbus could be.

A great man.

--Brant

didn't see it coming, did you?

[BaalChatzaf]

Geez Brant, I can only imagine what your opinion of Columbus could be.

Which Columbus? The factual Columbus or the quasi-fictional Columbus created by Washington Irving?

Ba'al Chatzaf

[anthony]

Perhaps there's a lesson from Israel, and its own mosques, here.

There has just been an incident of vandalism perpetrated by some crazy little group of Israelis. A mosque at Shomron, West Bank, had a carpet burned and some holy books burned. It's been strongly condemned by Govt ministers and several rabbis, as it should be.

But the bigger picture is this: 16% of Israelis are Muslim - 1.15 million. There are 14 mosques in Israel. (Compare this to roughly 4 million Palestinians, with 23 mosques in Gaza, and the West Bank).

Now, right through Israel's wars, extended spate of suicide bombings, conflicts and rocket attacks, there has never to my knowledge been a vengeful destruction of an Israeli mosque, whether by those crazy fanatics, or the government.

It seems as though Israel has learned to not allow itself the irrational luxury of hating Muslims just for being Muslim - with detractors all around and on its front doorstep, it has had to be very precise about who the real enemy is, and target them, alone.

Previous PM, Ehud Olmert, said a few years ago, "Anger is not an operational plan."

Food for thought...

Tony

[9thdoctor]

Peikoff's latest podcast has some related material, sorry I'm too tired to summarize. Immigration. Muslims. Keep 'em out with a low threshold of suspicion. Make sure they don't support "sharia". Ergo a religious test for immigration, thus citizenship, and bye bye First Amendment. Gotta love Lenny.

http://www.peikoff.com/2010/09/13/you-said-that-if-a-country-had-laissez-faire-it-should-not-control-immigration-what-if-new-zealand-with-a-population-of-4-5-million-people-had-laissez-faire-would-it-be-obligated-to-accept-all-imm/

Edited September 14, 2010 by Ninth Doctor

[9thdoctor]

There’s fresh Lenny on Muslims, this time on Burqa bannings in Europe. Whether his reasoning squares with Rand’s opinion of Nazis marching in Skokie, we’ll see, if anyone wants to talk about it. I’m pretty numb from an overdose of Peikoff these last weeks.

http://www.peikoff.com/2010/11/15/what-should-an-objectivist-make-of-the-french-banning-of-burqas/

Somewhere, relatively recently, Nathaniel Branden was asked about Peikoff and he just said that he doesn't regard him as a serious thinker. Annie Oakley had nothing on NB for aim.

[Mike11]

I feel sorry for him. I mean he has left no one around to question him, he's not a Hitler but he is definitely in the Bunker. Like this is really, really sad.

[Selene]

I feel sorry for him. I mean he has left no one around to question him, he's not a Hitler but he is definitely in the Bunker. Like this is really, really sad.

"Pity for the guilty is treason to the innocent."

Guess who?

Adam

amusing in a poetic justice way

[Fred Cole]

I need to chime in here. I remember listening to this podcast.

The absolute best part what when Peikoff said how he doesn't want to answer anymore questions about this because

"I do this podcast because I like talking to young people, not because I want to give myself a heart attack."

And this is entirely believable because he really works himself up during this podcast.

I come from the clash of civilizations school, so I understand where Peikoff is at with this, but he's always struck me as a little blood thirsty.