If you ever decided to leave the USA, where would you go?

[dan2100]

Finally, what do I care if Israel is nuked?

Chris,

Then obviously you won't mind if Israel nukes Iran.

Do I interpret you correctly?

Michael

That's a good comeback!

Also, I hope people who might, say, be against a particular foreign state/government are not confusing that with the entire nation that that state/government has subjugated. For instance, I'd hope everyone here despises the Iranian government -- even if no one wants to make it the number one public issue or go to war to bring down that government -- but doesn't spread that same despising to everyone in Iran. (The same applies to any other state/government.)

[Robert Campbell]

Folks,

I know Chris Baker and I know that he's not a sociopath.

I don't believe he hates Jews, either.

But does anyone genuinely not care whether

Kyrgyzstan gets nuked?

North Korea gets nuked?

Slovenia gets nuked?

Equatorial Guinea gets nuked?

Tonga gets nuked?

Robert

[Brant Gaede]

Chris did a pretty good job of chewing up Peter's post. I stopped reading Peter because he posts too many which are just too long. When I do read him I find much to object to so I assume that which I don't read is much the same. I don't think Chris's Israel question was rhetorical or maybe it was both rhetorical and not rhetorical. I do think he would have asked it even if Israel was full nothing but WASPs and Iran was only Jews. We might consider how oil figures in all this Middle Eastern turmoil, wars, terrorism and the other crazy nonsense.

--Brant

Edited April 9, 2010 by Brant Gaede

[dan2100]

Folks,

I know Chris Baker and I know that he's not a sociopath.

I don't believe he hates Jews, either.

But does anyone genuinely not care whether

Kyrgyzstan gets nuked?

North Korea gets nuked?

Slovenia gets nuked?

Equatorial Guinea gets nuked?

Tonga gets nuked?

While it's nice to say one cares about this or that, isn't the truth that almost no one would change their life much if some tragedy happened far enough away to some strangers? After all, no one here, I hope, is for murder, but do any of lose sleep or plan to devote any effort over murders in Tashkent or some other city sufficiently far from your awareness? (This is, of course, different than stating you don't care.)

[algernonsidney]

Finally, what do I care if Israel is nuked?

Chris,

What other countries would you say this about?

Robert Campbell

Afghanistan

Armenia

Azerbaijan

Bahrain

Bangladesh

Bhutan

Brunei

Cambodia

People's Republic of China

Republic of China (Taiwan)

Cyprus

Egypt

Georgia

Indonesia

Iran

Iraq

Kazakhstan

North Korea

Kuwait

Kyrgyzstan

Laos

Malaysia

Maldives

Mongolia

Nepal

Pakistan

Qatar

Russia

Saudi Arabia

Sri Lanka

Syria

Tajikistan

Turkey

Turkmenistan

United Arab Emirates

Uzbekistan

Vietnam

Yemen

Benin

Burkina Faso

Cote d'Ivorie

Gambia

Guinea

Guinea-Bissau

Liberia

Mali

Mauritania

Niger

Senegal

Sierra Leone

Togo

Algeria

Libya

Morocco

Sudan

Tunisia

Angola

Burundi

Cameroon

Central African Republic

Chad

Democratic Republic of the Congo

Republic of the Congo

Equatorial Guinea

Gabon

Rwanda

Sao Time and Principe

Comoros

Djibouti

Eritrea

Madagascar

Malawi

Mauritius

Mozambique

Seychelles

Uganda

Zambia

Zimbabwe

Lesotho

South Africa

Swaziland

Abkhazia

Albania

Andorra

Belarus

Bosnia and Herzegovina

France

Germany

Hungary

Kosovo

Macedonia

Moldova

Montenegro

Nagorno-Karabakh

Northern Cyprus

Portugal

Serbia

South Ossetia

Transnistria

Ukraine

United Kingdom

Antigua and Barbuda

Cuba

Dominica

Grenada

Guatemala

Haiti

Honduras

Nicaragua

St. Kitts and Nevis

St. Lucia

St. Vincent and the Grenadines

Trinidad and Tobago

Bolivia

Colombia

Guyana

Paraguay

Suriname

Venezuela

Fiji

Kiribati

Micronesia

Marshall Islands

Palau

Papua New Guinea

Samoa

Solomon Islands

Tonga

Tuvalu

Vanuatu

There may be others. I think I considered all of them, though.

[algernonsidney]

'I am not my brother's keeper'

That's exactly what I meant.

Last time I checked, only one country in the history of the world has ever used nuclear weapons against another country.

[tjohnson]

There may be others. I think I considered all of them, though.

Well, at least you care if Canada gets nuked or not What is your criteria for the selection above?

[algernonsidney]

Finally, what do I care if Israel is nuked?

Chris, Then obviously you won't mind if Israel nukes Iran. Do I interpret you correctly? Michael

My feelings about Israel nuking Iran are about the same as my feelings about Iran nuking Israel.

Of course, that is actually possible right now. Israel has nuclear weapons.

Edited April 9, 2010 by Chris Baker

[algernonsidney]

It seems that edited posts end up getting reposted.<br><br>

Edited April 9, 2010 by Chris Baker

[algernonsidney]

There may be others. I think I considered all of them, though.

Well, at least you care if Canada gets nuked or not What is your criteria for the selection above?

I went over that list pretty quickly. Ultimately, my consideration was how much potential for good or for bad the countries have, based on the knowledge that I have. It's also whether or not I might want to visit the place. I will admit that my knowledge about some of them is scant.

By almost all objective standards, that worthless socialist hellhole Belgium should be on the list. However, I have a very good friend who lives there.

Ultimately, the questions are:

Would I be willing to fight in support of these countries?

Would I be willing to spend significant money to support these countries?

I don't think a lot of countries are worth defending.

I left Canada and Mexico off solely because they both border the US. If something like that happened to them, it would negatively affect the US.

[dan2100]

There may be others. I think I considered all of them, though.

Well, at least you care if Canada gets nuked or not What is your criteria for the selection above?

Yeah, and I'd like an alphabetized list.

[Michael Stuart Kelly]

But does anyone genuinely not care whether

Kyrgyzstan gets nuked?

North Korea gets nuked?

Slovenia gets nuked?

Equatorial Guinea gets nuked?

Tonga gets nuked?

Robert,

I care. And I care deeply.

But I do respect Chris's right to be indifferent.

If he doesn't mind whether Jews or Iranians get blown to smithereens, that's his business.

By him expressing his indifference, I know not to ask him to help if I start or join some kind of initiative.

I think it's valuable to know where and when something will be a waste of time. You save time and effort.

Michael

[dan2100]

But does anyone genuinely not care whether

Kyrgyzstan gets nuked?

North Korea gets nuked?

Slovenia gets nuked?

Equatorial Guinea gets nuked?

Tonga gets nuked?

Robert,

I care. And I care deeply.

I care too, but I wonder what that care amounts to. What would anyone here devote of their own efforts -- rather than, say, suggesting to coerce others to support some policy or other -- to prevented Kyrgyzstan from being nuked?

But I do respect Chris's right to be indifferent.

If he doesn't mind whether Jews or Iranians get blown to smithereens, that's his business.

By him expressing his indifference, I know not to ask him to help if I start or join some kind of initiative.

I think it's valuable to know where and when something will be a waste of time. You save time and effort.

Clarification: I don't think Chris said a specific ethnic or religious group. I think he was just talking about countries being nuked -- and caring to the degree that that impacted his life in a way he, uh, cared about.

[algernonsidney]

Robert,

I care. And I care deeply.

But I do respect Chris's right to be indifferent.

If he doesn't mind whether Jews or Iranians get blown to smithereens, that's his business.

By him expressing his indifference, I know not to ask him to help if I start or join some kind of initiative.

I think it's valuable to know where and when something will be a waste of time. You save time and effort.

Michael

It's question of how much I care. Do I care enough that I will spend my time worrying about it? Should I spend my time on this? Should I lose sleep over it?

Do I care if the four missing coal miners are found? Yes, I care in the sense that they are human beings. Their deaths are effectively unnecessary and pointless. Is it going to matter in my grand scheme of life if they are found dead or alive? Well, no.

Do I care enough that I am going to go there and try to get them out? No. I am willing to bet that they are likely dead by now anyway. Did I care enough to join a Facebook group called: "Pray for the coal miners." Yes, I did.

While it's hardly has Objectivist roots, there is a great deal of truth to the attitude: "Grant me the serenity to accept the things I can't change, courage to change the things that I can, and the wisdom to know the difference."

No, I don't want to see nukes used in warfare. What can I do to stop that? There isn't much really.

[Michael Stuart Kelly]

Chris,

Somehow your last post doesn't sound much like, "Finally, what do I care if Israel is nuked?"

(You words...)

Am I missing something?

Michael

[dan2100]

Chris,

Somehow your last post doesn't sound much like, "Finally, what do I care if Israel is nuked?"

(You words...)

Am I missing something?

Michael

Maybe he was angrier or writing in haste earlier. Chris?

Edited April 12, 2010 by Dan Ust

[Barbara Branden]

Michael wrote, "But I do respect Chris's right to be indifferent."

I do not. Precisely what is worth caring about, if human life is not?

Barbara

:

[Michael Stuart Kelly]

Michael wrote, "But I do respect Chris's right to be indifferent."

I do not. Precisely what is worth caring about, if human life is not?

Barbara,

Heh.

The way I framed it sure sounds ugly, doesn't it?

I know that's not a "right" I wish to exercise anytime soon.

I wonder if anyone else around here wants to...

(I think my "smartass" observation was more spot on than this other stuff. But if someone wants to be a smartass, he's gotta live with the unintended reputation that logically derives from his own comments...)

Michael

[merjet]

Michael wrote, "But I do respect Chris's right to be indifferent."

I do not. Precisely what is worth caring about, if human life is not?

Barbara

:

You don't respect his right or his opinion? That is a huge difference.

[Barbara Branden]

Michael wrote, "But I do respect Chris's right to be indifferent."

I do not. Precisely what is worth caring about, if human life is not?

Barbara

:

You don't respect his right or his opinion? That is a huge difference.

Merlin , of course he has the legal right to his opinion, but I do not grant him a moral right to his brutal indifference to human life. Do you recall the Kitty Genovese case? A young woman was being murdered on a New York City street; she screamed for help, again and again -- but none of the residents of the apartment buildings on the street, who heard her cries, who witnessed her murder from their windows, took the trouble even to call the police. After all, why should they care? Canada and Israel and Belgium and Iran are not mere abstractions; they are inhabited by millions of innocent Kitty Genoveses, who want to live as much -- perhaps more -- than Chris does . . . even if he does not care to visit them.

Barbara

[Alfonso Jones]

Folks,

I know Chris Baker and I know that he's not a sociopath.

I don't believe he hates Jews, either.

But does anyone genuinely not care whether

Kyrgyzstan gets nuked?

North Korea gets nuked?

Slovenia gets nuked?

Equatorial Guinea gets nuked?

Tonga gets nuked?

Robert

I would far prefer living in a society where people did care (though there would be doubtless be discussions, some of them heated, about what sort of actions those evaluations might lead to) than in a society where the dominant attitude was to brazenly declare indifference to the loss of human life.

Bill P

[Brant Gaede]

The grace of the situation is merely to let Chris re-state his case. The pie can be cut several ways. Let him definitively cut it the way he wants to eat and be it.

--Brant

[Alfonso Jones]

The grace of the situation is merely to let Chris re-state his case. The pie can be cut several ways. Let him definitively cut it the way he wants to eat and be it.

--Brant

Of course. I think such options are always open.

Bill P

[Brant Gaede]

This is the difference between the Republican Party and the Democratic Party:

The Republican Party likes to pretend that there are speed limits on the highway to hell.

Jeffrey S.

Just saw this Jeff. Just great!

--Brant

[DavidMcK]

What he was defending is the idea that the American military is here for self-defense....of Americans and the North American continent. As someone else said on a different but related matter if the Objectivist Zionists want to fight for Israel in a free laissez faire non-interventionist capitalist political system no one will stop you.