algernonsidney Posted March 22, 2010 Share Posted March 22, 2010 You can call me a cynic if you like. And, yes, I have read Ayn Rand's article "Don't Let it Go." The fact that Atlas Shrugged sold more copies in 2009 than it did in any previous year is one of the few reasons to still have faith in the USA. That being said, I don't see many others.And while Rand's books have sold a lot, has that made a difference? The country was certainly in better shape in 1957 than now. And one man who claimed to be a follower of Rand ended up being one of the biggest free market frauds in my lifetime and did absolutely nothing to advocate laissez faire. We haven't seen a real-life version of Rearden or Galt. We have definitely seen a real-life version of Doctor Robert Stadler in the form of Alan Greenspan.So, if you decided to leave, where would you go? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Backlighting Posted March 22, 2010 Share Posted March 22, 2010 You can call me a cynic if you like. And, yes, I have read Ayn Rand's article "Don't Let it Go." The fact that Atlas Shrugged sold more copies in 2009 than it did in any previous year is one of the few reasons to still have faith in the USA. That being said, I don't see many others.And while Rand's books have sold a lot, has that made a difference? The country was certainly in better shape in 1957 than now. And one man who claimed to be a follower of Rand ended up being one of the biggest free market frauds in my lifetime and did absolutely nothing to advocate laissez faire. We haven't seen a real-life version of Rearden or Galt. We have definitely seen a real-life version of Doctor Robert Stadler in the form of Alan Greenspan.So, if you decided to leave, where would you go? Chris, Do you remember how foul the sixties and early seventies were?The draft, Vietnam, wage & price controls, LBJ's "Great Society" programs, etc. Some of that stench is gone, only to be replaced with new stench. As AR wrote, as long as there is a free press there is always the chance to reverse course. I must admit though, I find the status quo more reprehensible then years past.Although I'm not at the exodus stage yet, I would investigate living in Hong Kong, Chile and Costa Rica. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alfonso Jones Posted March 22, 2010 Share Posted March 22, 2010 I assume you mean "leave" in a permanent sense. I am living in Shanghai, China, and have been here part-time since 2003, full-time since 2006.I don't see leaving the USA (as in abandoning citizenship) as appropriate. There is still hope - - - and where will you find greater freedom, particularly freedom of speech, than in the USA?Bill P Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
psychoanaleesis Posted March 22, 2010 Share Posted March 22, 2010 As opposed to your proposal, I'm trying to leave this country (Philippines) to go to the US. I may have to stop by some more socialist places along the way though... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BaalChatzaf Posted March 22, 2010 Share Posted March 22, 2010 Switzerland. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
psychoanaleesis Posted March 22, 2010 Share Posted March 22, 2010 Switzerland.Nice choice. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Robert Campbell Posted March 22, 2010 Share Posted March 22, 2010 Nice place.Bring lots of money Robert Campbell Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
algernonsidney Posted March 22, 2010 Author Share Posted March 22, 2010 (edited) Chris, Do you remember how foul the sixties and early seventies were?I was born in 1971. Really I don't remember. Here's what I do know about those times. You could smoke in public, even though I do not smoke. You had a choice about wearing your seat belt in your car. The federal budget deficit was still less than one trillion dollars overall. We had less environmental regulation. You could tell a dirty joke at your workplace and didn't worry about "sexual harassment." Cops would only pull over your car if they had a reason. There was no asset forfeiture bullshit and no red light cameras.This country has went way downhill in my lifetime.Although I'm not at the exodus stage yet, I would investigate living in Hong Kong, Chile and Costa Rica.Chile is the best of the three. I have heard that Costa Rica is just too popular. Who knows what will happen with Hong Kong. Edited March 22, 2010 by Chris Baker Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dan2100 Posted March 22, 2010 Share Posted March 22, 2010 (edited) I'm surprised no one has mentioned New Zealand. Edited March 22, 2010 by Dan Ust Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tjohnson Posted March 22, 2010 Share Posted March 22, 2010 I'm surprised no one has mentioned New Zealand. Yes, I hear the real estate is very moderately priced in Hobbiton. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Peter Posted March 22, 2010 Share Posted March 22, 2010 Dan Ust wrote:I'm surprised no one has mentioned New Zealand. endquoteI saw your picture Dan. Wow. Which Hobbit would you portray? Just kidding. I saw no tufts of hair growing from your ears.General responded to Dan:Yes, I hear the real estate is very moderately priced in Hobbiton. end quoteMy Dad lived in Christ Church, New Zealand back in the late nineteen fifties and came back saying it was a strange place and very socialistic. But he liked the women, many of whom wanted to marry him and come to America.How bad will it need to be before America is worse than . . . pick a place. I have twice lived out of the country and I missed America deeply, flaws and all. I think all of us will stay and fight for our rights.Costa Rica has socialized medicine, but Rush says he will go there for medical treatment. I can't quite figure that out.If we all went to Australia (who's people I think we are the most like) we would miss America. The solution is to be rich, like a rock star and do as you please.Semper cogitans fidele,Peter Taylor Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jriggenbach Posted March 22, 2010 Share Posted March 22, 2010 Costa Rica has socialized medicine, but Rush says he will go there for medical treatment. I can't quite figure that out.My advice: don't even try to figure it out. If you do, it'll only interfere with your ability to continue believing your childish fantasy that Rush is on "our" side politically.JR Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Greybird Posted March 23, 2010 Share Posted March 23, 2010 Lagrange Point Five. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DavidMcK Posted March 23, 2010 Share Posted March 23, 2010 Great idea...I bet you're a Robert Heinlein fan. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dan2100 Posted March 23, 2010 Share Posted March 23, 2010 Lagrange Point Five.When do we leave? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dan2100 Posted March 23, 2010 Share Posted March 23, 2010 (edited) Costa Rica has socialized medicine, but Rush says he will go there for medical treatment. I can't quite figure that out.My advice: don't even try to figure it out. If you do, it'll only interfere with your ability to continue believing your childish fantasy that Rush is on "our" side politically.JRI'm surprised you think he is on "our" side -- if we can be said to be on the same side. Edited March 23, 2010 by Dan Ust Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
syrakusos Posted March 25, 2010 Share Posted March 25, 2010 Hungary.En eredmenyi magyar volt. (My ancestors were Hungarian.) I can pick up the language easily. Hungary has a high individualism index. Gender equality is good. And George Soros has funded the Central European University where I would work on a doctorate in global capitalism. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dan2100 Posted March 25, 2010 Share Posted March 25, 2010 Hungary.En eredmenyi magyar volt. (My ancestors were Hungarian.) I can pick up the language easily. Hungary has a high individualism index. Gender equality is good. And George Soros has funded the Central European University where I would work on a doctorate in global capitalism.I've heard it's one of the most difficult languages to learn. I've also heard Budapest is a beautiful city. I hope to visit it one day, though I've got many more to check off my list first. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bmacwilliam Posted March 25, 2010 Share Posted March 25, 2010 (edited) There is still hope - - - and where will you find greater freedom, particularly freedom of speech, than in the USA?Bill PIf freedom of the press in a reasonable proxy for freedom of speach, the US is quite far down the list. Edited March 25, 2010 by Bob_Mac Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bmacwilliam Posted March 25, 2010 Share Posted March 25, 2010 For economic freedom based on - personal choice- voluntary exchange coordinated by markets- freedom to enter and compete in markets- protection of persons and their propertyfrom aggression by others.The US is tied for 8th place. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BaalChatzaf Posted March 25, 2010 Share Posted March 25, 2010 There is still hope - - - and where will you find greater freedom, particularly freedom of speech, than in the USA?Bill PIf freedom of the press in a reasonable proxy for freedom of speach, the US is quite far down the list.Except for military secrets there are no government prior restraints on what is printed in the newspapers. So how did you come to your conclusion?Ba'al Chatzaf Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bmacwilliam Posted March 25, 2010 Share Posted March 25, 2010 There is still hope - - - and where will you find greater freedom, particularly freedom of speech, than in the USA?Bill PIf freedom of the press in a reasonable proxy for freedom of speach, the US is quite far down the list.Except for military secrets there are no government prior restraints on what is printed in the newspapers. So how did you come to your conclusion?Ba'al ChatzafA few sources. Freedomhouse, an American source, ranks the US tied for 16th.Bob Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BaalChatzaf Posted March 25, 2010 Share Posted March 25, 2010 A few sources. Freedomhouse, an American source, ranks the US tied for 16th.BobAnd how is the ranking scheme justified or validated? I see no signs of prior constraint in any of the print media. Am I missing something? I see no prior restraint hushing up the blogs. So where is the prior restraint? Ba'al Chatzaf Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bmacwilliam Posted March 25, 2010 Share Posted March 25, 2010 A few sources. Freedomhouse, an American source, ranks the US tied for 16th.BobAnd how is the ranking scheme justified or validated? I see no signs of prior constraint in any of the print media. Am I missing something? I see no prior restraint hushing up the blogs. So where is the prior restraint? Ba'al ChatzafWell, it's journalists ranking the freedom of their own craft in different countries. How they do it? Don't know.However, I do know that you just can't look at Government restraint. Ask Bill Maher how much "restraint" he encountered after suffering the consequences of his "Anti-US" remarks after 911.bob Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alfonso Jones Posted March 26, 2010 Share Posted March 26, 2010 For economic freedom based on - personal choice- voluntary exchange coordinated by markets- freedom to enter and compete in markets- protection of persons and their propertyfrom aggression by others.The US is tied for 8th place.I may have overlooked it - but did you give a link for this ranking? I'd be interested to see what countries rank above the US.Bill P Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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