Favorite Movies not Written by Ayn Rand

[kiaer.ts]

I thoroughly enjoyed Michelle's thread on favorite novels not written by Ayn rand. A similar thread on movies would be nice. Here are five 1970's-ish favorites I think are underrated:

The Little Girl who Lives Down the Lane

Jodie Foster is a loner and a child genius who puts Martin Sheen in his place

Silent Running

at YouTube

The Tree Hugger Bruce Dern stands up for what he believes in

Little Big Man

Dustin Hoffman and Faye Dunaway in a poignant comedy about a survivor of Custer's Last Stand

Chitty Chitty Bang Bang

at

Dick van Dyke and Sally Ann Howes in a sense of life musical fantasy

Soylent Green

Charleton Heston in a dystopian anti-establishment sci-fi classic

[Chris Grieb]

Soylent Green is great. Little Big Man is pretentious. The others I haven't seen.

Soylent Green was Edward G Robinson's last movie.

[Reidy]

I may have plugged all of these movies at one time or another on the O-web, but I never hesitate to repeat myself.

1. Queen Christina

2. Ninotchka

(tie) Shanghai Express, Trouble in Paradise, Mata Hari (for the last few minutes)

(tie) Monte Carlo (for the Blue Horizon sequence), The Aviator, Some Like it Hot, A Night at the Opera, almost any other Garbo.

Of movies that were written AR I much prefer Love Letters to The Fountainhead.

The Shawshank Redemption often shows well in polls like this one, but I've never seen it.

[BaalChatzaf]

Soylent Green is great. Little Big Man is pretentious. The others I haven't seen.

Soylent Green was Edward G Robinson's last movie.

Robinson was dead twelve days after -Soylent Green- was in the can. No one, besides Heston knew how close Robinson was to his death. That is why the scene of Sol the Book dying ("going home") was so emotional.

I must admit, I cannot watch that scene with a dry eye.

Ba'al Chatzaf

[ginny]

My all time favorite movies are Judgment at Nuremberg and Casablanca.

I remember the first time I saw Judgment at Nuremberg. I watched as Spenser Tracy got to know the local germans and started to like and even respect them. I assumed he'd go light on the defendants. I was so upset I started screaming at the TV and throwing stuff. Then I watched as he told Maximilian Schell (actually a sympathetic character) how deep his guilt went since he was a teacher and thus had the responsibility of seeing to the development of his students' minds. Instead, he failed his students and himself.

Wow. I didn't stop crying with joy and admiration for an hour.

As for Casablanca, has anyone watched the scene where the french sing the Marselleise and outsing the Nazi singing about their beloved heimatland without bursting into applause. Every person in the cafe stood and sang at the top of his lungs in defiance. And I cry each time.

Oh, I adore anything with Fred Astaire. And of all the Fred Astaire movies, Daddy Long Legs is my favorite.

Edited June 23, 2009 by ginny

[kiaer.ts]

Does anyone know where one can come across a copy of You Came Along? Love letters is quite good, and my parents really loved watching it wioth me, enough so for my mother to recommend it to a friend. I have not been able to find You Came Along anywhere.

[Barbara Branden]

Ginny: "As for Casablanca, has anyone watched the scene where the french sing the Marselleise and outsing the Nazi singing about their beloved heimatland without bursting into applause. Every person in the cafe stood and sang at the top of his lungs in defiance. And I cry each time."

I don't think I've watched it more than twenty times.

And I agree that Judgment at Nuremburg is a superb movie. My favorite scene is the final meeting between the Spencer-Tracy American judge and the Burt -Lancaster Nazi judge. It has perhaps the most brilliant and moving line I've ever heard in a movie. The Nazi judge, hoping to win some touch of forgiveness from the American, says to him, "I didn't know it would come to this." He means that when he first began carrying out the Nazi laws he didn't imagine the horrors they would make possible. Tracy quietly replies, "The first time you sentenced to death a man you knew to be innocent -- it had come to this."

Barbara

[kiaer.ts]

Although I do see what is good in both Ninotchka and Casablanca, I can't say either is a favorite, or even close. With Casablanca my problem might be that the movie has too much reputation to live up to. I prefer the chemistry between Bogart and Baccall in To Have and Have Not. Ninotchka is too obvious, and her attraction to the unimpressive and far too metrosexual Melvyn Douglas makes no sense. I much prefer the screwball Stanwyck is a much more natural comic lead.

I think if we list our absolute favorites, we might be covering old ground. Can people recommend what they see as good but underrated movies?

Does anyone like The Secret of Santa Vittoria?

[Chris Grieb]

Ted; I like Ninotchka but I agree about Melvyn Douglas. I don't the real Ninotckha would give him the time of day.

[Selene]

Great movie - First full blown satire that I ever saw that blasted the child "protective" system.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/A_Thousand_Clowns

[ginny]

We've been listing old movies. In the more recent category, did anyone see The Pursuit of Happyness? What an incredible story. Whenever my present situation gets me down, I think of Chris Gardner being homeless and sleeping in a public mens room at the subway station and not complaining about his situation. In his book, when answering the question as to how he could have lived like that, he answers, somewhat puzzled, "But I never thought this would last."

What a man. What an attitude.

Ginny

[Reidy]

Melvyn Douglas in Ninotchka is not believable as a Frenchman, but he's otherwise the perfect foil. Ninotchka herself wouldn't have believed him as her type, and for a long time she doesn't, which is the point. He's the personification of just what she, her country and her ideology aren't. If the movie had matched her up with someone as serious and driven as she was it wouldn't have had a story to tell.

[kiaer.ts]

Melvyn Douglas in Ninotchka is not believable as a Frenchman, but he's otherwise the perfect foil. Ninotchka herself wouldn't have believed him as her type, and for a long time she doesn't, which is the point. He's the personification of just what she, her country and her ideology aren't. If the movie had matched her up with someone as serious and driven as she was it wouldn't have had a story to tell.

No, he's just not masculine enough. Spencer Tracy or Gary Cooper would have been believable.

[Michelle]

Sweet thread, Ted.

For me...

The Passion of Joan of Arc (Very intense silent film. Some guy watched it, felt inspired, and wrote music to go with it. It actually fits the action of the movie pretty well. Better than Dark Side of the Moon and The Wizard of Oz, to be sure)

Kill Bill volume one (I enjoyed it for its manic energy and tongue-in-cheek playfulness)

Rear Window (I've written much on the brilliance of this film, and will probably do so here as well. Needless to say, it is Hitchcock's best film and the greatest suspense film ever made)

Halloween (Not the sequels. Just the original. Observe modern "horror" films, which wallow in visual and narrative depravity in order to get their shocks in, and then observe this film. It is one of the scariest horror films ever made. If you watch, it is also very tame when it comes to violence. Carpenter is a magician who's tools are darkness and an uncanny perception of man's worst fears. The film is minimalistic but fully integrates all of its elements in order to develop just the right atmosphere of stark terror without using excessive violence or cheap tricks. Of course, horror has, at its core, a malevolent view of existence, and Carpenter doesn't whitewash this: the ending is perhaps one of the most hopeless and despairing I've ever seen by virtue of what it implies. Nevertheless, this is the work of a master)

Brokeback Mountain (Get past the gay cowboy thing and see this for what it really is: a somber, heartrending meditation on what happens when people allow social custom to dictate their lives. Brilliant performances turned in by Heath Ledger and Michelle Williams. Nice minimalistic soundtrack. GORGEOUS cinematography. A really, really well-made film)

Blade Runner (The perfect mixture of Noir and Science Fiction. Atmospheric as hell. The images burn themselves into your brain)

Strangers On A Train (Great thriller. Engaging, well-paced, and I love the tension between the two men)

Noir in general (Maltese Falcon, Big Combo, etc. I suppose Fritz Lang's "M" could be included here as well)

The Last Unicorn (Lovely animated fantasy classic)

Kiki's Delivery Service (Wonderful animated film about a young witch learning to stand on her own two feet by running a delivery service. Most other studio Ghibli films are also good, but I'm very fond of this one in particular)

Batman Begins (Not as action-packed as the over-hyped The Dark Knight. More of a quiet character study of Bruce Wayne. Not a fan of superhero stuff, but this was enjoyable. Also enjoyed Iron Man)

Edward Scissorhands (BEAUTIFUL soundtrack. Quirky, gothic, and very inventive)

[Barbara Branden]

Reidy: "The Shawshank Redemption often shows well in polls like this one, but I've never seen it."

Do try to see it. It's a fascinating and beautifully done film.

I very much like The Magnificent Ambersons, directed by Orson Welles. It's the film that made me understand what a great director can do. Welles gives the events a power and an emotional intensity a lesser talent could not have done. What a tragedy that his film career was cut short.

Barbara

[Chris Grieb]

Sweet thread, Ted.

For me...

The Passion of Joan of Arc (Very intense silent film. Some guy watched it, felt inspired, and wrote music to go with it. It actually fits the action of the movie pretty well. Better than Dark Side of the Moon and The Wizard of Oz, to be sure)

Kill Bill volume one (I enjoyed it for its manic energy and tongue-in-cheek playfulness)

Rear Window (I've written much on the brilliance of this film, and will probably do so here as well. Needless to say, it is Hitchcock's best film and the greatest suspense film ever made)

Halloween (Not the sequels. Just the original. Observe modern "horror" films, which wallow in visual and narrative depravity in order to get their shocks in, and then observe this film. It is one of the scariest horror films ever made. If you watch, it is also very tame when it comes to violence. Carpenter is a magician who's tools are darkness and an uncanny perception of man's worst fears. The film is minimalistic but fully integrates all of its elements in order to develop just the right atmosphere of stark terror without using excessive violence or cheap tricks. Of course, horror has, at its core, a malevolent view of existence, and Carpenter doesn't whitewash this: the ending is perhaps one of the most hopeless and despairing I've ever seen by virtue of what it implies. Nevertheless, this is the work of a master)

Brokeback Mountain (Get past the gay cowboy thing and see this for what it really is: a somber, heartrending meditation on what happens when people allow social custom to dictate their lives. Brilliant performances turned in by Heath Ledger and Michelle Williams. Nice minimalistic soundtrack. GORGEOUS cinematography. A really, really well-made film)

Blade Runner (The perfect mixture of Noir and Science Fiction. Atmospheric as hell. The images burn themselves into your brain)

Strangers On A Train (Great thriller. Engaging, well-paced, and I love the tension between the two men)

Noir in general (Maltese Falcon, Big Combo, etc. I suppose Fritz Lang's "M" could be included here as well)

The Last Unicorn (Lovely animated fantasy classic)

Kiki's Delivery Service (Wonderful animated film about a young witch learning to stand on her own two feet by running a delivery service. Most other studio Ghibli films are also good, but I'm very fond of this one in particular)

Batman Begins (Not as action-packed as the over-hyped The Dark Knight. More of a quiet character study of Bruce Wayne. Not a fan of superhero stuff, but this was enjoyable. Also enjoyed Iron Man)

Edward Scissorhands (BEAUTIFUL soundtrack. Quirky, gothic, and very inventive)

Michelle; Miss Rand spoke highly of Fritz Lang.

TCM showed a lot of Hitchcock yesterday but sadly did not show Rear Window or Shadow of a Doubt.

I agree with you about Batman Begins. I also think you have caught why Brokeback is such a good movie.

[Michelle]

Sweet thread, Ted.

For me...

The Passion of Joan of Arc (Very intense silent film. Some guy watched it, felt inspired, and wrote music to go with it. It actually fits the action of the movie pretty well. Better than Dark Side of the Moon and The Wizard of Oz, to be sure)

Kill Bill volume one (I enjoyed it for its manic energy and tongue-in-cheek playfulness)

Rear Window (I've written much on the brilliance of this film, and will probably do so here as well. Needless to say, it is Hitchcock's best film and the greatest suspense film ever made)

Halloween (Not the sequels. Just the original. Observe modern "horror" films, which wallow in visual and narrative depravity in order to get their shocks in, and then observe this film. It is one of the scariest horror films ever made. If you watch, it is also very tame when it comes to violence. Carpenter is a magician who's tools are darkness and an uncanny perception of man's worst fears. The film is minimalistic but fully integrates all of its elements in order to develop just the right atmosphere of stark terror without using excessive violence or cheap tricks. Of course, horror has, at its core, a malevolent view of existence, and Carpenter doesn't whitewash this: the ending is perhaps one of the most hopeless and despairing I've ever seen by virtue of what it implies. Nevertheless, this is the work of a master)

Brokeback Mountain (Get past the gay cowboy thing and see this for what it really is: a somber, heartrending meditation on what happens when people allow social custom to dictate their lives. Brilliant performances turned in by Heath Ledger and Michelle Williams. Nice minimalistic soundtrack. GORGEOUS cinematography. A really, really well-made film)

Blade Runner (The perfect mixture of Noir and Science Fiction. Atmospheric as hell. The images burn themselves into your brain)

Strangers On A Train (Great thriller. Engaging, well-paced, and I love the tension between the two men)

Noir in general (Maltese Falcon, Big Combo, etc. I suppose Fritz Lang's "M" could be included here as well)

The Last Unicorn (Lovely animated fantasy classic)

Kiki's Delivery Service (Wonderful animated film about a young witch learning to stand on her own two feet by running a delivery service. Most other studio Ghibli films are also good, but I'm very fond of this one in particular)

Batman Begins (Not as action-packed as the over-hyped The Dark Knight. More of a quiet character study of Bruce Wayne. Not a fan of superhero stuff, but this was enjoyable. Also enjoyed Iron Man)

Edward Scissorhands (BEAUTIFUL soundtrack. Quirky, gothic, and very inventive)

Michelle; Miss Rand spoke highly of Fritz Lang.

TCM showed a lot of Hitchcock yesterday but sadly did not show Rear Window or Shadow of a Doubt.

I agree with you about Batman Begins. I also think you have caught why Brokeback is such a good movie.

I could see her enjoying his Metropolis.

He was a master of his craft, and one of the leading lights of german cinema. He contributed greatly to the expressionist movement as well, which casts a great shadow over modern American cinema. Burton's films, in particular. Watch Edward Scissorhands or his Batman films (hate the stories in his Batman series, personally, but they're gorgeous to look at). Nightmare Before Christmas and Corpse Bride as well. Hell, I'd even list Pee-Wee's Playhouse for TV, with its twisted and deformed child world.

Modern suspense is so dull that the pacing of Rear Window might throw people off. It isn't a quick film. You're essentially forced to identify with the hero, who has been injured and so spends his recovery time at his bedroom window spying on the neighbors. You feel his sense of wonder when he see what he thinks is a murder, his sense of adventure when he tries to piece together the clues without ever leaving his bedroom to do so, and his profound sense of horror when he realizes that someone dangerous has caught on to his game. The movie is claustrophobic as hell. Most of the film is fairly leisurely paced, but the atmosphere developed pays off during the climax.

Edited June 28, 2009 by Michelle R

[kiaer.ts]

Last night I watched The 39 Steps (Hitchcock) and Touch of Evil (Welles) with my parents. Both films are excellent.

I am sorry, but Brokeback Mountain was laughable. It was like The Color Purple (itself a horrendously maudlin movie, watch the "

" if you don't believe me) for shy gay men, overblown, pretentious, melodramatic, a straight girl's fantasy version of what it's like to come out for sympatheic viewers who want to see sanitized victims who meet their preconceptions. I couldn't watch more than 30 minutes of this movie, the puppy dog eyes, the ack-sints, oh god what a patronizing howler!

[Michelle]

Last night I watched The 39 Steps (Hitchcock) and Touch of Evil (Welles) with my parents. Both films are excellent.

I am sorry, but Brokeback Mountain was laughable. It was like The Color Purple (itself a horrendously maudlin movie, watch the "

" if you don't believe me) for shy gay men, overblown, pretentious, melodramatic, a straight girl's fantasy version of what it's like to come out for sympatheic viewers who want to see sanitized victims who meet their preconceptions. I couldn't watch more than 30 minutes of this movie, the puppy dog eyes, the ack-sints, oh god what a patronizing howler!

Never was a fan of The Color Purple.

Brokeback Mountain is certainly not about 'gay victims.' The two men are only victims to the degree that they victimize themselves. If anything, the innocent victims are the families of the two men who must deal with the emotional fallout of what happens.

Saying it is "overblown, pretentious, [and] melodramatic" is merely listing words, not criticisms. What is overblown, pretentious (a label I believe to be complete rubbish which distracts from the vital considerations of the importance of a thing, and is completely devoid of meaning), and melodramatic about it?

What, specifically, is wrong with the first thirty minutes of the film?

Edited June 28, 2009 by Michelle R

[kiaer.ts]

Last night I watched The 39 Steps (Hitchcock) and Touch of Evil (Welles) with my parents. Both films are excellent.

I am sorry, but Brokeback Mountain was laughable. It was like The Color Purple (itself a horrendously maudlin movie, watch the "

" if you don't believe me) for shy gay men, overblown, pretentious, melodramatic, a straight girl's fantasy version of what it's like to come out for sympatheic viewers who want to see sanitized victims who meet their preconceptions. I couldn't watch more than 30 minutes of this movie, the puppy dog eyes, the ack-sints, oh god what a patronizing howler!

Never was a fan of The Color Purple.

Brokeback Mountain is certainly not about 'gay victims.' The two men are only victims to the degree that they victimize themselves.

What other kinds of victims are there?

Saying it is "overblown, pretentious, [and] melodramatic" is merely listing words, not criticisms. What is overblown, pretentious (a label I believe to be complete rubbish which distracts from the vital considerations of the importance of a thing, and is completely devoid of meaning), and melodramatic about it?

What, specifically, is wrong with the first thirty minutes of the film?

Oh god, I'm certainly not going to sit and watch that film again in order to properly review it. I've seen death, murder, AIDS, children thrown out of their homes, gay bashers, bashing of gay bahsers, and a hell of a lot more. Brokeback Mountain is a patronizing look at "gay" men that will apeal to straight women. It succeeded on that basis. It's also laughable, in the way that the remake of Shaft, which "portrays" life on 138th street in the South Bronx (where I lived for six years) is laughable. You want to watch a good entertaining "gay" movie version of Thelma and Louise? Watch The Living End. You want to see reality? I would suggest watching Paris is Burning instead. These are not films made to make gays look good and sympathetic to straight people.

[Xray]

Rear Window (I've written much on the brilliance of this film, and will probably do so here as well. Needless to say, it is Hitchcock's best film and the greatest suspense film ever made)

That Rear Window is "the greatest suspense film ever made" is of course a subjecive value judgement on your part. ;)

But no doubt there is breathtaking suspense in RW. Just think of the scene where Lisa (Grace Kelly) is in Thorwald's apartment. Or when Thorwald comes over and James Stewart has no other "weapon" but too shoot his flashlights at him.

But I find several other Hitchcock movies at least as suspenseful, e. g. Dial 'M' for Murder. Or Strangers on a Train. North by Northwest (one of my favorite Hitchcock movies) is also a film where the theme of suspense is all-present and played out in fast-paced, breathtaking scenes. I never tire of reviewing it.

Strangers On A Train (Great thriller. Engaging, well-paced, and I love the tension between the two men)

One of Hitchcock's best imo.

"Citizen Kane" is another of my favorite films. A work of pure genius imo.

Edited June 28, 2009 by Xray

[Selene]

Damn - now I have to take all those x-ray films off my top 200 list.

But seriously, Rear Window was masterful. Any of the "play" mediums that successfully transfer to movies is great.

Twelve Angry Men

Inherit the Wind

Adam

[Michelle]

What other kinds of victims are there?

People victimized by others. Obviously.

Oh god, I'm certainly not going to sit and watch that film again in order to properly review it. I've seen death, murder, AIDS, children thrown out of their homes, gay bashers, bashing of gay bahsers, and a hell of a lot more. Brokeback Mountain is a patronizing look at "gay" men that will apeal to straight women. It succeeded on that basis. It's also laughable, in the way that the remake of Shaft, which "portrays" life on 138th street in the South Bronx (where I lived for six years) is laughable. You want to watch a good entertaining "gay" movie version of Thelma and Louise? Watch The Living End. You want to see reality? I would suggest watching Paris is Burning instead. These are not films made to make gays look good and sympathetic to straight people.

OK... I've seen death, AIDS, children thrown out of their homes, gay bashers, bashing of gay bashers, and a hell of a lot more as well. I've known friends who were murdered and who died by AIDS, and have had more than a few brushes with the criminally insane. Is there a reason we're making these lists?

Brokeback Mountain is no more a 'gay movie' than Romeo and Juliet was a play about the conflicts between two upper-class English families. It makes no attempt at analyzing gay life beyond the immediate necessities of the plot. It is not about 'gay people' in any thematic sense. Homosexuality, still being socially taboo in several parts of America, allows the theme of people letting society's demands destroy their lives (which is what the movie is about) to stand out. It wouldn't have been as effective if an interracial conflict or a conflict of differing religions was used.

It isn't trying to make gay people seem 'good and sympathetic' or portray the gritty realities of life in that era. If anything, both of the main characters come off rather badly in the film, devolving into hatred and making life miserable for their wives and children. You wouldn't know this, of course, as you only watched the first thirty minutes of a two hour and fourteen minute movie. I fail to see how adding poppers and AIDS to the movie would have improved it.

Look, if you don't like it, that's fine, but you're not going to have an accurate perspective on a movie you've not even watched half of.

Edited June 28, 2009 by Michelle R

[Selene]

Stanley Kubrick's first movie:

Paths of Glory

The book had no title when it was finished, so the publisher held a contest. The winning entry came from the ninth stanza of the famous Thomas Gray poem "Elegy Written in a Country Church-yard."[2]

The boast of heraldry, the pomp of pow’r,

And all that beauty, all that wealth e’er gave,

Awaits alike th’inevitable hour.

The paths of glory lead but to the grave.

Brutal story of the Anthill WWI and the execution of three men "randomly" selected for cowardice.

Kirk Douglas

Adolphe Menjou

Ralph Meeker

"The novel was about the French execution of innocent men to frighten others in their resolve to fight. The French Army did certainly carry out military executions for cowardice as did all the other major participants. However the central plank of the film is the practice of selecting individuals at random and executing them as a punishment for the sins of the whole group. This is similar to Decimation, and while it was employed by the Romans, it was rarely used by the French Army in World War I. Little known is the French decimation (the shooting of every tenth person in a unit) of the 10e Compagnie of 8 Battalion of the Régiment Mixte de Tirailleurs Algériens. During the retreat at the beginning of the war these French-African soldiers refused an order to attack. They were shot on the 15th of December 1914 near Zillebeeke in Flanders.

Production took place entirely in Bavaria, Germany, especially at the Schleissheim Palace near Munich.

The only female character in the film, the waif who sings "The Faithful Hussar," was portrayed by German actress Christiane Harlan (credited in the film as Susanne Christian). She later married director Stanley Kubrick, and the couple remained married until his death in 1999." Wiki

[Michelle]

Rear Window (I've written much on the brilliance of this film, and will probably do so here as well. Needless to say, it is Hitchcock's best film and the greatest suspense film ever made)

That Rear Window is "the greatest suspense film ever made" is of course a subjecive value judgement on your part. ;)

But no doubt there is breathtaking suspense in RW. Just think of the scene where Lisa (Grace Kelly) is in Thorwald's apartment. Or when Thorwald comes over and James Stewart has no other "weapon" but too shoot his flashlights at him.

But I find several other Hitchcock movies at least as suspenseful, e. g. Dial 'M' for Murder. Or Strangers on a Train. North by Northwest (one of my favorite Hitchcock movies) is also a film where the theme of suspense is all-present and played out in fast-paced, breathtaking scenes. I never tire of reviewing it.

Strangers On A Train (Great thriller. Engaging, well-paced, and I love the tension between the two men)

One of Hitchcock's best imo.

"Citizen Kane" is another of my favorite films. A work of pure genius imo.

Of course it is my subjective value judgment. Nothing is written in the heavens declaring that Rear Window is the world's greatest suspense film. And you forget that I'm not an Objectivist. Still, nothing else I've seen can compare to it.

The most brilliant and suspenseful scene in the movie is when Jeff (and, consequently, the viewer) watches helplessly as Thorwald makes his way into the apartment while Lisa is still in it. The second best, I think, is the expanse of silence which elapses, after Thorwald has made his way into the building. That, and the build-up to the door slowly opening is absolutely horrifying, as the viewer feels as powerless as Jeff does. Identifying with Jeff, we become paralyzed and defenseless.

I remember North by Northwest boring me. It is regarded as one of Hitchcock's best films, though. I should rewatch it.

I have no desire to rewatch Vertigo, though. What a disappointment.

Citizen Kane. What a godawful boring film. It took me two tries to make it all the way through. Just slightly less painful than The Godfather and LOTR trilogies.

I will admit the effectiveness of the scenes where Charles Foster Kane (I believe that was his name, been many years since I last saw it) wanders like a ghost through his huge mansion, though. Wealth divorced from values is worthless.

Edited June 29, 2009 by Michelle R