Nathaniel's lectures on Basic Principles of Objectivism

[Chris Grieb]

While some of the Founders became or were rich several of them died in poverty and at least one watched in home being destroyed during the siege of Yorktown. If anyone can provide the name of this gentleman it would be appreciated.

[Jerry Biggers]

I want to add a few thoughts regarding the forthcoming publication of Nathaniel Branden's BASIC PRINCIPLES OF OBJECTIVISM (toward which, I was able to contribute five transcriptions). Obviously, the major contributions were made by Roger Bissell, who coordinated this project and transcribed at least 10 - 12 of the lectures. AND, Robert Campbell who also transcribed a substantial number of lectures.

I can definitely testify that transcription of these lectures was not an easy task (at least for me). However,I do not regard participation in this project as a qualification for possible entry for the "Gerald Starnes Award For Selfless Service." (First of all, the current frontrunners for that particular "honor," would have to be Barack Obama and John McCain). And secondly, I have been hoping for these lectures to be published in book format since NBI closed (do the math). so I regard it as almost.... (dare I say it?) an ethical "duty." Well, O.K., at least an honorable productive endeavor.

But I digress. The plan, as I understand it, is for the lectures to be published verbatim, with no updating of the many references to political events or persons from the mid-twentieth century, which may not be familiar to readers in the twenty-first century. I agree that the texts should not be changed. However, it should at least be thoroughly annotated with explanations of the context referred to, and citing current examples of the same issues or principles.

One brief example should suffice (though there are many others): In the lecture, "Common Fallacies About Capitalism" in the section discussing inherited wealth, in attempting to illustrate a point he has just made, Branden makes an aside comment that is a deservedly sarcastic criticism of an un-named " Governor...." (readers from the 1960s would instantly realize that he was referring to Nelson Rockefeller). It is unlikely that current readers who had not lived through the 1960's would "get it."

Finally, in addition to a usable Index, the book needs an Annotated Bibliography as an Appendix.

Now, who should do these duties (er, "tasks") If Nathaniel does not have the time or inclination to do it, there are many other candidates with the required knowledge. I would suggest Roger Bissell, Robert Campbell, and/or Chris Sciabarra.

Comments?

[Michael Stuart Kelly]

So you guys don't think your performance of historical duty (finally some one lived up to it!) and self-sacrifice is a good role model for the rest of us?

(Gotcha!)

Michael

[Jerry Biggers]

So you guys don't think your performance of historical duty (finally some one lived up to it!) and self-sacrifice is a good role model for the rest of us?

RE-EDITED:

Well, we all know two guys who would love to instruct us on how to leave our evil selfish ways to work on their many "social service projects" -

How do we explain the quintessential cascade of Altruist proposals erupting from both McCain and Obama in their campaign appearances? It is true, of course, that virtually all successful politicians , currently and in the past, have found it necessary to mouth collectivist and altruist slogans, in order to get elected. But Obama's speeches are really examples of a new aggressive, "In-Your-Face Altruism" (see for example - if you can stomach it - his repetitive use of phrases such as, "We ARE Our Brother's Keepers" Further mind-numbing examples are on the website of his supporters and repeated ad infinitum, ad nauseum, on CNN and MSNBC).

Or McCain's gushy GOP acceptance speech, who - if anything - outdid Obama in extolling the virtues of self-sacrifice, the evils of self-interest, and the joy of self-renouncement to serve others. McCain came very close to thanking the communist North Vietnamese for torturing him into giving up his sense of self-importance. If you did not see him deliver his speech on TV, I'm sure that you can find it all over the web. Be sure to have a barf bag readily accessible.

Is it possible that McCain and Obama (or their speech writers) actually read Ayn Rand, and thought that the figures that they would really like to emulate were Ellsworth Toohey, Balph Eubank, the Stearns family, etc.? Probably not, but sometimes they sure sound like they are using the Randian villains as their role models. And trying to outdo them.

Finally, and quite morosely, the themes, directions, personalities, and proposals of this current Presidential campaign, remind me of issues brought up in an earlier discussion thread in this forum on Ayn Rand's "positive" influence over the fifty years since A.S. was published. My feeling now, is that the spread and effect on the culture of Ayn Rand's ideas after 50 years, is so minimal as to be virtually invisible. Objectivism should have at least shown some presence on the political national field by now, but I see nothing substantial. I regret to say that we are mostly just talking to ourselves. Outside of our websites and a few publications, I have seen no criticism of McCain/Obama's ethical views.

(Gotcha!)

Michael

Edited September 6, 2008 by Jerry Biggers

[Robert Campbell]

Jerry

For the record, I ended up doing much less transcribing than initially planned. In part, because Roger was always champing at the bit to do more

I agree with you about the annotating. I'll be happy to contribute to that, if asked; I did a lot of it when I translated Jean Piaget.

In the lecture on the psychology of sex, Nathaniel refers to Betty Grable. I know who she was, and have seen her once-ubiquitous pinup photo, but have never seen one Betty Grable movie. Younger readers can be pardoned for never having heard of her.

Robert Campbell

[Chris Grieb]

Robert; The mention of the Betty Grable should probably be explained. Every so often TCM does one of her movies and looking at them it is hard to see what the big deal was. Yet for a huge number of men in our father's generation she was what they were fighting for.

[Roger Bissell]

Question to the group: what do you think about the idea of ~two~ books on Basic Principles of Objectivism: one that is almost entirely the text of the lectures, with a very minimal context-setting introduction and afterword -- and one that is more of an exploration by Nathaniel of his further thoughts, misgivings, clarifications, etc.?

Please feel free to respond on this thread or by a private email to me at rebissell AT aol DOT com. I will pass along your comments and suggestions to Nathaniel.

Thanks!

REB

[Brant Gaede]

Question to the group: what do you think about the idea of ~two~ books on Basic Principles of Objectivism: one that is almost entirely the text of the lectures, with a very minimal context-setting introduction and afterword -- and one that is more of an exploration by Nathaniel of his further thoughts, misgivings, clarifications, etc.?

Please feel free to respond on this thread or by a private email to me at rebissell AT aol DOT com. I will pass along your comments and suggestions to Nathaniel.

Thanks!

REB

I think an afterword to each chapter plus an Introduction.

--Brant

[Alfonso Jones]

Question to the group: what do you think about the idea of ~two~ books on Basic Principles of Objectivism: one that is almost entirely the text of the lectures, with a very minimal context-setting introduction and afterword -- and one that is more of an exploration by Nathaniel of his further thoughts, misgivings, clarifications, etc.?

Please feel free to respond on this thread or by a private email to me at rebissell AT aol DOT com. I will pass along your comments and suggestions to Nathaniel.

Thanks!

REB

I am in favor of BOTH:

1) The one which is basically the text of the lectures, with footnotes, introduction and afterword used to provide context. Not rewriting anything.

AND

2) The second book ALSO - which is "reflections 40 years later..."

Bill P (Alfonso)

[Chris Grieb]

I think the lectures should come in their original forum as quickly as possible.

I think that this book could include reflections forty years after as an afterword.

The bulk of this book should be the original lectures with footnotes like Betty Grable and a relatively short after word.

[emb021]

I think the lectures should come in their original forum as quickly as possible.

I think that this book could include reflections forty years after as an afterword.

The bulk of this book should be the original lectures with footnotes like Betty Grable and a relatively short after word.

I'd go for that.

[Brant Gaede]

I think the lectures should come in their original forum as quickly as possible.

I think that this book could include reflections forty years after as an afterword.

The bulk of this book should be the original lectures with footnotes like Betty Grable and a relatively short after word.

I'd go for that.

A picture of Betty?

--Brant

[Chris Grieb]

Pictures would make the book more expensive. Direct the people to their attic where they would find one of their father's scrapbooks or a good illustrated cultural history of WW2.

[Reidy]

That would be grandfather for most OLs.

[Chris Grieb]

Reidy; That is true.

[emb021]

Here someone is putting up for bid a complete set of the Lectures on records on ebay for $400: http://cgi.ebay.com/1968-AYN-RAND-PHILOSOP...1QQcmdZViewItem

[Brant Gaede]

Here someone is putting up for bid a complete set of the Lectures on records on ebay for $400: http://cgi.ebay.com/1968-AYN-RAND-PHILOSOP...1QQcmdZViewItem

Somebody might buy the tapes or CDs, but not for $400. I don't think they'll sell. Records take up too much space unless they are music and you like vinyl.

--Brant

[Dragonfly]

Here someone is putting up for bid a complete set of the Lectures on records on ebay for $400: http://cgi.ebay.com/1968-AYN-RAND-PHILOSOP...1QQcmdZViewItem

Somebody might buy the tapes or CDs, but not for $400. I don't think they'll sell. Records take up too much space unless they are music and you like vinyl.

Perhaps they are a collectors item?

[Robert Campbell]

I recall that a set of Basic Principles of Objectivism on records was up for sale on eBay a couple of years ago. I bid on it but didn't win. The winning bid was around $140.

I still play LPs... but I'm also getting ready to sell some of mine. They do take up a lot of space.

Robert Campbell

[Jerry Biggers]

To those interested, this set of lectures has been announced for PRINT publication (expected release date, September 2009) by the International Society for Individual Liberty, through their book outlet, Laissez Faire Books.

See the separate topic, BASIC PRINCIPLES BOOK ANNOUNCED, elsewhere in the "Nathaniel Branden Corner" of OL.

[Christopher]

I recall that a set of Basic Principles of Objectivism on records was up for sale on eBay a couple of years ago. I bid on it but didn't win. The winning bid was around $140.

I still play LPs... but I'm also getting ready to sell some of mine. They do take up a lot of space.

Robert Campbell

Hey Roger,

I think I beat you on that ebay bid. I won the LPs plus some additional LPs by Branden on Psychology Q&A.

Chris

[Jerry Biggers]

I recall that a set of Basic Principles of Objectivism on records was up for sale on eBay a couple of years ago. I bid on it but didn't win. The winning bid was around $140.

I still play LPs... but I'm also getting ready to sell some of mine. They do take up a lot of space.

Robert Campbell

Hey Roger,

I think I beat you on that ebay bid. I won the LPs plus some additional LPs by Branden on Psychology Q&A.

Chris

Christopher,

Heh,.... OK, I'll see you the complete LP set of BASIC PRINCIPLES, ..andraise you the complete 48 LP set of Branden's SEMINAR series (also won on eBay).. and did I forget to mention Peikoff's 12 lecture "Philosophy of Objectivism," and the complete sets of Peikoff's "History of Western Philosophy" (also eBay wins) ?

Just messin' with you! ;)

Edited July 22, 2009 by Jerry Biggers

[anonrobt]

I still have The Psychology of Romantic Love records along with a couple of seminar ones and Rand reading her short story...

[Starbuckle]

I still have The Psychology of Romantic Love records along with a couple of seminar ones and Rand reading her short story...

That's nothing. I have the entire series of the 1968 breakup, including LP recordings of all the dialogue of all the principals. Won it on eBay.

[Selene]

I still have The Psychology of Romantic Love records along with a couple of seminar ones and Rand reading her short story...

That's nothing. I have the entire series of the 1968 breakup, including LP recordings of all the dialogue of all the principals. Won it on eBay.

Shamus:

Top of the morning to you. Welcome aboard.

Now that is a series worth reproducing! lol

Are you a student? Working slave for O'biwan?

Adam