RANT: I am sick and tired of being honest.

[algernonsidney]

At about 2pm yesterday afternoon, I pulled up to the gate in my neighborhood. I got a little too close and waited for the gate to open. Then, for some reason, I just let my foot off the brake. The car went into the gate. The gate opened enough for cars to get through, but was clearly stuck.

I pulled through and parked in the driveway of my condo, about 100 yards away. The temperature was over 100, and I had some turkey in the car. I went inside and placed the turkey in the refrigerator. Then, I walked back to the gate and looked around.

I knocked on the door that was closest the gate--there was no answer. I knocked on the door of another condo that was close by. A man answered. I told him what had happened and asked him if he was "in charge" of the gate. He told me to go to the condo by the pool. I went there and found the president of the neighborhood association.

I apologized. He told me that it happens "all the time." Apparently, however, I was the only person who had actually informed him of the accident though. It sounds like most people just hit and run. I gave him my name and my cell phone number. I was ready to pay whatever damages if necessary.

As I walked back to my condo, I started to get angry. I was mad at myself for the accident which I had caused. I was mad for another reason, too. I just said to myself: "I am sick and tired of being honest."

For me, reporting an accident that I had caused was an automatic reaction. I didn't even think about it. It was the right thing to do. It is how I would want people to behave if it had happened to me. My car did get hit by someone that we never found once.

The brutal truth is that this honesty has gotten me nothing in life. At the age of 40, I am still single with no kids. I also loathe my career. I make about enough money to support myself, and that's it. I do have a decent savings. Really, the two most important things in my life both totally suck.

What has this kind of honesty gotten me? It has gotten me absolutely nothing in my life. I look at honest and just say: "What's the point?" Why should I keep being honest? What has honesty ever done for me?

[anthony]

You tried lying?

No, really, I think it's crass of me to be amused at anything so heartfelt, but for a while there in your tale, I saw Michael Douglas about to go on his rampage. ("Falling Down" was it?)

Chris, don't we all go through similar, hitting the wall, on a regular basis?

And 40, and presumably healthy, is not going to tug my strings overmuch.

What's the rush - who's timetable?

Also, how honest? I have to ask; and even then, if you go on not 'faking reality' the best you can, the money and the good woman will follow. (Or, vice-versa.)

Easy does it, and have a laugh!

Tony

[Brant Gaede]

At about 2pm yesterday afternoon, I pulled up to the gate in my neighborhood. I got a little too close and waited for the gate to open. Then, for some reason, I just let my foot off the brake. The car went into the gate. The gate opened enough for cars to get through, but was clearly stuck.

I pulled through and parked in the driveway of my condo, about 100 yards away. The temperature was over 100, and I had some turkey in the car. I went inside and placed the turkey in the refrigerator. Then, I walked back to the gate and looked around.

I knocked on the door that was closest the gate--there was no answer. I knocked on the door of another condo that was close by. A man answered. I told him what had happened and asked him if he was "in charge" of the gate. He told me to go to the condo by the pool. I went there and found the president of the neighborhood association.

I apologized. He told me that it happens "all the time." Apparently, however, I was the only person who had actually informed him of the accident though. It sounds like most people just hit and run. I gave him my name and my cell phone number. I was ready to pay whatever damages if necessary.

As I walked back to my condo, I started to get angry. I was mad at myself for the accident which I had caused. I was mad for another reason, too. I just said to myself: "I am sick and tired of being honest."

For me, reporting an accident that I had caused was an automatic reaction. I didn't even think about it. It was the right thing to do. It is how I would want people to behave if it had happened to me. My car did get hit by someone that we never found once.

The brutal truth is that this honesty has gotten me nothing in life. At the age of 40, I am still single with no kids. I also loathe my career. I make about enough money to support myself, and that's it. I do have a decent savings. Really, the two most important things in my life both totally suck.

What has this kind of honesty gotten me? It has gotten me absolutely nothing in my life. I look at honest and just say: "What's the point?" Why should I keep being honest? What has honesty ever done for me?

All your "honesty" seems to be how you comport yourself respecting others. How honest have you been to yourself? I mean, who and what are you really mad at? If others have power over you, you become their victim. If you don't have power over yourself you are your own victim. Regardless of who is whose victim if you don't get off this victimhood horse you are riding to your next birthday even more bitter than you are now. When I at 67 read someone all but complaining his life is all but over at 40, I'm tempted to ask what disease and tyranny is being visited upon this poor soul? And I cannot be sorry for an American male who doesn't need Viagra. You need to regroup and get back into the fight knowing that no light at the end of the tunnel only means there's not a train bearing down on you, not that there is no end.

--Brant

Edited July 5, 2011 by Brant Gaede

[PDS]

No offense, but aren't these the kinds of feelings best left unshared?

I recommend that you get yourself a journal, start using it, and keep such thoughts private.

[Selene]

Chris:

Out of curiosity, what brings you joy?

Adam

[Brant Gaede]

No offense, but aren't these the kinds of feelings best left unshared?

I recommend that you get yourself a journal, start using it, and keep such thoughts private.

I'm not disagreeing with you, but what is your reasoning?

--Brant

the journal is a good idea, but how would you have known to tell him if he'd done "best"?

[caroljane]

Chris, you did post this as a rant, and I hope you feel better. You are an intelligent man who cannot really be angry at your own good qualities, such as honesty. Your anger seems to be at the world and at dishonest people who sideswipe people's cars without reparation, yet might have families and jobs they like. The undeserved happiness of others is hard to bear; and the prevalence of hit-and-run, and of people with kids who appear to like their jobs, has led you to think that there's a correlation there, but when you cool down you know that isn't so. There's no way for me to know, of course, but don't think you have missed out on children or career satisfaction because you are honest. You would probably be even unhappier if you were dishonest. I know good people who are in your situation, and the reason for them is, , bad luck. Pure, simple, stupid blind bad luck.

[Xray]

Chris,

I have the impression that the deeper issue is not about honesty and your relationship to it, but about a general feeling of frustration on your part about your life situation.

The 'gate accident' was merely a trigger unleashing all that which been brewing inside you.

As for the gate accident, it is perfectly normal to be somewhat angry at oneself if one's own inattention has caused damage.

But when, after letting off some steam here, , you look at it from a more objective perspective: No one got physcially harmed, and this is the most important thing when it comes to accidents. Now compare your gate accident to the tragedy of a person who pulls backward out of the garage, overlooks a playing child and runs it over, severely injuring or even killing it. What is a stuck gate in comparison to that? Stuck gates can be repaired.

If you try to keep things in perspective, you won't get nearly as upset over things which happen to us all the time but don't cause major harm.

For me, reporting an accident that I had caused was an automatic reaction. I didn't even think about it. It was the right thing to do. It is how I would want people to behave if it had happened to me.

As for your being honest about reporting the accident, it was indeed the correct, rational and responsible thing to do.

In reporting the accident you have conveyed to the other person that you are a responsible person.

Using the Golden Rule (as you have done) nearly always leads to rational, empathetic and responsible decisions.

Now to your general situation: are a you even aware how rich you are, Chris? You say you loathe your job but at leat you have a job, unlike the millons who are jobless and have hungry mouths to feed at home. You also have savings, unlike the millons who don't even have enough to get them through the day. Or are up to their ears in debt.

When you want warm water, you just open the faucet and it pours out. Unlike you, millions have to walk miles and miles to get their water form dirty wells.

We all bathe in luxury compared to these other people.

Life owes us nothing. We just happened to be born into wealthy countries. It was not our doing. While we whine because we don't have this or that, millions of others would consider themselves lucky to have what we take for granted.

Often after a real tragedy has struck people's lives, the realize how lucky they had been before.

So maybe it helps you to see the glass half full instead of half empty. If you don't like your job, is there anything you can do about it? Is it the job as such, or is it the atmosphere in which you work that you loathe?

As for being single with no kids - again, there's always two sides of the coin.

As a single person with no children for example, you enjoy considerable more freedom.

We all look for togetherness with the love of our life, but look at the high divorce rates and the many who live in complicated relationships.

Don't lose heart and hope, Chris. Try to think of the good things in your life and what you can give (I don't mean material things). There can be considerable joy in giving: A friendly smile for example, or being considerate and polite. All that can make a lot of difference. And it will make you feel good about yourself.

I just saw Adam (Selene) has asked you an important question:

Chris:

Out of curiosity, what brings you joy?

Adam

Edited July 5, 2011 by Xray

[algernonsidney]

And I cannot be sorry for an American male who doesn't need Viagra. You need to regroup and get back into the fight knowing that no light at the end of the tunnel only means there's not a train bearing down on you, not that there is no end.

I am not taking Viagra. However, I do take a supplement called Tribosten, which does increase my testosterone levels. It's not cheap, but worth every penny. About a month ago, I told a trainer that I suspected that my testosterone was low. I have not had it tested. But Tribosten is one of the very few supplements in which I have immediately noticed a difference.

[Xray]

No offense, but aren't these the kinds of feelings best left unshared?

I recommend that you get yourself a journal, start using it, and keep such thoughts private.

When I think about some other things people have shared here on OL, what Chris wrote is comparatively mild. ;)

Edited July 5, 2011 by Xray

[Michael Stuart Kelly]

Chris,

I got to this point once. Actually I went much further and it wasn't pretty.

I checked out.

Then, during my bad days, I encountered a guy who didn't belong on the dark side (sort of like me). He told me a thought he called oriental wisdom. I never found out if it really is oriental, though. To be honest, I never looked too hard to source it. But, from what I have lived and observed in others, the idea is true and cuts deep. It goes like this.

If a person is honest only part of the time and about little things, you don't have to worry when he is dishonest. He will reflect his nature and only be dishonest part of the time and about little things. The real trouble happens when a totally honest person turns. This one knows no limits and is very dangerous.

Yup. That was me for a while. Trouble. Bad news.

I did some terrible things, but at least I was never mean on purpose. I wasn't into making others suffer. I just didn't trust anyone and didn't give a damn. Worse. I judged all people to be hypocrites. This gave me justification for my bad acts, but it also made me miserable.

I eventually turned back.

On one lonely frustrating night when I was particularly bitter, I decided I was sick of it all. I thought if I wanted to change the world, I had to start by changing myself--changing my very will, and see if that worked.

That really sucked big time, but I felt I had to do it.

So I checked back in.

Fast forward to now. I can report that, despite the difficulty of traveling that path--and believe me, it's not been a bed of roses, I've never regretted that decision. Many good things, including Kat in my life, came from it. Now, I may not be changing the entire world, but I am helping to change a small part of it for the better. And, from where I sit, that's not so bad. It feels good, actually.

I don't know if my sketchily told experience resonates with you. If it doesn't, that's OK. But there it is anyway. Maybe you need a journey like that to get perspective. (Mine was one hell of a ride, but it was very painful.) Or maybe you need something else.

Whatever it is, I hope you find it.

I hope you feel better.

Michael

[caroljane]

No offense, but aren't these the kinds of feelings best left unshared?

I recommend that you get yourself a journal, start using it, and keep such thoughts private.

When I think about some other things people have shared here on OL, what Chris wrote is comparatively mild. ;)

Amen, X! Part of the fascination of OL.

You and I have a similar take on Chris's feelings which he has shared and their root causes. Of course the comparative wealth and freedom we have is something to be deeply grateful for, when we think of those who don't have it.

But when you're depressed, as Chris seems to be, the misery of others just makes you feel worse. ("I have all this, and I'm feeling sorry for myself? I can't take the simplest steps to make things better...I'm a pathetic useless human being"...etc) The worst of depression is that the sufferer is so entirely selfish, in the sense of feeling helpless to connect with the world in any rational way, and of being entirely alone with insoluble problems. It could be that low testosterone levels contribute to depression in men...might be an easily righted condition.

[sjw]

I think your rant is probably the tip of the iceberg, and that there are two issues here.

1. The injustices that run amok in this culture are not your fault, but when you do things like be honest about hitting a gate, where many before you did not, then maybe you'll end up paying for everyone's damage. This is unfair. There is no way to be happy about that. It's not your fault, but you are suffering for injustice. And this kind of injustice is multiplied thousands of times for all the petty evils so many people indulge in; it's death by a thousand cuts. Further, it is just generally disheartening to know that you're in the minority of being honest about things like this.

At least with this gate incident you actually did do something stupid, but there were probably a thousand other similar issues where you got burned and it wasn't necessarily your fault. How to deal with this as a rational, principled person? That's a very complex question. It is akin to asking how Galileo should have dealt with risking imprisonment (or worse) for being honest about his scientific research.

2. I am going to guess that you put too much faith in the Objectivist philosophy. Rand was an unreliable philosopher, and if you trust her too much you will suffer more than you would otherwise. I think you saying "I'm tired of being honest" is a way of saying "my belief system doesn't work." That may very well be the case to a significant extent.

Shayne

[caroljane]

And this kind of injustice is multiplied thousands of times for all the petty evils so many people indulge in; it's death by a thousand cuts. Further, it is just generally disheartening to know that you're in the minority of being honest about things like this

Shayne

Shayne, underlying your statement here seems to be a belief that "the majority of people are dishonest about things like this" - or maybe dishonest in general, when they can get away with it.

Is my inference correct?

[sjw]

And this kind of injustice is multiplied thousands of times for all the petty evils so many people indulge in; it's death by a thousand cuts. Further, it is just generally disheartening to know that you're in the minority of being honest about things like this

Shayne

Shayne, underlying your statement here seems to be a belief that "the majority of people are dishonest about things like this" - or maybe dishonest in general, when they can get away with it.

Is my inference correct?

Well, my frame of mind is that I don't want to talk about the idea that people are generally moral when they (for example) are just fine with sending SWAT teams in to hunt for growing plants. People are generally immoral, irrational, and unjust, and that's reflected through our political process in the kinds of things government does.

Shayne

[caroljane]

And this kind of injustice is multiplied thousands of times for all the petty evils so many people indulge in; it's death by a thousand cuts. Further, it is just generally disheartening to know that you're in the minority of being honest about things like this

Shayne

Shayne, underlying your statement here seems to be a belief that "the majority of people are dishonest about things like this" - or maybe dishonest in general, when they can get away with it.

Is my inference correct?

Well, my frame of mind is that I don't want to talk about the idea that people are generally moral when they (for example) are just fine with sending SWAT teams in to hunt for growing plants. People are generally immoral, irrational, and unjust, and that's reflected through our political process in the kinds of things government does.

Shayne

So I guess that's a yes.

[sjw]

So I guess that's a yes.

No, it's not a yes. I'm not saying they won't report when they hit a gate. I'm saying that a good fraction are generally immoral, irrational, vicious on a much larger and more destructive scale such that I don't care whether they report when they hit a gate; they will do much worse on a routine basis e.g. when they go to the voting booth.

Shayne

[caroljane]

So I guess that's a yes.

No, it's not a yes. I'm not saying they won't report when they hit a gate. I'm saying that a good fraction are generally immoral, irrational, vicious on a much larger and more destructive scale such that I don't care whether they report when they hit a gate; they will do much worse on a routine basis e.g. when they go to the voting booth.

Shayne

OK. What I'm asking is,what "good fraction" of people are immoral, irrational and vicious by your standards? 51%?,ie the majority?

[anthony]

I think your rant is probably the tip of the iceberg, and that there are two issues here.

2. I am going to guess that you put too much faith in the Objectivist philosophy. Rand was an unreliable philosopher, and if you trust her too much you will suffer more than you would otherwise. I think you saying "I'm tired of being honest" is a way of saying "my belief system doesn't work." That may very well be the case to a significant extent.

Shayne

Low blow, Shayne.

Especially seeing as you know that the virtue of honesty is for one's own sake - not relevant to others' doings.

You have always struck me as honest, so I find this disingenuous.

But, yes, it's not easy sometimes, and yes, we look around and see others doing as they please with the truth, and yes, occasionally you get hoist on your own truthful petard -by them.

Who said the world is fair?

(Plus, do you know for a fact that Chris considers himself Objectivist, anyway.)

Tony

[sjw]

So I guess that's a yes.

No, it's not a yes. I'm not saying they won't report when they hit a gate. I'm saying that a good fraction are generally immoral, irrational, vicious on a much larger and more destructive scale such that I don't care whether they report when they hit a gate; they will do much worse on a routine basis e.g. when they go to the voting booth.

Shayne

OK. What I'm asking is,what "good fraction" of people are immoral, irrational and vicious by your standards? 51%?,ie the majority?

I haven't gone door to door, I can't give you an exact figure, but here are rough estimates as to our general cultural barbarity at this point in history:

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2010/04/20/legalize-pot-poll-shows-m_n_543952.html

http://articles.sfgate.com/2011-05-28/opinion/29593307_1_scientific-poll-weekly-poll-circumcision

Shayne

[sjw]

Low blow, Shayne.

How so? There's plenty of history of people pointing out that following Objectivism as Rand prescribed is harmful. E.g., Nathaniel Branden.

(Plus, do you know for a fact that Chris considers himself Objectivist, anyway.)

That's what I mean by "guess."

Shayne

[9thdoctor]

At about 2pm yesterday afternoon, I pulled up to the gate in my neighborhood. I got a little too close and waited for the gate to open. Then, for some reason, I just let my foot off the brake. The car went into the gate. The gate opened enough for cars to get through, but was clearly stuck.

Well over 10 years ago I was moving, and used a Uhaul. Coming out of the gate of the new apartment complex, I made the turn too sharp and damaged the gate. My memory is a little foggy, but my car insurance definitely paid for it, and as I recall there wasn’t even a deductible. It was like when you have a broken window on your car, there’s no deductible to get it fixed, the insurance company just takes care of it. It didn’t affect my rates either. I remember being really bummed when it happened but everything worked out. Look into it. But the fact you were driving your own car might make it different for you.

BTW, a practical reason for you to do as you did: if you hadn’t reported it, and there’d been a security camera record of it, things could have turned out much worse.

No offense, but aren't these the kinds of feelings best left unshared?

I recommend that you get yourself a journal, start using it, and keep such thoughts private.

I agree, you don’t want something like this out there on the internet, particularly since CB uses his full name here. Sure it’s an awfully common name, but still you wouldn’t want this coming back to haunt you. In the Casey Anthony case they were able to pull out evidence of Google searches for Chloroform, which was pretty damning stuff (though she’s just been found not guilty).

OTOH, this could work out like Faust summoning Mephistopheles, or whoever it was (Robert Johnson?) selling his soul to the devil at the crossroads, to play guitar better than anyone. Perhaps executive recruiters for Enron Redivivus will be calling CB within the hour, offering a big signing bonus! If so, remember your friends!

[caroljane]

So I guess that's a yes.

No, it's not a yes. I'm not saying they won't report when they hit a gate. I'm saying that a good fraction are generally immoral, irrational, vicious on a much larger and more destructive scale such that I don't care whether they report when they hit a gate; they will do much worse on a routine basis e.g. when they go to the voting booth.

Shayne

OK. What I'm asking is,what "good fraction" of people are immoral, irrational and vicious by your standards? 51%?,ie the majority?

I haven't gone door to door, I can't give you an exact figure, but here are rough estimates as to our general cultural barbarity at this point in history:

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2010/04/20/legalize-pot-poll-shows-m_n_543952.html

http://articles.sfgate.com/2011-05-28/opinion/29593307_1_scientific-poll-weekly-poll-circumcision

Shayne

Shayne, you are being evasive. I am not askiing for statistical evidence of how the world is going to hell in a handbasket. I am asking for your personal, subjective sense of the people you know, know slightly, have heard about...I exclude your family and friends as I am sure they are good people. But "most people" -- is it your impression that there is an Us & Them, the moral, rational and peaceable, and the immoral, irrational and vicious? Your posts have implied that the Them is the majority- I am just asking, is this what you think and is this how you feel?

[sjw]

Shayne, you are being evasive.

No, but you sure are being presumptuous.

Shayne

[caroljane]

Shayne, you are being evasive.

No, but you sure are being presumptuous.

Shayne

With justification. I asked you a conversational question, which you obviously do not want to answer, so as I am interested in the question, I can only presume, assume and speculate on the answer myself.