The Perfect Lilian Rearden, Dead at 79

[Selene]

I can name her children, Liza Todd, Christopher and Michael Wilding Jr., Maria Burton.

Her best film was Giant where I think she gave the best and most of herself,

A WINNER

With Wilding (two sons):

• Michael Howard Wilding (born 1953)
• Christopher Edward Wilding (born 1955)

With Todd (one daughter):

• Elizabeth Frances "Liza" Todd (born 1957)

With Burton (one daughter):

• Maria Burton (born 1961; adopted 1964)

In 1971, Taylor became a grandmother at the age of 39. At the time of her death she was survived by her four children, ten grandchildren, and four great-grandchildren.^[37]

[Xray]

I can name her children, Liza Todd, Christopher and Michael Wilding Jr., Maria Burton.

A WINNER

With Wilding (two sons):

• Michael Howard Wilding (born 1953)
• Christopher Edward Wilding (born 1955)

With Todd (one daughter):

• Elizabeth Frances "Liza" Todd (born 1957)

With Burton (one daughter):

• Maria Burton (born 1961; adopted 1964)

In 1971, Taylor became a grandmother at the age of 39. At the time of her death she was survived by her four children, ten grandchildren, and four great-grandchildren.^[37]

I always had the feeling that Liz, despite all the "diva" image, was a wonderful, warmhearted mother to her children.

Heere is the list of her 8 marriages / 7 husbands (she married Burton twice):

Conrad Hilton, Jr. (1950-1951)

Michael Wilding (1952-1957)

Michael Todd (1957-his death in 1958)

Eddie Fisher (1959-1964)

Richard Burton (1964-1974)

Richard Burton, again (1975-1976)

John Warner (1976-1982)

Larry Fortensky (1991-1996)

Read more: http://wiki.answers.com/Q/Who_were_Liz_Taylor%27s_husbands#ixzz1HbkmwyBQ

Her best film was Giant where I think she gave the best and most of herself

Her performance in Giant was simply wonderful! Liz was totally authentic and very convincing in the role of Leslie. Liz outshone James Dean in that film, who imo was not the perfect cast for the role, especially in the scenes where he had to play Jett as an older man.

The Taming of the Shrew was so lush and pitch-perfect you should watch it in a bubble bath with candles.

Sounds very enticing! I haven't seen that one yet but my husband has, and is as enthusiastic about it as you. Looks like this is a must-see.

Richard Burton is among my favorite actors too. Each time I think of Burton, I also think of his teacher, Phillip Burton, whose surname he adopted as a gesture of gratitude to the man who encouraged him to develop his great potential:

http://www.welshwales.co.uk/burton.htm

The young Richard Jenkins attended school in Port Talbot, a town which was later to spawn another great Welsh actor - Anthony Hopkins. At this time, a teacher named Phillip Burton recognised the youth's potential and spent much time coaching his protege outside schooling hours. He taught young Richard Jenkins to act, and crucially how to use and project his voice. Richard Burton's fine Welsh theatrical voice was to become his most celebrated trademark.

Meanwhile, Phillip Burton's tuition work and patronage was rewarded when Richard won a scholarship to Oxford University at just 16; he adopted his teacher's surname and made his first stage performance at Oxford as an extra scrubbing steps. Burton's extraordinary stage presence - another of his famous trademarks - was said to distract the audience from the Shakespearean play!

Edited March 25, 2011 by Xray

[Xray]

Here's a good one though:

The ending is the best.

What an attack dog Mailer was! The type who enjoys making mincemeat of his opponent.

Who is the lady in the group?

I agree with Jerry Biggers as to Liz not being suitable for the role of Lilian Rearden. But not because Liz would have been "clueless", but because Liz would have been far too sensually attractive for the role, and thus would have been a too strong rival for an actress playing Dagny.

A bit of side by side comparison and I'm not so sure.

The settings resemble each other and it is true that both women have a grudge toward their husbands.

But their "style of attack" is quite different. Martha is more like a steamroller, who, with her tongue loosened after having had a few too many, empties a bucket of insults over her husband.

Lilian, on the contrary, is far more controlled, carefully placing the dagger of sarcasm and contempt she has for Rearden.

Also, one has to to consider their difference of age. Martha is a good deal older that Lilian, so if Taylor had played Lilian at a younger age, the viewers would probably not have been able to take their eyes off her for all that luscious beauty.

Edited March 25, 2011 by Xray

[caroljane]

Classic Cavett. He like Mozart was not the best, he is the only.

Substituting the moon for the sun there made me fall off my two capacious chairs laughing. Thanks, ND.

It was Mailer who got his meat minced on this occasion. Is the lady Lillian Hellman? She was no lady in my opinion. A good writer but a dishonest memoirist.

How about Queen Liz's worst films? Butterfield 8 comes to mind. Miscast and utterly unbelievable as a needy insecure amateur whore.This was a role for Marilyn Monroe.

[caroljane]

Veering offer the topic, why are movies made out of O'Hara's novels so unsatisfactory? Gary Cooper was good in 10 North Frederick, but Paul Newman was wooden in From the Terrace. And Laurence Harvey sneaking around with Liz Taylor and hiding her instead of immediately leaving his wife for her like any man would (and did)? Give me a break.

Appointment in Samarra would make a beautiful small film and the role of Julian English would be a career maker for the right actor. John Agliolaro, are you listening?

[caroljane]

Veering offer the topic, why are movies made out of O'Hara's novels so unsatisfactory? Gary Cooper was good in 10 North Frederick, but Paul Newman was wooden in From the Terrace. And Laurence Harvey sneaking around with Liz Taylor and hiding her instead of immediately leaving his wife for her like any man would (and did)? Give me a break.

Appointment in Samarra would make a beautiful small film and the role of Julian English would be a career maker for the right actor. John Agliolaro, are you listening?

Updike's Rabbit, Run would also be good on film.

[Jerry Biggers]

Sorry, Liz would have been clueless as Lillian Rearden.

But our current Secretary of State might fit the bill rather nicely.

I'm no huge fan, but she did admirably in Suddenly, Last Summer, and from what I have seen of Cat on a Hot Tin Roof, Butterfield 8, and Who's Afraid, she would have been perfect for the part. You'd make a good Balph Eubanks with those quips of yours, but wrong movie.

Liz was too big a star to have accepted a mere supporting role as Lillian Rearden. However, a case could be made that her characterization in Who's Afraid of Virginia Woolf? displayed traits that Lillian would have approved of. Also, Liz's character in Reflections in a Golden Eye illustrates the deviousness that a Lillian would admire.

Thanks for your suggestion of my casting as Balph, but I think the role should rightly go to Leonard. Or maybe Harry B. (I can assure you that, in the extremely unlikely chance that I make it to 2057, I will definitely cast some of the ARIans [actually, their avatars] :wub: in my Virtual Reality remake of Atlas Shrugged ) But not as any of Rand's heroes. That would strain credulity too much.

But, not wishing to turn down such an opportunity, if you have any influence with Aglialoro, if you wish to suggest my name, cool. B) I could use the money. "I'm not cheap,...but I can be had."(Who said that in a movie, by the way?).

My own question here, bothered me! It was Michael Douglas, in Romancing The Stone.

Edited March 25, 2011 by Jerry Biggers

[9thdoctor]

What an attack dog Mailer was! The type who enjoys making mincemeat of his opponent.

Who is the lady in the group?

Janet Flanner, not someone I'm familiar with. There's more context to this clip, and Vidal comes across as a jerk also.

http://www.slate.com/id/2171514/

[Reidy]

Flanner was best known for writing the New Yorker's "Letter from Paris" from the twenties to the sixties.

[kiaer.ts]

What an attack dog Mailer was! The type who enjoys making mincemeat of his opponent.

Who is the lady in the group?

Janet Flanner, not someone I'm familiar with. There's more context to this clip, and Vidal comes across as a jerk also.

http://www.slate.com/id/2171514/

Mailer and Vidal both jerks? Who knew?

[anthony]

The angry young man became a grumpy old man, but he could see, and think, and write:

And so I still feel rage at the cowardice of our time which has ground down all of us into the mediocre compromises of what had what had once been our light-filled passion to stand erect and be original.

The shits are killing us, even as they kill themselves - each day a few more lies eat into the seed with which we are born, little institutional lies from the print of the newspapers, the shock waves of TV, and the sentimental cheats of the movie screen.

Little lies, but they pipe us toward insanity as they starve our sense of the real. We have grown up in a world more in decay than the worst of the Roman Empire, a cowardly world chasing after a good time (of which one can approve), but chasing it without the courage to pay the hard price of full consciousness, and so losing pleasure in pips and squeaks of anxiety.

Norman Mailer 1959

[caroljane]

I can name her children, Liza Todd, Christopher and Michael Wilding Jr., Maria Burton.

A WINNER

With Wilding (two sons):

• Michael Howard Wilding (born 1953)
• Christopher Edward Wilding (born 1955)

With Todd (one daughter):

• Elizabeth Frances "Liza" Todd (born 1957)

With Burton (one daughter):

• Maria Burton (born 1961; adopted 1964)

In 1971, Taylor became a grandmother at the age of 39. At the time of her death she was survived by her four children, ten grandchildren, and four great-grandchildren.^[37]

I always had the feeling that Liz, despite all the "diva" image, was a wonderful, warmhearted mother to her children.

Heere is the list of her 8 marriages / 7 husbands (she married Burton twice):

Conrad Hilton, Jr. (1950-1951)

Michael Wilding (1952-1957)

Michael Todd (1957-his death in 1958)

Eddie Fisher (1959-1964)

Richard Burton (1964-1974)

Richard Burton, again (1975-1976)

John Warner (1976-1982)

Larry Fortensky (1991-1996)

Read more: http://wiki.answers.com/Q/Who_were_Liz_Taylor%27s_husbands#ixzz1HbkmwyBQ

Her best film was Giant where I think she gave the best and most of herself

Her performance in Giant was simply wonderful! Liz was totally authentic and very convincing in the role of Leslie. Liz outshone James Dean in that film, who imo was not the perfect cast for the role, especially in the scenes where he had to play Jett as an older man.

The Taming of the Shrew was so lush and pitch-perfect you should watch it in a bubble bath with candles.

Sounds very enticing! I haven't seen that one yet but my husband has, and is as enthusiastic about it as you. Looks like this is a must-see.

Richard Burton is among my favorite actors too. Each time I think of Burton, I also think of his teacher, Phillip Burton, whose surname he adopted as a gesture of gratitude to the man who encouraged him to develop his great potential:

http://www.welshwales.co.uk/burton.htm

The young Richard Jenkins attended school in Port Talbot, a town which was later to spawn another great Welsh actor - Anthony Hopkins. At this time, a teacher named Phillip Burton recognised the youth's potential and spent much time coaching his protege outside schooling hours. He taught young Richard Jenkins to act, and crucially how to use and project his voice. Richard Burton's fine Welsh theatrical voice was to become his most celebrated trademark.

Meanwhile, Phillip Burton's tuition work and patronage was rewarded when Richard won a scholarship to Oxford University at just 16; he adopted his teacher's surname and made his first stage performance at Oxford as an extra scrubbing steps. Burton's extraordinary stage presence - another of his famous trademarks - was said to distract the audience from the Shakespearean play!

[caroljane]

Sorry for repeating the previous, I can't seem to get the edit to stick.

Xray, do not delay in watching the Shrew. It would be a feast just for the gorgeous Zefferelli staging alone, but here we have Richard and Elizabeth in roles they were born to play. When she scolds the other wives to be more dutiful at the end, she is gloriously indomitable in her magnificent submission.

Get your husband to join you in the bubble bath and make a night of it!

[9thdoctor]

Mailer and Vidal both jerks? Who knew?

If you're charging me with belaboring the obvious I suppose I must plead nolo contendere.

[caroljane]

Mailer and Vidal both jerks? Who knew?

If you're charging me with belaboring the obvious I suppose I must plead nolo contendere.

They don't make jerks like they used to.

Can you think of any contemporary public slagfests between novelists now that would attract national attention? At least Gore and Normie had a couple of brain cells between them.

[9thdoctor]

They don't make jerks like they used to.

Can you think of any contemporary public slagfests between novelists now that would attract national attention? At least Gore and Normie had a couple of brain cells between them.

http://www.rjgeib.com/thoughts/burning/le-carre-vs-rushdie.html

[caroljane]

They don't make jerks like they used to.

Can you think of any contemporary public slagfests between novelists now that would attract national attention? At least Gore and Normie had a couple of brain cells between them.

http://www.rjgeib.com/thoughts/burning/le-carre-vs-rushdie.html

Fabulous, thanks Ninth.

I had forgotten the Brits. Martin Amis and his teeth.. Chris and Marty against the world...

I think I'm on Team LeCarre for this one, just because I like his books better than Rushdie's and I don't like the way Sal and Hitch are double teaming. And maybe I am oversensitive to the appellation of dunce , though I would be glad to share LeCarre's dunce cap, before the fact as it were.

[caroljane]

I should add that I have never read any of Martin Amis's books though I have often been urged to. I only know him as a literary celebrity. He wasn't even part of the Rushdie=LeCarre spat...sort of like Phil here on OL, he gets mentioned anyway, whatever is being talked about.

I did read most of Kingsley Amis, he was excellent, but not nearly as good as his ex-wife and Martin's ex-stepmother, Elizabeth Jane Howard.

[kiaer.ts]

http://www.aj.cz/celeb/sm3/sm3.htm

[Dennis Hardin]

But when she turned full face, people experienced a small shock of disappointment. Her face was not beautiful. The eyes were the flaw: they were vaguely pale, neither quite gray nor brown, lifelessly empty of expression…

(description of Lillian Rearden in AS)

No. Sorry. Her eyes are all wrong.

A remembrance by Hollywood Reporter film critic Todd McCarthy recalled a meeting in the 1970s, when the actress had essentially retired from the big screen. "What should abruptly stop me in my tracks," he wrote, "but a pair of eyes unlike I've ever beheld, before or since; deep violet eyes of a sort withheld from ordinary mortals that were suddenly looking up into mine from mere inches away."

[kiaer.ts]

But when she turned full face, people experienced a small shock of disappointment. Her face was not beautiful. The eyes were the flaw: they were vaguely pale, neither quite gray nor brown, lifelessly empty of expression…

(description of Lillian Rearden in AS)

No. Sorry. Her eyes are all wrong.

A remembrance by Hollywood Reporter film critic Todd McCarthy recalled a meeting in the 1970s, when the actress had essentially retired from the big screen. "What should abruptly stop me in my tracks," he wrote, "but a pair of eyes unlike I've ever beheld, before or since; deep violet eyes of a sort withheld from ordinary mortals that were suddenly looking up into mine from mere inches away."

Yes, that was the problem with Gary Cooper as Roark, his not having orange hair.

Taylor would have made a good Dominique as well.

[Xray]

Get your husband to join you in the bubble bath and make a night of it!

Problem is: our bathtub is a tad too small (to put it mildly!). Actually it's the very opposite of the jacuzzi type posh things they always show in the movies!

Xray, do not delay in watching the Shrew. It would be a feast just for the gorgeous Zefferelli staging alone, but here we have Richard and Elizabeth in roles they were born to play.

I too love those gorgeous Zeffirelli stagings! His Romeo and Juliet was the first film my parents allowed me to see downtown alone in the movie theater, and from then on I was hooked when it came to Zeffirelli's creating opulent staging and ability to capture the atmosphere of a story.

No. Sorry. Her eyes are all wrong.

ITA. Taylor's eyes are exceptionally beautiful, a complete contrast to how Lilian's eyes are described in AS.

Yes, that was the problem with Gary Cooper as Roark, his not having orange hair.

Couldn't they at least have dyed Gary Cooper's hair in flaming orange for the role of Roark?

Just kidding, imagine how Cooper would have looked like then.

(But TF was in black and white anyway I suppose).

Edited March 26, 2011 by Xray

[kiaer.ts]

My dad insists Shrew is Taylor's best movie, but I have never been able to get more than 10 minutes into it.

As for Romeo & Juliet, we watched the Zeferelli version repeatedly in high school. But I never enjoyed it until I watched the 1996 version with Claire Danes and Leonardo DiCaprio.

[caroljane]

My dad insists Shrew is Taylor's best movie, but I have never been able to get more than 10 minutes into it.

As for Romeo & Juliet, we watched the Zeferelli version repeatedly in high school. But I never enjoyed it until I watched the 1996 version with Claire Danes and Leonardo DiCaprio.

Has there been any other onscreen Shakespeare that you liked?

I loved Branagh's Henry V. I had to drag my husband to see it, because though a history buff he hated English kings as only a Scotsman can. But we went to see it two more times, at his suggestion!, and bought the video for each other.

[kiaer.ts]

I don't particularly care for - no - I can't stand Branagh. But his Hamlet was outstanding. First rate.

I am also a huge fan of:

Richard III w/ Ian McKellen

Richard II w/ Fiona Shaw (I have a copy, and would upload it to YouTube if I knew how.)

King Lear w/ Laurence Olivier

King Lear w/ James Earl Jones

MacBeth Roman Polanski

Titus w/ Anthony Hopkins

I vacillate between King Lear and Richard II as my favorite play.